I have posted this on GitHub but wanted to know if anyone else likes the idea https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues/529

I have been thinking about this for a while but have not posted until now, I see movement on Bug Fixing and did not want to take anything away from that.

So now things are moving again I would like to pass this idea around, the biggest part of GG is its assets we have GB's of them would it be possible to split out all the assets into another GG app 'GG Asset Manager' so that all DLC's/Store purchases are controlled/maintained by this app rather than the GG editor (not sure how much code or overhead is required by GG to manage assets but this could be freed up).

With Asset Manager (AM) we could have things like a search field, we could have an FPE checker to highlight FPE's that could be incorrect, a thumbnail manager etc could even have a 3D interactive/preview of the asset using webGL or directx viewer.

the interface could be made simple i.e right click on an asset and choose 'Add to GG Editor' or 'Remove from GG Editor' this will then give us a very clean editor library with only the things we need in it AM could even have a 'Genre' filter the markers and other stuff could be left in the editor.

I am not really a coder I would have ago at doing this myself I could design an interface but that is as far as my skill set.

What do you guys think is this viable/doable pros/cons ?

It certainly would be a plus if files are scanned and possible problems noticed like the FPE or maybe even the Xfile which might also unwantedly add textures.

But how would that go with creating a stand alone, would this not be a problem if the assets are stored in a different way?

not really like I said only the assets being used would be IN GG so creating a stand alone would not be affected and nothing else would be in the stand alone

I just want to be sure that I understand this "asset managment tool".
You want to exclude all entities from GG and do them in a separate folder outside of GG.
Then we have a third party application which hast one list for each project which files he need to sync over to GG?

This third party tool has a search engine, Preview and some other shiny features which could be added later.

I know a big problem:
Multi textured objects. How the asset manager knows the texture sets?

not that complicated the separate app could use API calls to GG editor so in theory the code that currently deals with assets in GG stripped out into another App then API's setup so that we either drag and drop from AM to GG or right click and vice versa to remove them from the current project you are working on .

the current level you are working on could have 'pointers' to the asset so when you create a standalone all files are copied that are required including multi textures.

so in theory you start GG with a blank template and only add the assets you want in your level instead of trawling through the asset list you would have a manager that allows you to create library's by genre etc GG already handles multi texture so I don't see that as a problem especially if an FPE/BMP editor was part of AM

BOTR apps can talk to gg so I know it is possible in some way I think he has an idea about a new GUI too so AM could have a GUI like AGK-S

the assets are one of GG biggest selling points I think it is time to give them some TLC they are starting to become un manageable on my system I am sure its the same for others, even if I remove them from GG if there is and update or I have to verify they are all back again and I cannot tell GG to store them on another drive.

maybe something like this idea https://www.designconnected.com/connecter/?fbclid=IwAR2AB7_V1loheDXAjjArmjizKEEzSHL__G5Nqha6jyRV80ROJ_HgDtG4TNM

The GG Editor has an API ?

To maximise the usefulness of this app, the fpe files of every asset would need to contain tags, keywords, or some form of searchable metadata that your app could use to find similar assets. At the moment, we're all using explorer to search for entity names (e.g. "chair", "torch", "soldier"), sometimes relying on the 64x64 .bmp previews to get a sense of what the asset is. If the fpe file contained metadata tags like "chair", "wooden", "antique", "ornate" etc. it would allow an asset with a relatively generic name like 'wood chair' to show up in searches for "historic", "wooden", "antique" and "ornate".

Selecting the asset could copy it to a new folder associated with the .fpm file, meaning you could make changes to how your asset appears in one level without it effecting the original.

It would be a big job to update all the fpe files with metadata, but certainly less time than converting them to PBR (which pretty much all of them will have to be at some point I guess!).

AE

Cool idea ,it would be good to have it open in another monitor and drag and drop models into GG if that could be possible .

Dave

this looks interesting and I will probably need to reread through it again just make sure I'm understanding correctly.
FPE checking is easy enough but would need some input as to what should be checked/cross checked (textures are always a pain) and searching for entities is a real must still. I'm currently looking into the IMGUI code , which is what AGK-S uses, and seems pretty easy to implement / use. So there's hope for adding input UI for X/Y/Z pos/rot coords of entities plus search edit boxes etc.
Now with multi-textures, this is easy. I've got code functions already in my tool apps that can read each objects textures so this is not a problem to make a list of all the textures used for a given object file , whether that be a DBO/X/OBJ file (and I think I can also read in FBX relatively easy, been a while though) and output preview thumbnails.

Actually, following the rather fruitful discussion with Danny ove his tool last year, I have something up and running which in effect does what Graphix is thinking off, largely ( foregoing the download part; just when I concerned myself with that, I saw that the shop guys banned another guy for accessing the shop by program), only, due to the lack of an GG editor API, I'm unable to actually get things into the editor workspace, even not with AutoIT, which usually can handle things like that easily.


Not ALL of us ; ) on the other hand, I'm not using GG anymore, seeing the state it is in.


There are better concepts than using the original .fpe... think about it.
If you really want to do something like that, use a separate file, say, ".fpc", with "c" for "custom", but, again, there are better concepts than that.


You're on the right track


Yessir, and that is what guys like Belidos don't understand. And the worst fact about is it's "every man for himself", together with his trusty text editor. How many are going to put up with this enormous task ? Even if one did it and shared his attributed .fpes, few others would use it, because they would like their own attributes (let alone that I doubt that there are so many who actually have ALL the assets).

Additionally, as far as I know, Lee doesn't like to distribute functionality over several programs, but wants it all to be in the GG program, so, don't expect him to support such ideas and apps. A clean API to get things into GG to just compile them there would also allow external, more powerful editors - probably more than one, serving differing requirements - and other things to be developed - but we won't be getting it, alas.

I must caveat that I'm no programmer (I just tinker in LUA a bit), I just figured it might be a cleaner and easier way to do it that way. Why would you create an entirely separate file just containing metadata when the average PBR asset is already made up of 8 different files (.x or .dbo model, .fpe file, .bmp preview, 5 x textures maps) already?


Why single out Belidos ? Dude's not even posted in this thread...


Because that approach of piling it all into the editor has worked out so well thus far It wasn't always this way; FPSC users may remember the FPS Creator Segment Editor, a separate program Lee wrote to handle the complicated process of building room segments in a user-friendly and GUI way. Loved that little program (even though most of the download was a multi-part video tutorial series to accompany it). Besides, most of us are already using third party apps to bridge the gap in functionalities of GG proper; StyleGuru, ReShade, GGLoader, AutoWelder etc.

AE

Morning
As far as asset control we already have a file the controls every aspect of a model, the FPE file this file is all the program needs to read in to gain access to the assets attributes, yes a 'tag' system would be ideal but has pointed out this would need to be a 'fixed' system and only certain tags allowed to stop the 'everyman for himself' ideology,
I think ideally we would have to stick to 3 or 4 tags
TAG1 = 'item name'
TAG2 = 'item type'
TAG3 = 'item genre's
TAG4 = 'artist info'

What would be good is if there was a freeform metadata option that could be edited added to by the user to allow custom search this combined with fixed tags would make it more ' standarized' and not get things out of line.

I would prefer it to be an 'endorsed' TGC app d this would then allow store downloads and asset updates on the fly but the asset updates is another problem, for example if you have spent hours changing a texture and modifying an asset for your own level you then have to create another folder and copy the asset in effect doubling the storage space I think it would be easier if we can 'lock' an asset so when the updater sees the 'lock' tag or option it skips updating that asset if you turn the lock option off for any reason and check for updates it should then update.

I see from this thread that it as created some interest.

@BOTR if you would like too have a chat or have any questions please get in touch with me, your work is awesome and I think you could make a brilliant job with this

You want this tool to replace the existing model editor?

For me the current editor is good as it is, all the models are arranged in folders with the name of the artist in the 'purchased' folder and of course the official TGC dlc.
Personally i think it would be great if an FPE editor is added to the widget with all the settings and brief instructions of those functions.
This will eliminate the need to go through the folder directories in order to alter files.
A similar approach could be done for the .ini, settings.fx and shader options so that everything is accessable within GG itself.
Going this route would make it all a lot easier and more accessible for the user who is currently unaware of these options because they are somewhat hidden.

No not at all this is just a tool to help users housekeep/arrange thier assets store them away from GG. I have a dedicated 1tb SSD in my system for assets with a 64 bit manager organising and indexing them it would be awesome I have all of GG assets plus about 230gb of my own work but I also have them in entity bank too so right away my system has double the content which is a waste of system resources, I am no expert but I am sure gg editor would run a lot quicker without all the assets being loaded

@ GraPhiX
Do you plan to provide the application with an advanced search with many search filters?

Another thing that I do not have very clear, at least in my case almost all custom items are not categorized as it happens with the stock items, ie the buildings are inside a folder called buildings, the characters are inside a folder called characters and in turn subfolders called fantasy, medieval etc
How do you plan to categorize the custom items we already has?
And another thing, would not it be better to work with databases, an app connected with, and then create queries?

I'm going to link some tools I did times ago, these tools are 100% useless today since obviously this is not fpsc but GG, and on the other hand the system of handle items in the store has evolved a lot therefore it is now very easy to upload items to the store. But maybe I can give an idea or maybe not.

List the IDs/Names of entities through an Excel macro

Attention store seller, a new tool named "GSR" comes for help us

@3com Lol I wish I could code I would do it in a heartbeat I have web application experience I have built a file manager that is used daily that as a SQL backend also I created a 3d viewer app on my own website https://www.graphix.org.uk but as far as C I am useless maybe .net I could do I made my variation generator in .net and visual studio but I think some thing like this is best done by the expert coders we already have on the forums there are some very talented people here and I for one applaud thier skills

Wow, that is quite a lot.

While upgrading my system i've gone for two ssd drives of 500 gb and D is used for steam and games/software.
A clean install with all assets, DLC and purchased store items is currently 36 gb.
Enough room left for AGK studio which i'm going to purchase when it is released.

Why would you create an entirely separate file just containing metadata [/quote]
1. Then one more won't make that much of a difference.
2. Because the fpe comes down with every update to the model, thus, it'll overwrite what you might have written in the fpe. AND I just stated that IF you want to text-edit a file, better not do that in a file that might get overwritten at any given moment.

Please tell that to Lee, not to ME.

@ GraPhiX
Nice site.

Thank You, im still adding models to it



this is why I asked for a 'lock' so that if the state of the asset is locked it will not be overwritten could just be a option in the FPE or a tick box in AM.

I have copies of copies all over the place my entitybank as been trimmed right back and is still 47.4gb my asset folder is 228.6gb
I really need to have some kind of asset manager would be great if we had one that worked with GG if not I will look at a third party one and suck up the duplications

Horses for courses. I have a lot of duplicated media. Some is just down to getting the same assets over and over in different packs. Some is due to me copying assets into a new folder to make them immune to updates. I'd sure like a program that could remove unnecessary media, but what is unnecessary media? Difficult for a program to manage that without a fair bit of guidance from the user...

I think all GG needs to make things easier, is a built in search facility. I'm not sure how a separate program would help. I can search using windows for instance if I really have to, but no-one wants that. They want to search in GG to find relevant stuff.

My GG folder is gigantic as well. I'd love to trim it. Doing so would likely break something somewhere If you do not care about past projects or were new, then this would be a good way to trim media down to the minimum, but otherwise would probably just cause broken projects.

Other game engines just copy media into a project folder, which makes things easier, but way more bloaty overall. Easier to remove down the line though and much easier for testing purposes. Ever had a project with a weird bug and the response is, send it over and I will look it over? That's a lot harder to do than it sounds with anything other than a very small project!

The way GG handles media at present is really good for preserving HDD space overall. Moving to a project based asset collection would mean a massive increase to each projects size. If you have a lot of projects, then the HDD space needed would be way higher. I'm not sure which I prefer. The upside of a project based system would be you can delete it without any worries beyond killing that specific project. The downside is, any updates to media may not update in your individual project. This could be good or bad dependant

I'm pretty sure Lee has discussed this in the past and has it on his potential updates list. Along with a new GUI, I believe. That was ages ago though and priorities change.

Consider me not sure Sounds great in theory, but reality will probably make such a program nowhere near as useful as it sounds. Any Gold pledge people will have a lot of duplicated media by now A program of this nature would work, IF the user is prepared to mark unneeded files after a scan, or un-check items if they are needed. Even then, prepare yourself for broken projects. I wouldn't even like to think how long the list would be on my system.


True, although they are not really loaded when you boot GG they are just listed as far as I know(still uses some memory that could be better used though). Perhaps a more modern way to load models into GG would be to just use a windows browser rather than it's current approach? Probably a far bigger change than most would think, but would be much better imo.

There is my wall of text no-one will ever read I apologise in advance for my overly verbose reply. I need to brush up on short and snappy!

Hey all
Not keen on this myself, be ok if the GG default way stays, and the external one is an option.

Never used any external app when working with GG other than modelling\texture stuff.

Also have never used explorer to search for items, the GG way works ok for me, but that is likely because of making my own media which allows for my own naming system, and of course just knowing where it is to be found.

I definately prefer programs that are self contained. That way if something is broken, you are not relying on a third party to fix any issues.

I think the editor is functional, but needs updating. Everything should be editable within the editor, including the FPE, Setup\Settings files, and the TAB TAB setting so you can set things up before test-game and then fine tune in test-game. It would be cool if all these settings were level specific.

Also all tabs should be able to be windowed and place anywhere you want, including other monitors - think Gimp, substance painter.

Reliquia....

Jus a quick view from a back burner guy. Surely there are more pressing matters than a form of library go get system?

there are heaps to sort still with basics.
There are more things like updating the swimming. You can't swim without drowning at same time.
A fatigue system for swimming running etc be a handy game mechanic and with possible gains etc. Oxygen also and so you have health oxygen fatigue and
a system that was promised as a gold backer magic system.


The script adaptive flow chart is worth it's weight in gold as in chain basics to make complex ai in a drag n drop way

These are jus a few things I could think that would be in only my eyes more productive than a search system that I agree can be a pain when you try to remember where that item is but usually it's not too much of a problem as someone else said horses for courses

Yes there will always be more pressing matters everybody has thier own priorities. If you read from the very beginning this is just an idea I had a feature request I was not asking for all things to stop I just wondered if anyone else would like the idea after all that is all it is is an idea.
90 percent of my GG time now is building assets before this I had a few tries at making levels and came to the conclusion I am not a level designer but models I can make so as an artist I am looking how I can make my job/ hobby easier to manage and to help users organise thier assets into something they can use easily and without drudging through GB's of models to find the one that would fit in thier game.
A lot of people design thier levels by what assets they have and build a level around them, some have an idea and start with a terrain sculpting into something then adding assets others will design something on paper then look for assets then design a scene but they all have one thing in common assets! No matter what idea you have the most integral part are the assets you own I just thought having an app to manage and organise would make life a little easier.

Again this was just a personal preference and something I have been mulling over for a few months. I have all the DLC's but because I worked on some of them I have at least three versions of each I am lucky enough to have access to unlimited storage and have various NAS boxes and Blade servers at my disposal but just though the average user would benefit from an Asset Manager system.

Hey graphix no stress from me I understand your view also and not intending an assault on your idea. Its good to chat and talk and throw ideas out there and I totally understand your angle. I dabble with models not to your extent and I must say I like your designs. I was jus thinking from an engine perspective that a full working engine would benefit all and yours will too but I think they need to sort the world out first but i was not in anyway saying your idea was not important I say it with the upmost respect

Sb

Well I would fully support this app, and the philosophy of a central assetbank with all the original models, textures and fpes from which assets are then duplicated into project folders on a per project basis (note, per project, not necessarily per level). The current Game Guru system is a bit naff; it's difficult for a developer to find particular assets without either using explorer or having a mental map of the filing structure. For example, how am I supposed to know the folder 'Mega Pack 02' contains a folder called 'Scenery' (several other packs also have a scenery folder) and within that folder there is a candlestick assets? Is a candlestick classed as scenery? Surely that's trees, rocks, low poly background buildings etc. Why aren't all medieval items stored in a medieval folder? (obviously I know why, they all come from different legacy packs from different authors, but I'm saying why from a developer's perspective can't we put similar types of assets together?)

OK, so I've found the candlestick I was looking for. I've made my game. Even though the assets are encrypted, the file structure isn't, so any users poking around trying to find out how the game was made get greeted by a terribly amateurish file structure. "What does Mega Pack 02 even mean?" they'll think. Purchased items are literally placed in a folder called 'Purchased'. It's like running a restaurant where not only does the menu consist of supermarket ready meals, but you then tell the customer on the menu which supermarket you bought them from. Very amateurish and totally unnecessary.

Let's have a centralised assetbank that can be updated as and when, where everything is tagged up with metadata like name, genre, two or three descriptive tags, whether it's PBR or not, low-poly or not, maybe the author, and then have GraPhix's app copy these files into a project folders. Yes it will take up more storage space but, come on, we live in a world where hard drive storage space currently costs about 2 cents per gigabyte - if you can afford to purchase assets on the store, you can afford to buy the additional storage space to keep several copies of them.

AE

Does GG have a full complement of commands using one of the Lua versions?

How do you mean? GG uses Lua 5.2 if that answers your question, as to 'full complement of commands' you will find everything covered by the reference manual is present. More importantly for a game engine is all the GG Lua commands as they are what give you access to the functionailty of the engine itself and there are hundreds of them to play with!

I have just renewed my Microsoft Subs and downloaded VS2019 I wont be around much going to learn a bit of programming if ya need me just PM me will drop in now and again see ya soon

IMGUI files now implemented into GG and compiles ok. now the fun begins with adding some UI features to widgets / entities etc.

Can you upload it, so I can look at it Own repo or branch?

@AmenMoses: Yup that answers my question. Thanks for taking my question somewhat seriously. I used to be like AE and write out a full dissertation when I asked or explained anything. I can't seem to whittle it down for it to make sense. Also, when I write volumes, it is not really read nor understood so I guess less is a better way to be misunderstood. BTW, there is a reason why I asked but I can't reveal it now.

Don't you go messin with my Lua bro!

LOL it was just an idea I am not a coder I dabble but not a real coder I have installed VS2019 enterprise and now getting familiar with it not sure I am capable of doing this but I need something so going to give it a go, on the bright side I have already managed to create an FPE editor 'go me' LMAO

@Bored of the Rings

Can you upload it, so I can look at it Own repo or branch?

@GraPhiX sry. I mean Bored of the Rings

@Corno_1 LOL oh ok

might not seem like a great start but to me I am chuffed I have managed to create an FPE editor it can open, edit and save (also create backups if need be of any edited FPE).

I want to setup various templates to allow a user to pick specific values for each FPE statement with explanations of what the command actually does, so instead of typing a user can choose from dropdown boxes (with overtype as an option).

I know some of the FPE statements but not all can someone please add/amend to this list anything I have missed?
I am positive I have missed items out



thank you to anyone that can help

@GraPhix: here is a link to FPE params that Pyrate Myke added some time ago:
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/214389#msg2538686

There are a few that are legacy's from the old FPI of FPSC days and not used ( i think the spawn ones are old fpsc spawning states), but here are some of the ones i do know.

transparency = TRANSPARENCY LEVELS (0 = NONE 1 =? 2 =? 3 =? 4 =? 5 =? 6 =? 7 =? 8 =? 9 =?)

1. Phase 1, no alpha
2. Phase 2, alpha
5. Water

cantakeweapon = 0 ???

0 the character will not drop it's weapon to be picked up on death, 1 the character will drop weapons to be picked up on death.
(if you don't already have the weapon you will receive the weapon and some ammo when picked up, if you already have the weapon you will receive ammo)

cullmode = 0 ???

0 the engine will only render textures on one side of a face, 1 the engine will render the texture on both sides of the face, this is used if you want to use a single plane in your entity and still have it textured on both sides.

collisionmode = COLLISION BOX (0 =? 1 =? 2 =? 3 =? 4 =? 5 =? 6 =? 7 =? 8 =? 9 =?)

0 cube, 1 polygon, 2 sphere, 3 cylinder, 9 convex hull reduction, 11 none, 12 none but can be intersected (for when it's shot at), the rest i don't know.

If i remember right "isobjective = 0 " works with the entity and the objective markers, not sure how though, i assume 0 is not an objective, and 1 is an objective. Though why you would need to differentiate anyway i have no idea, all this would do is make some entities work with objective markers and some not work, sounds like a nightmare to me.

@BOTR - yeah I have seen that but I don't know if they are still applicable and what the values mean for all of them

@Belidos thank you yes I know their are legacy ones but again I don't know which lol hence why I would like to make this editor complete with explanations on what each command does, the lack of information only proves we need something like this
the hard part is getting the right info, I am quite pleased of my progress and think just this part of the app would be of great use if I can find the correct information

it will allow a standard formatted FPE with metadata

ok, luckily I am in the source code at the moment, I'll do a seach on FPE related parameters see which ones are still valid and which ones aren't. Lee will know which ones aren't valid I would assume as it's his baby.

Thanks Mike I really don't want to bother Lee with this I would rather he carry on with bug fixes I maybe out of my depth but I am having fun lol I like a challenge

@GraPhix-I will help where I can. For characters, what I will do is import/export a character and see what default fpe gets generated as I would expect the params in the generated FPE to be valid. might be a place to start.

Ohh yes, the fact that even so many long time members are in the dark about these commands shows that the app you are creating is going to be usefull and valuable.
In the docs folder there is also some info on collision shapes, however i do not know if that information is correct because according to Stab in the dark there is no convex hull.

can anyone explain castshadow = 0 ?
does this mean cast shadows or don't cast shadows i.e is 0 off and 1 on or vice versa LOL

yeah, so castshadow is a boolean toggle, 0=No, 1=Yes /.

[update-sorry, its actually -1 and 0 ]

-1 is no shadows. 0 is cast shadows (default)

Cheers.

Ooh, battle of the GameGuru Masters!

-1 is no shadow

I stand corrected, yes of course you are both right, oops