Product Chat / Gameguru X11 Public Preview Lightmapper Test

Author
Message
Bugsy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: Savannah
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 03:28
In the past months since the X11 bomb was dropped on us, I have heard a lot of commentary about the lightmapper. I have seen some people say it works, I have seen other say it does not. What I really haven't seen is anyone actually using it

SO! I've decided to do a small stress test of GG x11's lightmapping capabilities in comparison to X9's to see if it is on the right track, or if it has actually been ruined like my last test several months ago led me to conclude.

in order to make things simple, ive used a fresh install of GG x11 with no custom media used. I've created PBR materials for the light, and used the pbr materials that come with the ground slab. I have done a test before, but as that did not use stock media, I dont think its results will be considered at all



THE GOOD: as evidenced by this image:
the gameguru X11 lightmapper isnt totally broken! this image uses 8 static lights, and 6 dynamic lights. each light has a static light, plus a dynamic light on every wall light for specular reflections on the ground. as you can see, the lighting bake (kind of) worked! I also like how we can use PNG textures now! hooray for small victories.

I will now note some things that had me a little worried

1. it took noticably longer than X9 to do/load anything
2. the lightmapper didn't show the level grid being lightmapped as it used to, rather just grey background now
3. the lights render slightly differently now, but still look generally ok when settings are played with.
4. the test game loadscreen takes like a whole minute to load now. it just maximized my map editor and i was getting worried for a minute till it finally started loading the testgame. might just be a first-install thing.

here's another pic

as u can see here, the transparent objects cast nice "transparent object shadows" which is excellent! I also like how you can see static lights in the editor now, not to mention how the HDR effect which tries to always have a more complete colour range onscreen works great! however there are some issues you can see, which brings me to

The BAD
1. look close at the pic here and you'll notice that the glass object culls another of the same objects when viewed at an angle behind the glass. this is not a lighting problem but it is a bug with stock media. Lee pls fix.

2. custom cubemaps don't seem to work at all. I replaced the lack of existing cubemap here with a custom one I created. It did not show up. this maybe because I made it a PNG because the glass thing uses png textures, but i'm not sure. someone please confirm this? either way, lee pls fix

3. exposure is by default completely destroyed and all objects are lit to VERY different extremes. the sun seems to shine through surfaces, artificially brightening the floor quite a lot and casting shadows from the overhead lights. I had to strongly adjust the settings in this room to make everything not white.

4. I don't know what surface sun factor does anymore, but im pretty sure it's not what it's supposed to do...

and lastly, THE UGLY:


specular reflections from dynamic lights, which worked in x9, is completely absent here, and it shows. dynamic lights basically work like static ones without shadows now. they used to be much less bright, and cause specular emission which could be used to "fake" reflections. if custom cubemaps worked that wouldn't be SUCH a big deal, but as i cannot seem to make them work, it remains a problem that this cool functionality has been removed.

In conclusion, while the x11 lightmapper is not totally broken, it's only working about 2/3 as well as it used to in, you guessed it, X9 5/12 gameguru. I hope this changes.

if anyone has something else they'd like me to test, let me know. if anyone knows why my cubemap might not be working, please let me know! if cubemaps are required to be .dds then that should be evidenced.



Pirate Myke
Forum Support
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2010
Location: El Dorado, California
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 03:49 Edited at: 15th Sep 2018 06:14
Very nice post. Thank you.

I will re visit some of these issues and report back.
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz, 2400 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s), 8gb RAM, Nvidia gtx660, Windows 7 Pro 64bit, Screen resolution 1680 x 1050.

GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 08:34
Hi Bugsy, nice work

Quote: "1. look close at the pic here and you'll notice that the glass object culls another of the same objects when viewed at an angle behind the glass. this is not a lighting problem but it is a bug with stock media. Lee pls fix."


I created that Glass Barrier a few months ago before we knew what the PBR workflow was I will re do it now and use DDS textures it may make a difference, that model you have there was just a 'glass' test, transparency was very difficult to implement in a single model but I did manage it and released the model to TGC for demo purposes.


Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 13:50
I have re done the Glass Barrier following the current workflow and using DDS textures, the results were not what I expected culling of the glass works walking one way but not the other, also light mapping still rotates entities (I reported this a while ago on GitHub with reference to my lights rotating when light mapped) I thought it had been fixed to test with any object place on map and rotate the object once or twice, if I don't rotate the object after placement it light maps fine.

Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
Bugsy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: Savannah
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 15:29 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2018 16:08
so are we saying that's a PNG textures problem causing the culling and lack of cubemap? it seems ur cubemap there is different than mine.

EDIT:
confirmed. PNG cubemaps doesnt work.
Bugsy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: Savannah
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 16:09
the object is stock media, it shouldn't be having the problem or need to be modified. I also don't use blender but rather 3ds max.

also, where are these great showcases of gameguru DX11 static lighting I been missing? I troll through the WIP forum almost daily.
GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 16:15
Quote: "When making a model with glass make the glass part of the model last and separate it from the main model, I'm not sure how to do it in other software but with Blender make the model then make the glass last, select all the glass parts and press P to separate it from the main model, in edit mode press A twice to select both parts of the model then save"


Hi Bod yes this method is how I do my glass, but something has changed I have fixed the culling again what I had to do was make sure my alpha does not drop below 171 if it does it culls, video incoming …….
Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 16:17
@Bugsy yes it is stock media but I made it so I have fixed the culling and will upload the new asset, there is till a problem with light mapping if you rotate an entity from its default drop position, that's not my fault I don't think lol
Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
Bugsy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: Savannah
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 16:25
Bod wrote: "My WIP is lightmapped."


sweet i mustve missed it!
Bugsy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: Savannah
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 16:26
@graphix
have u tried resetlimbmatrix in the fpe?
GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 16:27
here is the video finally...
Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 3rd Sep 2018 16:48 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2018 17:55
will post my findings on GitHub

Posted https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues/364
Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
Preben
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2004
Location:
Posted: 4th Sep 2018 08:32
Bugsy:

The DirectX cubemaps format is not supported by the png format , so your cubemaps must be in dds.

You "fake" specular reflection still work , but remember this is now PBR so you define how each material reflect light , you use the "gloss" texture to do this , if you have a black gloss you will have no specular reflection , if you set it around 128,128,128 you will have a specular reflection that nearly looks like the old , and yes i did extent the range of the specular reflection so you can have a dynamic light with a short range that have a larger specular reflection range , so you should be able to do tricks like this.

BTW: if you prefer you can comment out this line in settings.fx "#define DYNAMICPBRLIGHT", this will enable the old specular.

Also are you using EBE in your test ?

Great test Bugsy, if you could post the fpm we can see the problems you find and perhaps fix some of them
Subscribe and checkout great GameGuru/AGK video's here: Videos click here
Latest GameGuru Loader news: News click here
Get GameGuru Loader PBR version here: Steam click here
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Belidos
3D Media Maker
8
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Nov 2015
Playing: The Game
Posted: 4th Sep 2018 09:00
Quote: "you use the "gloss" texture to do this , if you have a black gloss you will have no specular reflection"


I'm pretty sure it's the other way round in GameGuru, GameGuru's gloss texture is not a gloss texture, it's a roughness texture named _gloss, so black will be glossy and white will be rough.
[img]belidos3d.swgrp.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/blogo.png[/img]
Primary Desktop:
i7 7700,k NV1070 8GB, 16GB 3200mhz memory, 1x 2TB Hybrid, Win10.

Secondary Desktop:
i5 4760k, NV960 2GB, 16GB 2333mhz memory, 1x 2TB Hybrid, Win10.

Laptop:
i3, Intel 4000 series graphics, 6GB memory, 1x 500gb HDD, Win8.1.
GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 4th Sep 2018 11:04
thought I would test the cube maps and yes it has to be DDS it works quite nicely actually, notice the glass (thanks for the tip @Pirate Myke)

Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
Argent Arts
5
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2018
Location:
Posted: 4th Sep 2018 14:21
A very interesting read! Thanks for all the work put into this!
PM
Bugsy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: Savannah
Posted: 4th Sep 2018 15:17
alrighty I got my cubemaps working, and per preben the specular emission is fixable. I've reversed the gloss map for my slab.dds

does metalness have anything to do with reflection too? how does gloss/metalness work together? I know in 3dsmax one controls specular reflection and one controls fresnel reflection, but IDK how it works here since a clear reflection would have to be a cubemap
GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 5th Sep 2018 11:01
I have created a little tutorial on custom cubemaps that uses this scene https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219897#msg2605256
Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
Bugsy
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2008
Location: Savannah
Posted: 5th Sep 2018 16:07
excellent! I got that figured myself so I'll change it here

cubemaps must be .dds (dxt3)

also, apparently sometimes (but not all the time???) static lights cause specular emission! great edition.

I can't seem to understand why, but I notice I'll make a light bake that seems to completely destroy the scene, leaving some stuff black and others white, only to have to close it and reopen it and have it look normal...

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-03-28 08:37:39
Your offset time is: 2024-03-28 08:37:39