when Game Guru is going to have real updated lights & updated lightmapping system with hdr cubbemap?

something like:





Those effects are used in every modern game engine !!!!!

why its seems to be impossible with Game Guru ???

Please don't tell us its a work of thousand of people for adding that in the engine that !

Basically it's because Game Guru is 95% written by one guy in his bedroom and it would take either thousands of hours to implement a realistic realtime lighting engine, or tens of people working for several weeks. This is the route cause of all of Game Guru's shortcomings; the entire development trajectory is based on the timescales one guy can put into coding stuff. ONE GUY. And he has to research, code, test and polish everything by hand. It's only very recently that other aspects of the engine are being looked at by a small group of coders on GitHub - but there's still less than 20 people looking at Game Guru, and 19 of them are hobbyists.

With such limited manpower, Game Guru will forever fall behind the curve of "EVERY MODERN GAME ENGINE", that's why it looks graphically like an engine from 2007 (well, less so now since DX11 but that's still a work in progress)

AE

I don’t think the wife would stand for Lee using the bedroom ,but I no what you mean .

Dave

If you want an enhancement, post to GitHub. It either gets considered by a contributor or it doesn't. No sense getting angry about anything anymore. It's literally just a one-man effort with some occasional assistance from the community contributors. Some of them are contributing completely for free...

GG was originallyintended to be a remastered FPSCx9 engine. Now its somewhat trying to complete with other engines by providing 3rd person controls and multiplayer. I think GG is in a pretty good state at the moment. There are some fantastic additions being added. It really is worth-while checking out the Github.

I think keeping a positive tone around helps keep some of the contributors around. Especially those who are volunteering their time. Because at present (from my understanding) Lee is taking care of the bugs while contributors are adding new features. So far this model has proven quite successful for the past few months. I've even been able to add a few contributions of my own to the engine thanks to the source code being released.

this is what GG need to have:

Next-Gen Power

HDR
Deferred rendering
Physically based BDRF shading
Terrain CLOD
Dynamic lights
cascade shadow mapping
dynamic threaded occlusion culling
Image Based Illumination system

OCEAN

Multi-threaded FFT simulation
Gerstner simulation for local shore waves
Vertex displacement with Automatic LOD
Multi-layered tiled normalmaps
Subsurface scattering
Foam system
Realtime reflections
Refraction with Chromatic aberration
Water density

SKY

Completely procedural
HDR
Night & Day cycle
Dynamic Clouds dome
Billboard clouds
Highly parametrizable
Atmospheric Scattering








hardware instancing
FFT ocean simulation
atmosphere scattering
dynamic clouds sysyem
night and day cycle
SSAO and SSGI
dynamic reflection
Mesh LODs


TERRAIN

————————————
Advanced Terrain Editing and Rendering

In-editor sculpting
In-editor Texture splatting
Global colormap
Automatic Global Normalmap On-The-Fly Generation
Can import external 16 bit heightmaps
Terrain Ambient Occlusion







Automatic CLOD
Roads
Rivers
Fences
Vegetation system


VEGETATION

Procedural wind-based movement
Terrain Heightmap adapting
Splatting On Terrain
Color variance basing on position

PHYSICS & AI

————————————
Advanced high level facilities

Physx support
Rigid bodies
Ragdolls
Vehicles
Joints
Buoyancy







Waypoint path finding
Automatic terrain path generation
Steering behaviour
Message system
Tactical point helpers
Rich foundation library for controlling tactics


ASSETS IMPORTING

Drag ‘n’ Drop
Extensible via C++
FBX, DAE, 3DS, OBJ support for models & animations
TGA, PNG, TIFF, DDS support for Textures
WAV support for sounds

And all for a tenner!

Why don't you clone the repository and add it all then?

@ imothep85,what game engine did that list come from

Dave

What? I'm not paying extra for it, I'll just keep complaining til it gets added for free!

@imothep I know you like GG and really just want to see it improved but honestly it would be faster to learn unity or something else rather than wait for the 10 million features you say GG "must have" right now!!
(how many of these posts have you even made now? :p )

Yes the posts are becoming a little repetitive and using Caps is getting annoying ..

You have said your piece so no need for any more ..

That list come from S2engine who is ALSO developed by ONE guy, alone .
http://www.s2powered.com/copiasito/?page_id=1769

as a user of GG it's really weird to see a 3d engine so old (from fpsc to fpsc9 etc) to be outdated in therm of graphics and fx.
s2engine is developed by one person and almost every modern fx is present in the engine ,but the engine is not so easy to use, the developer is working on a new GUI and functions.

GG has a basic interface who make it easy to understand & use, for everyone.
but the GG engine ALSO developed by one person (Lee) need REAL & BETTER improvements, not only DLC, or PBR .
the engine need a NEW lighting system !

@imothep85: You're very welcome to CLONE THE GITHUB REPOSITORY AND ADD A NEW LIGHTING SYSTEM and see how long it takes you to program. good luck!! I TOO CAN SHOUT. OMG.

I swear i'm going to head over to Belgium, track him down, break in, and steal his caps-locks button!

This actually just proves the fact that nice GFX do not make a good engine..
I own it … Constantly crashes and I don't think anyone has ever created anything with it
Of course you know that or you wouldn't be here .

Yeah, I just recently bought the latest iteration of that engine - not because of any dissatisfaction on Game Guru front - but simply because it is on my want list because I have this confounded obsession to collect game engines.

Now I know, to be fair, I would have to spend time learning the engine and its peculiarities, but honestly it just doesn't have the same feel that Game Guru has out of the box - and my first impression is that I much prefer Game-Guru.

Now to be sure there are improvements I would like to see, and lots of things I would really like to see added - lights being one of them - But as said Lee is just one man, and we have some awesome people doing stuff for nix, but screaming about it will not do a thing.

We just have no option than to be be patient and enjoy the ride.

Im the same .. Leadwerks, S2 engine hd etc all have their drawbacks and complaints but to be honest out of all of them despite GG's list it really is the best of the bunch and the most usable at the moment ..

Are you capable of delivering up-to-date leveldesign and model work? If not these features would be wasted, would they not?

Okay, okay, enough playing devils advocate.

The lightmapping system has its flaws. However, to ease users into it, I took the time to write a tutorial on how to use it. LINK

The only issues I,personally, wish to be tackled are: 1. The memory managment of lightmapped levels. 2. The weapon HUD not reacting to lighting.
Everything else is a welcome bonus but I can roll with what I have mentioned above.

Do not get me wrong, I don't represent GG, I am of course in favour of all improvments.... but I find that a lot of the people who are the most vocal about new features are usually the least capable of using them. Judging from the quality of the content a lot of them have posted.



Take into consideration how you phrase things. You speak french, I do too. English is not your first language, it isn't mine either. However, the way you type is so disagreeable that I doubt anyone will take anything you present here all too serious. You come across like a rogue AI.
Writing all caps is as unnecessary as yelling in the bedroom and using multiple exclamation points is just plain agitating !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do we requite improved lightmapping features? Yes. Will it need to be like EVERY MODERN GAME ENGINE !!!!!.... I doubt it.
Call me an elitist but if you can not produce a level that would greatly benefit from this new technology I don't believe you should scream so loud for it. Lipstick - pig. I can of course be entirely wrong as I am not entirely familiar with your work.



-Wolf

Mayn. Ow mayn. So much NaCl. I wonder, do you even know what half of those things on that list are? Have you ever scripted something that is more than... 50 lines? Have you ever tried modelling? Texturing?

Idc what you can or cannot do, but this a civil forum. Keep the civility instead of flaming. Keep it cool and look around. The world will open up and you will find so many things that you can do with your time... instead of this bs.

Your wish is Prebens command

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219707

Roughly 30% decrease in memory usage and loading times

ok ok i removed my caps lock

Mriganka
yes i know moddeling and texturing and lighting and rendering, i work on vfx movie industry 20 years behind me

well my question is why those updates are not a priority in game guru ?
What kind of light are those we add in GG, for levels??

Because there is far more priority stuff that needs to be done first. Lighting is high priority, but it's a long way behind actually having a stable workable engine. DirectX 11 was a very important step, which took months to complete, the reason it was more important than lighting is because it introduces the base code for lee to improve the lighting system on, so technically he's done some work on lighting because he's updated the base engine that the renderer works on, which means when working on lighting comes around he (or whoever does it) will a) have an easier job, and b) have more scope and functionality to work with thus allowing more lighting features to be added easier.

Think of it like building a house. Without a foundation the walls will collapse. DirectX is the foundation. The lighiting is the walls. Up until recently the foundation was old and weak, you could only put so many walls up before the foundation gave way and crumbled. Now that the foundation has been upgraded to DirectX 11 they can add more and bigger walls without it collapsing into a pile of rubble.

@imothep85
You should check out your other posts once in a while instead of creating new ones ..
your wish may be in the pipeline ..

well im not a developer but a vfx guy im specialized in mattepainting (digital sets & backgrounds for movies) & vfx.

so i can do models and textures but nothing more !
what i like to do is test my models inside GG but actually when i see the models with a bad lighting system the only thing i can do is to wait for a next update of GG.

the second thing is, every time i start to do something with GG i get a new contract/job...........and then i have to stop the development & tests...

i think lot of people are waiting for a better lighting system.

Take a look here, it might be exactly what you want to hear and see.

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219447?page=2

Read the whole thread, especially about 3/4's of the way down, It's interesting and amazing too.

We all spend a lot of time banging on about graphic improvement but, honestly, I would have sacrificed DX11 entirely to get some decent AI and convex hull decomposition collision on dynamic entities...

...and a GUI to add loading screens and menus on a per level basis like FPSC had.

Let's get the basics right folks before we start complaining GG doesn't look like CryEngine...

AE

A gui for loading screens is not by any definition "basics" it's complete fluf content, and in my opinion should be one of the last things on the list.

As to AI, I agree out of the box it's not great, but as corrosion and defy have proven time and again, with some good knowledge of scripting it's actually really good, apart from the collision and ray casting issues, if Lee fixed them it would be perfectly serviceable, not perfect but good enough. So apart from the collision/ray casting issues (which aren't just an AI issue) it's not high on my priority list either.

And that is the crux of the problem, everybody has their own idea of what is or isnt priority, and to be honest I've seen some people's ideas of priority and literally fallen off my chair laughing.

This community thing is great, but everybody in the community has a bias towards what they want. I think it's time Lee sat down and worked out a primary development road map (with full disclosure so we know what to expect ahead of time), and left the community wants to github and donactions.

I used to be like you and complain all the time. As things slowly became less and less hard-coded, I then decided to learn LUA (took 3 months). I was then able to add 75% of the very things I used to complain about that Game Guru was missing. I was even able to knock off over half the items on the Feature Voting list myself. GG never promised the features you are complaining about. This is not Unity or Unreal or the unstable mess that is S2engine.

Now that Game Guru is on the Github, you literally have people volunteering their time to contribute. There is virtually nobody to complain to anymore. Simply put in a friendly enhancement request on the Github. Lee is working on Game Guru as a product and helping out with the bug fixes. A lot of the bulk work for improvements are currently being done by our awesome community. I think they deserve WAY more respect than they get...



I agree. I think right now TGC is coasting along with the github contributions showing progress. Though people are generally working on what they want out of personal interest. Thats one of the reason why I decided to attempt to tackle a drowning system, as it was lacking in my own games.

That's probably the only engine I don't own.

IMO if FPSC - which is 13 years old this year - had it, GG should have had it as standard from the beginning. It's not just about the loading screens, it's about being able to customise the compile settings, it's about being able to select which levels need to be included in the mapbank. These features, while limited in FPSC, were at least present. And what's it been replaced with? A single button that runs a process that always forgets to include certain media (particularly sound files and sprites) , usually doesn't include multiple levels, and relegates menus and loading screens to something you have to go in afterwards and edit.

Anyway rant over, I agree with you that everyone is biased towards what they want and some people's priorities are ridiculous.

AE

Problem there will be many that will not agree with his plan … Back to square one .. Hence why the voting system was created in the first place.

If Lee does do this then it should be set in stone .. No moaning, Throwing dummies, just like it or lump it, Leave or stay as they say.

with a little time, you can produce most of these lighting effects yourself in even x9 gameguru. you'll just have to either bake your lighting in your 3d tool before importing your map, or use a lot of invisible meshes to control where your light goes.

Going through the list, I can assure you that I don't know a single AAA game that uses all of the stuff.
And I have worked on the latest Hitman

I also think that GG doesn't need that so bad as (like Wolf hinted towards) 99.9% of the owners wouldn't be able to faciliate even a fraction of those features. Some stuff (like HDR) is even being slowly abandoned now by pro games.

However, as we are talking about lights: The factor that custom dynamic lights don't cast shadows in realtime lighting, is a visually deal-breaking bug. (Not even a missing feature).

This is something i still would love to see. Especially with the flashlight.

We need this for sure, long overdue.

ive been playing with lights LOL ist not AAA more like ZZZZ

GraPhiX, once you focused on the girl you just couldn't pan away from her for very long. :LOL:

lol sorry about that

if GG is looking to implement a new light system maybe one of those can help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siui7gLxcIQ
https://github.com/turanszkij/WickedEngine

http://research.nvidia.com/publication/interactive-indirect-illumination-using-voxel-cone-tracing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCwyIBOapY
https://github.com/Friduric/voxel-cone-tracing