GameGuru is a 3D game maker anyone can use to make their own simple First Person and Third Person games and, for the fledgling years of its existence, has been developed internally by our small team of coders and community contributors. Despite the strides made in adding technology, features and game making content, it was clear that the speed of progress was insufficient to meet the demands of the GameGuru community, and so we needed a smarter approach.

NOTE: We are attempting to change GitHub access to add a Gateway so only GameGuru users can access the Repository. While this is in progress, the repository will continue to be made available to anyone who wants to clone it.

What we needed was more coders, more artists and a better way to record features and fixes that could be assigned and completed efficiently, and it needed to be a solution that would allow a large group of collaborators to work side by side, rather than a forced critical path of one feature then another. The answer was something we had already been using internally for over a decade, and although code control comes in many forms, the one we like the most is GitHub.



So, with GameGuru moved to GitHub and the new GameGuru repository, not only do we now have a system to allow large-scale participation in GameGuru development, we have the benefit of a built-in issues tracker which will consolidate bug reports, feature requests and everything in-between onto a single system.

The move to GitHub has taken place and it will take a few months for the new system to get up to full steam, but with our excellent community of collaborators and some additional freelancer help, we should soon start to see those long-awaited features materialize.

We have already contacted a few members of the GameGuru community who have previously contributed to the success of GameGuru, and we look forward to sharing the fruits of their generous efforts with everyone through a regular cascade of Public Preview and Final Public releases via Steam.

Perhaps the greatest benefit to full source code access is the ability for anyone to dive into the engine and add the features they want without waiting for a central development team to start the task. If you have been waiting a long time for a specific feature, and have the required coding skills, you can add that feature right away, and if you so choose, you can submit that feature or change back to the main GameGuru repository for potential inclusion into the main product. In the past, we have accepted user contributions through forums and email, but now we can centralize this effort through GitHub and make sure the excellent activity and generosity of the community can be enjoyed by everyone.

To start your journey as a collaborator, or simply to check out what a game engine looks like on the inside, you can create an account with GitHub and visit the GameGuru Repository by following this link:

https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo

As with any new venture, we are still learning the best way to deliver this new service and hope you will continue to provide the feedback we need to make the GameGuru universe even better. If you do have some feedback for us, you can use the new GitHub issues tracker or contact us directly via our Support mail system @ https://www.game-guru.com/contact

Find the news story here: https://www.thegamecreators.com/post/gameguru-moves-to-github

NOTE: So as to head off any wild speculation, I can assure everyone that we are NOT open sourcing GameGuru in any way, it is entirely owned by TGC and all code/content is protected under strict copyright laws. Usage policy allows all the good stuff and excludes all the naughty stuff, allowing us to expand the team that works on GameGuru and bring you the features you've been waiting for a lot quicker. Already have volunteers to work on cool areas, and have started a 'boon pot' to pay for freelancers who want to work on specific areas (contracts posted soon). GameGuru development just went n-core

Wow! A big step towards advanced coders.
I think that this will give a positive impact in the development of GG. Great idea.
Thanks TGC!

Interesting move, I've used GitHub for years now this could speed things up nicely

Hi Lee

This is fantastic news and I think you've made a very good decision opening up GG to more coders.

Please can you confirm how do I compile the source code? Which version of VS do I use and how do I import the project / compile it?

Edit - Sorry, I found my answer here:
https://github.com/LeeBamberTGC/GameGuruRepo/wiki/How-To-Compile-and-Test-Your-GameGuru-Build

Brilliant move Lee.

Thank you for allowing custom builds to be used for own games too (with permission).

Cheers.

Looking forward to seeing things happen at a much faster rate now
@Lee .. Will you personally still be working by the voting or seeing how this plays out first ?
Perhaps if things move so fast we may no longer need it ..

I remember that talented coders advanced the FPSC engine a lot when they where able to grab the source code. (The airmod features are still used in GG rather unchanged for example!)

I see this as a very promising move and will look forward to what 2018 will bring



-Wolf

Great news Lee,I hope those that are able jump in and help .

Dave

about time

gameguru's finally about to become what it should have been 4 years ago. (probably in the next 3 years)
honestly though: good on you and thank you for this.

I really like this idea. Does this mean though, that just anyone could download the source, compile it, and have their own free working version of GG? Sorry, but I'm pretty ignorant about how these things work, and I am concerned about Lee's livelihood! Anyway, I am looking forward to the speedier development of this engine. I haven't given up on it; it's actually been enjoyable watching this thing develop over the years, and I continue to learn from every success as well as every failure.

Thanks for the overwhelmingly positive response, it took a long time to set-up (and there are a few niggles with the various builds to tweak) but I am happy with the first version of the repository. Expect more Wiki articles to show up as questions mount around various activities, and of course, expect to see the issues tracker get populated at an alarming rate over the next few weeks

Don't worry about my livelihood, I made sure the GameGuru repository had a very small asset collection (i.e. one entity from each folder) so you will still need to buy GameGuru from Steam to get the 6GB+ game assets which you could argue is an unbeatable value proposition for $20. I also think GitHub can be quite scary to the non-coder, and pretty hidden to most casual users, and the potential gain in features, stability, and speed of progress should help address many concerns reported by Steam users, which in turn makes GameGuru more popular and generate more sales. If it does become an issue, we can simply drop in a license condition that you need to own the Steam version before you can sell what you make, but I would prefer to keep this on a trust basis and focus on creation, and doing everything we can, with the resources we have, to make GameGuru something very special.

As to the voting board, I want to see how the collaborations unfold (both free and contracted) before deciding what should happen come voting board reset time. The board was meant to control what 'Lee' should work on next, but the new paradigm means five or fifteen things can be worked on at the same time, at different speeds, and so there is no longer a single task being worked on. GitHub does have a new 'project' management system which might be of use, but like many of you, GitHub will take some time to learn. I have only ever used it for basic source code control. Branching, issues tracking, wiki pages and open collaboration are all new toys, and as much as my instinct knows this is the smarter way to develop, I still need to acquire the skills to use these new tools effectively.

Another little benefit of the GitHub repository is that you not only get to glimpse what has been worked on in any day, but you can reach in and grab it without waiting for a beta / public preview or final update. For example, I just received the last of the PBR entities for the Big Escape (shrub and two more Palm trees) and I have added them to their CityscapePBR folder. If you wanted, you could clone the repo and grab those entities right now, no need to wait. Just bear in mind you will have entered the world of 'live' development, and so make sure you backup everything you hold dear before running development builds, they have a way of taking your nice levels and turning them inside out!

Hi Lee
I notice your instructions state Visual Studio Community Edition 2015, Microsoft seem to only want people downloading Visual Studio Community Edition 2017 will this work or do I need to get creative!
Sorry I've found the right link https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/older-downloads/ grabbing 2015 now.
Rick

Well this should be interesting .... cloning as I type ....

For us non-GitHubbers how will new version be released?

Via Steam one would assume.

I would have preferred an API system where additional features could be added to and override the core systems, that way the original source could still be closed protocol, but people could still develop their own features, but this is still good news, i can see that it will create a lot of third party modifications which will be useful to the community. I am a little worried that this will lead to a lot of people using gameguru that haven't purchased it, we already have a lot of sites that are illegally distributing gameguru as it is, we don't want more freeloaders.

If anything, availability of GameGuru via GitHub would give freemium users a chance to avoid downloading pirated software, which is invariably riddled with worms and viruses, prone to attack your PC at the first instant. If I can help stop the spread of nasty trojans, and prevent a little grief, it's all part of the service. You can think of a free user as a customer you haven't sold to yet I don't think 20 entities will get you very far in the game making universe, and at some point, the appeal of getting gigabytes of game making assets for $20 should garner sales we wouldn't normally have found.

Non-GitHubbers, Githubbers and all GameGuru users will still be getting GameGuru in the normal way, through Steam auto updates. We also have plans to have a non-Steam version which removes Steam API features for users who don't want to use Steam or connect to the internet.

Well the only thing I would like to see now is going on a PR mission to lure the coders in.

I'm still a little unsure about this, I just hope we don't get a 'ripped off' GG floating around the internet, its a very bold move and I can understand why it has been done.

There are some really talented folks around here that can help push GG into a formidable Engine

I am no coder I have dabbled a little bit and created small apps I have Visual Studio 2015 Enterprise and cloning the repository as I type but every now and again sourcetree crashes and I have to start all over again I do have GitHub Desktop client can I use that instead?

Sourcetree finally finished cloning I can see Preben as already started fixing LOL

Excellent!

Will we still have beta and public preview downloads from Steam? Or will all the development aspects be shifted over to GitHub now?



There is good and bad in this, on the good side it means less blot on the system having to run steam as well as gameguru, and the issues that come with having a steam API involved in the client. On the other hand, at least with it being linked to Steam the way it is there are certain features you can't use without Steam (downloading from the store etc) which cuts down on bootlegging. However, so far i believe the good out weighs the bad here.

Its a pity you couldn't only get the GitHub access to the files once you have actually purchased GG ..
That would be my preferred scenario .. Like only Verified users could get access .. Best of both worlds for the community ..
However this could boost developmet off the scale

I like that idea as well

Yes that would be the perfect solution.

My first thought yesterday after seeing the source code being released, rest in peace GameGuru.

But i'm completely in the dark of course on this matter.

After reading the replies it is quite clear that this might be a good step forward in development, although i wonder if there are indeed so many coders who can and will participate in the development of GameGuru.

Can someone explain a little how this works, is there a link between the coders so that they know who is doing what and why?

Why we not using git? So you can have more control about who gets it. But I am happy to get my hands on it
When I am finished with my project I will definitely look into it.

Thanks a lot and I hope we push GG to its limits

Edit: Damn why I updated to VS2017

Oh right .. No problem it just means you need to send us all $10

Just kidding of course .. Lee already has contracts in progress apparently for areas of GameGuru to be worked on so it basically means a more speedy development and those with the ability can also develop areas and upload their files for core implementation if they are approved ..
Its a really good thing for the community .. We have some real talent on this forum I can see really making a difference

I'm not sure how GitHub works but wouldn't there be a situation of different people changing the same area of code back and forth to 'their' liking on how they want things to work?

I'm not an expert ( far from it ) but I believe they can download and edit code to their own preference ... and maybe upload mods for approval but they cannot alter or mess up the original code Lee has on GitHub ...
That's my take on it anyway

That is quite clear, thanks synchromesh

Normally you create a branch/fork and develop your feature and then if it is finished you merged it in the master(bugs excluded). When you merge, the version-software(like git) tells you that someone changed the same code and ask you which you want to have. I think Lee will decide what comes in the master branch(which is the main source code) and what we get then over steam.

First of all, I'm stunned. It's a bold move and I think it will eventually pay dividends.


Curious though - will you still be releasing regular updates via steam? Or will we be required to download and compile to run it from here on out?

Nothing changes .. Steam updates as usual ... Worst case scenario .. More of them

Wow, what a move. I basically have the same concerns as someone in the thread...
This is a double faced decision. On a side, it will be positive (for development speed and growth), on the other, it won't (for copyright issues and control). But I'm still hoping the best as I believe in the software I decided to pledge in 2013, let's make it rock guys, and this will be a powerful community-driven engine.

I've contacted some of our best and brightest modders from the FPSC community. I also see a few here in the thread now. I believe Bugsy has contacted a few as well. All pointed to this thread. One of the reasons why the FPSC community had such longevity is due to the proactive modding and community contributions. I think migrating those efforts to Game Guru might help not just in Game Guru's development but strengthen and grow the community and finally bridge the two together. Also hopefully relief some stigmas the product has unfortunately gained over the years.

For me personally as long as all the contributions to the software is fixated on a single version (steam/or steam and nonsteam) I think that would be ideal. With FPSC it was great to see so many mods but I found it difficult bouncing between them to decide which would be best suited for my game projects. From what I'm reading here that won't be a problem. Looks like there be some oversight as well.

I also completely agree with you Lee; I dont see any harm in people using this system to gain access to Game Guru for free. With limited entities in the GitHud I can't see how that would hold much value compared to the complete inventory of stock items plus the DLC items.

I'm not very optimistic on getting more features faster only because it source code is now available and "free to contribute".

I hope I'm wrong but when the core engine of FPSC become open, yes the DBP community did a great effort to add everything to FPSC that was missing from it. But in most case it was really poor quality mods that made your game extremely slow or even crash and the ones were really good was not free. The devs did charge a small fee and made it available for free only when it development is stopped. Full source of FPSC is available for quiet some time but no one contribute to it, no one care to implement those cool MODS in to the core of FPSC. It is the same as before.

So why would anyone contribute to GameGuru with good quality content? Why would anyone contribute for free to something that is not free and require a license? The only way it could work if GameGuru would become completely free and open and TGC would offer only premium content to the free base. Yes in that case I can see people might contribute to GameGuru as they do with Godot and Unreal. Even Unreal is free to use, yes it does require royalty but only over certain amount of profit, otherwise it is free and require no license and it seems to be enough to receive contribution from the community.
An other thing Unreal do well is that Unreal Tournament become a community project, so not only the engine is open but the actual game that made the engine famous is also become free and open. It is also definitely helps with getting contribution to the engine. Maybe something similar, an open community project backed by TGC could help too. But I don't think we are going to see many free contribution as long the engine is not free.

What we most likely going to get is free MODS that you need to copy in to your GG folder and you can see how nicely make your game crash and paid MODS that is going to make you decide if you want mod1 with better AI or mod2 with vehicles if TGC allow but why not if they get some cash.

Free contribution to the core of GG? No chance unless GG become free and open.

This is what I recommend:
Make GameGuru a free and open software available to anyone for personal and commercial purposes but without assets. People need to import their own assets or buy ones from TGC and 3rd parties that is already optimized for GG and ready to use. This way I can see free contribution to GG might happen and TGC can still make cash in other areas like assets and may even offer tutorials and courses on game development with GG. If TGC really want, do it like Unreal and require royalties above certain amount of profit or do it like Construct 2 and require a one time fee "pro" license in case you make X amount of profit. Or offer a pro version for a small fee. But make the base engine and tool free to anyone. Otherwise making the source code available not going to change anything. People not going to contribute for free. Students maybe to practice, to get their degree, to get a job but that's it. Senior open-source developers won't touch it as long there is no free option I can guarantee that.

Because this is what TGC is hoping for. "Free" and "low cost" contribution from people developing features for their own needs. I can tell you that now it won't happen frequently. Maybe once or twice in a decade but not regularly.

Awesome! One day ,GameGuru will be the best game-engine in the world. You'll see...

@Zigi



From what I gather, TGC is contracting (paying) modders to add features to GG's core version. For people that feel currently stuck in their game projects due to missing features, they can, for personal use, if they have the coding skills, add those features to the engine themselves. Also for those people that think their feature has any worth, they can submit it for "possible" inclusion to the core build. Least this is what I gather from Lee's post.

If TGC can afford it, I'd hope that we'd have some people contracted to stick with GG for some time to contribute. If its purely for free, you are correct, we may not see as frequent contributions, or lesser quality.

With my experience in the FPSCx9 community, i hope this isn't the same case. But I think with the comment about contracted modders, things will may be different.

so does hat mean if a freelancer or anyone else work on a specific area on the code for witch we have been waiting long time , that we might have to pay now for the extra work being done ie swimming or drivable car scripts and stuff like that , that was on the voting board. or am i stressing for nothing.

Since both items are on the feature voting list i think these features would be contracted and added to the core. From Lee's post it seems to be the case:

some of my Afrikaans friends here on the forum will understand this..

K*k en betaal is die wet van transvaal. ne. lol

As usual TheGameCreators made the right move in my opinion
Would the Beta forum still have any sense ?

this a million times. but really we just gotta wait. the users will come when GG produces stuff that gets their attention

See black ice mod.........
No one worked on the editor because no one could get it to compile. Just ask nomad soul.

Ja, maar wat het dit met die prys van eiers te doen ?

Don't worry about the quality control aspects, all branch work will be tested by a third party before I even see it, and I will only accept tested and solid changes to go into the master trunk for the Steam builds. Beta, Public Previews and Final Updates will continue as normal on Steam, and I suspect the majority of GameGuru users will never need to see what happens in GitHub land, only that good stuff is happening (at a faster rate). Also, to confirm replies above, we are not relying on free contributions to progress the engine, we will be investing revenues made from Steam right back into the development (this has always been the case with our products). It's just an amazing fact that the GameGuru community is a fanatical contributor of content, and I would not dare prevent this generosity flowing into the Repository, we will just put a step in the process in which tests the addition before it becomes part of the product.

Once we get the GitHub files working nicely, with no surprises for collaborators, we can turn our attention to the voting board and the 'boon pot' which will allow us to recruit content makers from across the board to start hitting the features you've been longing to see. Different features will take different amounts of time and skill requirements, which will equate to the prize paid to complete the job, but the good news is that these developments can be done in parallel so you will get them sooner. We also get approached sometimes by third parties who want to pay up front for a specific feature, and we can arrange that special contracts be tended to deliver that feature. Only a few days ago on YouTube channel, someone wanted to pay $50 to have a weapon that fires green plasma bolts, which is basically reskinning one of the stock weapons, expanding the fireball projectile system a little and adding a green plasma bolt. Would take me about an hour or two, but that's $50 earned to the lucky contributor and everyone in the GameGuru community benefits with the addition of a new weapon and an expanded projectile system.

Another point that has been raised and something I want to action next week is the accessibility of the GitHub repository. The current opinion is that the repository should be placed behind a gateway so that only users who have the Steam version can clone and access the repository. I have recently learned that this is indeed possible thanks to the GitHub API and can be implemented relatively quickly, so the question remains whether we do this or not. I also learned today that the repository (which I must pay various fees for) has a bandwidth limit so anyone who clones GameGuruRepo reduces the available bandwidth for anyone else who might want to access the files. By preventing 'anyone' from cloning it, this bandwidth is preserved for GameGuru owners, which backs up the general opinion so far that access should be a privilege of actual GameGuru users. So the question is, do we add the gateway and protect bandwidth for the community, or keep it open in the hope we snag some extra coding talent from the wider world? As always, over to you

I vote for adding the gateway!

Add gateway - the barriers/price to owning game guru are low enough to hopefully not prevent talented coders who are interested.

Cheers.

Well you know my feelings Add the gateway ..
Personally i think it will boost sales if users know they can get the special access to the files anyway ...
In fact i would advertise that fact
It wont effect anyone who is already in our community so its not like we are dipping out and like you say the price of GG should help with bandwidth and ensure we dont just get freeloaders on board ..

Ditto, GameGuru is just pocket money