3rd Party Models/Media Chat / Texturing Large Assets?

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 8th Jan 2018 20:05 Edited at: 8th Jan 2018 20:26
Hi all

I have been struggling for a few weeks now and I cannot crack it, I cannot texture a large building (or a small one) the textures are always scaled too big and when you get close to the asset blurring occurs, I am using Quxiel to texture but cannot get large assets to look right.

I thought it might be my UV maps so I purchased Unfold3D VS 10 and although it has a steep learning curve the UV's it creates are a lot better than UU3D but I still have an issue, it is my lack of knowledge so I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction on how to texture a building.

as you can see from the image the doorway is scaled correctly but the bricks are not if you look I have the scale at -4 which is the lowest


as you can see in game it looks awful



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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 8th Jan 2018 20:33
1024 x 1024 texture is good for 1 meter of wall.
4096 x 4096 texture would be good for up to 4 meters of wall.

If this texture will be the only one one the texture sheet, then use a detail map to bring out detail when you get close to it.

A bit more info on what the detail map does. Updated
The detail map will tile out across your model when you get close to it. But it is not so good for textures with multiple materials on them.

A Detail texture is a small, fine pattern which is faded in as you approach a surface, for example wood grain, imperfections in stone, or earthly details on a terrain.

Regular wall texture:


The detail texture:


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GraPhiX
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Posted: 8th Jan 2018 20:46
thanks Myke
I have textures at 2048x2048 with a Texel density of 2048 the only way I can get it to look right is to not use a UV which is ludicrous a multi texture will tile properly but a UV does not, there must be a way of increasing the UV scale, I can create UDIMS but I don't think GG supports them the models are black.

the detail map will not make the bricks smaller but you are right I can hide the blurring with detail, my issue is scale 1:1 is not enough for big assets there must be a way of doing them wih the UV

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Wolf
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Posted: 8th Jan 2018 20:50
You can stretch the UV over the texture Just make sure the texture loops.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 8th Jan 2018 20:56
Quote: "You can stretch the UV over the texture Just make sure the texture loops."


do you mean load the model back into a UV editor after texturing and re scale it ? sorry to sound dumb lol
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 8th Jan 2018 21:03
here is the model can you show me please
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 8th Jan 2018 22:57
The texel density is supposed to be half of the original texture size.
If you original textures are 4096 x 4096, then texel setting is supposed to be 2048.

If 2048 x 2048 is the texture size, then texel setting should be 1024.

This is what quixel recommends.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 8th Jan 2018 23:21
Quote: "If 2048 x 2048 is the texture size, then texel setting should be 1024."


Yes I know that I increased it to see if it would look better but it does not I will try Wolfs suggestion in the morning
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Wolf
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 00:33 Edited at: 9th Jan 2018 00:34
Hey Graphix!

Imagine that your texture is a tile that repeats endlessly and design it with that in mind
You can drag the UV over the borders of your texture map, the texture map will repeat.
See attached examples using your model and textures

Check out these attachments.

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 00:48
Yes drag out the face on the uv mapping for sure.


I made an AO map for it also and a detail map.
Game Guru can use these both right now.



But this will not clear up the texture as you can see in the last picture.
I would re do it in Quixel and lower the texel density to at least 1024, or even less to 512 to see if the texture is tighter.
Another trick is to make the original texture twice the size that you intend to use in game, and then step scale it down to your intended size, there fore tightening up all the pixels.

But I think there is a texel description somewhere that explains the formula to figure out good settings.

Found it.
http://leonano.com/portfolio/texeldensity/
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 08:37
Thanks Guys, I will give it a go this morning
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 10:13 Edited at: 9th Jan 2018 15:40
does this look better or should I scale more, the one on right was original the one on the left is a scaled UV, I'm still not sure it looks right

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Earthling45
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 13:28
Can't this be solved with a texture atlas?

Than you still have one texture, but tiling is possible then and hence have the right resolution.

This is one of the problems i face with the fortified town level, hence why i use EBE.

There is another problem that has kept me busy for a few days, the texturing of an arch.
To have seams in there is obviously not what i want, the only way i can think of to do it right is either use a noisy material like concrete and than paint the stone pattern on it.



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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 14:34
In 3ds max, UV mapping has a straightening feature.
Took care of all that for you.
Give the attached obj a try.
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Belidos
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 14:48 Edited at: 9th Jan 2018 14:51
In blender for curved UV's you would (as in max) basically straighten out the curve so it lays flat on the texture, and the texture curves nicely around the UV. It's a simple process you simply select the line you want to straighten, then press S 1 X (for a vertical line) or S 1 Y for a horizontal line. That's how i got the textures to curve around on my modular road corners so perfectly.



As to the original question, there are multiple ways of doing it, there's wolf's method which involves stretching the UV's outside the bounds of the texture, which will automatically tile the texture, or there's the method that Bod uses on his models, you break the models down into smaller parts, then overlay each of the UV's on top of each other on the texture. Both are great ways of working, however they only really work for large simple tileable areas, if you want lots of little details on the texture then each detail you add would be tiled across the model, which can make it look odd (as wolf pointed out to me with the scratched writing on one of my walls in my project). Whatever you choose to do, there will always be some sot f compromise on models with large surface areas whether it's increasing texture resolution and thus memory footprint when used, or reducing the texture resolution by overlapping and tiling textures, it can be quite frusttrating.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 15:22
@earthling45 - would something like this be ok ? I have added the AO and normal for you and slightly altered the UV


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GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 15:32
this is the building I am trying to texture like I said multi textures work great, I think I might have to break it down much like Bod does, this has me stumped.

how does the atlas texture thing work? is that multiple models or a single mesh? I know of UDIMS but not really seen much on atlas

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Earthling45
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 15:46
I tried it in lite unwrap, but obviously it is better to unwrap in 3ds Max.

Thanks Pirate Myke, that looks a lot better.
GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 15:49 Edited at: 9th Jan 2018 15:53
Quote: "I tried it in lite unwrap, but obviously it is better to unwrap in 3ds Max."


sorry I got the wrong end of the stick me shut up and sit in the corner and watch the big boys play
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Earthling45
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 15:53
Quote: "@earthling45 - would something like this be ok ?"


That looks quite stunning.
Earthling45
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 16:21
Quote: "how does the atlas texture thing work?"


I did make a big building and broken it down into 100x100 squares which i then painted with a texture atlas which had multiple textures on it.
I think EBE works in the same way, each floorpiece that i place has it's texture from the texturemap.
Using the free plugin from Eneroth enables us to scale, rotate and position the texturemap in sketchup.
GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 17:48 Edited at: 9th Jan 2018 17:49
ARRRGGHHHHHhhhhhh.......

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Bugsy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 19:20
issue you might be having here is the transparency on that building may not be set to the right number. i had glass without transparency=2 and couldnt see any stuff i put behind it.

also be sure you have cullmode set to 1 if the interior of the building is backfaces
GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Jan 2018 20:31
hi bugsy
transparency=6 and cullmode=1

its really getting me wound up now lol it must be something simple
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 12:35
You can send me the thing and I'll have a looksee.
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 14:31
I think i remember from another thread that someone ? think it was "GraPhiX" told us that we need to put glass in a seperate mesh (group) to get it to work in GG, or it would hide everything behind it , i think he had this problem with a table ?

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 14:44 Edited at: 10th Jan 2018 14:47
Quote: "I think i remember from another thread that someone ? think it was "GraPhiX" told us that we need to put glass in a seperate mesh (group) to get it to work in GG, or it would hide everything behind it , i think he had this problem with a table ?"


Yep that was me and that is what I am doing LOL I had the perfect workflow for glass and now it seems something is a miss


@Wolf - I am going through the model in sketchup now I think I know what the problem maybe thanks you for the offer if this does not work I will send it to you
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Earthling45
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 15:34 Edited at: 10th Jan 2018 15:48
Last year i've been quite busy with doors and windows, frame and glass.
I did manage to get it to work.



Is it set as an occluder?


@Pirate Myke, which version do you use?
I'm using 3ds Max 2015 and despite following tutorials i'm unable to do what you did with the seams.
So for me it is impossible to weld vertices or edges where there is a base seam (green)
If i break a part of the model and thus create a new seam, than there is no problem because i can select the edge or vertice and weld them back together.
I've tried to remove the uwv and also reset peel but the seams are not removed.

Edit: the above about getting it to work is in reply to Preben.
Earthling45
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 15:44
Quote: "how does the atlas texture thing work?"


Forget that, i've downloaded your building and made squares of 200x200cm after adjusting the size of your room building.
In lite unwrap i've put the squares of the outer wall on top of each other, the same with the inner wall, top and bottom.
Saved it as obj and was able to apply brick materials in the right proportion on the whole building.

I've learned something yesterday
Pirate Myke
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 16:27
I use 2015 version.

What I do is select the polygons I want to straighten out and the break them from the uv island they are attached to.
In the Edit UVW's Window under reshape element the first Icon on the left will flatten it straight. It is called straighten selection.


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Earthling45
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 20:12
Quote: "What I do is select the polygons I want to straighten out and the break them from the uv island they are attached to.
In the Edit UVW's Window under reshape element the first Icon on the left will flatten it straight. It is called straighten selection."

Yes understood.

I thought you also welded some edges.

The file which i uploaded was uv mapped with lite-unwrap.
Yesterday evening i've exported the same sketchup model as a 3ds file and imported it in Max to do the unwrapping in 3ds Max.
But i was unable to weld the parts together, remove the base seams and create the seams where i wanted them.

Today i've done that in lite-unwrap and then straightened them in Max afterwards.

3ds yesterday.


Edges welded in lite-unwrap.





Pirate Myke
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 21:10 Edited at: 10th Jan 2018 22:01
I will take some screen shots of the way I did it in 3ds max.
Will post when complete.

EDIT:
OK, here we go.
I open max to a blank project and import your model with the setting set for metric centimeters and system units centimeters.
When imported I select all objects and rotate them so up is in the top view. (max Orientation).
Select all objects again and apply the Unwrap UVW modifier. (All objects selected, so I have all the UV's to arrange for a single texture.)


Open the UV editor ....

Select the faces on the left that I have.
Right mouse click, choose break.
Press the Icon on the right.
Results:

Repeat for all arched faces.

For the separated ones:

Select the faces I have selected.
Break and arrange them as follows.

Zoom in and move next to each other in the proper order.


Arrange all the UV islands to fit into the 0 - 1 space and then apply your textures.
Mine turned out like this, as I sent you the corrected object file from me.


I see that the original unwrapping kept the sides together so the texture flows from side to side on the mesh.
Not sure if you are using photographs or a texture program to texture these out.
Arrange the UV as needed to accommodate your next process.

Hope this helps more.
This is not the set way of doing it, there are many ways to unwrap your object. I tend to do a lot of hand work to arrange the way that I need.
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Posted: 10th Jan 2018 23:45
Since this is a discussion about texturing large assets I thought I would post my attempt at
creating a PBR smart material for 3D Coat and then texturing a large structure for GG.
I had trouble making the textures that are needed to create a smart material for 3D Coat.
I found a free seemless brick texture and ran it through an open source program called Awesome
Bump. Awesome Bump allows you to create all the textures you need for PBR from your diffuse
texture. You can preview and tweak them in the PBR viewport an then export exactly what you need.
I needed a cleaned diffuse and a height tex, roughness tex and a metalness tex for 3 D Coat to create
a smart material. With a little experimentation I got what appeared to look good in 3D Coat.
I then painted it on a object in 3D Coat and exported with my GG settings. Screen shot shows the
result. I think it looks ok as PBR but not 100% sure. Here is the link for Awesome bump.
The version 4.0 I got from this link did not work for me so use 5.1.

http://awesomebump.besaba.com/

I got the latest version 5.1 from this link.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/awesomebump.mirror/

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Earthling45
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Posted: 11th Jan 2018 13:42
Quote: "I will take some screen shots of the way I did it in 3ds max."


Thanks Pirate Myke.

If i import the same obj file which i have put up for download in this topic, i'm able to do everything, including welding the edges or vertices which eliminates the green seams like is shown and explained in the tutorials.

For some reason 3ds Max does not like the obj file which is exported out of sketchup, that is why i export it as a 3ds for Max.
The downloadable file mentioned above was exported as an obj out of lite-unwrap and importing this obj in Max is no problem.
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Posted: 11th Jan 2018 16:28 Edited at: 11th Jan 2018 16:33
The info about texel density from the link which Pirate myke shared with us made me wonder how well EBE does handle textures.
A texture used in EBE is resized to 1024x1024, that obviously means stretching and reduced quality.
So i made a floorpiece of the same size as the EBE prefab, tiled the cobblestone texture on it and laid them side by side in the editor.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 11th Jan 2018 17:42
apart from the rubbish textures (stretching n stuff) this is not a bad model 1400 polys, the glass I can no longer do I have created them as separate groups as I did with my table but no joy, as you can see its a strange one because if I look through the glass I can see the glass on the other side !

here is my FPE it could be something ive done wrong there


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Posted: 11th Jan 2018 19:00
Also I think there is an option in FPE that divides your textures. I think to prevent this you use -1. Its also in the setup file as well for GG. Can't recall if its default setting divides texture quality at all.
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Posted: 11th Jan 2018 19:05


Hi GraPhiX, as an attachment you'll find the window which has caused me quite some headache as you can see in the video.
But i also have seen that entities dissappear when the occlusion slider is at 100 in the TAB-TAB.
Maybe that is causing your problem?
I've tried the window with the new pbr shader after renaming _D as _color and _N as _normal map and it is still ok.

I wouldn't know what is causing your troubles otherwise, what you see in the video is on the one hand the wrong transparency setting, on the other hand a mistake in the model which did cause one corner not to be visible when looking through the glass.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 11th Jan 2018 19:45 Edited at: 11th Jan 2018 19:52
Glass use to be a headache for me I did manage to find a good workflow for it so I am not sure what as gone wrong

I have attached the New Building to this post if anyone would like to have a look, if you need the OBJ let me know




I'm going to experiment with the group thing again and increase the alpha by 5 see if that makes a difference, I'm thinking it could be a group thing because the glass group is visible to the glass but not to the building the mind boggles, also the UV for the office was 'stacked' which allowed me to scale the UV by 2 the textures look a bit better but still not quite right also I cannot use an AO map with it because of the stacked UV the AO is almost all black

Oh I forgot to mention Lee likes the Glass barrier in the last video so it will be included in the next release for all to use
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 09:53
TADAAAAAAAAA.......

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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 10:55
Nice one, what's the work flow for that? How did you get the transparency to work without culling?

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 11:08
Quote: "Nice one, what's the work flow for that? How did you get the transparency to work without culling?"


LOL that's what I am trying to refine now I tried every tool in my arsenal and not sure which one did it lol so I am doing it again now and logging what I am doing, once I have nailed this I will look at sorting the texture issue too.

I'm just creating a small model with glass in now to see if I can get it to work again
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granada
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 12:29 Edited at: 12th Jan 2018 12:31
You can sort the texture scaling in UU3D

This is 4 textures with diferent scaling

Original uv

Maped


A better texture would show it of better,but it works

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 13:38
Hi Dave thanks for this, I can see your point and yes this would work for a single texture but not for an asset with multiple textures
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 14:31 Edited at: 12th Jan 2018 15:04
This is the largest building that looks ok with textures anything bigger and I have stretching n stuff, I will continue to refine the workflow for a solution to this.

I have attached the model to this post

in the meantime here is how to get glass working in a single model (one X file) with groups I have used fragmotion to apply the texture it seems to be the only one that keeps the groups separate in the X file, if I apply the texture with UU3D it seems to merge the group for some reason.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 17:33
Ok I think I have made progress with the textures, looks like I am going to go with Master Bod's idea of 'modular' this is the ground floor, I think the textures look ok



a bit of furniture in it



what do you think ?
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granada
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 17:42
That looks a lot better ,i want the desk by the round window .

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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 18:24
That looks very good.
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 20:20
GraPhiX

Maybe it is just the video but something looks wrong with the smoothing groups
on the office furniture. For example the billboard has a dark shadow on the bottom of the pages.
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
GraPhiX
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 20:31
Quote: "Maybe it is just the video but something looks wrong with the smoothing groups
on the office furniture. For example the billboard has a dark shadow on the bottom of the pages."


ahhhh LOL they are stock assets they are not mine I just plonked some stuff in to make sure my scale was right,
a few stock models are now broken, all those assets was from the mega pack 03 DLC which needs some TLC lol
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