Product Chat / "Not A Professional Tool" ?

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Teabone
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 07:59 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 08:04
Bumped into an interesting review of Game-Guru as an engine. I at first was expecting to really dislike what I was about to hear. But he makes quite a lot of fair points.



I actually personally didn't notice the Steam description giving mention to Game-Guru as being "not a professional tool". Also about it being more of a hobbyist tool. I guess I shouldn't get up all up in arms about missing features and etc, keeping this in mind.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 08:20
Um less then 20 seconds actually showing the engine, and 11 minutes of showing some thing completely unrelated to gameguru ?. Well that is 11 minutes of my life I will never get back. I hate youtube reviewers with a passion, as 99% of the time they don't have an idea of what is actually going on.....

Valid or not unless you have actually produced ,worked and released a successful commercial game/software, I take every thing youtube reviewers say with a pinch of salt.May offend some people, nor is it the intention.There is a lot more to it then simply reading a description on a steam page and spending 11 minutes sharing an opinion about software/a game you haven't seen past the steam page and a couple of video's.


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arfur9
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 08:54 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 08:55
notepad can be a pro tool applied in the right way

ANY game engine is as only as good as the person using it, I can think of some really horrible game engines that made commercial games. GG doesn't come close to being a horrible one
Belidos
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 08:58
I saw this a little while back, and actually responded to it, there's a lot i agree with on there, but there's a lot i disagree wih, here's what i wrote:

Quote: "I have to disagree with this, there are a few games out there that are far superior to many of the indie games engines like unity and UE have spawned, which are perfectly viable for Greenlighting, and there are just as many crappy indie games coming out of the "professional" engines as there are coming out of GameGuru..

It's true you will never make a AAA game with GameGuru, but you can make good quality games if you put the time and effort into it, it's just a little limited at the moment if you don't know how to script or model, but if you do, then you can make some great games, at the moment it is highly geared towards first person (not necessarily shooter!) but does have potential for third person if you're creative.

The biggest problem GameGuru has is it has attracted a lot of users who think that just dropping a few entities on the terrain with a couple of stock scripts is creating a game, and this is what we're seeing with Greenlight, but if you take time to look at the work in progress section of the GameGuru forums, you will see there are some users that are taking their time and working miracles with this engine, especially some of the WIP's such as; Cybernesences - The Cogwheel Chronicles: Volume 1 Mechastica, Bugsy's - Kshatriya: Origins, Emrys's - Control, and Wolf's - Shavra - Renaissance"


I also private messaged him exactly about what Wizard of ID mentioned about there being almost no footage of GameGuru, apparently that's just his style, he doesn't show the actual games and software he is talking about, his channels all about him talking about something while he's playing a random game, it's a more casual kind of thing.

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devlin
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 09:19 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 09:23
some positive and negative feedback from this review.
lee has taken notice recently and has done some work on gg
and a lot to do still. a positive move from lee, but i still think
the game creators should put all there resources now into game
guru and put anything else on hold if a team has time to make another product
and it not getting the funding required, would put shivers through anyone,
if GG does not get some major attention to prove the critics wrong then i feel
it will be the end of game creator engines for TGC, i do agree gg is a great tool
for learning experience, but spending 3 years using gg before it becomes more viable
it is a long learning curve, and you could learn a lot in 3 years to make a professional game
in other software, so some points made in the video are quite valid, and should be respected.
to be truthful he could have shown actual video of GG games to embarrass the software with some of
the games made with GG so i dont find his video or review to biased but some what fair in his own view.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 09:20 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 09:32
Quote: "he doesn't show the actual games and software he is talking about, his channels all about him talking about something while he's playing a random game, it's a more casual kind of thing."
My head hurts......trying to figure out why he would do that.

Let me go review star wars rogue one on youtube, and show star trek beyond footage........because that is EXACTLY what it equates to.Even worse some one that has never seen gameguru before will get the impression you can create a 2D game like in the video.....My head still hurts.....
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Belidos
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 09:22 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 09:23
Quote: "My head hurts......trying to figure out why he would do that."


It's his gimmick and it seems to get him the subscribers. We all have our weird little ways. I suppose it's better than having the face of a spotty little oik grinning at you from the center of the screen like some do :p

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synchromesh
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 09:23 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 09:23
Perhaps hes just advertising the platform game running in the background
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wizard of id
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 09:36
Quote: "Perhaps hes just advertising the platform game running in the background "
Well it annoys me, how can you take it seriously, secondly how long does my virtual pointy stick need to be to give him a couple of virtual jabs in the ribs.....

Nope my head still hurts......If it is an advert even worse........Nowhere did I hide that pointy stick....
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Belidos
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 09:47
Quote: "Well it annoys me, how can you take it seriously"


This is where you're falling down mate, you should never take anything on YouTube seriously, it just doesn't work like that :p

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Ertlov
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 10:00
Sure he is. However, I have replied, too.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 12:56
Quote: "This is where you're falling down mate, you should never take anything on YouTube seriously, it just doesn't work like that :p"
You fell a bit you failed to notice I said, experience and qualification gives you the right for me to take your opinion seriously There are some seriously good channels on youtube gaming and none gaming related, that is worth every penny of bandwidth.There is an equal amount bad channels or mediocre channels around.

This particular one is a festering splinter you want to pop like a zit....not particularly hard considering 262 subscribers.

I Looked at the channel as a whole, another 5 minutes I want to give back
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Lance
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 14:12


"Not A Professional Tool" ? Are we talking about the person who did the so called review ?
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Belidos
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 14:19
Quote: ""Not A Professional Tool" ? Are we talking about the person who did the so called review ?"


No, that's a line from the steam description.

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smallg
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 15:30
Quote: "
"Not A Professional Tool" ? Are we talking about the person who did the so called review ?
Lance"

Lol.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 16:03
Lol
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3com
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 18:04
Not a professional reviewer.

3com
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 18:08
10 seconds in and I thought what a load of drivel
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Teabone
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 21:05 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2017 00:45
To be honest I did not know TGC was calling Game-Guru "Not A Professional Tool", until I saw this video. It kind of counters why I've been using it and supporting it for my own personal use. The given mention also of it being a tool for hobbyist also mentioned by TGC. This is what I got out of the video.
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dedser
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 21:21
I only hope the characteristics of the game guru are not when it is already dead
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Teabone
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Posted: 1st Feb 2017 02:28
(if a mod wishes to move this to off-stop feel free lol)
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Unspokenbond
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Posted: 1st Feb 2017 03:15
Quote: "Perhaps hes just advertising the platform game running in the background "


Bingo! LOL exactly my thoughts good sir
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Ertlov
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Posted: 1st Feb 2017 10:25
Seems like the video has been set to private
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Ertlov
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Posted: 1st Feb 2017 10:59
Mine, too.
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AuShadow
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2017 00:04
Lol it went private pretty much straight after I posted a comment citing lack of research and using the program him self to base his opinion and to visit the forums, instead it seems he created his review from other videos reviewing some of the shall we say less desirable greenlight games.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2017 00:31
A tool is only as professional as those who use it. Gameguru would totally sell to non-hobbyist studios looking for a cost effective solution that doesn't take long to train a new employee to use if it was in a state that was more capable (more media support, BETTER 3D model import pipeline, inbuilt script editor highlighting syntax, capable building editor)

sadly it is not. I hope to see it become more capable in the future. it's money TGC is losing out on.

also: I haven't used the new EBE yet but I will say that GG should have shipped with that, whatever it is. It appears to me a lot like segments, which if it is, I will be somewhat disappointed (although somewhat relieved I don't have to learn anything new). I would have preferred something similar to hammer editor, allowing simple drawing of walls and stairs and splines and selection of a texture/texture repeating options. I'm sure most "studios" would prefer something robust like that too.

mainly though, I think studios want the ability to import a .fbx file for ANY ASSET (gun, character, entity) and have it work every time like it does pretty much everywhere else (unity, unreal, fragmotion, UU3d, 3ds max, etc.). The lack of a very good asset import pipeline is probably the main thing that makes GG seem a bit "unprofessional"
Teabone
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2017 00:43 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2017 03:04
Quote: "Has anyone else noticed a lot of forum members avatars have gone missing, mine included ?"


Yep, my avatar disappeared today.

EDIT: fixed just had to reset it back to custom.
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2017 00:49
Yeah I was having trouble with some image hosting sites, ended up using a link to my Twitter profile pic
MadLad Designs
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2017 00:54
My avatar also disappeared had to go into my profile and point to it again.
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Wolf
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2017 22:19
Quote: "Also about it being more of a hobbyist tool. I guess I shouldn't get up all up in arms about missing features and etc, keeping this in mind."


Has there ever been any doubt about this? GG was not supposed to be that new cutting edge tool for people who make games commercially/professionally.
"Professional" has, at least as far as the internet is concerned, kind of a stigma attached to it with people throwing it around left and right, often only to describe quality. I suppose thus this part of the steam description can rub some people the wrong way?

Bugsy, having a slightly different POV, is raising a good point though.
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2017 05:06
Avator fault reported and fixed ... They should all be ok now ...
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