Product Chat / Lee: Shader pack permission.

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Preben
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Posted: 13th Dec 2016 14:26
Hi Lee, i just finish a GG Loader shader pack for GameGuru, i changed most of the shaders that are used in GameGuru with some custom ones. They are based on the original shaders so thats why i ask for permission to include my custom GameGuru shaders in GG Loader. Permission ?

I will release it for free to people that already have GG Loader, but will not put it public anywhere , so people using it knows its the GG Loader pack, and you should not get any mixed bug reports due to this.

Why: The main reason to change all the shaders is to be able to use the terrain LOD i use in GG Loader, so you can paint the terrain LOD directly in GameGuru. ( sure you will also be able to use the LOD and boost directly in GameGuru without GG Loader ).

How: Terrain you set to flat below water in the distant, will not be drawn. but be cut at vertex level in the frustum clipping stage, so no fragment is called. Water shader will hide this so everything looks normal. and sure if you get close to the LOD parts they still looks and works like normally, you will never se this happen.
Dark blue areas in editor are LOD terrain you draw using the normal terrain tools, and will get cut by the LOD shaders:


Thats the main reason for this , but there are also more included like:
* Your able to complete disable/enable: Deep of field and/or blur.
* Bloom have been changed to a linear sampling, going from 9 samples per run to 5 samples with same result.
* Shadows has been changed from 8 Poisson Disk samples to 5 dither samples with random world xz texel offsets , to give nearly the same result.
* Tangent and Binormal calculation moved from terrain fragment to vertex shader, for a little more terrain speed.
* Fixed errors i found, like static light mapped objects did not get any normals and dynamic shadows did not work.
* And other minor stuff here and there.

Here is a few before and after shot, FPS is low i normally use Mac so this is running on my old laptop using highest settings, but you can do the math

You can also see the new faster shadows on the terrain, some will prefer the old but hey you decide:


Before: Notice transparent water:


After: Now hiding LOD terrain, but still when you get closer to water its transparent as normal:


The area in these screenshot has a lot of LOD terrain so don’t expect this kind of improvement everywhere, it depends on how mush can be CUT by the LOD, but you always get faster terrain no matter what. Screenshots is based on Highest setting but LOD also works on High,Medium,Lowest.

My plan is to continue making faster shaders for GameGuru ( like a tree shader, and there are tons of other types of shaders that would be useful ) and make as many visuals from GG Loader directly available in GameGuru (hlsl versions). But the above will be in the first release.

Let me know
best regards Preben Eriksen,

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granada
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Posted: 13th Dec 2016 14:43
Now that looks and sounds cool,nice work.

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Emrys
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Posted: 13th Dec 2016 14:55
Superb stuff ! I hope Lee lets you release the pack
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cybernescence
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Posted: 13th Dec 2016 14:57
This is awesome Preben. Worth buying GG loader to get the new shaders for GG alone (which I think I'll do) if you get permission to include them.

You might get a quicker response if you email Lee directly.

Excellent terrain LOD idea and build!

Cheers.
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Posted: 13th Dec 2016 21:38
awesome stuff
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 14th Dec 2016 07:32
Yes, feel free to update the shaders and include them in your GG loader
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Emrys
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Posted: 14th Dec 2016 08:33
Nice one Lee

Again, great work Preben
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 14th Dec 2016 12:40 Edited at: 15th Dec 2016 13:59
that's great news, can't wait to try out the new shaders with GGLoader, worth the buy.
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Emrys
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Posted: 14th Dec 2016 13:27
I don't own AGK but I would buy the GG Loader just to get the shaders
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Anubis
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Posted: 14th Dec 2016 15:26
Quote: "I don't own AGK but I would buy the GG Loader just to get the shaders"


Yes, for NEW shaders. New as in, not present in current GG build.
Cartoon shader for example, which looks awesome

But.. No, for fixes to the Stock Shaders.. like the Dynamic Shadows on Prebaked entities (bug)Fix..
Those should be in GG for all to enjoy. Lee should implement those fixes.

my 2 cents
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Bolt Action Gaming
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Posted: 14th Dec 2016 16:54
I agree that some of these fixes should be standard for game-guru as they're not addons but rather actual fixes to the product. Lee - Compensate him with $$, buy the fixes and implement them lol
Preben
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 12:06 Edited at: 15th Dec 2016 12:08
Thanks Lee

I agree the fixes should be in GG , this is not the reason for this pack , the reason is to allow GG Loader users to directly paint LOD terrain inside GameGuru.

Lee: I will post whatever i find in the bug section so it can be fixed in GameGuru. perhaps its better you fix it yourself so you still know what is going on, or get a copy of GG Loader and checkout my fixes/workarounds speed improvements, you can freely use anything you want/like

Also please remember the greatest FPS boost you get when you use your level is in AGK GG Loader, but in GameGuru you also get a boost , mainly when you have a level and you see water, thats where you get the greatest boost. Also when disabling DOF,BLUR completely you will be able to use bloom,ssao without a big drop in FPS , DOF really drains the FPS, and currently there is no way to disable it, if you use bloom it will always execute.

This is mainly for LOD and GG Loader so don’t get it for the bug fixes

BTW: i will make a video about how to draw LOD, until then: You just use the terrain tools , set the terrain below the water plane and make it FLAT , it must be flat for LOD to work, you can see it in the editor when you have “dark blue” it is LOD.

I uploaded the first version to http://www.daily3d.com user area “gameguru-shaders.zip” ( with the above features, and a few more bug fixes in entity_basic and static_basic) ,so current GG Loader users can download and install it (let me know if there is any problems), also please post your results
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 13:21
many thanks Preben, will try these out hopefully later today
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 13:29
Yeah so its not ideal having to pay $49.99 to get some essential shader updates which should be in the engine by default. GG itself only costs £15 so this will only make sense for people that really want the other features or just have cash to burn.

I would have preferred an option to purchase the shader pack separately as I don't own AGK.
Ertlov
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 13:46
Would be a cool store item, too. I mean the shaders alone. Currently we are working with all GG shaders ripped out and a customized version of reshade mastereffects injected in the renderer - which is NOT an ideal solution.
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 14:08
Quote: "Would be a cool store item, too. I mean the shaders alone."

Ye I cant really afford the whole tool just for the shaders .... But on the store I would probably purchase
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 14:11
Are these shaders compatible with GG or just AGK?
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Preben
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 15:55
Jerry Tremble: Yes the shaders are for GameGuru , you simple replace all the shaders located in /effectbank/reloaded/ and your running , remember to make a backup of the old shaders

Quote: "having to pay $49.99 to"


Its 39 , and for the AGK source code to load a GameGuru level, and TONS of 3D functions/shaders

Quote: "But on the store I would probably purchase "

They will not get sold as a separate pack as it is based on the original GG shaders , so thats will not be possible. they are included for free, to allow you to draw LOD terrain and see it directly in GameGuru, before you export your level to AGK.

Again don’t get it for the bug fixes , i will start to make bug reports so they will get fixed directly in GameGuru at some point.

First bug report , it takes forever to do them, so might take some time before i get all reported
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/216879
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Preben
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Posted: 16th Dec 2016 11:50
Some wanted FXAA , so i added fxaa to the shaders today:


Uploaded a new version gameguru-shaders101.zip to www.daily3d.com

I still consider this beta until a get more feedback
best regards Preben Eriksen,

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granada
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Posted: 18th Dec 2016 03:12
This is realy great work,nice to see the results.

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Preben
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Posted: 18th Dec 2016 13:18 Edited at: 18th Dec 2016 13:19
Thanks granada

More speed improvements, im nearly on 100% boost on my test level now (same as above before/after images) and includes FXAA and lensflare
Everything now works with and without SAO.
Everything can now be combined disabled/enabled anyway you like ( read readme.txt file ).
Added lens flare.



Added the lastest version gameguru-shaders102.zip to www.daily3d.com
best regards Preben Eriksen,

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cybernescence
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Posted: 18th Dec 2016 17:21
Great stuff Preben.

A little feedback -

Your terrain LOD works well - can very easily see the cut when testing by removing the water. Very nice idea.

The new bloom approach (when set over 80) gives me streaks from top left to bottom right of display. Not always obvious but it is catching my attention a little bit - it may just be for me as I'm applying tome-mapping too which could be highlighting it more.

Still exploring your other tweaks, but overall stable release (101) for me.

Don't suppose you are a water shader expert too?

Cheers.
Preben
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Posted: 18th Dec 2016 20:44 Edited at: 18th Dec 2016 20:45
Quote: "gives me streaks from top left to bottom right of display"


I tried to display the bloom only renderimages set at 85: i made 3 the original shaders and the current (101,102) and a new based on a vertical run, a horizontal run, and a combined.
I dont see any streaks on any of them , could you try to make a screenshot ? , perhaps its something else ,lightray/sao ?

The original has a bit more blur, but other then that they look pretty mush the same.
The new VH approach is just as fast as the current, so if you prefer that let me know
best regards Preben Eriksen,

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granada
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Posted: 18th Dec 2016 21:29
Got to be worth the money just for the shaders for GG,plus updates .

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Preben
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Posted: 19th Dec 2016 12:00 Edited at: 19th Dec 2016 12:00
granada: at some point im still converting all my shaders over to GG still need to convert cel shader "cartoon" and the c64 and .....

cybernescence:
Quote: "Don't suppose you are a water shader expert too? "

I did make a water shader for GG Loader , if you have any suggestions/new stuff you like to see, let me know perhaps i can make it happen ?
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 19th Dec 2016 12:03
I really like the water shder for GG loader looks better than the GG water. Still testing some of the shaders out when I can.
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Preben
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Posted: 20th Dec 2016 12:45
Bored of the Rings: Sorry a new update again to test

* All reported bugs fixed,
* More easy to use post processing shaders, all combined into 1 post process shader including everything, so you just use defines for the different settings, more easy to maintain for me
* Added cel shader ( cartoon ). You can adjust how you like it using mainly "Surface level", "Brightness" , "Contrast" using the GG sliders.

My favorite setting, is the Pencil paper drawing style , like in the screenshot, yes you actually PLAY like this





You control how it looks using all the color sliders in GG , its actually pretty fun to play around with to get different results.
PS: Read the readme.txt file in the pack to enable cartoon.

Added the lastest version gameguru-shaders103.zip to www.daily3d.com


best regards Preben Eriksen,

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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 20th Dec 2016 12:51
no worries, I'll have a look at the latest as soon as possible.
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Preben
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2016 12:34
GameGuru DOWNGRADE: Yes GG have Tri-Planar rock terrain texturing that looks GREAT, but is a bit slow, Not even Unity has this ( unless you install a 3rd party extension ). So i decided to “downgrade” the terrain to unity standard to give YOU the option to select what kind of terrain you like to use , if you don’t have terrain with huge rock slopes you will not see any difference or your using a NIGHT scene, if you have big slopes you will see a stretch in the rock texture.

You decide do you want SPEED or a bit better looking terrain. its a simple setting

Every setting is now moved to a text file you can edit and select what you want “settings.fx”. You control everything from this file.

Everything is made in the standard shaders so there will be NO problem getting it working in standalone.

I tried to run The Big Escape using the normal shaders , and then using the new shaders WITH no changes to anything.
( TBE use medium setting , so this is medium settings ).



Here i just replaced the shaders, i did not do anything else , no LOD for more speed or anything.
Notice that the terrain rock is a bit more stretched ( but fast ). Also FXAA and lens flare is running but still 30% faster:



If you use "highest" setting you will see a greater speed improvements as normals also use tri-planar, so you save a few more texture reads.

Another update to the gameguru-shaders is coming soon ( the above rock terrain texturing, is not yet on www.daily3d.com ) until then:

Merry Christmas Everyone

best regards Preben Eriksen,

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 4th Jan 2017 16:56
Hi Preben, your improvements are amazing, what a guy! I tried to nab the 'gameguru-shaders103.zip' file from your site but could not find the link. Any chance of the URL so I can check it out and do a little drooling
PC SPECS: Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit, Intel Core i7-5930K (PASSMARK:13645), NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980 GPU (PASSMARK:9762) , 32GB RAM

Preben
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Posted: 5th Jan 2017 15:37
Quote: "Hi Preben, your improvements are amazing, what a guy! I tried to nab the 'gameguru-shaders103.zip' file from your site but could not find the link. Any chance of the URL so I can check it out and do a little drooling"

Sorry Lee, mister Bamber did not give me permission to make this public available (PM sent)

Version 105 was released and everything above is now available. Also this include changes to the dynamic light.

Looking for someone to help test the multiplayer shader fixes i made please read:
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/216373

best regards Preben Eriksen,
Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 5th Jan 2017 18:07
Hopefully Lee can include these shader fixes in GG.
Does the shader fixes include fixing this shader error in GG?

In the attached screen shot the bridge on the left is light mapped.
The bridge on the right is real time lighting and is not shadowed
correctly as compared to the light mapped bridge on the left.
Seems like there is a UV issue with the shadow on the right bridge.

The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.

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Preben
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 13:10
Hi Stab: https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/216937#msg2567183
best regards Preben Eriksen,
LeeBamber
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 13:13
The one of the right uses a BIAS offset so the shadow does not create pixel clash when rendered. I agree it's a little extreme in the shot you are showing, and I think this offset is perhaps best placed on a slider so you can adjust based on the geometry of your scene. The current default ensures shadows at a great distance don't flicker wildly, though I am sure there are newer techniques that overcome the issue of shadow map resolution over distance.
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 13:46
Quote: "The one of the right uses a BIAS offset so the shadow does not create pixel clash when rendered"


Which shader is this BIAS offset in?

Quote: "I agree it's a little extreme in the shot you are showing"


Yes it is! It appears on almost all the models and really makes the realtime lighting look bad.
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 14:03
Here is a link that may help fix the problem. Apparently the problem
is called Peter Panning. It also covers the other realtime shadow problem in GG
called Perspective Aliasing.

http://roar11.com/2015/05/dealing-with-shadow-map-artifacts/
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Preben
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 15:25
Hi Stab, this is going to generate tons of post so if we could continue with it in your bug report thread that would be great
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/216937

There is no peter panning in GG what your looking for is another bias , that you use to offset the current pixels depth.
in your case open entity_basic.fx and locate this line:
vShadowTexCoord.z -= 0.0003f + (fCurrentDepth/20000000.0f);
This is the bias your looking for , to move the shadow up a bit, lower this value 0.0003f , but perhaps we can find a smarter way to do this perhaps depending on the slope ? ... anyway messing with these bias nearly always give another artifact in another spot, but perhaps we can find a way
Lets try to fix it here: https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/216937
Would be great if you could make the small test level i mentioned, so we can use that as a basic.
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 16:49
Sorry, I posted here because Lee responded here.
The bug reports do not seem to get the attention.
Also, I thought you might not want this bug in your version of the shaders for AGK.
There is really no need to make a test level as it occurs just by using real time lighting on the default entities.
Lowering the BIAS value to 0.00009f has fixed that problem. Unfortunately there is another problem with
realtime lighting.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 18:39
Hi Stab, What is the problem with the shadows when you change it to 0.00009f? Do you see a solution that would solve it within the shader?
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 18:52
Changing it to 0.00009f so far does not seem to cause any problems and fixes the BIAS problem.
The other problem I am referring to is that the real time shadows are not very visible as seen in the attached screen shots.
The real time shadows should be at least as visible as the light mapped version.
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 19:32 Edited at: 6th Jan 2017 19:34
I battled with that one for over a year and have concluded my meager abilities cannot make the real-time render match the pre-bake render for all settings. The shaders are distinctly different, and even slight modifications in either approach break any attempt to match them up. I will be working on a graphics engine upgrade this year that will lean more towards a unified real-time shader that includes a drop of pre-baked lighting information (probably involving light probes) and ensuring a consistent render result across all setting options will be chief amongst my priorities when this work begins.



As you can see in this stock media mock-up above, you can make the shadows dark on both RT and PB but they do not exactly match up and most likely never will. I would plan any projects on the basis that you would use one or the other, and not allow your end user to toggle between them.
PC SPECS: Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit, Intel Core i7-5930K (PASSMARK:13645), NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980 GPU (PASSMARK:9762) , 32GB RAM

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 19:35
P.S. Feel free to tinker with the entity and static _basic shaders and let me know if you find a good solution or small fix that would address your concern in this area, hopefully one that does not have a knock-on effect of breaking something else - always a concern!
PC SPECS: Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit, Intel Core i7-5930K (PASSMARK:13645), NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980 GPU (PASSMARK:9762) , 32GB RAM

Preben
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Posted: 6th Jan 2017 23:04
Quote: "Changing it to 0.00009f so far does not seem to cause any problems and fixes the BIAS problem."

Yes it do fix it in your case , but when you lower it you will get artifacts on the other side of the objects "the light side" when using thin geometry, so if you could make a SMALL level just with the 2 objects that have this extreme wrong shadow it would be great
If you look in this thread you will see i was not able to reproduce it like in your level: https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/216937

I know how to fix it , you generate a dynamic bias that change from the light side of the object to the shadows side of the object, so if i had your extreme level i could just put it in there and test it myself , when i cant reproduce it i cant get the values i need and cant test it. i already made this in agk so i know it will work , but i also know that making a fixed bias like 0.00009f in your case WILL produce artifacts in other cases. It need to be dynamic.

Quote: "The real time shadows should be at least as visible as the light mapped version."


I believe i already fixed that , if you look in this screenshot the left side on the wall , the shadows are so bight that you cant see them , the fixed version on the right match the shadows on the ground. this problem was mainly with objects:



Quote: "Also, I thought you might not want this bug in your version of the shaders for AGK. "

It will be fixed if i can test it

Thanks for the help stab.

best regards Preben Eriksen,
Preben
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Posted: 7th Jan 2017 11:25 Edited at: 7th Jan 2017 11:27
Shadow problem has been fixed , this is the fix:


Added to the next shader pack update , read more here: https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/216937
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Pirate Myke
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Posted: 7th Jan 2017 14:50 Edited at: 7th Jan 2017 14:55
I have had the pleasure of testing out these shaders in Game Guru, and I am pleasantly surprised at the results so far.

The terrain looks much better at a distance with the tile distraction almost gone on it.

the lens flare is awesome and the DOF works pretty well. Noticing some patterned artifacts on objects, but that was there before i installed them. I was to distracted by the results I did not even notice about frame rate increases or decreases. Will retest these after I add the above code into the 2 shaders.

The cartoon shader is awesome and the controls in the metrics (tab tab) have a nice range of adjustments for it.
Pictures below.










Thank you for your hard work. Shaders are really needed for Game Guru.
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JackalHead
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Posted: 8th Jan 2017 03:53 Edited at: 8th Jan 2017 04:05
Yup there cool, Its funny how one guy can do what a team cannot in years. Those look much better then whats in GG. Which is just sad really... I my self wont be buying them as Im not about to pay more money for a product just to have features that should already be in said product, but good job none the less.
"So let it be written; so let it be done." Account got messed up with introduction to steam. I am Jackal
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 8th Jan 2017 04:43 Edited at: 8th Jan 2017 04:46
Quote: " Its funny how one guy can do what a team cannot in years."


The team (Game Guru developer) is one guy, btw. And actually, he's done this before. Or at least he's come pretty close.
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Preben
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 10:49 Edited at: 9th Jan 2017 10:49
Pirate Myke: Wow thats a impressive level your doing there ( The DOF artifacts looks like they are coming from Light Rays , try disable lightrays ).

JackalHead: Dont get this wrong , Lee did MOST of the shader code so he's the real GURU , im just changing Lee's code to make it a bit better, and sure adding my own shader code i converted from my GG Loader shaders

Lee dont have the freedom to just make changes to the shaders , like i do , if Lee make a change and release , IT might break a game released on steam to thousand of users, so Lee need to test , test and test again and make sure all visuals are exactly as people expect them to be ( good or bad ).

If i make shader changes , people that download my pack expect something new so i can poke around in the code as a wish. and people can always revert back to the original shaders if they find something they dont like. Just saying there is a huge difference.

I had some luck getting my shader pack into a released GameGuru steam game , so im pretty excited to see if any shader stuff pop up or its just running , so far no problems
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Preben
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 11:29
Huge light/shadow update coming.

This is a complicated scene , if you look at the screenshot it has baked light and shadows , and it have a dynamic shadow ( barrel ). This use the default lightmap settings so the baked shadows quality could be better , but STILL your "nearly" not able to see if its a baked or dynamic shadow they mix together perfectly. The second screenshot display the terrain with a baked shadow and a dynamic mixed together, can you spot what is baked and what is dynamic



Im still waiting for feedback on the latest changes before release:
1. Shader fix for multiplayer, a shader bug poped up and you got disconnected. ( hope this version fix it ).
2. The new light shadows changes.

If you already have the shader pack and want to help test the latest version , give me a PM for a download link

best regards Preben Eriksen,

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 13:42
Looking much better.

As for the artifacts on my screen shots, I am not using the light rays at all. I am thinking that this might be coming from the SAO sliders from GG.
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz, 2400 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s), 8gb RAM, Nvidia gtx660, Windows 7 Pro 64bit, Screen resolution 1680 x 1050.

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