Product Chat / Feature Vote!

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RickV
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 09:38
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GameGuru Community Vote is now live!

Please feedback so we know what you'd like to see developed next.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 13:04
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Wow, that was fast! I wasn't expecting it for another week or two.
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Bisella
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 13:47
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i'm so confused

Bots to navigate stairs / heights - feature score 284.....why?....right now all characters can not climb stairs or walk on floors far from the ground , forcing the user to create levels only at ground level.

I had to stop all my work because the characters do not walk up stairs or multiple levels or inside buildings .

however , I think that all the features mentioned are important .

I'm not here to criticize , because I love game guru .
I think that to make a good game engine you have to look to those who have already made ​​game engine like ...
UDK , Unity , CryEngine , S2ENGINE HD Game Engine and many other

An old teacher always told me ..... "good copy is better than inventing worse"

forgive my english
The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender
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synchromesh
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 13:53 Edited at: 15th Jul 2015 13:54
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Quote: "Bots to navigate stairs / heights - feature score 284.....why?"


It appears that other features are more important to others ..... Everyone wants AI initially and then they realise they prefer other features first when they can see a list ... its difficult keeping everyone happy as you can see ..
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 14:25
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I was a little surprised at the results so far, but then that's the way a democracy goes! You can't always like the results, but you have to respect the means of getting there. The board is brand new, so I'm sure as more people view it and those who have already voted realize other features they didn't notice, some of those point spreads will narrow, and likely change order. A few of those features could already be done in Lua (by someone much more skilled than I), and others are just a couple Lua commands away from being feasible. It will be interesting to see how it changes.
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 14:49
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Crafting/trading is so high on the list...
Not sure, if it makes sense, how u save your progress (all crafted, traded things), when there's no option to save and load.

I hope the devs not only look on the voting list.
Crafting/trading is useless if u can not save your progress...
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 15:17 Edited at: 15th Jul 2015 15:20
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Quote: "I hope the devs not only look on the voting list.
Crafting/trading is useless if u can not save your progress... "


And this is why Lee was doing the features in an order that made sense to the programmers. Maybe not to us but there was a reason for it... The Vote is a good idea but I can see things being implemented back to front but majority rules ..
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snowdog
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 15:20
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Am REALLY surprised that a Save/Load system is so low on the list.
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 15:26
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Quote: "Am REALLY surprised that a Save/Load system is so low on the list. "


So many others to choose from ....I guess many think it can wait till they have better features..

Physically Based Rendering
Unlimited Dynamic Lights
Crafting / Trading
Third Person Mode for any character
Day & Night system
Bots to navigate stairs / heights

These seem pretty constant at the top ..... Its quite a good list I would like to see I admit .

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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 16:28
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I'm not surprised by the results so far. Let's face it GG is aimed at non programmers in the main, so many will not see that lot's of options here could be scripted with a couple of commands added. The recent Humble Bundle deal will have seen those numbers rise considerably. The sheer number of options here will cause possible confusion and also possible apathy as people scroll quickly through to select ones they like the look of rather than reading each description separately. Many will read through but many more will probably vote for obvious things. I have stuck to my guns and voted for speed and AI issues, although there are many (too many) options I would like to see.

Hopefully the votes are still low and will change over the next week or so. How can occlusion not be higher? Is it just me that finds rendering the entire scene at all times unpalatable? Or is it that people don't know what it does and so select obvious things? I know speed is being worked on as I type and will probably be a fair bit better next update, but still, scenes that use massive areas of the map will still struggle because of the sheer amount of data to be rendered. I often get down to 20 fps on any moderately sized level at points as there is no way to avoid looking at a part of the map which is populated into the distance and beyond.

I think once Speed is up to scratch and AI is working as it should, many people will start being more enthusiastic towards GG.


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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 16:47 Edited at: 15th Jul 2015 16:48
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My personnel opinion is to have let the programmers stay on the path they had, they are the one that truly know what is feasible right now and what will require months to bring in.

Make the core of the engine Multi core capable, then update to higher version or Direct x, finish all the current features added, then start adding in. Once the core stuff is finished, most of the rest will be self implemented.

***** this is my personal opinion and not the opinion of GameGuru. Do not bash them for my thoughts.*****
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 17:34 Edited at: 15th Jul 2015 20:17
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In regards to the AI using slops and stairs; I think this is an issue everyone has at some point faced. I understand there is great complexity to getting this part of the AI to work and it will take quite some time to implement. If we do consider navmesh, we could possibly add a new trigger zone called "Path Zone"? Using an auto navgen system each time we test a level would take forever. I however cannot suggest any better way of doing this; Lee is the genius not me lol

Also a lot of those features listed can be done by expanding on the LUA commands. Pretty much all of the Vehicles can be done with a few more FPE controls and a few new LUA commands. I've successfully made an XP system so that is another thing that can be completely done in LUA currently.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 18:22
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All I can say is is surprised with the results. Load&Save? Still I am having a lot of fun with GG, I still have so much to learn.
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The Next
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 18:28
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Performance work has been excluded from the voting list as this is currently being worked on for the next set of updates.
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Teabone
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 18:43
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I do like this style of voting more by the way. The priority level based on needs, rather than a yes or no.
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3com
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 18:48
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Both, here and in real life, one thing is what you want, and another thing is what you have to do.

Much respect the decision of each voter, and I also want many things such as, entities operating at any level (a building perhaps?), Save and load standalone game. I know it makes no sense to save/load considering many things missing, but if you have a feature as standalone and you can not use properly, then what you want it?

I also want:
All settings To have equivalent commands LUA
Event Scripting System

Many of you already know that I want "AssociatePlayer" lua command.
And many other things.

What we really should do:
Just what Mike said.

They are just my thoughts.

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perelect
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 20:03
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Hi,
It would be good to have an expected development timeline for each voting options.
As this would also influence my voting decision.

ie: if Unlimited Dynamic Lights would take 2 months of development time to be implemented, and say the Save & Load Progress would take 1 week to implemented. This would effect my voting decision.

I think Lee stated that he could do the Water at different heights in half a day, so a quick one like this would defiantly be at the top of the list for me.

Cheers.
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smallg
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 20:26 Edited at: 15th Jul 2015 20:27
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@perelect it would be nice but i can't see that happening, people would complain if things aren't done as quickly as guessed at.

personally i would just like to see any new stuff added given full lua support as we go (i dont really mind which features or functions are added or in which order), there's so much stuff we can do ourselves if we're given more control but a lot of it is simply missed out, forgotten about or hard coded (mouse feedback, ammo count, custom scripts in multiplayer, local rotation on objects and object rotation feedback, player rotation, more than 1 image, collision detection feedback so we can tell if 2 objects are hitting, bullet code so it's not just at the player & plenty more - and that's just from the stuff that we have already, there will be more as new features are added)

Quote: "a lot of those features listed can be done by expanding on the LUA commands"

indeed, let's hope people will vote for scripting even if they can't script, it opens up so many doors.

i do want to see performance improve a lot first though.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 21:55 Edited at: 15th Jul 2015 22:18
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Quote: "I think Lee stated that he could do the Water at different heights in half a day,"


Well if that was top of the list and Lee did it in ( a few days including testing to be sure )
then you would have a very quick release I guess. Or Lee may think he could do the second and maybe third on the list as well within a reasonable time for a release ...

IMHO ...don't play with the sliders ...pick the feature you really want and move it to the top... It makes a big difference to that feature rather than bits and bobs ....
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!nullptr
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Posted: 15th Jul 2015 23:05 Edited at: 15th Jul 2015 23:10
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Quote: "I'm not surprised by the results so far. Let's face it GG is aimed at non programmers in the main, so many will not see that lot's of options here could be scripted with a couple of commands added"

The list has surprised me somewhat and this can be the only plausible reason for it. And I agree there is irony in that half the list is doable by 3rd parties if only an extensive LUA set was available.

What was Lee's Brighton convention presentation going to be about? User generated content?

EDIT: And I agree with smallg's assessment completely. Get the existing command set made available to LUA and for every new option thereafter the command is also made available.

Let the magic happen.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 01:28 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 01:41
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Quote: "IMHO ...don't play with the sliders ...pick the feature you really want and move it to the top... It makes a big difference to that feature rather than bits and bobs ...."


That's a good point. I think I will go back and reassess my vote.


EDIT: Done! That helped the Lua commands along quite a bit, thank you very much!
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 02:33 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 03:38
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Quote: "I'm not surprised by the results so far. Let's face it GG is aimed at non programmers in the main"

Non Artists don't have a clue either. When I looked just now physically based rendering is sitting at the top... Looks awesome right? but physically accurate material definitions isn't something you just throw into the engine and your good to go. Games using PBR tend to use it on all assets not just a few here and there where you want it and those need baked maps specifically for PBR. You may find all those models you have currently in your inventory outdated in one swoop unless TGC and Artists want to update their content to use it

Guess I would need to get used to calling my diffuse an Albedo map. Just a thought.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 03:33
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lol.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 04:10 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 04:51
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Seriously though Myke, PBR is something that sells a top graphics engine with a small demo level to show it off....you know?... the engine uneducated kids tend to believe they would be better off using to achieve their dream of creating that game that looks next gen....only to find they can't do it without a team of professional Artists to create the media.
Who came up with this idea for an easy to use game engine? I don't believe we are going see many games created in GameGuru which uses it, so it seems a more educated description of what it is and how it is achieved might help users to decide if it is truly going to benefit them before voting. It might well turn out that suitable assets will very scarce, never mind enough to create a full game.
I reckon it might work out but its not something that's going to be usable right off, more something that should be carefully considered and planned for before expecting it to be used straight out of the box.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 04:41
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You are all to right as always Rolfy. That's why I can chuckle when you tell it straight up.
Thank you.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 04:42
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I'm surprised resolution settings aren't on that list, but what surprises me more is that the essential RPG features score lower; considering that everyone here wants to make the next Skyrim.
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 05:15
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Everybody has there priorities. Now you see the troubles the programmers run into when trying to make it all work.
And planning on what should be next.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 06:04
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@Pirate Myke Gotcha, I can definitely wait for some of those good features in the poll. Sliding's pretty awesome but I'd rather a save system over that.
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HarryWever
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 08:38 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 08:43
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Quote: "Everybody has there priorities. Now you see the troubles the programmers run into when trying to make it all work.
And planning on what should be next."


absolutely true..
I turns just now only two sliders across. Occlusion and lua.
speed is important, and Lee is working on the speed, so for me that includes occlusion.
I think that will crank everything up and get more speed.
And Speed and assets is nothing without control.
The rest. i think the team knows the best what to implement at time.

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MooKai
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 08:40
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I don't need RPG features, not my type of game. So, yes, it's low priority for me
But if everybody wants it next, it's ok, I can live with the voting results.
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DVader
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 08:40 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 08:42
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Quote: "Non Artists don't have a clue either"


I quite agree, although I am not a great 3D artist (just a jack of all trades who happens to be a okay at art) I appreciate your point, but lets not have an argument on artists and coders, I was merely making the point of people who know what much of this means before they read the descriptions, be they coder, artist or just well informed. I have not voted for PBR. Sounds great, but knowing some of the technicalities of this being implemented I realise it sounds way better than it will turn out to be; Especially as all current media would have to be updated to work properly. For me, if AI didn't drive me mad on most occasions(I had to vote on that), I would be all for the performance boosts. Despite what was said earlier regarding performance, there are many options listed that sound very useful in that regard

As I stated earlier the list is great, if a little long winded for all but the most keen and patient users.


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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 08:46
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Just a word of advice for everyone using the voting system.

Instead of weakening your current votes, if you REALLY want to see a feature come to light, then, drop all of your other sliders to 'Not Interested' and move that one slider to 'Urgent'. It will make it a very powerful vote. Just select one item you really want and leave the form to do the rest.

Cheers

Jay.




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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 08:48
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thanks for the advice, will do that.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 08:57
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Hi,

Sorry, no offense, it's another one!

Greetings!
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 10:02
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The current results are quite promising. Pretty much the top 3 I was hoping for are up there.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 10:21
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Quote: "The current results are quite promising. Pretty much the top 3 I was hoping for are up there."


Im kind of looking around the top 10 .... if they stay constant then with all those features added GG will be a huge improvement and with the top feature actually getting done each time it shouldn't take long ....well that's my theory
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 10:23 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 10:24
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yes looking better, although i fear a costly process for me as the lua commands come the store fills with scripts that were promised with the software and then put to the bottom by tgc. not everyone is as generous as small g. not a dig as you have the rights like with models. just you scripters got thousands and i mean thousands of free models, multitudes to be exact. with game guru. i had to pay for a lot of my scripts already. so a monopoly is developing due to scripting is the tricky one for many. and tgcs lack of scripts develops a market for needed scripts which were supposed to come and have not. if it were not for small g i would of walked. as to when was the scripts promised. it was when everyone jumped on the language bandwagon, and i put up a fight to keep the old system. that was when i was told on the blogs you will have hundreds of scripts to go with it. i am waiting still.

where are the thousands of free scripts promised?

end rant
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 10:30
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Quote: "where are the thousands of free scripts promised?"


Really ?
Actually promised ...
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science boy
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 10:38 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 11:33
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well the wording was simillar i think it was more near hundreds of scripts, or more to the point i was assured i would not be needing to worry about scripts, and i am working on that one as i am making my point known x


Quote: "A final note addressing Reloaded ease of use. We are designing the software so that scripting by no means a requirement of the creative process. In fact, I expect only around 5% of users should ever need to break out into the world of scripting. The remaining 95% will find the combination of entity properties, sliders for in-game adjustment and level configuration more than sufficient to create a unique experience for your users. The scripting is there for those brave souls brazen enough to think they can create better scripts than TGC Rest assured that we will provide a wide variety of LUA scripts, assigned by default to relevant assets, dealing with all the game functionalties you require from opening a locked door, to commanding a battalion of soldiers to follow you into hell. You only have to look at our history of products to know that 'ease of use' is one of the goals we constantly strive for, and we understand that many of you have no desire to program, and why you use FPSC in the first place.

What's Next

You will want to know what happens now. What is the decision! For this I will need to create one or two prototypes, principally to test how the integration into the main Reloaded engine will be, and also to check whether the performance benefits are worth the transition. I also want to study the existing FPI language (which has doubled in size since the modders took over) and understand the scope of maintaining and/or moving it to a more internal engine that can process at higher speeds.

Aside from the professional reasons, I also want time to play with the LUA syntax and get a feel for how it might work inside the Reloaded universe, and whether it is a good fit. LUA is not the only scripting language out there, and my researches might turn up something newer and more shiny! I also promise to try and resist the urge to create a new language for the occasion
"


just to save you from perusing the blogs, this was when i battled to save me from lua and failed due to lots of people pushing lua, not a major rant just pointing out that before fpsc reloaded was released there was a battle and i was assured i would not be needing many scripts at all... now i am not sure.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 11:56
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There are so many fantastic ideas here, I realy hope that just about all of them are introduced into GG at some time, it will make it a great game creation tool.

I also agree with Pirate Myke
Quote: "My personnel opinion is to have let the programmers stay on the path they had, they are the one that truly know what is feasible right now and what will require months to bring in."


But it is also good to hear what people are wanting in GG at the moment. One of my favourites was the 'Physically Based Rendering'. This was something I asked about a while ago, it would make textures come alive.
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 20:19 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 20:20
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I hope with the new LUA commands we get working script examples (applied to entities) in stock. While its awesome we have many contributors to the store for scripts, I think a lot of basic scripts should come as stock to give some general idea of how to use the various LUA commands with GG.
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rolfy
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 20:54
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Quote: "you scripters got thousands and i mean thousands of free models, multitudes to be exact. with game guru. i had to pay for a lot of my scripts already. so a monopoly is developing due to scripting is the tricky one for many."
This is a very good point and with AI in particular taking a bashing I would have thought that TGC would have been keen to provide good working scripts as default, after all, they write the engine so should be able to script a decent AI and we aren't seeing that.

I may have come across as bashing non Artists above but that isn't the intention, I wanted to add to the list in expecting certain features to suddenly improve graphic quality. PBR would be one feature which would draw new users without knowledge into believing this is some kind of standard graphic quality, in the same way as Unreal is recommended by individuals as having 'better' graphics. Truth is it can only be used with related media and there is none available for GG at this time, it is a feature aimed at studios and teams, not one man indie developers. I am not against it (quite the opposite) I just don't think it would be usable for most and a waste of time at this point when there are more important features needed which would benefit users right now. The descriptions require more attention really so users can make more informed choices
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DVader
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 21:05
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Wow, science boy considering how many models are on the store compared to scripts... That seems a very biased view. There are many, many scripts available for free on these forums, so I can't really see your issue. Many coders have no clue or inclination to use a 3D package either yet they still need media and apart from free stuff have to pay the same as everyone else.

I knew nothing about Lua before I got Reloaded (apart from it was a scripting system used for some games, I remembered it being mentioned in reference to DB Pro) I have picked it up from examples provided and occasionally looking at the lua reference files for info. So it is quite possible to learn without more examples.


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rolfy
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Posted: 16th Jul 2015 21:42 Edited at: 16th Jul 2015 21:51
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Quote: "Wow, science boy considering how many models are on the store compared to scripts... That seems a very biased view. There are many, many scripts available for free on these forums, so I can't really see your issue. Many coders have no clue or inclination to use a 3D package either yet they still need media and apart from free stuff have to pay the same as everyone else."


He may have worded it better but has a point where TGC have been adding constantly to media but very little to available scripts. not all purchasers are going to visit the forums for user created scripts and more should be included with the product. Unless the idea of 'easy to use without coding knowledge' is forgotten now.

I don't see why they couldn't pay someone like smallg (or even yourself) a fee to create some for inclusion.
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Posted: 17th Jul 2015 00:08 Edited at: 17th Jul 2015 00:19
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@ DVADER, no offence meant, and as rolfy says i am not too tactful. i am a blunt person at times without realising it, my main issue is we at the moment have no choice if we want to develop things, we have to either pester small g or buy on top of what we have, that was my point, leaving a lot of people with silly amounts of free models (that i hardly need), but others do so that is good, they have to make do with minimal scripts.. the point is i am not wanting to pester scripters for this and that all the time i am a busy guy as many are and i have less time to learn a language, and when i was told in the quotes of hardly any scripting will be needed do i find now we are relying on good intentions or delving into pockets, scripts i am finding are very expensive as i saw one guy selling a script for 15 dollars, when i could get a few packs for that etc, average is 4 to 8 dollars, now it is up to the individual but then we would have a very boring game set, if we were penniless. my point being we got 4 dlc packs with media abundance free with gg, and we got huge amounts with the original and we now have character creator so that is huge for none modellers and it looks like building creator is coming along, so model wise i think all are sorted, what has tgc given us script wise? a few basic scripts. and reliance on the store and small g bless him. this was not a modellers vs scripters it was a come on tgc i spent a fortune and now we look like store scripts will delay the free ones for if they are there then no rush. and so on and so forth, and i think as i have shown lees actual blog with the assured, and yet everything but the scripts is happening, think a tad unfair, that we are put in a place where we have to either buy or pester a busy guy. no offence meant here guys just reminding tgc and i see where this is all leading and what i see will not be happening ie the assured scripts materializing. and i totally agree with rolfy dvader and small g should join tgc and push them scripts out
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Posted: 17th Jul 2015 01:11 Edited at: 17th Jul 2015 01:47
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Theres a lot on there I would love to see added very quickly, but I know thats not going to happen. As all the coders want coding priority. Im no coder. I want GG to be what it was ment to be and that is and easy game creator. There for a quest creator buildings creator, inventory system and saving etc is at the top of my list. If I wanted to code I would be using an engine that has been around the block for a while and that is Unity. If this just becomes another got to code everything to make a good game then its just another Unity, Torque, etc. Theres already plenty of those around for coders to play with. Im hoping this engine is a none coders White Knight.

Things I would love to see added soon

1. Quest Generator
2 The ability to talk to NPCS
3. More Shaders with reflective mapping
4. Inventory system
5. Buildings creator
6. Easy import of custom animated characters
7. Weapon creator
8. Save/Load
9. Hud Editor
10. Game Map
11. default scripts for common game mechanics

With the above a none coder could actually make a game instead of having to pay for coders to make something for them. Not to mention if a none coder could do this from the get go and make a simple game then GG would get better ratings on steam... Thats my two cents on the subject and Im sure all other none coders agree with at least part of it.
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MooKai
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Posted: 17th Jul 2015 07:40
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Well, yes I agree.
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science boy
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Posted: 17th Jul 2015 12:22
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Quote: "With the above a none coder could actually make a game instead of having to pay for coders to make something for them. Not to mention if a none coder could do this from the get go and make a simple game then GG would get better ratings on steam... Thats my two cents on the subject and Im sure all other none coders agree with at least part of it."


agree totally
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 18th Jul 2015 03:23
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Just my 2 cents, but consider this: Perhaps the limitation on scripts that are included with GG is due to the fact that the available commands are as limited as they are. Many of the features on the list can and probably will ultimately be accomplished via scripting vs. being hard-coded. When the necessary commands are available, some of the "scripting gurus" around here may and probably will come up with many of those features even before TGC includes them in the engine. They may charge for them, of course, or they may offer them for free. Either way, the commands will be necessary BEFORE those features are even possible, even if they are provided by TGC.

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Posted: 18th Jul 2015 11:19
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save\load.. save\load.. save\load.. save\load.. save\load.. save\load.. save\load.. save\load.. save\load.. save\load.. Pleaseeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

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