Product Chat / GameGuru MAX Alpha Build 3 Released!

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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 09:50
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@GraPhix - Sigh. Installing the 32-bit versions of the VS C++ Redistributables did not work. I installed, restarted the PC, ran MAX alpha 3, and got the same error as originally posted. Now, I had only installed 2015, 2017, and 2019 package (one download). Did I need to do 2013 or any of the others, too?
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 10:07
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looking at the runtimes i think Lee is using VS2017 so as long as x86 and x64 runtimes are installed the dependences are there.

Are your .NET frameworks up to date too ?
When you goto windows update on your PC goto advanced and make sure this option is on and check for updates, but please DO NOT install
'Feature update to Windows 10, version 2004'


if it is offered to you 90% of PC's break when this is installed major egg on chin for Microsoft ATM.

this option needs to be on Windows will then check for 'other' updates
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 10:11 Edited at: 24th Jun 2020 10:12
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I have Windows 10, version 2004 installed and alpha 3 runs for me. Here is a screenshot of the redistribs / frameworks installed on my PC.

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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 10:12 Edited at: 24th Jun 2020 10:19
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these are the runtimes i have installed :


@Bored Of The Rings 2004 came with a bad rep, not sure if any of this has been fixed but if it works for you you are lucky
https://www.ghacks.net/2020/05/28/windows-10-version-2004-is-here-and-it-has-lots-of-issues/
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 10:17
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Quote: "Max1 and 2 were still 32 bit."

Actually Alpha 2 was also a 64 bit binary
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 10:18
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Thanks for the update info. With the advanced option checked, several of my runtimes were updated ... 2003, 2005, etc. However, even after a restart alpha 3 did not run. Same error.
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 10:23 Edited at: 24th Jun 2020 10:30
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Yes, I thought I'd take my chances with 2004 and had some issues, but fixed em. Luckily my brother does work for MS.
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 10:23
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awsome
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 10:35
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My Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributables look like this currently:

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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 11:20
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180-190 fps on my Laptop.
I love this!
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 11:31
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works also at my PC at work, a I7 with inbuild HD Graphics 4600 .
Has only 10 FPS, but this is not the right test equipment .
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winalot
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 13:23 Edited at: 24th Jun 2020 18:13
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As Solo Design reported, I too just get a white screen that sits there indefinitely. The screen disappears if you 'window' it.
(with alpha 2, the screen disappeared automatically after about 10 seconds or so of it own accord - I don't know it this is useful info but maybe it will tell you something ?? )
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 13:38
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@Lee i have tried to resolve the issue with Argent Arts to no avail installing VS .NET etc what i have found is the actual error message well a bit more detail it is 'STATUS_INVALID_IMAGE_FORMAT' which is either a missing DLL or the wrong 'bitness' i.e. 32bit but should be 64bit or vice versa.
Are you targeting x64 when compiling or 'Any Cpu' ?
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 21:12
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40-50 fps

Had one crash but that was probably because I was dicking around with the toolbar before I ventured down the stairs.
Second time round I had no crashes.

104773 : Runtime Error: 501 : Image Number 65124 () S:135MB V: (2061,0)
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DVader
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 22:40
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@Agent Arts have you tried Wicked itself and does it have the same issues? Thankfully I've had no issues with Max, apart from occasionally it fails to run 9 times out of ten though it does. Wicked ran for for me, but needed VS 2018 or 2019 (not 100% sure now lol) to run. I've had both 32 bit and 64 bit version compiled.

Just looked at your specs, Max is probably just jealous of your ram levels Not sure anyone else testing it has 128 gig of ram? Just a thought. you wouldn't think that would be an issue, but you are definitely trying to future proof yourself there ;p
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JC LEON
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 23:28
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it worked for me with 64bg of ram
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DVader
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 00:05
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@Jc Leon. Well that's also well future proof! But 128 gig is a rarity I imagine. I got 16 gig as a stop gap, but been a long one lol, always something else needed. Thankfully for most needs is fine anyway.
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 01:14 Edited at: 25th Jun 2020 01:27
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@DVader

Quote: "@Agent Arts have you tried Wicked itself and does it have the same issues? Thankfully I've had no issues with Max, apart from occasionally it fails to run 9 times out of ten though it does. Wicked ran for for me, but needed VS 2018 or 2019 (not 100% sure now lol) to run. I've had both 32 bit and 64 bit version compiled."


I have not, but I did run GameGuru MAX alpha 2, which was just The Wicked Engine running the Cellar Demo, wasn't it? And it ran fine. I'll go check out Wicked on its own, though, and report back.

Quote: "Just looked at your specs, Max is probably just jealous of your ram levels Not sure anyone else testing it has 128 gig of ram? Just a thought. you wouldn't think that would be an issue, but you are definitely trying to future proof yourself there ;p"


I can't see any possible reason that more RAM would cause an issue. Part of the reason I have this much RAM is because of the 3D work I do. The other part is, well, I just had to. RAM was at a very good price back when I built this system.

Quote: "@Jc Leon. Well that's also well future proof! But 128 gig is a rarity I imagine. I got 16 gig as a stop gap, but been a long one lol, always something else needed. Thankfully for most needs is fine anyway."


Not as rare as you'd think. Not in the 3D industry. There are plenty of boards out there that support 128GB RAM ... and, now, even boards that support 256GB!

EDIT:

Downloaded both The Wicked Engine Editor and Tests. Both run perfectly on my system. GGMAX alpha 3 still does not run and spits out the same error as originally reported.
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 11:30 Edited at: 25th Jun 2020 11:35
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If Alpha 2 ran fine then 3 should also but obviously there is something that this build does not like or your system does not like . You Know the Gui runs from alpha 1 and Wicked runs from alpha 2 ... But together something is amiss.

Do you have onboard GFX you could switch to, just to see what happens there.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 11:57
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and if you have the below dlls, you can rule out dll issue:

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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 12:56
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Quote: "Do you have onboard GFX you could switch to, just to see what happens there."


Actually, my motherboard does not support onboard video. So, sadly, no.

Quote: "and if you have the below dlls, you can rule out dll issue:"


I have all those and more.
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 14:54
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Its a weird one for sure.
Perhaps, just perhaps Alpha 4 may run without issue. That would be strange but welcome .
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 15:08 Edited at: 25th Jun 2020 15:10
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@Argent_Arts
Last stab in the dark here ... Kind of a soft safe mode but right now its all i got

Start Task manager ( ctrl- Alt Delete ) -> select startup > disable everything listed in the startup file. Reboot the system.
If it runs now then your problem is in the startup file. You now need to go through the process of enabling startup files one by one until you find the cause.
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 15:11 Edited at: 25th Jun 2020 15:12
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Quote: "Its a weird one for sure.
Perhaps, just perhaps Alpha 4 may run without issue. That would be strange but welcome ."


Yeah, GraPhix looked at my system yesterday and could not detect the issue. However, he thought that perhaps the issue could be on Lee's end - a 32-bit call to a 64-bit DLL or vice versa. The strange thing is that I seem to be the only one with this issue. And, as pointed out, Alpha 1 runs, Alpha 2 runs, and The Wicked Engine editor and tests run on my PC. I've not had an issue with any games, including the latest and greatest, and work with both 2D graphics and 3D modeling software. I also have several other 3D game engines installed (Unreal, S2 Engine HD, Skyline) and have used others in the past (Gadot, Unity) and none of them have given me any issues. So, with all of that, I would tend to lean on this being an issue of some kind with Alpha 3.

EDIT:

Quote: "@Argent_Arts
Last stab in the dark here ... Kind of a soft safe mode but right now its all i got

Start Task manager ( ctrl- Alt Delete ) -> select startup > disable everything listed in the startup file. Reboot the system.
If it runs now then your problem is in the startup file. You now need to go through the process of enabling startup files one by one until you find the cause. "


I may have to wait for the weekend to try this. I've got work to do and I can't put it off. Thanks for trying to help with this, though,.
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Posted: 25th Jun 2020 15:15
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The alternative involves a lot of work on your part, I did it with alpha 2 and that's why I know it.
The idea is to recreate the scene in GGMax, and test the map and see what happens.
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Posted: 26th Jun 2020 21:41 Edited at: 26th Jun 2020 21:53
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@Agent Arts. Yeah the memory thing was just a thought, probably not a thing in this day and age. I do remember having issues with too much ram in the past though I even had more ram than the O/S could address back in the Pentium days with several O/S's in succession, lol. Spec wise your system should have no worries. There is either a very strange hardware conflict or more likely it's some software issue.

Just about to give this alpha a test myself. Wasn't going to bother as it's still pretty un-useful, but may as well check it works

Yepp working here. It's pretty basic at the mo so I wouldn't worry too much about this apha. Certainly wouldn't spend ages in getting it working! You can see it from Wicked if you really want to, there's literally no difference in how it runs.
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Posted: 26th Jun 2020 21:54
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Something did just occur to me even though we have seen a video of Alpha 1 with VR in action.
VR should look amazing in Wicked, imagine the cellar demo with the zombie
Dont know why but i was still thinking the old look ..
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DVader
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Posted: 27th Jun 2020 03:53
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Most of us are probably not VR equipped, so, nice as it is for those who can afford such fancy toys, the majority of us are not really that fussed with VR abilities.

I get the feeling TGC think this is a big selling point. It is, sort of, but at the moment, for the majority of gamer's, it's a minor plus. Nice to have, but is still way from being remotely affordable for the average user. Unless VR helmets get down to more joystick type prices we will always be waiting for the big VR revolution.

I'm more concerned with it's ability to make games Of any sort. VR ones being a bonus in my eyes.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 27th Jun 2020 08:31
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Yes, especially when GG was originally written in DB a lot could have been added originally. A lot of faffing about with voting systems didn't help at the time.
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Posted: 27th Jun 2020 11:34
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The more DB features de more to be converted to c++ later on.
And maybe most of them are not so easy to integrate on.
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Posted: 27th Jun 2020 18:30
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"A lot of faffing about with voting systems didn't help at the time. "

Since the voting board was abandoned years ago-- practically no features
have been added. Probably MAX took over anyhow.

==============================================================
"And maybe most of them are not so easy to integrate on."

Seems like since DB had already enacted a conversion procedure, that would
make it already accomplished?! Into Lua if required would be ? IDK?
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Posted: 27th Jun 2020 20:19
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Erm actually gubby, since the voting board was removed some of the biggest features we have were added, dx11, pbr ebe.

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Posted: 27th Jun 2020 20:33
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Quote: "Erm actually gubby, since the voting board was removed some of the biggest features we have were added, dx11, pbr ebe."

Agreed, The voting board went in about 2017 so you werent really around back then to see it all.
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Posted: 28th Jun 2020 04:15
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True, in 2 years very little. Honestly I don't like to be the snarky one,
but graciously dx11, pbr aren't really features- and seems a little
overboard for a 32 bit engine. But I just watched "The Finest Hours"
so I don't want to be too grumpy about it.
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Posted: 30th Jun 2020 00:51 Edited at: 30th Jun 2020 02:17
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Quote: "dx11, pbr aren't really features- and seems a little overboard for a 32 bit engine"


Well, I'd disagree a little there. DX11 has really upped GG's speed and capabilities from the DX9 version overall. It has made some things worse (video playback as an example) but overall GG is a transformed engine compared to the DX9 version now. I've never been massively impressed with the PBR stuff, but it was added alongside the DX11 update and is what it is. We can still use DNS if we prefer it or want to keep memory usage down. I've yet to see an example of PBR use that blows the old DNS stuff away though.

Whatever their value, they are features.

Oh may as well post this while I'm here It was requested a while back and although I can't release the demo I can release a vid
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Posted: 30th Jun 2020 15:30
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Wow! Whatever you did DVader- that vid looked so 3-D!
Must have been the camera - pan - rotation method that MAX demo presents.
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Posted: 30th Jun 2020 17:43
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A good example of why the default classic content isn't being ported over :p

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Posted: 30th Jun 2020 19:59 Edited at: 30th Jun 2020 23:41
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Quote: "A good example of why the default classic content isn't being ported over :p "

Actually i dont think it means a lot . No real time shadows that I can see , no idea if its using any shaders but it has no lighting at all like the cellar demo. Doesnt look like much rendering there, More like an editor view.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 14:58
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@Argent_Arts : I noticed in your redist list, the singular 2017 redist was missing. See mine:



Maybe hunt down that redist and install it, it may contain a DLL version that is required by the GameGuruMAX.exe. Also, if you can find it, try running DEPENDS.EXE on the executable too, as it will show you which DLLS are available, but also if the DLL versions match up too.
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 15:02
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@Argent_Arts: Also ,here is the link for dependency walker if you want to use it:

https://www.dependencywalker.com/
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 15:17 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 15:20
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@Bored of the Rings - Thanks, but I'd downloaded it previously and even had posted a screen shot of what it showed in this thread.

@Lee - I'd installed the Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributables 2015-2019. Isn't that supposed to include what is needed for 2017?

EDIT - Just in case, I downloaded the 2017 version of the redistributables, both x86 and 64-bit. When I tried to install them, the installation failed stating that they (or an equivalent) were already installed. I'm guessing that's due to the 2015-2019 installation.
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 17:16 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 17:49
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Quote: "No real time shadows that I can see , no idea if its using any shaders but it has no lighting at all like the cellar demo."

Now this is more what i expected to see from GG assets. I wasnt expecting " Astounding " but not as bad as it seemed.

The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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winalot
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 18:36 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 18:36
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Hello

I am in the same situation a Argent_Arts. I too have downloaded the 2015-2019 redistributable which is supposed to cover a range of versions.
It will not install as Argent_Arts has said.
It's very frustrating, the issue is, I am sure, with Wicked Engine as I can't get the Wicked test IDE to run either
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 18:40
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Quote: "It's very frustrating, the issue is, I am sure, with Wicked Engine as I can't get the Wicked test IDE to run either"


Your situation appears different than mine as I can run both the Wicked Engine editor and tests with no issues. I only have an issue attempting to run GameGuru MAX alpha 3.
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winalot
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 18:44 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 18:44
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oh

I need a new theory
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 19:03
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i Dont have VS 2017 runtimes i have the 2015 -2019 versions and Max 3 works for me:
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3com
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 19:07
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Quote: "Note Visual C++ 2015, 2017 and 2019 all share the same redistributable files.

For example, installing the Visual C++ 2019 redistributable will affect programs built with Visual C++ 2015 and 2017 also. However, installing the Visual C++ 2015 redistributable will not replace the newer versions of the files installed by the Visual C++ 2017 and 2019 redistributables.

This is different from all previous Visual C++ versions, as they each had their own distinct runtime files, not shared with other versions."

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winalot
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 19:14 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 19:34
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I am not sure what the Microsoft statement (kindly posted by 3com) actually means ?
Do I need separate VS redistributables or will the combined one mentioned earlier in this thread work ?

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3com
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 19:46
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I'm going to post a link that may confuse you most, then help to clear all.
https://docs.microsoft.com/es-es/cpp/windows/universal-crt-deployment?view=vs-2019

Perhaps you might try installing vc_rdist 2017
Laptop: Lenovo - Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 1005M @ 1.90GHz

OS: Windows 10 (64) - Ram: 4 gb - Hd: 283 gb - Video card: Intel(R) HD Graphics
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3com
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 20:15
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This link may clear a bit of the thing.
Laptop: Lenovo - Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 1005M @ 1.90GHz

OS: Windows 10 (64) - Ram: 4 gb - Hd: 283 gb - Video card: Intel(R) HD Graphics
cpu mark: 10396.6
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