Hi GameGuru Universe,

You might have noticed that we released fewer updates in 2019 than in previous years, and we can finally reveal the reason why. Some time ago we helped develop a product called VR Quest which enabled kids to create their own VR games in schools, after-school clubs and summer camps. Two years ago we were approached to do a new version based on the GameGuru technology. We saw the opportunity to fund improvements to the GameGuru tech, the work started in March 2019 and a version of VR Quest is now complete and selling in America.



VR Quest is like GameGuru but with all the violent aspects stripped out of it, no weapons, blood, explosions, combat or inappropriate assets. We’ve reshaped the asset library and added some template scenarios to keep the student busy for hours. The educational material is provided by the owners of the VR Quest brand and TheGameCreators provide the modified software.

What this means for GameGuru is that we have a potential additional revenue stream to help fund continued development and although you didn’t know it you have already experienced some of the benefits. The performance update that we released in September 2019 was directly funded by the VR Quest project in order to run levels faster on integrated and low-end hardware.

We have our fingers crossed that VR Quest becomes a great success, not least to allow us to allocate additional funds into GameGuru development and take your favorite game maker to the next level.

As we all know there is plenty of work still to do on GameGuru and we hope you enjoy what is coming in the months to come.

So do we get the vr tool? as in the beginning we gave vr tool its foundations aka reloaded. Would be good token gesture. Although at present im not that fussed. And i hear what you say and excited for the people who fully benefitted but we only got a small part. But something is better than nothing but a year waiting for a small funding speed up is a bit of a disappointment to be honest however onwards and upwards

Okay, I'll check out this VR Quest. No link to the VR Quest website or Steam page?!
Nothing came up either place. How do you link VRQ with GG??
Also wonder what will be the next divergent project to hit TGC tables?

Maybe it's only for schools

For those that are interested:
https://vrquest.com/



You have to understand TGC is a very small operation so anything that brings in the revenue is ultimately going to be more worth their time and energy than Game Guru. And in any case, we may not have seen all the benefits from VR Quest hit the main branch of Game Guru yet, but I'm sure it will come. For one thing, I would like to think VR Quest is more stable than Game Guru; if I were paying $9,500 a year for a license, I'd at least want it to work properly.

I for one welcome this update and hope it, or the money it brings in, will pave the way to future development of Game Guru in 2020 and beyond

Any chance we could get those characters into Game Guru vanilla? I see some new ones in there I've not seen before and you can never have enough character models!

AE

Bravo, Lee!!

Ae
Im in Spain on holiday my birthday. is there an update today? I understand also and as i say onwards and upwards and anything is better than nothing.

https://vrquest.com/



Lee should have provided the website link.I think you misunderstood his post. Vrquest is totally separate from gameguru and has nothing to do with gameguru, the only thing it has in common is the engine.

This isn't a TGC product, in the conventional sense, it is being sold by a 3rd party with their VR equipment.As a package deal. As I said before TGC it self won't be selling it directly or competing with gameguru. In technical sense HamiltonBuhl is the license holder of the software.

Now that the NDA is lifted. I can tell you, that the software relies on online activation and requires an internet connection, it calls a server every time you start the software.



So no TGC, isn't the technical owner of the software, regardless of funding coming from HamiltonBuhl irrespective of having used gameguru code. It is different in a LOT of areas, with quite a bit of code rewrite for vrquest. I understand you are confused as most guys will be, so they aren't obligated to provide the tool as it has nothing to do with gameguru for one, neither gameguru or it's backers/users funded the project.I would say it is presumptuous, but I get that you are confused. His post didn't explain a whole lot, nor should he have to, it was more a FYI, as a few guys were up in arms questioning the future of gameguru ect.

As I said before, the product has nothing to do with gameguru, not going to be sold directly by TGC, not the same target audience, not even the same market. It has absolutely nothing to do with gameguru.If you go to the website you will see exactly who the seller of the product is now.

In fact TGC sold a custom version of FPSC classic back then to HamiltonBuhl for VR use. For all intends and purposes, HamiltonBuhl is the license holder of the software and TGC responsible for maintaining and bug fixing the software. If you want a copy, best go to the Vrquest website and buy it.

happy birthday but no, this has nothing to do with us, it's a school thing - at $9.5k a year i think they might be a little annoyed if TGC start selling it with GG for $10 (or whatever GG goes for these days)

Anyway, congratulations to TGC for selling VR Quest to America.

so?
another tgc stuff...

nothing to do with gg..

congrats to tgc for the new product but now please make gg the piece of engine you promised when we backed Reloaded

The way I read this is that the changes made in GG to support this VR product *will* be put back into the main engine and we will then benefit from them but we are not going to suddenly have a fully VR enabled GG!

Everything that contributes to creating profits and income in the TGC coffers, if this can also help finance the development of Gameguru, welcome.
It will also help create the next generation of game developers, I wish I had these tools when I was a child.
When I was young, a computer occupied an entire room, and it also used perforated cards.

EDIT: comment removed by author.

Lee is a alien ,it’s true I red it somewhere

Dave

Congrats to TGC on the release ..
No doubt hurdles were overcome that will benefit GG as we go through the year and as stated any extra income that can help support GG is always most welcome..


Yep there were no Aliens involved

But- they started it all, and now we're toast!
21-12-12
or
12-21-12
or...
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20712815

This is great and all, and I really don't want to sound like a negative nancy but....when will we hear more about the future of GameGuru?

Am I the only one being underwhelmed by this? I miss the days where we had at least weekly updates on what REALLY was going on!
More communitcation with the community please !! @TGC

EDIT - Pointless...

EDIT: comment removed by author.

Yes, we're hoping for the best, and I think the hope on these forums has been
exceptionally patient. But it's not hard to pull out a "conspiracy" or what ever
you call it-- and I'm the noob here, for only one year. One very quiet year...

3 things at least strike me when I browsed the VR Quest website;
Well, so VR is out == @smallg.
Other features are listed on the website that look to be given to
VR Quest by Game Guru / TGC. Those features could be;

Multiplayer (certainly a much better and improved version)
Character Creator (obviously a much newer and improved version)
and of course VR as mentioned.

Does that leave GG without a license to operate these new gadgets?
I'm a noob here, but I kinda feel the letdown with them #unknowns...

I'm not impressed. To me TGC are like butterflies looking for the next flower.
GG started then focus lost as a half dozen different avenues were explored - none of them given full attention. Then GG was left to idle whilst they started making RPGWorld and at the same time revamped AGK. RPGWorld dropped 'coz it wasn't the moneyspinner they hoped for. A quick burst of enthusiasm for GG then it's left on hold again whilst they did the VR thing.

I hope though that the VR thing does at least give them a revenue stream that will support their GG development, but how many US schools are going to buy it? How much support effort will it suck away from GG?
Then again, if the VR software takes off then it may become more imprtant - moneywise - to TGC than GG. What happens then? I know which way i'd jump if I were running a company.

Great news on VR accomplishments.

Presumably the below aspects are to come to GG this year?

From TGC news:

Finally, we are very pleased to be able to share that we have also been working on some very cool things in the background that address some of the more fundamental issues of GameGuru, such as the antiquated UI, the mostly un-used multiplayer system and bare-bones character capabilities. It was decided that these could not be solved with quick fixes or patches and so these have been worked on under a separate code branch to ensure they don't destabilise the regular GameGuru releases. We are now working to finish off these items and will be ready to announce more details in the first half of 2020; almost 5 years since the original release of GameGuru on Steam

Cheers.

I do hope so … From experience I can assure you grabbing opportunities and keeping afloat is the only way for a company to survive especially small ones these days .. Better that than " That's it Guys .. TGC is closing "

Oh for sure as stated.


Im assuming that was the version for FPSC .. Who knows how much revenue that's brought in since then but obviously they were approached again for an updated version using GG so it must have been worthwhile and profitable for both parties.

Indeed, we none of us want that outcome, but after the disappointment of RPGWorld, I do want GG to fulfill it's promise. I really, really want 'Gamemaking for everyone'

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one deeply concerned about GG's future, but I can't help but feel like our pleas fall on deaf ears, we constantly beg for more communication and to have at least confirmation progress is being made, but we don't even get acknowledged, just...deafening radio silence.

I've lurked on the forums for a while, and followed GameGuru since 2016, but I only fully jumped in the boat in 2019, and I'm already thinking about taking my chances in the water. It's a shame because GG has such a nice community, the easiest and most comfortable workflow in any engine I've tried, and it feels like with just a bit of spit n' shine it could become a pretty decent engine.

I remember hearing about a "project-v3" thing on github, which is (supposedly) the next major version of GameGuru and where all the work goes, but they made it private to "not spoil the surprise". I have to ask "Why?", isn't it in your best interests to keep your community in the know, and keep them excited for the next update? It feels like all you have to do to fix this major communication problem is just, make the project-v3 github public again. Then suddenly everyone can check in and see the day-to-day progress of GG, and hell, maybe even contribute to it and help get it out the door faster! Please correct me if I'm wrong. (and I might be.)

With all due respect, in which universe?

It is a project built with GameGuru as foundation, even you say that.
And of course all GG customers have funded this base on which VRQuest was built. Some of us with a few bucks, some of us with MUCH more. Which is per se not illegal, but still a fact you cannott simply wash away.
Stuff like that happens and keeps companies afloat, no hard feelings.

The hard feelings come from the fact that those who funded the base are still left with an incomplete / faulty product, and the seller of the product took the liberty to prioritize the development of a custom, (hopefully) not faulty product based on it for a paying third party over addressing the issues the original FUNDING and PURCHASING parties are experiencing.

This might have been a necessity with no other options left, but the impression given is terrible, especially with the lack of communication.

An upfront honest

"Dear customers, we are in serious financial hardships and cannot afford to develop this product to the state you expect and deserve. Therefore we have to pause GG development to produce a 3rd party product using GG as base. Only after a successful completion we are in a financial position to hopefully re-visit and finalize your product. We hope you understand!"

would have been enough. No NDA in the world can prevent you from that.

But this here, combined with "Well, it is GG in some ways, but it`s not the same, so don`t expect any feature spill over" and selling a resulting 9 months (I expect much more) development stop by the key resource assigned to the project as "good news", is ridiculous.

EDIT - Pointless...

Read Lee's post again and stop here:


The projects share the same code base (GameGuru) so whatever is fixed/added to one, will benefit the other.

@Ertlov:


It is the same code base but compiles to different projects, so ...

@OldFlak


I can assure you that you will not be disappointed, and tons of work has been done "behind the scenes"

@Preben
Thanks for the feedback - much appreciated.
For the life of me I just can't fathom why TGC don't fill us in - like give us solid info - not dribs and drabs, that just leave you without any real idea.

Your contributions have largely shaped GameGuru in recent times, so coming from you that little bit of feedback is inspiring.

See - it's not that hard TGC.

OldFlak.....

NDA for starters which everyone is turning into a TGC conspiracy and haven't been actually reading what has been said.
Even this months Newsletter gave the info you wanted to see ..

I really hope so. For this reason I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

I have given up on that.

Damn if you do, damn if you don't. Would it be more okay if lee was working on APK studio. ?



Because I am aware of lots of behind the scene stuff, which to be honest isn't anyone's business, nor is it public interests.So trust me when I say, you are wrong on many levels you not even aware of, and unfortunately not my place to do so. Lets just say the last 3 months of the VRquest project would have wiped out 2 years worth of gameguru sales just like that. Still think gameguru users funded the project directly or indirectly, you forget the anonymous funding lee received when the kickstarter failed, which would have doomed the project, had it not been for that funding. ANY users/backers is after the fact.

Which universe ? A pan dimensional jagged polygon universe with a conspiracy black hole at the center of it..... lol

I think this shows more about the Game Creators as a struggeling company than new news for VR, I have an Oculus Rift S and you would never expect to pay that yearly subscription to build and walk around a vanilla GG level, way too expensive!

Especially when DREAMS for PSVR is on the horizon and blows this out of the water!

I fear we will get left with another engine that had good beginnings but unfinished tech..... remember FPSCX10 anyone???, yes I bought that also in the thought that at least I could make a FPS like the ones in 2000.... I was wrong.

I think it shows they are "Not " stupid enough to turn down a good opportunity to get more revenue.
They wouldn't do it if they didn't do well from the FPSC version.

But it seems that's just me ..

this is what i would to read... but please... give us something real and tangible soon...after a year of bugfixes we really need all improvments the engine deserve..

fully functional water/underwater system
complete particle system even in the editor
proper lightning and shadows
complete workflow of third parties fbx animated characters with proper anims
proper GUI system with automatic rescale e resize of resolutions
entity spawn by lua command ( necessary for inventory system, and so on)

and the list could continue but these are the most missing for me

I for one think the developers have (if not tossed us the blue-prints,) at least have
clarified the water, and am happy to find what they got up their sleeves!
Appreciate the response Preben.
The flat earth is saved until the next apocalyptic catastrophe!
Now onward...

Good for a week or so then ..

maybe LOL

Although I think it is pointless I will throw two cents in here.
Nothing was said about NDA, or to be exact "sort of NDA" till Lee said it after being called out on telling users there were to be "six months of bug fixes" which to be clear was an outright lie. Whether told due to NDA (sort of or not) this wasn't the best way to deal with it. Don't blame the users for this confusion and I don't see how that gets turned around on them to be a conspiracy theory. It is a fact and deriding users in this way for wanting to know exactly how all this benefits them is downright obnoxious.

Well stop doing it then you are only confusing things even further.

I fail to see how any anonymous donation would mean that pledges and sales are suddenly not counted towards development of this product, unless you live in the same world as those who seem to think that changing the name from Reloaded to GameGuru somehow meant it was an entirely different software so all deals are off. You keep going on about it not being GameGuru it is GameGuru funded by donations,pledges and then more donations and any bug fixes quickly shoehorned in after six months were done by users too.


Goes without saying really but why do TGC still need money thrown at this bottomless pit, looks to me like they can finish up a project just fine when it suits them.

Do the math yourself TGC have credits posted online for Gold, Silver and Bronze pledges I can assure you it was a far higher amount than any anonymous donation and perhaps your eyes will be opened as to why you can't ignore the figures when totaled up. Maybe some need to stop and actually think before adopting the small company with limited income rhetoric often expounded around here.

If your going to sing the company song then that's fine, if your not that's fine too but at least educate yourselves first.

If I can speak from a more realistic place.

I'm getting a bit more older now. I am now married, have a daughter and have a lot more responsibilities in my personal life, a lot less time, and less patience for the annual mysteries of "lots of great stuff to come". Additionally my mental health isn't getting any better, with my anxiety disorder and this place and this product directly contributes to my anxious and continual feelings of disappointment and unknowning. The repeat annual darkness with no deadlines or roadmaps has become perpetual pain for me that is has become very real. Nobody owes me anything, regardless if i want to hold to the words of "life time updates" for the product purchased. No contract is signed in this. GG has been very bitter sweet for me in the past but really its just causing me physical pain at this point not due to the software directly.

I simply do not have the excitement for such statements anymore of "good things coming" and etc... as I've been here since the original FPSC days and have been through it enough (especially the last 3 years) to know its just a drop and go statement where a few deployments happen and then complete and utter darkness for half a year. The updates and cool features are generally something that we can easily find in any other engine anyways so the excitement is built on some form of loyalty rather than anything else. I am sure a lot of work goes behind it all, but the disorganized manner of which this comes without a date is again just too painful for someone like me. I'd much rather my barriers be but my own and not the infliction from others.

Its become regular and unfortunately I became reliant on GG to help me coupe with my stress but the prolonged "bugs" and issues that have gone unattended to for years is a set-back for me accomplishing anything. Maybe its my own problem with always being too ambitious and expecting too much. I only paid 170 dollars for this product, i dont pay any subscription. So I am not owed anything. I greatly appreciate the quick fixes for things I have had to repeat directly by email but i think I at a point in my life i can't wait for "good things to come" each year.

I have spent the past 5 years around here helping everyone else out where i can. I now get more requests for support beyond what i can do anymore. I think this is an offset of the development seemingly stopping so often (visibly) or simply just no public projected vision for the product's future.

I dont think I will wait for anything anymore, or expect anything anymore. I will continue to work on my projects with the engine you have created and put myself through the workaround stresses as I have since the beginning. I have worked with engines a lot smaller than this in the past, so its nothing new for me. However what is unique with GG is no public roadmap plans outlining what will come in the future or present. The github isn't enough to go by.

Anywho, I need to take rest as I have barely slept in the past 3 weeks, trying to get the mechanics of one of my projects working with GG. I am sure the great amazing stuff to come is grand, for GG. So that's cool. But I won't hold my breathe waiting for it. Id find myself needing CPR.

Certainly not its always a good read .

Wow sorry to hear that Teabone … Seriously if its effecting you that badly then you really should reduce your time in this environment. Take a break as anything stressful should be avoided .. Look after yourself first.

On a serious note, sorry to read that Teabone, you're one of our most valued contributors hear (not to mention YouTube) so hearing Game Guru is having a negative effect on your mental health is saddening. Take it easy man, give yourself time to recharge.

Just wanted to address the whole 'no public roadmap' thing. I think it would be great if we had something like that, but TGC has had their fingers burnt in the past by proclaimed soon-to-be-coming features that either never materialised, or did in a broken or unfinished state. EBE, PBR, Character Creator, 3rd person, the list goes on and on. Why would they voluntarily announce they are developing functionalities upfront when they have no idea if they will work or if they will break something else in the engine, and then get scolded here on the forums if (when) the features inevitably don't live up to the hype? Much easier from a reputation management point of view to just stay tight-lipped.

This is another random thought that occurs: why doesn't TGC actually try making a fully-fledged game with its software? Not some one level demo, an actual game with multiple levels and a story. Source engine got developed iteratively to accomodate the needs of Valve games, I'm sure CryTek was the same during the development of Crysis 1 -3, probably Unreal too. It might give them a better perspective on the actual needs of the user rather than a bunch of - let's face - disparate voices jostling for different things.

AE

As Rolfy said, please stop doing so then. The whole reason there was a "conspiracy theory" was because the whole "conspiracy was based on your poorly worded, misleading, and to be quite frank arrogant post which basically told us quite clearly that you were working on the NDA project and that rather than being for GameGuru as it was hinted, it was in fact for another software, and that we should all basically shut up. It was you that caused many of us to kick off and start yelling here and on discord, nobody else, all because you wanted bragging rights to insider knowledge.



I'm really sorry to hear that mate, but i'm also glad i'm not the only one, my little blow out on discord a while back was the result of similar circumstances, the slightest thing is driving me crazy lately, so i really feel for you mate.

well I've taken a break from GG.
Fed up of the dangling carrot routine.
Perhaps most of you have the same thoughts.
Try another engine until Lee delivers a engine we can build with.
I honestly think GG is dead and may go
VR dx11 for the schools. Like I said before most people who defend GG are
Store sellers with a motive.

Yes, we can only discuss to which extent or percentage.


That`s the point here. I dont call anyone out for taking a good opportunity to keep the company afloat. Everyone would do that., hell I did similar stuff with Homegrown Games when the numbers looked grim. But the communication here was sub-par, to say the least.


THIS.

@ TGC

CONCLUSION
The talk time is running out, it's time to move.
It is time for new features needed and demanded many of them on different occasions.
It is time to devote all the time and resources necessary to the development of Gameguru.
It is a good time to inform the user of the progress and the roadmap that follows the development of GG. And it would be good to do it in this forum as it was before.

Patience is exhausted, the illusion is diluted.
For many users, GG far from being part of the solution, has become part of the problem.

2020 must be the year of Gameguru, it is time to reverse the process, to recover the illusion of users with tangible changes, changes that really make a difference.

It is definitely time to work for your main asset: The community.

I reiterate my personal decision to give TGC the benefit of the doubt, and no, I am not blind or abducted when I do it.