Over the last two years of developing GameGuru, one of the most common criticisms has been about the strapline "The Easy Game Maker". Not always directly, but when you chase the threads back to a common source it stems from the belief that by buying GameGuru you instantly gain the knowledge and wisdom of an experienced developer and ought to be able to develop and release games to the same standard as other game developers using professional tools. In all fairness, I would never recommend someone get seed capital, hire a bunch of coders/artists and attempt to create a commercial title in GameGuru. As you know, it's in continual development, which means for every five steps we take forward, you can be sure there is one backward step while we fiddle with something in the engine. I would only endorse the above when I have seen a small stable of highly successful (and crash proof) titles do well on Steam and other distribution verticals, and I believe we are some way from this point.

Given a strapline that could be construed as misleading (i.e. game making is definitely NOT easy to the beginner), I am wondering if there is a better strapline that would adequately describe the CURRENT state of GameGuru. I recently created a small promo video for GameGuru to do some light marketing (useful if done right, expensive if done wrong), and it became apparent through early drafts that "Fastest way to make a 3D game" might be more forgiving than 'easy"?

It's a minor point but I wanted to open up the question to the community, in the hopes a better strap line could be arrived at, that would avoid misleading future users as to the current state of the engine and the scope of its present capabilities.

NOTE: Just to head off the responses of 'forget changing the messaging, just make the product better', please refer to my development blog that details the current development of the top voted community feature of "Graphics Engine Overhaul" (https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/218038) and rest assured my ten fingers cannot code any faster! No harm in modifying the product message if it helps users make a more informed decision and any feedback you have in this regard would be most welcome!

I think it would help dispel a lot of expectations that things will work out of the box for them the way they want it to -- with ease and void of any hard work.

I brought up this issue in the past when reading the home page introductory sentence:

"Have you always dreamed of making a game but have no wish to delve into the mystical realms of programming or 3d art? GameGuru allows you to fulfill your dreams in a non technical, fun and extremely easy to share way."

Think there are a number areas in the branding and on the website, where some changes could be made. I find a lot of people ask how to get custom media in to Game Guru and there are plenty of people wanting to learn more about LUA and how they can make things tick in Game Guru with it. There are two negatives in that sentence that don't really help reinforce that Game Guru has the potential to create powerful work or be taken serious.

I agree to Teabone, the basic tagline "Easy Game Maker" is actually prett solid. After all, you can easily create something that feels like a game.
However, suggesting that GG has nothing to do with programming might lead people to the assumption they can achieve everything shown off by other users without touching LUA and HLSL, the more sane / experienced ones will assume we have a visual scripting system in place.

As someone jumping between Unreal and Unity for a living and chasing his owmn dreams in GameGuru, I would still say GameGuru is the easy way to get SOMETHING playable, but if you want to stand out and shine, you have to dig even deeper compared to Unity (not Unreal, doing something in UE that doesn't remind players of another US game is a full-blown dev task).

I would dub GameGuru right now "Easy, yet powerful!", but I am too far away from the target group to make a reliable statement here.

Contrary to some, I really like the "Fastest way to make a 3d game" line. Ive showed GameGuru to a number of people, and their initial reaction to the current slogan has unfortunately been negative.

Got a real kick out of the new video Lee - loads better than the original promo IMHO.

Unfortunately the same case I experienced with colleagues.

Change it to: Easy, Powerful, Fast

I really have a problem with the word "Easy". It's easy until you find something that you want to do which is hard or you have to find alternative workaround due to engine inability.

GameGuru - The Friendly Game Maker
limited only by your imagination and skills

I like that,sounds about right to .

Dave

Hi all
yeah interesting topic!

To be honest I never liked the name Game Guru (still don't) it just sounds so cheesy to me, and using the word EASY just makes it even worse. Sorry Lee

Using Easy in any context just means people (especially on steam) expect making a game to be easy, and I guess you can't blame them - that's what the blurb says! But how can it be easy, really?

The fact is that there is nothing easy about making a game - and particularly one that is customised to point of making it stand out as really different to what is already out there.

Game Guru however definitely provides a more intuitive approach to the task of game development. But it is not going to be easy, more fun perhaps but not easy.

But what to use for a blurb? - honestly I don't know!!

Perhaps:

Game Guru - an intuitive approach to game development.

Game Guru - intuitive game development.

Reliquia....

"GAMEGURU - the game engine that provokes/conjures the imagination" or something like that........

Didn't we already have this discussion a while ago, which resulted in Lee changing most of the description so it wasn't so missleading, if i remember right he didn't want to lose the Easy Game Maker tag line because that was his aim, i also remember him creating an image advert with the three game creators on it (MyWorld, GameGuru, AGK) defining what each was for. What ever happened to those changes and adverts?

Whenever I describe GG to someone I always tell them it's a "Place & Play Engine.."

I always call it a WYSIWYG Game Engine (IT speak for "What You See Is What You Get"), maybe it can be be tagged as WYSIWYG with optional advanced scripting.

Thanks for the feedback so far, I really wanted to champion the 'easy' part but of course, the word is highly subjective and could probably mislead someone who genuinely believes they can remake AAA games without committing time, money, skill, effort, and experience to the process. I had been toying with the idea of reducing expectations with something like 'your first step into making a 3D game' but this alienates those who can do amazing things with GameGuru, but perhaps this can be put down to an 'open secret' for those who get past the tagline and see what can be done. I suppose all words are open to interpretation at some level, but I have been brow beaten a few times this year that the word 'easy' is more a matter of opinion than a cold hard fact.

I read a review of GameGuru where the reviewer was complaining that it was misleading and didn't make game-making easy. For a while I was really confused until I realised there are some people out there who actually think it is possible to create a decent FPS game with very little effort, literally. I guess like the green button on 3D Game Maker. That would be like expecting MS Word to write your novel or screenplay for you. I have written screenplays and novels. MS Word is good but we have to be realistic. And where's the fun in having no input anyway? It's still hard to get my head around this.

...until you compile and your standalone has fixed some of your breaks and broken some of your fixes

One of the reasons I actually took the plunge was the price point. I knew from reading the forums that working with Game Guru was not going to be without its frustrations and limitations, but I bought the engine and a couple of DLC packs for a tenner. You can't go wrong with that price, but you also can't expect to remake Skyrim. So you could go down the route of actually saying what the product is...

Game Guru - The cost-effective game maker

Game Guru - Fast 3D game creation

Game Guru - The drag & drop game engine

...or you could use something a little less literal...

Game Guru - Imagination is the only limit (which, alas, is not strictly speaking true)

Game Guru - A game engine for all

I once described Game Guru as that pretty girl from school who flunked all her classes; beautiful to look at but ultimately nothing going on inside. I was wrong, massively. Game Guru is actually like that nerdy Croatian girl in the corner; beauty and endless potential hidden behind weird quirks and a language barrier.

AE

You need to have a tag that is short; but conveys both "easy" and "deep" at the same time. Users need to know, that although it is very easy to get something up and running; there is depth to the program, that will allow the user to grow, learn and expand their endeavors.

GameGuru is a product and yes you want to sell it, but please remember the product is only half the story the biggest asset this product has is this community, yes I here the Lee is only one man so cannot expect anything like unity or unreal, they have 100's of developers! well so does GameGuru --- just look in the forums of all the extraordinary people, the scripters, the coders, the 3d asset makers there are 100's of developers right here on our doorstep and this is the most friendly and helpful community I have ever been a part of.

There are people here that go out of there way to help from opening GG to flying around in space, Lee has not just created a game engine he has created this friendly helpful talented community, the product is brilliant but with this community it is absolutely fantastic.

I have been a member for a very long time and a few years ago I got very ill and spent a long time in hospital, I came back to the forums to find no reloaded but GameGuru, I thought to my self where the hell do I start? I was a little surprised at all the changes that had happened, so I started reading the forums and chatting to various people and it 6 - 12 months not only could I use GG I could create textures, 3d models (bit poor I know) and also created a Variation Generator, all this is thanks to this friendly community, it was not easy nothing is easy but it was fun and I get great sense of achievement out of it,
now all this is just learning to use GG what kind of feeling you get when you create a full game and release it must be fantastic and I believe that day will come for all of us

So GameGuru is not just a game maker, it has made this community and this community is what makes GameGuru great (no offence Lee)

We all want it to succeed I see old faces here but also a lot of new faces, I would not have hung around for 12 years if I did not have faith in Lee and his products.

So the tag line should be short, sweet, truthful & honest it should not be an expectation or a glorified 'you can' it should reflect what the product does which I believe it to be a Game Maker but very friendly in use and with the community even friendlier, and YES your imagination is your limit look at what some people have achieved here even Lee is surprised at what AmenMoses has achieved with his scripts, so as far as limits are concerned imagination and skills would be it.

so I stand with:

GameGuru - The Friendly Game Maker
limited only by your imagination and skills

A disclaimer could go with this stating

*Please note a basic FPS can be created within minutes of opening the product but more can be achieved by learning basic scripting and asset creation with your favourite modelling program

I think people expect much more automation when they read the word "easy". Game Studio for instance will allow you to make a game within the editor from scratch without once having to leave Game Maker Studio. You can draw the sprites and animations in editor easily. It also has a drag and drop interface for people who do not want to code anything. Obviously, if you do want to code and you choose to use other software to create media you will probably have a better end result, but the option is there.

I think Game Guru's main issues when people first come to it is the fact you have to use so many other programs to do anything beyond the absolute basics. Even editing a lua file means you have to know how to load and edit a .lua file in notepad or similar. Many people just don't know their way around a computer that well (amazing as it seems). Custom media has the same problem in that most 3D programs don't export to .x and .fbx is still wip. So many people get confused with all the conversion steps this can take. Characters are a complete nightmare to add in and are a very good example of how complex GG can be at times.

Still, it's fair to say Game Guru is much easier to use when you stick to pre-made assets already set up for it. No-one can say it doesn't have a good amount of those I'm really not sure what you can use instead of the easy game maker though. Perhaps something like "Easy to Learn - Difficult to Master." Although that may sound negative simply by having the word "difficult" in. It's technically true but not the greatest catchphrase ever.

I think the easiest way to show how easy and fast GG is to get into and use would be to get someone who has never used GameGuru, Unreal and Unity at all. Give them 10 minutes with each to see what they manage to do and then use the footage as a good example of how easy to use GG is.


Yes, they are generally called gamers It's amazing how many people do not realise just how much work goes into making games or any software really. I remember once, one chap who drove me mad asking for lessons on coding. I never really though I was good enough to accept payment for lessons, so never took him up on it. A friend of mine however had spoke on forums to the same guy (small world) and agreed to give lessons. He said the chap had one lesson and never returned as he was expecting to be able to make a game by that point, rather than learn the basics like variables, loops and logic etc in a proper order. That gives you an indication of how little some people are prepared to put in to make their dream game. They have great ideas, but don't realise how much you have to learn to simply make "hangman" for instance.

My Ex!


Really sorry, but i just couldn't pass that one up lol

I find this is the best catch-phrase and for me it describes GG the best.
A good start for beginners and a nice Tool for professionals(e.g. Prototype generator)

Actually I think I would go for ... GameGuru - Its not unity or Unreal.
That would solve a lot of issues

Game Guru - The Fast, Flexible & Fun 3D Game Maker.

If you're a game making beginner experience 'place & play' right from the outset with hundreds of free 3d assets, if you're an experienced developer and 3d modeller stand out from the crowd and build something unique. Game Guru is the fast, flexible and fun way to build a 3D game for everyone.


[note "fast" may draw negative comments if someone plonks ten thousand high poly assets and gets 5 FPS, but hey ho can't please everyone]

Cheers.

GameGuru - " Game Creation has never been easier "
If you must keep the easy tag ?

GameGuru - Easier than you imagined

TAG - "GameGuru - The only limits are yours"

It really depends on the users ability. GG is only as easy as the user can make it.

lots of good ideas here not making Lee's job any easier

Dang! I was gonna suggest that, then I scrolled down and saw you beat me to it, lol.
How about: Game Guru: A minute to learn, a lifetime to master! (Actually, I think a board game already has that, I just can't remember which one)
or Game Guru: If your game sucks, don't blame the engine!

GameGuru - It is what it is.

"believes they can remake AAA games"
maybe add "indie" somewhere, then the people will not expect that they can create the next COD in no time.

I think we have a winner!

I might be a voice in the wilderness but i think the word easy should be part of the description because it is easy, I tried a lot of game making software and this is the easiest i've ever used, as a starting point it's very easy and you soon realise you can do a lot with it, I saw some reviews for it and when I weeded out the "tried it for 5 seconds" users who didn't give it a fair chance I read some of the ones by more serious users, a couple said it is easy to create a simple game quickly without coding or modelling skills but if you want to be making something of note you have to be prepared to put a lot more effort in and learn how to use it to it's potential.

"GameGuru-it does exactly what it says on the tin". Ok that's rubbish but for some reason the Ronseal advert popped into my head.

What I'm going to say is not agains nobody, just IHMO.

Curious market of video games.
I am sick of watching on the television people crying out for a miracle cream that removes 20 years with a single bottle, makes all wrinkles disappear in an instant, yogurts that take away diseases, we all know that this is not possible, but nobody protests, and they all buy their products, not taking into account that it is something that is playing with your health; but no! Do not say than GG is an easy game maker.

Everyone, absolutely everyone knows that creating a game is not easy, even before buying GG, even without having any idea about the development of a video game.
It is not possible to think of this twenty-first century that by taking a restorative tomorrow I will be an astronaut.

For this reason I was never affected by what the slogan could say, I simply bought the product and checked for myself as far as I can go with it, without creating any expectations beforehand, and without taking into account the opinions of others.
Do not get me wrong boys, is that I like to check things for myself, without letting me influence for anything.

If we were talking about a product that costs 1000 dollars, but we only talk about 19 dollars, for God's sake buy, try, and find out for yourself if you like it or not.

3com

Something that is more inclusive is what is needed here. Words like "anyone" and "everyone" means beginners and experts. So I think exploring something along the lines of inclusiveness. You could also leave out any expectation and just leave in exactly what it does.


Game Guru - Build Your World
Game Guru - It's Your World
Game Guru - Everyone's Game Maker
Game Guru - Everyone's Game Creator
Game Guru - The Indie Game Development Tool
Game Guru - The Indie Game Maker
Game Guru - The Indie Game Creator

Something inclusive, attractive, simple and doesn't set out an expectation.

i agree it should be Easy, Powerful, Fast, an engine that grows with you Knowledge and and skills acquired through experience.
to create the game you want and above all a great learning experience, community backed and driven,
with developers full support for the community. one of the best and easy understandable indie software available.
big or small indie developer Game Guru can learn you all you need to get on the big ladder to success .
built in easy scripts for new developers, hundreds of community driven script examples for you to try and learn new
abilities in lua commands some great tutorials to get you started on the road to inide game development.
GAME GURU ROCKS with the community driven projects and content. the word easy dont have to be in the title, but could be put in the description
of game guru, to many new easy game maker software available lets face it game guru is above that, people want indie software and dont see easy as
indie game making software, they want grounds to believe it is for indie game making and learning. it will also take away the stigma of Game Guru being
a toy.


GAME- GURU THE SMART WAY INTO INDIE DEVELOPMENT

GAME- GURU INDIE

i hate the word easy it is just like saying or the stigma of amature // A word used by those of a lesser intelligence to berate those of higher intelligence.
or Vice versa.
get GAME-GURU indy as a free upgrade to dx11 and new features when you purchase GAME GURU the easy game maker. within a time limit.

VOTE GAME-GURU INDIE put it were it belongs .

err my wife just shouted a slogan at me GameGuru - The Widow Maker

do you think shes trying to tell me something

I thought that said the window maker then..... doh.

lol nah that's MicroS**t

How about .....

GameGuru - What’s the Worst That Could Happen?

or

GameGuru - So misunderstood.

or

You only get an oo with gameguroo

or we could take a leaf out of John Lewis' book .....

GameGuru – “Never Knowingly Undersold”

or how about the mastercard approach ..

For Everything Else, There’s AGK

hahahahaha

I think we have a winner.

Game Guru Beta - where the features are half finished and buggy, just like your games will be
joke, love GG but you can dress it anyway you like, it won't make it any easier or better.


.
you could say the same for anything by the same logic, it's not quick/fast if you don't know what you're doing and has the same issues as the "easy" part.
Changing the name now will just feel cheap and like you can't deliver on the original promise so unless that's true i vote keep the name (and tag).

@smallg
yes my point.
GET GAME-GURU indy as a free upgrade to dx11 and PBR, and new features when you purchase GAME GURU the easy game maker. within a time limit.
then the choice up to the customer if they want game guru indy, keep DX11 and PBR ect as an optional component , for GG.
downloading will update GG to indie version by name.

What's a wife?

W= wonderful
I = intelligent
F = funny
E = exciting

she is watching me LOL

Lets keep
GameGuru - The Easy Game Maker.
Leave it there as the old DX9 version

Now lets go for
GameGuru Advanced
Free upgraded DX11 version and start adding some of these advanced features

This way Lee can save face without backing down to rename the original tagline

I liked the "small promo video". I really never liked the name GameGuru , maybe a name change would also help ?

Lance

"GameGuru - Lee's worked hard so buy the ******* thing!"