I never have either, lol. "FPSC Reloaded" was a bit verbose, but I thought just plain "Reloaded" was decent.

The Chinese say:
It does not matter the color of the cat if it catches mice.

I had "the weird game maker" as a quip on the title screen for "Redacted". Any takers?

But seriously: I'd suggest simply losing the tagline??

However, I don't think there is anything wrong with it as it is the easy game maker.

I'm also am not entirely a fan of "absolutely no technical knowledge needed". Please remove the "absolutely" part as its not entire true.



It just makes me think of this scene...

Game Guru - Game design made easier.

Game Guru - Game making reimagined!

Reliquia....

GameGuru - Your Game creator.

There are still some problems with GG, but I think it's come so far since it's 1st release, both thanks to Lee and all of the community, and what makes things different for future development is that Lee actually listens and understands what we want from GG.

Yes there are a few rough edges, AI, some things not documented to well, like some of the newer LUA commands.

From personal experience before GG i didn't even know what LUA was, but now, having learnt a little I can now do things I need from my project. Yes if you want a simple shooter with a few assets thrown in you can do that, but you can do more as well.

Let's not forget the GG store too with 1000's of great items to buy. Cheaply too.

I always felt RPG Maker's slogan was pretty spot on - "Simple enough for a child; powerful enough for a developer."

GameGuru - Your Game making Friend

Hmn, could have a variation of that, "simple to create; hard to master".

That's the turn off right there, people want results without effort these days and that line will put off more people than it will entice.

Maybe that's the kind of person we don't want though.

I think everybody comes with the same dream to start with,one click one game.

Dave

You can't run a business by "not wanting" potential customers.

GameGuru - The Fast Game maker

Gameguru as is.
Gameguru is first and foremost a school game maker.
Here you can learn to think out the box.

3com

Game Guru - Your game-making pal that's fun to be with!



AE

Lol, I came up with "Easy to Learn - Difficult to Master" on the first page, but mentioned the difficult part may be a turn off. Still, I agree about putting off people who will turn round and give negative reviews or comments. You really don't want the people who want a one click game maker, nothing will keep them happy no matter what you do. Unrealistic expectations are just that, unrealistic. If that catch phrase put people off, they really aren't serious about making games anyway.

Not only can you but you also have to. Attracting the wrong crowd with "false" promises will earn GG bad reviews and a worse reputation and harms it as a product. This is true in any business that is not designed for mass appeal.



Something along this line but not quite this is the best suggestion I've seen on here so far.



-Wolf

"Simple enough for the beginner; powerful enough for the serious."

I think we're getting there

Dave

What false promises ? It IS an easy game maker, you can't legislate for people being disappointed and making negative reviews no matter how good a product is and if you go too far you are in danger of making it elitist, compared to most game making software it is VERY easy to use which is of great credit to the developers, people making terrible games with it and trying to sell them is it's biggest Achilles heel and that's because it is so easy to use to make a simple functioning game.

In my opinion, I would drop the term "easy" as soon as possible...

In the American English language it seems to indicate that "Game Guru" is extremely easy to use in order to make AAA games, and as Teabone pointed out on the home page, it makes it seem like you don't need to learn scripting, and you don't need any scripting at all. That clearly isn't the case with GG. This makes GG seem over-promised, and under-delivered... No offense intended.

I understand that GG is still a work in progress, and I look forward to the future upgrades. I also understand that it will likely be a lot better in 1 or 2 years. I personally am stuck at v 1.14 at this time, because that is the only version where I can figure out how to get the enemy characters to work well.

You might also want to make the statement up front that good scripting is needed to make a good sophisticated game, and that scripting is extremely difficult for many people to learn... but there are also clearly some good scripts in the forums that are free to download (especially from smallg).

I would also have to admit that I have tried to learn scripting for a couple of years, but I still have no idea where to start in order to begin writing a script (even though I have seen a lot of tutorials about it). When I try to learn about scripting it seems like I'm listening to someone speak a vastly different foreign language without an interpreter. I end up with no idea what's being discussed or what I'm supposed to do.

I wish someone was available every day to make custom scripts to sell by request (via e-mail) like some model makers. I would be willing to pay a few dollars or a few £'s for a good custom script that makes my game a lot better. I have already done this by purchasing some scripts from the TGC store.

In my opinion, dropping the term "easy" is just good business sense. Otherwise, based on the terminology as it is stated in the American English language, you are leaving yourself open to potential law suits for false advertising or fraud [no offense]. I would rather see GG improve in the future through further upgrades, rather than see GG scrapped because some one got angry and filed a law suit that destroys Lee's life and lifestyle, and forces you folks to stop selling GG.

I wish you all the best...

I agree, lets not say weather its easy or not, drop the easy part.
unity and other engine's don't say stuff like that . they just have the name and some were else in there forum or web space they explain the rest.

Just Call it simply GameGuru
Or
GameGuru Engine


P.s
you can even call it LeeGuru or GuruLee or even GameGuruLee

This. Leave the slogan out. It's fairly pointless. Let the name speak for itself.

We should just call it Bob, short for Kate (Blackadder reference )

The "home" page describes it to be a bit easier than it turns out to be. I can see why people would feel cheated if they aren't coming from a game dev background.



I'm all for Bob.

Or, as I said before and some people seem to agree... lose the tagline. ...and then call it Bob.

That's very subjective, with Gameguru it is easy to make a quick simple game with no coding, granted it won't be a world beater but there is nowhere that says it will be, you are basing your view that everyone has the "I can't be bothered learning to use it to it's potential" attitude, if that were true this forum wouldn't be full of people who are stretching it to the limit, most of us bought it for it's ease of use and it fulfills that promise and much more.

How about, Game Guru: Easier Then Some

Game Guru: Fill In Blank

Game Guru: Still In Alpha

Game Guru: You Will Have To Code

Game Guru: M.U.B.A.R .....

Game Guru: Makes me want to pull my hair out every time I try to import an animated character...

And a serious one all jokes aside .... Game Guru: A Simple Game Solution & Game Guru: The Power To Create

I have to agree on this the game engine is easy to use and map out levels. The only real hard part is scripting and the lack of features that can make it easier to make a game. The more scripts and commands the easier it will become. It lacks this the most in the beginning because the hard code commands and features that we have now was not in the engine. Once the engine becomes complete in these areas it will become easy to use. Lee should work on more out of the box scripts, commands, and features like getting the third person in full function projectiles commands in the fpe. being able to shoot in any direction and side scrolling gameplay. allow more these type of thing to be done with ease and less relied on scripting to have it in GG. I for one don't expect to be making a triple A game with this engine being it's for just making an indie type of games.

I disagree. The slogan says what the product name cannot. We only know what Game Guru is because we use Game Guru. Looking at it in a list of products on Steam, what does a cold audience think? "Game. Guru. Well I guess it has something to do with games and perhaps something to do with knowledge, what even is a guru"? (Disclaimer: I know what a guru is, I just doubt a lot of the target audience does). For there to be no slogan, the product name has to reflect exactly what the product does.

Game Maker, Game Builder, Build Game, Game Creator...FPS Creator

If they are going to stick with Game Guru, the slogan need to sum up the product in one hit. The blurb on the homepage/steam page/back of the box can do the explaining. For example:

Game Guru - A Game Engine For All

Ever dreamt of creating your own game? Game Guru is a fun, powerful 3D game engine designed to appeal to all skill levels. Beginners will find the drag & drop interface an easy and non-technical introduction to game creation, allowing you to make your first game in under 5 minutes. Sculpt terrain, add enemies and weapons, and adjust the look and feel of a level all with a few clicks. Game Guru comes loaded with 10 test games and a series of video tutorials to teach you everything you need to know.

Yet beneath this enticing simplicity lies sophistication and endless possibilities thanks to Game Guru's support of LUA, a powerful but accessible scripting language. More experienced developers will be able to script everything from events, to AI behaviour, to physics and more. Game Guru comes packed with assets such as enemies, weapons, buildings and objects to flesh out your level, and is supported by several DLC content packs to further enhance the scope of your game. In addition, the Game Creators store gives developers and artists alike a place to buy and sell their own custom made assets including 3D models, scripts and music.

Our community is at the heart of everything we do, and Game Guru is in continual development in consultation with its users. Vote for the features you'd like to see, keep abreast of new developments, share the progress of your latest creation, all on our forums.

Game Guru offers developers of all skill levels an inexpensive, fun, and engaging way to make their dream games a reality.

Thank you and goodnight!

AE

Avenging Eagle: wow thats a real great text you come up with there

Just wanted to put in some more "keywords" that could be used , i like a word like "grow" thats what is really going on here, not sure what the text should be , this is not suggestions just some words.

GameGuru: Make drag & drop first times games, to powerful serious scripted 3D games.
GameGuru grows with your skills.
GameGuru grow to your needs.
Make games , while you and GameGuru grow.

?

Good thinking Preben

Game Guru comes loaded with 10 test games and a series of video tutorials to help you grow your skills.

AE

That is indeed the direction it should go in my opinion when choosing a new strapline.

Very accessible for novices, customizable features for advanced users.

This with Lua in mind of course wich enables the user to extract so much more out of GameGuru.

TGC should slap what Avenging Eagle said on the front page and be done with it (with AE's permission, of course). That was very well put and describes the product to a T! Nice job!

What Avenging Eagle said:

What Avenging Eagle said!

Well put and describes Game Guru exactly.

Reliquia...

If we do have to have a tag line then the one Avenging Eagle posted does cover all the capabilities of the engine.

Game Guru - A Game Engine For All

Things can be made with stock entities and scripts, or you can get into the inner working of lua scripting and accomplish some amazing things.
Custom modelling and texturing just adds to it.

Ditto on what Pirate Myke said.

Fact, game making is NOT easy, but its made a little easier with tools like GameGuru, you would not dumb down the product for a handful of users so why dumb down the tagline, I can understand Lee's frustration at the nay-sayers but to put it bluntly......

You cant make a sandwich without slicing some bread, carve some ham and cup up a tomato!

GameGuru - You get back what you put in!!

Game Guru - Create Your Game, Easy to Use - Create Your Dream Game. No Subscriptions or Fees. What you create is yours, forever.

Thanks AE for the updated product description. I have a management meeting on Tuesday and will propose this text to replace a chunk of what's already on Steam. I will also bring up the issue of the strapline and your suggestions so far. Instead of 'Game Engine For All', how about "Game Making For Everyone" as this allows for the fact GameGuru also provides assets and tutorials as part of the offering.

good idea Lee, I hope too that a lua manual for the specific commands will be created as well, with syntax examples too.. also how to use lua arrays, unless there is some lua array manuals already, I can't seem to find much.

@Tarkus1971, Lots of useful Lua information here>> https://www.tutorialspoint.com/lua/lua_tables.htm

@ Lee

Sounds great Lee... Spot on...

reliquia



Yep I agree totally with this. Terrible name and really puts it amongst the toy software (which it ain't)

Belidos



I have argued in another post that the engine should be viewed as a WISIWIG driven product. So slogans arn't really my thing but how about something around

'The WISIWIG 3D Development System'

Gulp. A tad long for a Tag line probably. No laughing please

Stick with what you have Lee, i remember when i first started using GG and that quote " The easy game maker" actually was true in my eyes yes it has some bugs, yes it needs some parts doing here and there but the interface and the creation side of things is actually very easy to learn in comparisson to the other engines so in all honesty i never took that as false advertising as it actually is the easiest engine to use to get something up and running. The only downside for me was lua which im semi ok with now so no m8 stick to what you have as it is true.

Alas, I have already made steps to change the tagline and it makes sense to do so as it seems some Steam users do get a little mislead with the description, and it's utterly fair to state that making good original games is not easy, and gaining the fandom and respect of Steam players (one of the major final destinations for your game) is even harder. The new tagline (inspired by community feedback and secret for now) should resolve this scenario but keep the 'openness' message squarely intact and if anything widening the scope to allow both beginners and indies to be content with the product messaging. Expect the reveal around September/October

it's not that game guru is hard or not easy to use. it's the limitation and the draw backs of the feature that game guru is missing. I myself find this game engine easy to use. It just needs more of an open easy to use feature system.

I agree MANY if not MOST users who stick around find GameGuru a hundred times easier than say coding a game from scratch. I also think it's one of the easier solutions for making 3D games out there, but there are enough reports through Steam reviews, support mail and email that indicate some users feel cheated that they bought the product because it said making games was 'easy', and then they found out they had to create levels, script logic, design custom graphics and work through the ordeals of a game developer, i.e. they found it 'hard' and did not make a game they wanted. Users will arrive with an expectation to make a specific game, the product says it's 'easy', and they find they cannot create the game they had in mind, so the reaction is that it is 'not' as easy as was promised and it's the products fault. By removing 'easy' from the promise, the user is left with a more general statement that this is a game maker. How easy or hard that game maker is will now be a personal journey.

Thanks to some community feedback, we are also changing the product description to remove the suggestion that you can create anything and that all features are available and comprehensive. This will be achieved by updating the actual capabilities of the existing features and pointing to the voting board to make it clear which features are not yet implemented. As you know features are being added all the time, but its important new users know where it stands now and what might be coming in the near future, so as to manage expectations as best as possible.

Personally, I think it will be some time still before GameGuru can produce commercial quality 3D games that can rival the best of Steam, and if anyone is working on a serious game project, I would dissuade them from using a game maker that is still very much in development.

I think its actually possible. Some of the leading 3D indie games on Steam are not even that complex. They just have a solid gameplay foundation, good performance and a great concept. Only limitations I find in GG around this, is sometimes the AI breaks so the game play is than negatively effected. Also the weapons are very stiff and limited in how you can use their different animations. Has a very clunky PS1 feel which makes the games made with it feel dated. Even with excellent weapon models. Also the inability to create custom projectiles is a limitation in creativity. Most of the GG games turn out to being very much the same and identifiable to one another, due to that.

A great example of a game that I can see doing quite well on steam, is dimoxinil's prototypes:
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/217908

For me to create the "game of my dreams" in GG and to be publishable id just need:
- multiple vegetation
- directional dynamic light
- ability to change sun direction via LUA
- skybox changing in LUA
- water controls in LUA and editor (similar to FPSCx10)
- swimming default script (mine isn't the best. Prefer how it worked in FPSCx9 and FPSCx10)
- ability to actually use the custom projectiles with my custom weapons
- ability to find entities in the editor on complex maps
- ability to draw entities (without overlap) in a drawing mode (and in grid mode)
- Integrated EBE functionality into the Entity Editing Mode (i personally dont use the EBE)
- AI currently seems to break out of no where

I have a current game project that would benefit from all of the above.

So for myself I'm quite limited but there are some great examples in the WIP section on the forum of some work that I could see doing very well on Steam. Especially dimoxinil's work. The Steam community there can be harsh if they familiarize a game with a bad game. So having GG have the abiity to allow as much customization as possible to create a unique looking and playing game is the way to go.

Most games (not all) that are made with GG and published on Steam are done so by people searching on Google for an easy game engine that they can make a quick buck off. This greatly negatively affects the rest of us who take your tool seriously. I've spoken to a few of the developers and they saw no problem with the negative reviews and the damage to future GG developers, as they had already made 100's of dollars with their quick publications.