Heeeey all!

So I was bored this evening and has the idea of revamping the UI of the GameGuru Editor. To be honest, the current UI seems quite aged (at least I think so) and seeing that GameGuru is not FPSC, they should not look the same.

So here we go friends, tell me what you think (best viewed at 1920x1080). Right click on it and say "View Image" or "Open Image in new tab"

General Layout:



Link to Full View http://mypixelbox.net/generic/GG-editor-next-gen.jpg

Scene Entity Browser and Window layout selection:



Link to Full View http://mypixelbox.net/generic/GG-editor-next-gen-2.jpg

Sorry TGC, hope this isn't some kind of intrusion. Just thought it'd be a cool idea.

Now, I must finish this wine and continue with my game.

Looks really cool! I definitely agree that the UI needs worked on and this is a great concept

that's actually pretty dang sweet. I like it.

I actually like that

I imagine they'll update the GUI sometime down the line. But I admit that looks pretty sweet.

Does look very nice.

That looks good. The GUI needs an overhaul and I believe it is an aspect that is being looked at. I think if, or rather when TGC start on changing the GUI, they should certainly take note of suggestions off forum users.

For example. I feel that the current system, although fine overall, lacks a decent way of checking over a level. It would be nice to have a list of every entity on the map that exists for instance. With info regarding any scripts the entity uses easily viewable and accessible. At the moment it is easy to lose track of items with scripts unless you know the game inside out. Not a problem when first making it, but more so 12 months on, if we decide to go back to an old project.

Very clear and has a more professional feel to it. Great work!
I really like the idea of brushes. especially for landscapes!

It is probably the one thing that makes GG seem too alike to Classic FPSC and why there are so many comparisons, if they revamp the UI it will feel far more like it has moved on.

Nice look to that interface! I'd consider giving it all of my votes on the feature request! I agree that the current one is dated. To me the current gui is stuck in win95 mode. It's a purely utilitarian interface. While functional, and has been sufficient for many other programs since, it lacks the eye candy of modern applications. I don't really care one way or the other, as long as I know where things are, and those things suit my needs, but pretty is, well, pretty! Like DVader said, a list of what is currently on the map would be nice, and worthy of an update on it's own.

it looks nice but I don't like it. I like the way guru editor is now would not change a thing.

I like it quite a bit.

@Dvader, got you covered. Look at the tabs on the entity library panel. It says "Entity Library, Scene Assets, Lua Editor". Clicking on scene assets will give you a list of all current used entities.

@Everyone, thanks for the kind comments.

Perhaps I'll expand this slightly and give more thorough details on each element.

looks cool, reminds me of Unity. Good job

Great job I like it quite a lot, I agree the GUI definately needs an update.

I really like the idea.
But do not forget that all tabs must be concealable, since we need room to work.

3com

I could see these tabs being detachable for multi monitors. That would be great.

only reason why people are saying the gui is out dated because of fpsc. if fpsc was never made and this was TGC first approach in the easy game maker software. then who's to say it has an out dated gui in the first place. 3d max and fragmotion been using the same gui for years as well other game engines. without fpsc guru would not be much of an idea game engine that it is today. I hate the fact that people still compare this engine to other game engines as they did with fpsc. guru is in a league of it's own and to try to put it in a league with other engines takes from it as a original ideal easy game maker. keeping it simple and easy is the original ideal and needs to stay that way. to compare guru with other engines and trying to change it to look like other game engines takes away the simple easy ideal. fpsc is what started this and guru is taking that same concept to the next level of easy game maker with more feature and better graphics. it was never plan to have a professional look as the professional look never looks easy to use. just give you more tabs to play with and keeping you confused as a beginner. a clean simple and open wide window gui is the best way like guru is now.

for example I use 3d max because of the easy to use bip models and export them over to dx format then finish the model with fragmotion things like scaling or path the texture map and so on. because I can easily now my way around fragmotion better than 3dmax. 3dmax has the professional look but fragmotion has the easy to use look.

I don't like unity or udk gui which is the reason I choose fpsc over them any day. now guru is bigger better and faster then fpsc. guru feels more up to date for me and yet keeps the same concept as fpsc. guru has the best of both worlds as a easy to use concept like fpsc also a professional game maker that will soon have more feature. I don't care for what udk and unity have and what their game engine look like. I don't want my games to look like they were made with udk or unity. my expectation from guru is not to make games that look like COD or plays like other fps or 3rd person games. My expectation from guru is to make fun game to play without taking a life time making the game. My expectation from guru is to make interesting game that allow me to focus more gameplay and level design.

Apparently, from the vast detail accounts of people asking for more than the current interface, you are mistaken in what GG should be. But, putting that aside, as I have suggested several times before, GG could have a flexible user interface and multiple selectable defaults much like you see in Daz Studio. When you first open Daz, it has the super easy beginner mode interface with just what you need to do the basics. But they have at least 2 other pre-defined modes that you can select from a menu and those modes unlock more tabs, windows, etc.., with one of the modes being for advanced users.

If you restrict the engine to just beginner, easy-peasy mode, then you'll lose more than half your audience. And maybe there's a reason why it keeps getting compared to other engines. People expect more and want more.

you are right daz has that type mode so if Lee would agree to do this would be nice to keep the original gui and add something like this as another mode. I also don't like daz tabs as it can be hard to find some things. yes everyone going to want this overall but the funny thing is most people who have guru still don't know you can press "B" for other mode to place models and you can press "R" to rotate. most did not know fpsc have those same function. people get lost in easy-peasy mode so anything more advanced will give others to complain about. yes I know I am alone about this but in the beginning when reload was being work on some I always thought they should do the engine under direct x11 and now look where we are today they tried to avoid that but to find out the only way to get most of the features in the engine is to do it under DX11. everyone on here points in different direction in where the engine should then blame TGC for not having a real game plan in the order of this engine. so just because most of the people may want this does not mean it is the right direction for this engine. if TGC want to keep the gui as easy as possible, adding more tabs and a smaller window editor is not the way to go. a game engine editor is like an artist canvas you want to focus more on the painting and less on the mess.

also the engine is not restricted to just beginner but anyone who use fpsc in the past benefit from this as well. just like the prefabs that most did not used in fpsc extra tabs just become for show for most or how often do anyone use flight mode. I would say just let the gui ride, after all the of the feature are put in guru and if that is still the issue we all can come back to this later.

I disagree. If you make the interface customizable and have presets for beginner to advanced then the user is in control and can make the interface anyway is most comfortable for them to work. So, this would include dockable/undockable windows as well. It doesn't become more complicated unless you want to unlock or open up those tabs and windows. And people that unlock those options like it that way.

i like it but i like the entity bar at the side more, it just gives more work space.... but if we could move everything, hide & show anything and resize everything then i honestly dont care what it looks like, pink with bows is fine

i agree that the editor needs more functions and better control over the functions we do have (exact values for rotation, scale position etc, the ability to tick a box to apply a setting to all entities with the same name via properties, the ability to search for entities - both in the list and the map - , different brushes & a quicker / more precise way to resize it... and many more)

i like the current "very basic" layout though, its very easy to learn and use, so it would be great to get the ability to minimise most of this stuff until it's needed.

@smallg, you've got the right idea. As a very basic example, imagine we suddenly have a scene hierarchy window and we can click on an item and see its properties instantly in an inspector. But, listen to what comes next. The default GG doesn't even show it and you wouldn't even know it was there. Yet, you could go to a Window menu and select Scene Hierarchy and then it suddenly appears. It's something that only advanced users are going to want and will certainly use. And, you could have a place where you could reset the GG editor to the default view (i.e. easy-peasy mode), in the event that you accidentally enable some stuff and can't figure out how to get rid of it.

The more I look at it the more I like it
I have to agree with everyone's comments really for the old and the new or a bit of both.

I think at some point as development continues and GameGuru gets more features and more complex a new interface may naturally evolve .. I hope Lee sees this though ...It still does look like GameGuru ... but with Bells and Whistles as they say

You mean an intelligent team will take intelligent input from users and make deliberate changes?
::shudders at the word evolve::

Well when I say evolve I mean " where are we going to put this " ..." Well lets move that here and add this "
Or as you state .... many users have suggested this etc so yes a bit of both perhaps ....
But maybe not intentional changes its just something they have to do as GG Develops ...

Accidental changes? Hmmm. If you say so.

I always felt that GG's interface looked too ...bright with rounded edges so we don't hurt ourselves. There's 'easy game maker' and then there's 'baby's first gamemaker'. Classic FPSC looked more professional side by side in my opinion. I like the idea of dockable/ level oriented presets. If I knew where the interface artwork was I would have customized mine a long time ago. I understand the reason for the way it looks now but would definitely like a more pro option. The only function I would add to give maximum work area are dock tabs that are translucent and set at the very bottom and sides which when clicked pull out the customizable work tabs. This way everything looks nice and clean. Just my opinion.

This was very similar to what we were all purposing very early on but it was rejected very early on.

I strongly advocated for an item tree function. Doubt we'd ever get it. Or we'd have to vote for it... meh. I can't think of a single decent game engine that doesn't have an item tree function with search bar.

Anywho I won't get into more about that.. i'll just end up ranting as always.

Hey everyone. This was just an idea. Please don't let things get heated in here.

The first post has been updated. It shows the menu to select your layout type and it shows the "Scene Entities" browser to show what's on the current map. You could search through your assets and event filter by name/time added and category (entity folder).

Landman, anytime you offer something different, it seems, discussions tend to warm up at the very least! We all have different opinions on pretty much everything. I am content with the interface as it is, yet there are things I wish were there. (Tree view of the scene at least) Like tomjscott said, the DAZ interface is nice in that it offers different options "out of the box". In DAZ Studio you can also customize your interface to suit your needs and save that gui as well. You can customize multiple interfaces to suit whatever you are doing. I believe Blender can do that as well, though I've never tried it, as it would make it very difficult to follow the tutorials online. Talk about a complex interface! As I mentioned earlier, the current interface, while aged in appearance, is utilitarian. It suits it's purpose. Further additions to the engine (features) will, of course, necessitate changes to the interface, as syncromesh said. But then again, pretty is pretty! Thanks, Landman!

love it clean and less strain on your eyes easy to navigate would love this as a custom interface if fully functionable mabie add to gg menu to switch for pro mode if desired please just release it already as a choice for users can be launched separate i presume as a mod interface. does not have to be integrated into GG.

I am happy enough with the current interface. I have used GG a lot so it is certainly not a problem for me. I can understand MXS's view on this (I know it, why change it!). But I also believe, that it can be improved: as said, alternate options could be possible, many other programs do this with a beginner/advanced mode or similar. I don't feel that the current interface covers all bases and as such needs improvement.

We need a basic search facility. Firstly, to find items we own, anyone who has a lot of media will agree, it is hard to find the item you are looking for, even if you know what it is. If you can't remember the artists name, you end up searching through a whole lot of categories before finding it. Secondly, to find items in your current map. other engines will let you see the entire list, which really helps with old maps you are not current with. Currently, with GG, you have to select each item on the map to check it's properties. Fine when first making a game, not so good if you come to update it later on, as there is no way to tell which item has scripts attached. It becomes a slow haul checking items you THINK you applied scripts to.

The new update will address a few general usability issues, such as box select and ctrl to add new selections which is a step in the right direction. But still, the interface could be so much better overall, without making it much more complex. It may take a bit of time to re-adjust, but overall I think it would be worth it.

Absolutely! I had been using the "RECENT" feature under the "Purchased" directory since it displayed everything I had bought in the store. Several weeks ago it started crashing GG. This was after a pretty large purchase. I currently have about 5.6GB of assets in the "Purchased" directory. Is there perhaps a size limit to the "RECENT" function?

@Jerry

My Purchased folder is bigger than yours by a few gig so I don't think there is a limit ...
So far no problems with mine crashing ?

@ syncromesh

I don't know what is causing it then, I can open each individual artist's folder with no problem. I swear it started right after purchasing a ton of assets. I will try a check of the integrity through Steam (odd, I never even thought of that this time, lol, I've done it enough!) Thanks!


EDIT: Didn't work. Will try it on my desktop next. This isn't a major issue to me, btw. I can live with it. I often just move stuff around to a specific game folder for whatever I'm working on, anyway, so it's all in one place and easy to find. Will update on the desktop in a few.

EDIT: Does the same on my desktop. I keep these two machines more or less in sync (software, drivers (including video), etc) with what is installed, so typically what I experience on one is the same on the other. The last time I had an issue with GG (when it was Reloaded), I was the only who had it (both machines), and even with support it wasn't resolved until the next release (magic?). Anyway, like I said, not a big deal. The next release will probably clear this up. The C++ upgrade will have it's own issues which will be sorted out in short time, I'm sure! Nothing more to see here!

My issue isnt the UI design. Its the limitations and restrictions and missing must have functionalities you'd expect with an editor. It was hard enough to convince TGC for an undo button and the ability to move objects on a visble Y/X/Z axis.

Just saw this, I would love a more advanced UI for game guru, and this looks really good, nice work Landman. Hopefully one day Guru evolves into a more sophisticated game engine that sports a UI like this, I am excited for the future.

@Teabone: funny story - I remember posting in the FPSC featurecreep board back in 2007 for a XYZ Gizmo to move entities. You don't want to know how much i jumped for joy when that feature was added earlier this year... it took them a while but it finally happened

Hmmm, I don't just like this idea, I want that UI!

As far as young people are concerned, they will learn the tool. And the more professional interface shouts ' not just an easy game maker - but also a Game Dev Tool for professionals.

Come on - let's do this

OldFlak....

woooow very professional interface

Awesome looking interface... love the idea of the different brushes as well Good concept!

@ Jerry Tremble. I get the crash as well, and I too recently purchased a pack with over 130 items in. Since then, I cannot load up recently purchased at all without a complete crash (task manager needed).

@DVader, thanks, it's good to not be alone with an issue! Not that I wish problems on others, but at least it may be reproducible and therefore corrected.

Are you serious? An undo button is a necessity and the ability to move objects along Y/X/Z is just a basic feature in any "Game Editor".

@Everyone, thanks for the kind words. Glad you like it. I have a few more ideas on how things can be improved, do you think it's worth me doing a few mockups of the ideas?

Personally I love your idea it balances the ease of GG development with the professionalism of any AAA engine. I too think Guru should have an option of choosing your interface and would love to see your proposed idea developed even further!

A lot of good points here, and highlights a warning here that any changes I make to the GameGuru GUI will be met with an equal share of excitement and disappointment We DO have plans to change the IDE, not just a re-chuffle of the Windows Style buttons and menus, but an elimination of the Windows style altogether, replaced with a full-screen editing view, overlayed with dark glass panels rendered under the new DX11 graphics engine. It would allow us to turn the thumbnails into actual rotating 3D selections, toolbar buttons that can highlight to indicate the mode you are in, to scale the panels back so you have a full-screen editing view, or activate more panels to fit in the new ideas we all want to see like scene trees for entity discovery, lower-level property panels for advanced users and of course script editing in-editor and in-game. We also intend to run test-level prep work in the background to almost eliminate the time between clicking the test level button and playing the game, all delivered through a consistent full-screen 3D experience. I've kept dark on these details while we worked on performance, but it's been creeping into conversations recently and this seems a perfect thread to give you more details on it. While never getting as complex as say the Blender interface, we will need plenty space for the additional settings you will want access to when making your game, so folding all these panels off to the side so you can still get a huge area to edit and play your game seems the way forward. All the buttons you see on screen now will still be available of course, but a new interface will allow us to position them better. I did like the opening re-imagining of the GameGuru IDE and gives you some idea of the possibilities and when this task becomes the top voted feature, we can throw out some paper designs to the community and come up with a layout we all like.

Please don't make GG as complex as Blender! ;p

Please, just please don't ever do this. I can't imagine anyone who makes games ever wanting a full-screen editor of this nature. We need a windowed interface and one where you can dock and undock windows and move and re-size them wherever we want. So we can have an editor view and a game view that could even be on a different monitor if I so choose. A fullscreen editor would be unbelievably horrible.

A couple of days ago I submitted suggestions for an UI and help system. Now I'm drooling over how much more clever everyone is.

I want it all!


EDIT... hey you know what would save space, show off the DX11 & be unique? Property boxes with a corner button that when clicked let them spin on the horizontal axis to reveal the back of the box with additional features. It's be a flashy way to incorporate a simple categorization system. Toggles, sliders and basic info on the front side and numerical, file location and such field on the back. Reduces the need for scrolling large options lists and sets an easy to remember sorting mechanic into the editor.