EDIT :
The bug is fixed. Friday's release should allow builds without any collision bugs.
Many thanks to Lee and Rick who worked most of the day on this major issue.
Cheers.
END EDIT
--------------
A video that clearly explains the problem :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx_c1sJna7Q
If you must participate in this test, bring the latest version of Max EA.
Previous versions are not relevant for this test.
---------------
Hi all,

For some time now I have been having problems with collisions in Max for many 3D objects. For example, a house with Polygonal collisions turns into a Box, without asking anything. Or, it loses all its collisions, preventing me from going inside. So I pass through the walls of the house, like a ghost.

I would like to provide you with a very easy little test to help me determine if other users are seeing the same problem with just one specific object. Use one of your maps to do this quick test.

1/ Go to Max's Object Library, and search for "Moulded Barrier Ruined".


2/ Place it on the ground, and click on it.
For me, this element appears by default, with polygonal collisions.
Is this also the case for you ?


3/ Now do a TestLevel, and try to pass through it.
I can't pass. And you ?

4/ So, I modify the collisions as follows :

I ask for a TestLevel, and there I can pass.

5/ I save the map and close Max. I reopen Max and I load the Map. Theoretically, collisions should be saved.
I ask for a TestLevel and I ask to view the Physics.
Here's what I see... :


Do you see the same thing ?
Can you pass between the two walls ? For obvious reasons, I can't pass. Collision mode does not allow this.

But if I change collisions to Box, then change again to Hull Decomp, I'm going to go between the two walls. Except that these parameters will not be saved when reloading the map The wall is in Hull Decomp mode, but I can't go between the two walls in TestLevel.

I have to start the operation again : change the collision mode, then reset Hull decomp with this object, each time Max is launched. And this sometimes happens on multiple objects...

My question is the following :
Are you seeing the same problem with this object ?

Thank you for you precious help.

EDIT : The same problem with many other Max Library objects, like this :

Downloading the fence collection. Will run your test.

Results:
My decomp hull collision held after following your test.

Before game save and exit.


After re opening the project and level.


Further notes:
When I set the compression and tested the game the first time, I saves the level and then went back to the project editor window, then exited to desk top.

Question for you:
After saving your level, did you press the X in upper right of the editor window to close GG Max?

Thanks for your help.

Answer : Most of the time, I return to the Storyboard after saving the map. Just to save him too. Then I close Max with File, Exit to Desktop. But yes, I sometimes leave Max with the cross, but only when I haven't modified the map.

I just did a new experiment which shows that there may be a problem with the collisions. Max does not detect changes in the map. Look at the name of your map, at the top left of the Max window. If your map is modified, the name of the map is followed by an asterix (*). Select an object and this asterix will appear.

Once selected, save the map. The asterix disappears.

Now modify the collisions of the selected object.
The asterix does not appear... It's not normal.

I did notice with the decomp hull collision, that My test game had to regenerate physics and nav mesh.

That may be an issue, but I save multiple times with any app out of old school habits.
I will check these new tests.

You are correct. No changes are being recorded until you either click another object, or you click on the terrain.
I think that is the real issue here and should be posted to github.

Great find.

Despite all these usual precautions, I am unable to save the modifications of the collisions of this object (and others). Everything disappears after reloading the map. Where I need to find Polygonal collisions or Hull Decomp, I find Box or something else. There is a phenomenon that prevents Max from saving my work. I even sent a map to RickV for analysis : more than 70% of the objects had lost their collisions. And it's impossible to put them back as before (Max ignores the request, or he doesn't save it, or he forgets them when reloading the map, I don't know).

I think I'll do a fresh install of Max, hoping to get access to collisions without encountering this problem, again.

I'll let you know here.

I had them saved and added a new building, changed that to decomp hull collision and the fence collision went away.
What AI that did move with me thru the test game was able to walk thru the fence until another building was added.

Still a lot of work to do on this.

I have video file uploading now.

I had a map (send to Rick) with over 600 3D objects. A fully habitable, very complete house. As if it was mine And a large part of the collisions suddenly disappeared. Unrecoverable work. Max doesn't want to replace the collisions with the ones I'm asking for. This is a very big problem, because as soon as there are a some objects on the map, the problem occurs. This is likely to pose significant problems for developers trying to make decent demo maps for TGC. It's not my case. I'm only testing to help TGC improve Max.

Yes, I can see where this would cause a bunch of headaches and heartaches.

I had the same problem as yours, except my house first became a Box Collision and then turned into No Collision. After that, the house was unrecoverable. Max didn't want to know anything. Failed to retrieve house polygon collisions. As a result, all the inner work was lost, like the map. So, I abandoned it... But I left the map on the web for Rick. But the message I sent him privately on this forum, remained "Unread". However, he was the one who asked me to send him the map!

I mentioned this situation on Github, but I think this problem is much more serious than it seems. From my point of view, it far exceeds other, less serious problems. Because if collisions are lost with only two 3D objects, imagine when there are 50, 100, or 500.

It could demotivate anyone.

Watch this short video :
https://i.gyazo.com/a6f0f11966f5fe8b509d41d649546730.mp4
Several weeks of lost work.
It's not serious for me, but it's serious for Max...

And the problem persists with any object :

I just reinstalled Max.
New Map, with 1 item. And already the problem...

Hello,

I am still using GameGuru MAX alpha 2022-01-14.
In January 2016 Pirate Mike published this tutorial https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/214389 in the GameGuru Classic Board of this forum.
There you can find the values relative to the "Collision Modes".

About the Collision Shape = BOX, I noticed that this one 'currently' offers an enhanced collision's detection as shown with this screen captures :





About UltraVox's test with the object "Moulded Barrier Ruined", I modified its Collision Mode in its .FPE file.
In the original .FPE file, the Collision Mode's value = 9 (I may assume that it enables the "Hull Decomp" in GG MAX).
In the modified .FPE file, the Collsion Mode's value = 1 ( "Polygon").
Result shown in this screen capture when that object is imported with its modified .FPE file :




I also uploaded a video clip (HD MP4 : 216 MBytes = 54 seconds) on my Vimeo account :



where I show that LUA scripting offers enhanced possibilites to control the collisions in GameGuru MAX.

@Mikeven
Thanks for your testing.

I will test immediately by changing the collision of the FPE from 9 to 1.
However, this does not explain the following points :

1/ How can a Hull Convex collision, supposedly saved in Max, be transformed, and go from "Hull Convex" to "Box", without the developer asking Max ?

2/ After finding the collision problem in the TestLevel, why is it impossible to modify and Save the new collisions ?

This morning again, I did a simple test. I added 3 wooden boxes from Max's "Industrial Collection - Boxes" pack :

Everything was going well for the first two. But when dropping the third, the first box became "No Collision", while it was set to "Box".

So, there is a real problem of collisions with Max.
There is no longer any doubt.

From my own experience with this problem, for several weeks : when you think you have fixed the problem on 1 object, in reality, the problem is "transferred" to another object. It can be any other object on your map. Drop several objects until you get the collision problem, then try to fix this problem. If you succeed, the problem has been "transferred" to another object on the map.

This is precisely what happened in Mike's test video.

@Mikeven
You are right. Setting the collision to 1 instead of 9 in the FPE file resolves the issue for this object. Except that it generates other problems : as explained before, the problem has been "transferred" to several other objects.

For example :
1/ This wall lamp was set to "No Collision". She turned into "Box". Who allowed Max to modify collisions without developer approval ?

2/ I had set this scanner to "Hull Decomp" in Max's interface.

But Max gives me a "Box" collision in the TestLevel.

The question that arises is the following : Why does Max allow himself to modify the collisions of several objects ?

UltraVox,

Of course each new alpha versions brings unexpected results in projects created with previous versions.
I must admit that is sometimes frustrating.

in this thread https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/223154, I posted this comment :



Argent_Arts (who posted that thread) replied :


Belidos confirmed Argent_Arts's comment with this reply :


In the video the link of which is mentioned in my previous comment in your thread I show a very surprising BOX collision.
Inside the green cube-shaped object rotating and partly immersed in the water there are two balls colliding inside that objet while some of the balls floating on the water are colliding with the external parts of that object.

Why is it possible ? Because I subdivided the mesh in my modeller.
I made a test with that imported object the mesh of which was not subdivided in my modeller and the Collision Shape was a simple BOX and
the player or any other items couldn't move inside of that object.

This is the script that controls the collisions with that object (subdivided mesh) :



I wrote that script specifically for that object. For general purposes it should be modified. I am still a beginner in Lua scripting.

In that script I tried to control the animation's speed (please read this thread : https://forum.unity.com/threads/about-collisions-failing-on-high-speed.184158/ ).

@mikeven

That's not the case here. Yesterday, I completely reinstalled Max, and used 3D objects provided by Max, on a new Map created by Max. So, the problem of "old projects", if it exists, is another problem that I can easily understand. Yes, it's normal to find problems with old projects. But this is not my case.

At this stage of Max's development, the only thing I want and hope for is that someone high up at TGC give Lee this problem to solve, urgently. Because I don't see how we could create anything with Max if the collisions change with only 1 or 2 objects on the map.

I repeat, it is not about my game projects. This is also not my list of issues, etc. This is a major issue that prevents any decent creation with Max.

When you compare what Max's UI tells you to the physical reality of the map, you realize that almost all object collisions are fake. On a map containing around 600 objects, I estimated at 70% the number of objects having lost their collisions. I could pass through all these objects.

The strange thing is that I talk to people around me, like you and Pirate Mike, but I have the feeling that no one understands the extent of the disaster.

3 revealing screenshots.
I deposit an object of Max. First he tells me that his collision is Hull Decomp. The TestLevel reveals that there is no collision.

I change Collisions to choose Polygons.

The TestLevel reveals that there is no collision...

I find the situation very worrying.

UltraVox, I reloaded an old project and I added that "Rusty Small Industrial Shelves" object.
I placed the animated "Sewer rat" and a few other objects on it.
I saved the uploaded level and I restarted GameGuru MAX.
It seems that each collision is working fine in that level as shown with these two screen captures :

Yes, I am convinced that the reproducibility of the phenomenon is not obvious, and even less so on a non-updated version of Max. Luckily Pirate Mike made a video. I guess it's hit and miss, or random, and it depends on the maps, or the objects used around it. I don't know. But there is a problem that I am not the only one to notice. In all the new maps, it's systematic. So symptomatic of a real problem.

I'm finding it very difficult to follow this thread, not sure if its a language barrier, but a lot of what's being posted just doesn't make sense to me.

Are you saying that when using LUA to turn collision off and on for an object it reverts to a box collision instead of the original collision?

If so then that is correct, in GG Classic (and i assume because Max is using some of classics code, in Max too) when you turn off collision via LUA, then when you turn it back on it will default to box collision if it hasn't been set in the FPE to something else because it doesn't know what the original collision shape was so reverts to default.

@Belidos
The problem is visible in this video. I can't do any better to explain the problem :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx_c1sJna7Q
And this happens on many 3D objects in Max.
We don't understand why.

Ok ,
I just tested much of the military stuff like the
watchtowers and the bunkers and so far..none of them have proper collision since the latest update.
cant go inside or climb any of them even tho collision says POLYGON.
whats up with that ?
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

UNIRD12B

@Belidos;
I don't think UltraVox or Pirate Myke used lua in their tests...? The only person to mention it is mikeven, then you. // I searched this thread document (Ctrl-f; "lua"). (Ctrl-f; "script")//
What I am getting from this thread is that it's pretty certain that MAX is rife with wandering bugaboos- along the same lines as it's predecessor. Mysterious and anomalous apparitions at the construction site. Entities that appear and disappear in the mist. Footprints that lead to... nowhere...?
"The Curse of The Missing Data"
( Sorry- read ALL of The Hardy Boys books in Middle School. Have collected a set of all 1-58 vintage series + Handbook. )
@ MAX; are these map settings features along with the save stand-alone system currently being robustly tested for issues in-house (developer side) and user-wide? My sleuth senses say -Nope. There's only one thing the product is meant to do- after all the work the user puts into it, MAX's end of the bargain as a purchased product is to re-produce the saved compiled executable project as intended. (well, obviously)

well someone @ TGC must know whether they disabled collision or not in the latest version. Alpha/Beta Testers should be given a run down of what has been disabled and what hasn't, simple really.

@Bored of the Rings
Fer sure. Disabling major components without notice, then releasing a "latest test version" to users... another mystery. lol

I've not tested this in awhile, but I had this happening to models I had made and imported into MAX. In all cases, I would set the collision mesh to polygon. Sometimes MAX would keep it that way. In some cases, after testing the game, MAX would convert some of the mesh's collision meshes to box despite me having chosen polygon. I had a map with several of the same object in it and some of the entities kept polygonal collision meshes while others converted over to box collision meshes. It was quite random. Sometimes it happened after a mesh was repositioned or moved a bit.

I'm wondering if when MAX is recalculating the nav mesh it's messing with these collision meshes and relabeling them or some such?

@Argent_Arts
I wouldn't be surprised if that's correct. Max does anything.
I use objects from Max's Library. I don't import anything. Honestly, it's serious...

@GubbyBlips

I confirm that I have not touched the Lua. It's a problem with Max. Only Max with its own Object Library. I have fewer issues with the Medical Pack (almost no problems...), but all items provided by Max lose their collisions.

This problem started a few weeks ago. Maybe 3 weeks at most.
I thought it was me, but no... It's Max.

This issue has been reported ( by the op ) Given High Priority, confirmed as a bug and assigned to Lee.
Perhaps Lee knows its related to work he is carrying out.
My point is why are you guys bashing your head with it ?

@synchromesh


For one simple reason. You yourself explained it on Github : the list of bugs to fix is ​​very long. Except that this one, if it is not corrected very quickly, it will demoralize all the developers who would like to propose a demo map to TGC before the deadline (this is not my case). Should I also mention the simple users who, like me, experienced this bug 3 weeks ago and do not see a correction ? I am the only Max user to report this bug. Nobody intervened to say "Ok, this bug is confirmed". I thought it might be my installation of Max, or whatever. Since nobody confirmed (or not), this bug.

Users (Backer) like me, have no way of knowing if Lee is working, first or not, on this problem. Yes, I reported this bug on Github, and it's marked "High". But bugs classified "High", there are dozens on Github. My fear is that this bug won't be fixed before the time runs out to send the demo maps to TGC. If this is not the case, the maps will not be very demonstrative of Max's real abilities! (all objects will have no collision) And since I wish the best for Max, I created this Post to determine if I was the only Max user seeing this issue. I see that is not the case. But I would have preferred it to come from me.

After i see this , i will stick to unity forever ,and I'll never check game guru max news or forums again.(i dont have enough money or time for waste on ggmax).

@Supe


Max is an Alpha. It is therefore normal to find an astronomical amount of bugs. I don't see what your talk about Unity is doing here. We don't need to know what you are using or intend to use. It's like making a comparison between Unity and Max. This comparison is unnecessary/useless. If you had known the beginnings of Unity, in Alpha or pre-Alpha, you would not have used this language here. All engines have gone through this development phase. She is normal.

In this Post, we are trying to do two things :
1/ Alert TGC to this urgency of collision problems ;
2/ Find a technical alternative in case the problem is not solved before the deadline.

That's all.

If your competent with Unity then probably the best choice for you.
This thread has blown out of proportion
It pretty much boils down to Max is not saving its collisions at the moment.
Your reading to much into it.

I have to agree with Syncro here, I wouldn't look too much into what is an Alpha that's buggy. But then again, I would avoid doing any DEMO level work at least for now. GGMAX is coming on well but needs tons of work/fine tuning, , dev takes time to perfect (or get close to)

What would be useful is if TGC gave all the alpha users a timeline of what is trying to be achieved for March release and when would be best to help test on what parts of Max, e.g. (and I'm just making this up as example)

w/c Feb 14th - storyboard, terrain - complete
w/c Feb 21st - AI, character creator (except for characters with beards)
w/c Feb 28th -
w/c Mar 7th -
etc

So that people willing to help test and get Max in best shape as possible for steam EA release know what is not really ready/stable and what TGC thinks is. Would a bit more structure to users wanting to help test and bug-fixing cycles.

Presently it is very chaotic

Cheers.

@cybernescence

Completely agree with you. The roles are reversed. If it's chaotic, it's because Max bug everywhere. Github is full of bug reports of all kinds. However, with your idea of a timeline, we would only report bugs relating to the work in progress.

I've been trying to get the MAX developers to let us know, each release, what bugs they've fixed (or think they've fixed) and what bugs are not fixed. It's standard practice with most alpha/beta tests. This let's the testers know what to test and what NOT to test (i.e. if a bug has not yet been touched, there's no sense in testing it and reporting it again and again and if a bug is reported as "fixed", the testers and push it to see if it holds, if it can be pushed to breaking). The MAX developers should be doggedly pursuing this collision bug each release until it's fixed. It's a showstopper and core to game development. And we, the testers, should be getting some sort of feedback as to what they've done about it, even if it's very basic (i.e. "We think we found the problem. It should be related to recalculating the nav mesh. Please try moving a static mesh in your level and recalculating the nav mesh to see if the collision mesh stays the same or randomly changes to test.", etc.).

@Argent_Arts


Ok. Did you receive a response ?

If this collision bug didn't exist, I would have gladly offered demo maps. I wouldn't have done it for the small reward (which I would have left to TGC for reinvestment in development). But with this bug, we pass through houses, buildings and objects. I have already "lost" several maps.

Not personally, no. But in one of the live broadcasts, Lee stated they would start giving us a bit more info. Still nothing that I can see has happened in this regard, though. I mean, this is the extent of their changelog.txt file for the latest build:



That's not much to go on compared to all the opened/closed bugs going on over on GitHub (like that lighting bug that we've all been tracking since forever and this collision bug, etc.).

@Argent_Arts
Read the end of this post : https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues/1839
Looks like we got TGC's attention about the collision bug

Yep. Saw that. Been getting the emails from the GitHub replies. Hope to see a fix to that soon. That's a definite showstopper bug there, when your collision types change on the fly.

Yes, I'm very careful about that. There are many objects that do not need to generate collisions. And there are also a lot of objects that don't need Cast Shadow. By removing anything unnecessary, the engine runs fine. But there is still great progress to be made!
For example : activating SSR (Post-Processing) makes me go from 60 FPS to 35

Bug "Maybe" Found (not sur).
Read the last post.
https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues/1839

@UNIRD12B @Pirate Myke
and of course to all Max users.

The bug is fixed. Friday's release should allow builds without any collision bugs.

Many thanks to Lee and Rick who worked most of the day on this major issue.

Cheers.

Awesome, Thank for reporting this.

Yes thanks - it is a royal pain as you say at the moment.

Cheers.

Seeing as there is still a long time of development @ MAX (RPG and Puzzle elements), VR, CC expansion, modern EBE, Multiplayer, Endless and endless Stand-alone de-bugging, LUA additions ( ex; spawn entites via script TEXT work ) and etc, etc and then some,

Maybe something like this *example* would be a bit interesting to see?
https://trello.com/b/NQjLXRCP/flax-roadmap
That info is not fulfilled in GitHub. On GitHub issues (bugs) are notated and filed away, on a roadmap we can look at the progress of features that are expected to be activated, and follow that so there's not so many questions.
** Now to be clear, I'm not expecting this to happen, not even slightly, TGC put out a weekly video, but still what Flax is doing to have it for their community (showing the future) --
that's cool. Nice job Flax. That's a handy visual which makes things interesting.

Update version 28 jan 2022:

Some improvements, but still somethings very wrong.

woo hoo.
Mine are all working again yayyyyyyyyyyyy
check to make sure the collision settings are correct
in any items not still working...

UNIRD12B

@Pirate Myke

I'm very surprised that it doesn't work for you. Even my old maps work perfectly.
What happens when you try to modify the collisions ?
Did you do a full update of Max or only the core ?