Product Chat (Alpha builds) / If you want to improve GameGuru Max Software, read this! (Last chance)

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gamedevelopmentstudio47
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2021 06:36 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2021 09:32
Firstly, I decided to post this on the forum by myself and on behalf of many people who agree with me and have even made some comments on the YouTube channel @GameGuru but never got concrete answers from the software team led by @Lee Bamber!
Second, to say that this is not an attack on @GameGuru products, quite the contrary, if I am here today writing all this and wasting time, it is because I believe or want to believe that I (as a buyer of some @GameGuru products) and these people (even if they haven't bought anything from GameGuru) also have the right to have a voice and to speak in the community, that's what I call democracy and freedom of expression. However, unfortunately, this is not what is currently happening. As George Orwell wisely said, "some pigs more alike than others" seem to exist in the community. Leaving me these comparisons, which below will understand why I use them, I will be extremely direct and sincere about what I think and what I have seen so far from GameGuru Max. About the engine I have seen very little implemented that has remained in my memory. Of all the broadcasts that I practically saw all of or at least took a look at, the one that I thought they implemented was beneficial, in my opinion, was the Character Creator and the Game Project Storyboard. Seriously? That's all they have to offer to people who want to buy the product for 40 or 50 dollars (just for your information, despite living in a European country, there are people here who don't earn that amount per day!) I happen to be I'm suspicious of talking because I bought the classic version of the engine and at the time I bought it, I found the same thing I'm thinking about GameGuru Max's development, a lot of potential and a unique and genuine idea in my opinion (creating games without the need for code) . I don't think it's for lack of work by @Lee and his team, but maybe no one has ever asked him and/or his team if it's to create real games or is it to play and sell an unfinished product like the classic version of engine. From what I'm seeing and honestly, the Max version of the Engine manages to be more limited in almost everything than the classic, it's like the 2.0 of the classic version of the engine. It may even have a few extra things but the structural problems that were seen in the classic version are in the Max version! For example, and to prove what I'm saying, the intelligence of the AI is the same or worse compared to the classic version, this is because in the classic version they could climb stairs and descend, so what I've seen in videos, they can't even do that in this one. On the page that says what Max has to offer in this regard it simply states "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck and navigate around any environment you design." It may even have a few extra things but the structural problems that were seen in the classic version are in the Max version! For example, and to prove what I'm saying, the intelligence of the AI is the same or worse compared to the classic version, this is because in the classic version they could climb stairs and descend, so what I've seen in videos, they can't even do that in this one. On the page that says what Max has to offer in this regard it simply states "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck and navigate around any environment you design." It may even have a few extra things but the structural problems that were seen in the classic version are in the Max version! For example, and to prove what I'm saying, the intelligence of the AI is the same or worse compared to the classic version, this is because in the classic version they could climb stairs and descend, so what I've seen in videos, they can't even do that in this one. On the page that says what Max has to offer in this regard it simply states "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck and navigate around any environment you design." from what I've seen in videos, they can't even do this on this one. On the page that says what Max has to offer in this regard it simply states "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck and navigate around any environment you design." from what I've seen in videos, they can't even do this on this one. On the page that says what Max has to offer in this regard it simply states "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck and navigate around any environment you design." In reality the AI can't do practically anything and what it does is not done well, for example, it walks without considering objects passing over them or getting stuck in them or it can't even chase the player! In other words, the AI can't even do the basics that are on your site or other things like swimming, jumping, climbing stairs, walking, running, etc (to be correct neither the player can). In short, what Max has to offer in AI so far: nothing!!!, not again, not even the smallest things can mostly ensure and do correctly! But let's see so is it on the ground that the Max version has improved? The only thing I see positive is that the size of the terrain has increased to 5km x 5km, although I think it's still very small at least it should be 8km x 8km, although the recommended is 10km x 10km for large projects. I still remember someone from @GameGuru at the beginning saying and promising that the size of the terrain maps would be unlimited, depending on the maximum computer size of each one, but promises anyway... For the rest as for the terrain, from what I saw in the from afar it looks perfect but up close the textures are horrible, there is no way to import heigthmaps for the terrain. There is neither a demo nor the possibility to create a map in winter with snow/ice. Regarding the water, does it seem that everywhere is an ocean? Seriously, there is no way to create rivers, lakes, waterfalls, ground caves with water or regular caves! but finally promises... For the rest as for the terrain, from what I've seen from a distance it looks perfect but up close the textures are horrible, there's no way to import heigthmaps for the terrain. There is neither a demo nor the possibility to create a map in winter with snow/ice. Regarding the water, does it seem that everywhere is an ocean? Seriously, there is no way to create rivers, lakes, waterfalls, ground caves with water or regular caves! but finally promises... For the rest as for the terrain, from what I've seen from a distance it looks perfect but up close the textures are horrible, there's no way to import heigthmaps for the terrain. There is neither a demo nor the possibility to create a map in winter with snow/ice. Regarding the water, does it seem that everywhere is an ocean? Seriously, there is no way to create rivers, lakes, waterfalls, ground caves with water or regular caves! But then if the Max version doesn't have essential tools like AI Intelligence, and the terrain minimally capable of making a modern game, does it have any tools to make a game without necessarily needing code, such as Lua code? To be honest, it seems to be the most positive thing I see in all of this and with a significant evolution from the classic version of the engine! The biggest examples of this are Character Creator and Game Project Storyboard. Despite that I think the @GameGuru team could listen more to people who don't have a voice like me and go further in implementing other things that so many people ask for, which I'll mention and suggest! And is this all worth 40 or 50 bucks? Not! What's the point of having tools that help you not necessarily need to use code, without having minimally functional, complete and effective terrain/water/atmosphere tools or AI? It's not worth anything, the idea is authentic and there it is "creating games without code" but you can't just rely on that, a real software/engine to create games isn't just that! Basically, your job was just that for 1 year. Attention, I'm not saying that @Lee and his team don't work, nothing like that and on the contrary, I'm just not satisfied with the way things are going with the Max version and I don't think they hear enough from the community, especially of comments from new people even on the @GameGuru YouTube channel. Someone also tell me why this is everything on the forum, it would not be easier for everyone, for example, there is disagreement, secahar even exists but only for some, that is, for the older members of the community who, in my opinion, dictate what will be done with the Max version. People like me don't care, as much as they are on the brink of developing the Max engine, they continue in favor of the minority, the so-called "pigs more equal than others" sincerely, I start to suspect everything even if there aren't two versions of the engine, because, in broadcasts, the version that @Lee has almost never bugs or has problems, but anyway. My suggestions for improving the engine are and with a degree of importance to improve or add to the engine in my opinion:
1. Intelligence/AI and Player Movements: Very Important
2. Animations: Skeletal animation, Parametric Skeletal Animation - Very Important
3. Flow graphs: Cutscene creator (Very Important), Weapons creator (Very Important), Vehicle creator (Important), Particle Editor (Very Important)
4. Terrain/Vegetation: Seasons Field Simulator (Spring, Summer, Winter, Autumn)/ (Thunderstorm, Rain, Snow, Sandstorms)/ Interactive and destructible environments - nuclear explosion, earthquakes, hurricanes (Important), Dynamic environment mapping/Dynamic vegetation (Very Important), Eye Adaptation & High Dynamic Range (HDR) (Very Important), Ground Tessellation (Very Important), Being able to create caves on the ground (terrain) and a way to import heigthmaps (Very Important), Larger terrain map size between 8km x 8km (minimum), 10km x 10km (recommended) (Slightly important, however in my opinion and thinking for me if it was bigger 8km x 8km/10km x 10km or more it would be better for the project I intend to do. ,despite what I said about this engine probably on November 30th which is when it's supposedly and in principle pre-ordered on steam I'm going to buy it, even to see if there's any progress and you've listened to my advice), Road tools (Important)
5. Sounds and audio: Dynamic sounds and interactive music/Environmental audio (Slightly Important) 6. Water: Interactive Water, Ocean simulation (FFT), Rivers/Lakes/Waterfalls Tools (Very Important)
7. Clouds Tools (Important)
8. Real time planar reflections, Lighting HDR rendering, Translucent colored shadows, Volumetric light scattering/Volumetric ligthting, Global Illumination (Very Important)
9. Multithreaded rendering/Multicore Support (Very Important)
10. Improved Physics (Very Important).
I hope you take into consideration some of the suggestions I present to you, as most are in Wicked Engine, others in CryEngine 2 released with the game Crysis dating back to 2007!!!, or CryEngine 3 later on. I honestly don't understand why they don't implement some of these suggestions that greatly improved the Max engine, they promise an engine for modern games, but they don't implement many things in it that "old"/not older engines already have for a long time and that still haven't implemented - many of them such basic things!!! I hope that on November 30th or when it's pre-order there's a pleasant surprise!

[video=mp4]I end with two quotes from some comments I read about someone's GameGuru Max engine:
“I've been saying this for a long time. But they don't seem to hear certain suggestions coming from certain people. They continue to make the same mistakes of the past and prefer to sell an unfinished product, without having the basic and essential tools to create a modern game, creating illusions in potential buyers or buyers of the product. However, we have to be realistic they cannot do everything, because they are a small team and with many limitations as far as I know, but they should, in my opinion, define their priorities better and not only follow the suggestions/advice of the community more " long time (the summit) and forget the opinion of others who later heard about this software. I don't understand even more, because in this software they use the Wicked Engine, and they don't implement most of its features such as Volumetric lighting, Global illumination, Dynamic vegetation, Basic water Sims, interactive ground tessalation in addition to what I already mentioned at the beginning. Thanks @GameGuru Attention, so there's no doubt, I love this engine, especially the basic idea, but I think that what Lee and his team aren't necessarily going the right way because by reducing the decisions of what to do and implement in the engine for a restricted group of people forgetting all the others, and when that is so, the essential problems are not solved or mitigated, so much so that they forget to implement the most basic as I was talking about. And I also don't think it's simply ignoring or deleting more negative or constructive comments like mine that the engine will improve.” “@GameGuru if you have to put a higher price to your product do it but, at least make a complete engine please, because i think people like me deserve that because that people see what i see: since classic you have a great potencial but you need to work hard on it, more and more that the rigth now effort, i know you can do it, if you need more time to do it take it, because the people that love the gameguru will wait, we will wait, i will wait if necessary,but please do not let your hopes fall and sell us an unfinished product. I think we deserve more than that!!!”

Links:
https://github.com/turanszkij/WickedEngine/blob/master/features.txt
http://index-of.co.uk/Game-Development/Programming/CryENGINE%202%20Features.pdf
https://crysis.fandom.com/wiki/CryENGINE_3

[MOD EDIT]
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2021 06:47 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2021 07:01
great, I'm all for free speech. You have repeated yourself ,can't you cut down the following text in your post, I think you must have copied and pasted a few time :
Quote: " "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck and navigate around any environment you design." It may even have a few extra things but the structural problems that were seen in the classic version are in the Max version! For example, and to prove what I'm saying, the intelligence of the AI is the same or worse compared to the classic version, this is because in the classic version they could climb stairs and descend, so what I've seen in videos, they can't even do that in this one. On the page that says what Max has to offer in this regard it simply states "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck and navigate around any environment you design." from what I've seen in videos, they can't even do this on this one. On the page that says what Max has to offer in this regard it simply states "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck and navigate around any environment you design." from what I've seen in videos, they can't even do this on this one. On the page that says what Max has to offer in this regard it simply states "The player and AI bots can walk, run, duck "


Also, please split your text into paragraphs! It's really hard to read!
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Belidos
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2021 10:27
Dude, sentences and paragraphs, i'm not going to read that mess.
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OldFlak
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2021 10:35
eeerrrrmmmm:
- sentences are good
- paragraphs are real good

Without these two key elements to novel writing, you essentially have a wall of text that no-one would read.

The only bit I actually took any note of was the links to cryengine.
If cryengine has all the stuff in that wall of text - and you really need and can utilize it - then it might be best to use that perhaps, because even if they wanted to add it it would be years away anyhow....

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Posted: 3rd Nov 2021 10:52
Quote: " because i think people like me deserve that"

People like you.....
who are you?
Have you at least followed all the Max live broadcast?,......... if you did then you would know its still in development.!!!!

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2021 11:59
Max has the potential to be a AAA game engine but its still in early access so many things are still being worked on.

If you really want to be heard the best way is to start actually using the software and post any issues or suggestions you have individually on Github where the developers will see them and give them consideration.

I would suggest watching the monthly overview videos on Youtube which give you a summary of what has been done each month and then you can start following the weekly streams which showcase the features included in the next build for you to use.

Max has been heavily discounted for almost 2 years now so you could have paid much less than $50 to get the software. It is likely Max will also be discounted on Steam from time to time as with GG classic.

If you want all of the features of CryEngine right now you can always use CryEngine whilst Max is in early access.
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 00:37 Edited at: 4th Nov 2021 01:18
"Max has the potential to be a AAA game engine"
....... only if they come out of their entrenched shell and SUPPORT scripters/ scripting = AAA style.

"you can always use CryEngine whilst Max is in early access."
.......Yup. Free game creators are everywhere.
The big three (or 4) if you add Godot.
Then there's the interesting new kid on the block Core;
https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/developer-interviews/built-on-unreal-engine-core-aims-to-make-game-development-accessible-to-the-masses

@gamedevelopmentstud.......
Looks like the most requested features absent GG/MAX are there in Core.
I fear once the initial release of MAX occurs, less effort will go into subsequent "features"/ genres so waiting might not be an option? Funnily, that's a wait to see if it's true!

I agree with a couple things on your list. Initially these;
Particle editor = provided via DLC? I haven't seen any deep demos.
4-- Some kind of road tool would be nice, but is the incline brush adequate?
6++ Yeah good control of many water features is an important game engine staple.

I could go through your whole list, but it's a tad jumbled. You just have to admit that certain things you are requesting are better left off to: A: custom scripting / custom artwork/ custom game creation > in general!
and/ or B: 3D model software
Right now the specific thing I'd like to see promised for GGMAX is wait-for-it.... ta-da!
>ENTITES SPAWNED VIA SCRIPT< Yay. Anything else?
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gamedevelopmentstudio47
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 00:51
Hello again,

From my words written here most of the community must hate me but finally someone gave me good and understandable arguments in a respectful way.

I thank that person very sincerely.

I add everything I said is as if it were half the truth, as I was basing myself on older elements like Alpha Builds. He used the right words and I understood right away.

I think other people have told me this in another way before but I didn't understand. Thank you so much @synchromesh for making me see this fair point.

I would like to ask the administrator if it was possible to open again: Product Chat (Alpha builds) / [LOCKED] I tried, but they don't even want to hear me...GG Max and close this: Product Chat (Alpha builds) / If you want to improve GameGuru Max Software, read this! (Last chance), which I am writing because the first one is more complete and I added and edited the text more or less in paragraphs.

Besides, I have some specific questions I wanted to ask! Now that I understand the Alpha build concept minimally I can only wait to see more developments from the team led by @Lee Bamber from GameGuru Max as watching Wednesday's lives is almost a habit, and to give my suggestions.

Call me what you want but without being aware of what I said earlier and seeing everything the same from my perspective (which it wasn't) every week I was getting a little sad and discouraged!

I hope you understand!
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gamedevelopmentstudio47
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 01:13
My suggestions are basically the ones I've already posted but I'll post it here again!

My suggestions for improving the engine are and with a degree of importance to improve or add to the engine in my opinion:

1. Intelligence/AI and Player Movements: Very Important

2. Animations: Skeletal animation, Parametric Skeletal Animation - Very Important

3. Flow graphs: Cutscene creator (Very Important), Weapons creator (Very Important), Vehicle creator (Important), Particle Editor (Very Important)

4. Terrain/Vegetation: Seasons Field Simulator (Spring, Summer, Winter, Autumn)/ (Thunderstorm, Rain, Snow, Sandstorms)/ Interactive and destructible environments - nuclear explosion, earthquakes, hurricanes (Important), Dynamic environment mapping/Dynamic vegetation (Very Important), Eye Adaptation & High Dynamic Range (HDR) (Very Important), Ground Tessellation (Very Important), Being able to create caves on the ground (terrain) and a way to import heigthmaps (Very Important), Larger terrain map size between 8km x 8km (minimum), 10km x 10km (recommended) (Slightly important, however in my opinion and thinking for me if it was bigger 8km x 8km/10km x 10km or more it would be better for the project I intend to do. ,despite what I said about this engine probably on November 30th which is when it's supposedly and in principle pre-ordered on steam I'm going to buy it, even to see if there's any progress and you've listened to my advice), Road tools (Important)

5. Sounds and audio: Dynamic sounds and interactive music/Environmental audio (Slightly Important) 6. Water: Interactive Water, Ocean simulation (FFT), Rivers/Lakes/Waterfalls Tools (Very Important)

7. Clouds Tools (Important)

8. Real time planar reflections, Lighting HDR rendering, Translucent colored shadows, Volumetric light scattering/Volumetric ligthting, Global Illumination (Very Important)

9. Multithreaded rendering/Multicore Support (Very Important)

10. Improved Physics (Very Important).

I now have questions and suggestions that I would like to be properly answered!

1. How long more or less will GameGuru Max be in pre-order on steam/saying otherwise do they have a deadline to release the definitive version of GameGuru Max?

2. One suggestion, I don't think they should launch the GameGuru Max version on steam on 30/11/2021. Speaking for myself, I didn't understand the concept of Alpha and many can see or realize that there haven't been many developments but in fact, every week/day GameGuru Max is always changing, which can lead to a series of very negative reviews on steam. I think the best solution was the previous one and used so far: to be in pre-order on the GameGuru website! At least until the AI ​​and player intelligence as well as the animations are even more "worked"!

Thanks!
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 02:33 Edited at: 4th Nov 2021 02:33
If you think the older, or more vocal. community members influence the direction of GameGuru more than the new users... I got some bad news for you... they don't.

All of your suggestions have been suggested countless times. Yup there is still no real swimming(maybe this is still coming with Max? hopefully?). Yup the A.I is equal or worse than classic. All your bullet points, people have asked for that stuff or similar things for years. If it were up to me the first thing I'd fix is the 1999 era blood splats.

The way you feel is how many of us felt years and years ago. I think most of the older members now have just become apathetic.
Welcome to the club.


If you find a bug and report it, the bug will probably be fixed though.
synchromesh
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 08:39 Edited at: 4th Nov 2021 09:35
Quote: "I think most of the older members now have just become apathetic."

No us older member are just more realistic. If it was all so easy you would be creating your own engine.
Lee and a team of less than 10 cannot create million dollar engines like Unreal, Cryengine who have hundreds of programmers at their disposal. The engines with features you want to create AAA games already exist as you have mentioned.
If Max is not for you then move on to them. Its that simple. I would if that's the engine i really wanted.
No one is held to ransom here to purchase or use Max.

Besides all that Github would be the best place to post your requests or ask on the Live Stream if you want a direct answer from the Devs.
https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues
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gamedevelopmentstudio47
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 10:04
Hi,

Thanks for the comments from both of you!

@Kitakazi I understand your arguments and they are fair!

As for reporting bugs, only if it is the classic version of the engine I bought, because at the time I was pre-ordered on your site, I couldn't buy the Max version of the Engine, because I couldn't pay in the methods provided and I didn't have a PC with the minimum requirements to run the engine!

Now that you could pay for one of the methods you had on your website I think (paypal) and a PC that in principle runs GameGuru Max, you decided to close sales to buy the engine for your website's pre-order users.

Now I can only wait for November 30th to buy the engine but without discount and at the maximum price

I know I could wait a while to buy the engine on steam until there was a discount/promotion but I think it will take a while and I needed the engine as soon as possible!

Attention, I'm not blaming anyone for that decision/situation, I'm just explaining what happened to me!

@synchromesh But I want the Max engine.

If I wasn't interested it wouldn't be here, because I understand little or nothing of code! That's one of the reasons I prefer this engine to CryEngine, Unity, or Unreal!

I've tried other engines like some I mentioned before, but I found them so complex, with a complicated code language, that I couldn't do practically anything!

So when I discovered GameGuru I loved it, at the time I even bought the classic version and some dlc's!

Even so they can make fun of me but even sometimes the classic found it difficult, even following the tutorials, because all engines are in English, and they don't have other languages!

But this one was actually more intuitive and simpler to understand than the others!

As for Github, I also agree that it is the best place to post my suggestions, as on the live stream Lee Bamber is always very limited with time!

Just a question how does Github work?

Do I need to login from google account or create an account to make comments???

Thanks!
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synchromesh
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 10:48
Quote: "Do I need to login from google account or create an account to make comments??? "

Long time since i did it but i think you can either just create a login or Login via your Google details.
If the option was there to login with my google details i would have just done that but i honestly cannot remember.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 11:07
@gamedevelopmentstud - all you have to do is create an account with Github and verify it. Then you can either start adding issues on Github or you can use GG MAx to raise an issue, although it doesn't allow you (at least not the last time I used it) to upload pics as 9/10 times you will be asked if you have a screenshot to upload. Also, make sure your VPN security is on, someone told me they could see my address and personal details (terrific!).
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synchromesh
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 13:43
Quote: "or you can use GG MAx to raise an issue, although it doesn't allow you (at least not the last time I used it)"

Ye that was removed .. Clicking on report a bug now takes you directly here
https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues/new
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 15:08 Edited at: 4th Nov 2021 15:27
Is it just me or are the paragraphs repeated multiple times in the first post. Virtually impossible to read so I will ignore it I think.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 15:35
yes, as I previously posted after the OP posted.
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Kitakazi
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Posted: 4th Nov 2021 22:17
Quote: "No us older member are just more realistic. "


Yes that is probably more true than my apathetic comment. There is so much that goes into making a modern day engine it is mind boggling. But I guess I was commenting about when OP was talking about "the potential." Anyone who has ever used GG talks about how great the potential is, because there is something, some sort of fire deep down in the core is dim but burning and it is awesome. But over time, and maybe it's just peeps becoming more realistic, but that fire or w/e the potential is, that vision kinda fades away.
I do use Unity a lot, but I like GG and I feel like for w/e reason when I use GG I am more creative and make better things and have better ideas.

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Posted: 9th Nov 2021 22:17
Maybe that "some sort of fire deep down in the core is dim but burning and it is awesome" is/ was First Person Shooter Creator; the ancestor to GG. Testimony in the forums here observed over time say that in certain aspects FPSC realistically had things going for it and more momentum behind it than found in GG today. I've heard a lot of "FPSC had this 10 years ago- would sure be nice to see it bounce back into GG." This article is a quick FPSC snipet *circa >>> 2005 <<<

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/r_fpscreator_pc
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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 9th Nov 2021 23:05
FPSC had a simple and therefore limited set of tools that (with a bit of effort) allowed for endless creativity from the users. Despite being a first person shooter creator, developers used it as a springboard to create all sorts of fun and interesting games. For evidence, see my FPS Creator Classic series on YouTube.

Game Guru Classic gives you more tools but few of them were ever finished/polished, meaning that (even with a lot of effort) most developers struggled to create anything playable, much less creative. Compared to the old FPSC forums, the work in progress board here is graveyard littered with abandoned projects. Ultimately the scope of Game Guru was too large to match the resources of the team that made it, so the tools suffered.

Game Guru Max seems to have learned some lessons from Classic but not all. They've given us PBR rendering and a near-limitless editable terrain...yet there's no streaming of data in and out of memory so you best hope you can squeeze every asset you need to fill your 8km x 8km map into 4GB of VRAM. They've added lip-syncing characters...but no facial expressions, so they all look like emotionless husks. They've added a dynamic lua system so we can tweak scripts in the editor....but AFAIK there's still no persistent lua environment between levels so globals won't be passed over from one level to the next (best of luck coding an RPG-style inventory). At least the team is bigger this time, so it's more likely they'll produce a better product.

I for one am hoping Max is closer to FPSC in its feel. As for Classic, I think the only way to redeem that now is to open source it like they did with FPSC, let the community retroactively add in all the stuff that could have made Classic great.

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Wolf
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Posted: 9th Nov 2021 23:48 Edited at: 9th Nov 2021 23:52
Hello, a few thoughts:

It has already been pointed out that your formatting and odd repetition in your initial post is resembling a war crime but I went ahead and read the thing anyway.

Quote: "(creating games without the need for code) "


Yes and no. You can drop down some enemies, zones, stock scripts and guns and thats technically a game but any gameplay beyond that will need to be scripted in LUA. Technically you can make games without custom scripts but its just not going to end up being an all too interesting game.

Quote: "In short, what Max has to offer in AI so far: nothing!!!"


Yes, AI is tough to create, especially all purpose AI that should work for a larger amount of game genres. I wouldn't expect that much from the stock AI for max either... still... the engine comes with some free stock enemy AI which most engines don't have and you can always refine and write your own within the given frame work. Max should have navmesh making enemy pathfinding less janky but even in classic you can design interesting combat scenarios if you play around with the AI a little. I do however agree that, in general, the AI is bad.

Quote: "And is this all worth 40 or 50 bucks? "


Thats about the price of an asset pack for another engine so I'd say... yeah? Its a free market anyway, they can sell it for whatever they want and wether or not its worth it is a subjective oppinion.

Quote: "1. Intelligence/AI and Player Movements: Very Important

2. Animations: Skeletal animation, Parametric Skeletal Animation - Very Important"


Sure thing. I'm on board with that.

Quote: "3. Flow graphs: Cutscene creator (Very Important), Weapons creator (Very Important), Vehicle creator (Important), Particle Editor (Very Important)"


As for a cutscene creator, GGclassic has cine guru so I can see that being possible but I highly doubt TGC would consider that.

Particle system is a standard feature and a must have.

Weapons creator? How would that even work? It would be a non feature as it would all be rigged to the same set of arms and these types of assets would immediately be recognized as stock no matter how many customisation options you add. People on here usually have custom weapons they rigged/modeled themselves or store bought third party assets. This would be a waste of time and doing it yourself (I have several easy tutorials on here to explain how to import and set up custom weapons in less than 30 minutes.)
Same thing with "vehicle creator".

Quote: "Terrain/Vegetation: Seasons Field Simulator (Spring, Summer, Winter, Autumn)/ (Thunderstorm, Rain, Snow, Sandstorms)/ Interactive and destructible environments - nuclear explosion, earthquakes, hurricanes (Important), Dynamic environment mapping/Dynamic vegetation (Very Important), Eye Adaptation & High Dynamic Range (HDR) (Very Important), Ground Tessellation (Very Important), Being able to create caves on the ground (terrain) and a way to import heigthmaps (Very Important),"


Game Guru Max is NOT going to be a AAA tool, its simply not having that level of budget and manpower behind it. You can't expect unreal engine level features in it. What you describe here sounds like a big engine plugin that costs 70 bucks and took a year to complete...not an additional feature for a much larger software project developed by a handful of guys.

Quote: "a way to import heigthmaps (Very Important)"


this is sensible enough and should be a feature, yes.

Quote: "8. Real time planar reflections, Lighting HDR rendering, Translucent colored shadows, Volumetric light scattering/Volumetric ligthting, Global Illumination (Very Important)"


Some of this...maybe, but I just don't see GG max ending up sporting state of the art rendering. I just don't see that happen, I am sorry.

As Kitakazi so aptly pointed out:

If you think the older, or more vocal. community members influence the direction of GameGuru more than the new users... I got some bad news for you... they don't.


I just hope for the same thing I hoped for, when they developed GG classic... a robust, well optimized engine with enough base features to be versatile. I really don't want them spend too much time and energy on stock assets and peripheral features as... well, I enjoy the "make" part of making a video game and if they focus their skills on a solid foundation, the community will end up making all the assets and scripts you'd need... if we end up with a broken, unstable engine that has a killer water fall generator and some pretty foliage assets we are screwed in the long run.
synchromesh
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Posted: 10th Nov 2021 00:14 Edited at: 10th Nov 2021 00:50
Quote: " I think the only way to redeem that now is to open source it like they did with FPSC"

You don't retire an older product if it still sells and helps pay the bills
fpsc was never on a platform like steam.
Besides you know how religious users suddenly become over broken promises.
Lee said it would continue to be supported until it dies its own death i guess.
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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lordjulian
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2021 07:31
I'm still working on my visual novel which I hope to finish by Spring. But nevertheless, I will take a day off from it to play with Max when it releases to EA Steam. The stuff about poor AI is a little worrying, though. I have been following the weekly live broadcasts and the AI looked OK in those videos, although I don't recall seeing characters using stairs. Can they really not use stairs? If so it seems odd; even back in the days of FPSC I think they could use stairs.

I was hoping the player would be able to swim by now. Can he at least get submerged without dying?

Even from just reading a few threads he, I am starting to get a little concerned. I know it's EA, but we already waited years with GG for better AI, swimming, etc.
Julian - increasingly disillusioned and jaded
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synchromesh
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2021 10:27
Quote: "I don't recall seeing characters using stairs. Can they really not use stairs? If so it seems odd; even back in the days of FPSC I think they could use stairs."

Yes they can use stairs very well indoors or outdoors but no swimming for the player yet.
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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thatandplaygames
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2021 14:25 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2021 14:32
GG and GG max both have limits but finding creative ways to create a game. For example, I'm using Game Maker studio with GG/GGMax.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_vMIWuiQU0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4__zHMMArjc





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