Product Chat / GameGuru MAX Live - Broadcast #36 Answers

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 16:40
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Hi All,

Find today's broadcast recording below:


Also here are the answers to the questions I did not have time to answer in the live chat:

Q> ​Will there be weather effects like leaves blowing, wind effects, maybe like a sand wind, and stuff like that for a cool scene on a bad weather time?
A> There will be some weather effects, and I can confirm wind, but cannot confirm other forms such as sandstorms, leaves, etc.

Q> ​The player can open doors and windows?
A> Yes the doors and windows can be opened, as well as other objects that can be operated by the player as required by modern game logic.

Q> You said this was the final installer in a stream.. does it stop working when users get steam keys?
A> There will be two ways to get GameGuru MAX. Direct from TheGameCreators which uses our installer, and Steam Key which will use the Steam installation system and their update system.

Q> What's the easiest programming language to get started with?
A> It has to be BASIC, but there are not many around these days. You can try AppGameKit, that's pretty neat

Q> Any chance to bring back some sort of alt_texture?
A> This has been added to our 'nice to have' list and I agree there will be a need for this. It may reside within the LUA scripting world only, but I would like to think this is a feature that will be shipped with V1.

Thanks for all your questions, see you again next week!
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 17:10
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Quote: "There will be two ways to get GameGuru MAX. Direct from TheGameCreators which uses our installer, and Steam Key which will use the Steam installation system and their update system."

Kind of hard to fit all the correct wording in the Stream ..
What I meant was ... Those who have Pre Ordered the Steam Key currently have access to the version we all have via the tiny installer.
In other words on official release do they get the Steam key and still get access to the downloadable we have now .
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3com
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 18:08
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@ Lee
Ty mate for the reply.

I have the same synchro's question about steam and TGC, I have bought GGMax thru steam because of the update system, but now that you provide a nice auto-updater, the doubt raised. Can I enjoy the auto-updater or just steam one? if does not, so, can I move to TGC?
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 19:07
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Yeah so firstly can we just take a moment to say brilliant stream Lee and team.

We are very quick to say not much progress or complain about things but Lee absolutely smashed it this week. Lets just pick out some of the highlights from this afternoons stream:

- Really nice default view in the editor looks much more like a modern game engine
- Better control of the editor camera and shortcut key descriptions
- Much improved grouping system and positioning of entities, stacking and locking
- High quality new soldier characters a big improvement on the old character creator
- New AI system planned based on modern implementations and stackable animations
- General UI cleanup and improvements

Brilliant stuff
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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 19:25
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A better broadcast this week, nice to see the progress, well done

A couple of minor nit-picks from me. I noticed when the developer window is open, the objects behind are still highlight-able. That might be confusing to some users, or it might indicate you can inadvertently edit your entities whilst that window is open (which you shouldn't be able to). Maybe you could disable the editing and highlighting of objects when that window is open.

Also, don't know about anyone else, but the grey icons are a little utilitarian for my taste. Maybe you could introduce a splash of that turquoise-y green you guys have used in the logo, just to make them stand out more. Could even be a colour change when you hover over them?

Like I said, tiny UX points, but I know how passionately you care about UX/UI these days.

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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 19:28
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Quote: "Q> Any chance to bring back some sort of alt_texture?
A> This has been added to our 'nice to have' list and I agree there will be a need for this. It may reside within the LUA scripting world only, but I would like to think this is a feature that will be shipped with V1."


Very very very glad to hear this is being considered, I found an old FPSC forum thread talking about a way to have limbs the player could shoot off (for example, the head) by using an alt-texture to make the desired body part transparent (no texture), which would make it invisible in-game. (Switch to an alt-texture when the limb is shot.)

Hopefully we can have more than one alt-texture per entity/character, because I can already think of a lot of creative uses for this.
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 19:38
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"alt-texture per entity/character, because I can already think of a lot of creative uses for this."
Yeah, cool. And even more likely if ray-casting differentiated them!
But looking good though I hope they consider some user suggestions going down the line.
Will probably order it when terrain and grass get put back in.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 20:01
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Quote: "Will probably order it when terrain and grass get put back in."

Terrain and grass is in but you have to paint it on,
Even so. Lots of plans for terrain so it could change.
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 20:46
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I need to know if this is going to be addressed or changed. please confirm
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/222615#msg2640005
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 12:29
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@synchromesh : I think it is fair that pre-order users get both, so a Steam Key and a TGC installer version. Interesting to see what the split might be between Steam launching and non-Steam launching

GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 13:10
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broadcast was good , thanks Lee. Not sure about the blank terrain to start with, not sure what to make of it yet, hmmm. Can't wait to see how the terrain pans out. Great models by the way.
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 16:04
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Quote: "@synchromesh : I think it is fair that pre-order users get both, so a Steam Key and a TGC installer version. Interesting to see what the split might be between Steam launching and non-Steam launching "

That's awesome.
Agreed it will be very interesting although i think Max will sell like hot cakes on Steam
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 16:06
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Quote: "Not sure about the blank terrain to start with, not sure what to make of it yet"

Granted there is an initial shock .. But i think it looks awesome and much more professional now.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 16:20
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Yes agreed, looks professional, took me aback for a bit. Well done Lee and team
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 18:17
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@synchromesh
"Terrain and grass is in but you have to paint it on,"

Okay. I'd like to see how that works. Could someone show us a video of that when they get time?
As far as ordering, I'd rather get something that's up to at least 88% usable and the bug report thread below this one has reports of a wonky texture system. I've gotten used to the terrain being in place upon opening the engine- even if placing a single barrel down to test out a simple script. It just seems to help my brain be creative with some terrain already in place.. like the video I watched Once Upon A Time... In The Beginning... and convinced me to look closer at GG.
I'm wondering it you painted something like a 'figure 8' on the map, what would it produce?
So my next question is how is water going to work-- can we paint that in wherever we want it?! Let's hope * 10!
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 18:25
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Quote: "I'm wondering it you painted something like a 'figure 8' on the map, what would it produce?"

It would paint an 8 ?
If your waiting for terrain specifically then best to wait ..
Like i said lots of terrain changes incoming. Lee has big plans.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 19:49
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It would paint an 8 ?
Lee; "It's not green anymore! It's a nice clean grid... grass will come back with the future terrain generator."

Okay, I went back and watched it, to remember what's that all about. This is to the standard of other engines whether that's the most intuitive GG way or not? (See above) There has to be a default terrain that contains a texture for the whole map- or it will be the grid- or it will be transparent like in paint programs when you erase everything and you will be walking in space!
Not really important just now, though I was curious if you started MAX, hit test and what was the effect? But can wait until it's all sorted...
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 20:35
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Basically right now if you launch you see the sky and the Chequered grid as ground.
You can select textures and paint it, add vegetation and sculpt terrain as before but no actual default ground texture.
but its still very usable.
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OldFlak
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Posted: 25th Mar 2021 21:20 Edited at: 25th Mar 2021 21:23
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@Lee - great job
Blank grid for terrain is great - looking real pro there...
Hopefully we will have ability to drag\drop a texture and flood-fill the base layer of map....

Quote: "Not really important just now, though I was curious if you started MAX, hit test and what was the effect? But can wait until it's all sorted..."

It looks like blank a grey\white checkered landscape....

Make MAX Great!

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smallg
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Posted: 26th Mar 2021 12:24
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the blank terrain is fine but please tell me you're going to add a flood fill? (note, it should probably only flood fill the current section/chunk considering max is supposed to be getting a lot of terrain), i don't think anyone wants to hand paint the terrain for their entire game.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 26th Mar 2021 13:21
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Quote: "the blank terrain is fine but please tell me you're going to add a flood fill? (note, it should probably only flood fill the current section/chunk considering max is supposed to be getting a lot of terrain), i don't think anyone wants to hand paint the terrain for their entire game."

As Lee stated that will return with the future terrain generator.
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Posted: 26th Mar 2021 20:25
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Is there a update today? Gamegurn max is saying that I am up to date but it is the March 17th build. I thought there was pose to be a build today. am I wrong?
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Posted: 26th Mar 2021 22:16
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Let's hope the WATER feature gets some love and attention, and maybe even an
upgrade to more customization tools- for example selectable WATER basins and
heights / paths. This would probably be much easier than anticipated.
A WATER hemisphere object + WATER zone would handle a majority of the effect.
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Posted: 26th Mar 2021 22:56
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By my clock we are running out of Friday in England...

Quote: "Is there a update today? Gamegurn max is saying that I am up to date but it is the March 17th build. I thought there was pose to be a build today. am I wrong?"




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Posted: 27th Mar 2021 07:40
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I suspect last minute problems have delayed it, as it's bright and early Saturday morning now and still no new update.
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Posted: 27th Mar 2021 18:23 Edited at: 27th Mar 2021 22:15
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Looking forward to next week build
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Posted: 27th Mar 2021 18:38
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new version is there now, downloading.... i.e. 2021.03.26
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Posted: 27th Mar 2021 19:26
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Quote: "Also Friday was Good Friday"


That's next Friday, dude. Perhaps Max will rise again next Sunday

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Posted: 28th Mar 2021 00:17 Edited at: 28th Mar 2021 00:18
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Just a question not a diss, I have a radeon R5 340 2gb card which is crappy yes i know but that's all i can fit into my usff i5 box which i currently use for GG, first thing if i turn off mx ...whatever i can run gg Max fine. Ok i do get that the minimum spec is a gtx 1080 or whatever.... now to the question is Max intended for those with a high end graphics card? If so aren't you going to limit sales by this, lets not forget firstly not everyone has a high end card and coupled with not everyone is going to want to use max isn't that going to restrict the amount of people who actually buy max? I do think a real look at performance needs to be addressed if not all the work you guys are doing is just going to be a waste of time because a lot of people are just going to say .e.g too high specs for an engine that isn't massively current. don't get me wrong i love GG and want to extend to max i just think that the pretty is going outweigh the practicality ... just my 10p's worth
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Posted: 28th Mar 2021 04:28
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"minimum spec is a gtx 1080 or whatever...."
Probably.
And if anyone says otherwise, they aren't making a very big level with scripted objects, etc. Once again, my latest new GG classic project is hitting mid 30 fps and might be @ dynamic objects.

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Posted: 28th Mar 2021 09:47
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But it isn't a 1080, the minimum spec card for Game Guru Max is an Nvidia Geforce 960, a 6-year-old 2GB card, hardly what anyone would call high-end these days. According to the latest Steam hardware survey, this makes Max accessible to over 86% of Steam users.

Now will you be able to craft a game to the size and detail as Far Cry 5 on 2GB card? No. But you will still be able to make small levels. You're right though, Max needs to be significantly more optimised than Classic, but that's something the developers will tackle as best they can during development, only fully turning their attention to it once the core product is done.

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Posted: 28th Mar 2021 10:12
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At this point in time i am just glad that i can have the opportunity to test Max with my system specs
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synchromesh
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Posted: 28th Mar 2021 12:46
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Quote: "now to the question is Max intended for those with a high end graphics card? If so aren't you going to limit sales by this"

As stated a GTX960 is not a high end card these days.
You could say isnt Windows 10 and 64 bit only going to do the same thing.
Max is designed for the higher spec in mind and are some of the requirements of the Wicked engine anyway.
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Posted: 28th Mar 2021 16:07 Edited at: 31st Mar 2021 08:05
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Yes game guru classic was totally held back by the laptop brigade and the low end pc gamers on probably windows xp. I suffered and many more too we lost a hell of a lot for lower end pcs to work, moans and gripes about my none graphics card laptop cant run it took priority for over a year and at a loss to many things shadow's filters etc. It put the whole project back and also i think ruined classic. Hence everyone jumping to max laptop moanees where are they now? Lower end, and taptop xp owners you have classic until you can afford a new card. The classic may not look as good but then if you all want the lower specs to run max it will end up like classic as drastic measures will remove filters shadow vr wicked engine etc. so basically classic is lower end pc max. Problem solved

Also its the lowest requirement for VR to work and wicked engine
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Posted: 28th Mar 2021 18:15
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"960 isn't a high end card."
No, apparently it's not, it even shrunk from the 760 according to something I read.
So maybe it should have been the 760 TI as it barely improves speed. But the cost
of them makes them look like they are priced as a high end card. Again everything
GPU is painfully warped today-- fork out ~$300+ for this oooold thingy! Normally
maybe we'd be able to put in 2060's for that price?

Yes, we need a good card- I'm not against good GPU's! And this gripe has nothing to do
with MAX or TGC's -- rather some sort of debauched fiscal inventions of greedy humanity.
Yeah, the catch is that graphics cards are nauseatingly overinflated in cost at the moment.
Any chance that the prices will go down in a reasonable manner? eeeh only seems like
they are going up every minute.

https://www.pcgamer.com/rtx-2060-vs-gtx-1070/
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Posted: 29th Mar 2021 09:58
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While mining is profitable and GPU manufacturers trickle stock out the door, plus scalpers buying just to resell, can't see much changing for GPU pricing for some time. A crash in mining will probably open up a massive second hand market (if you can trust cards that have been stressed 24/7).

Maybe Intel will help get some competition in the market and force Nvidia and AMD to up their game.

Can't blame GG for market shifts though and min spec has been set since it was first conceived.
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Posted: 30th Mar 2021 08:02 Edited at: 30th Mar 2021 08:05
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Quote: "Yeah, the catch is that graphics cards are nauseatingly overinflated in cost at the moment."


The reason prices have jumped up is because of a shortage of cards due to the new NFT system causing more people to buy more cards to data mine crypto currency to trade in the new market, i don't see that issue going away any time soon as long as people can profit from data mining. At the moment a few countries (including the UK) have started looking into ways to make data mining less desirable, to start with the UK slipped in a law last year that prohibits the sale of real world products for crypto currency, and India has also banned trading in crypto currencies. Hopefully they will go further with this and other countries will join in and eventually data mining will just not be profitable any more.

As to minimum spec for GGMax, it's not just an arbitrary card number, it's a requirement based on the tech being used, in this case the Wicked Engine, not much can be done to reduce the spec, and as mentioned before, not much reason to try, over 86% of the users of the biggest gaming platform in the world are using better cards than the minimum spec and if we want TGC to aim lower then we should expect drastically lower capabilities from the engine, there has to be a line somewhere and this spec is it.
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 30th Mar 2021 23:10
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Nvidia is on series 3 GTX cards now. A GTX 960 is about as low as it gets.
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