Hi All,

Here is the much-repaired Broadcast #33:



And for all the questions I could not answer live, here are your answers:

Q> The ​bitrate is so low!
A> The decision was taken to increase the broadcast to 1080P for higher quality videos on YouTube. Do let us know if more of you experienced bitrate issues with this Broadcast.

Q> Any updates on considering adding VR back in?
A> Please post below anyone who wishes to see the half-baked incomplete VR functionality returned to the Developer Tools section of MAX.

Q> Probably better to have 3 modes, horizontal, vertical or combined.
A> What would combined do?

Q> If you edit 1 group does it edit all existing groups or only the new ones?
A> We are not doing the instanced parent clone, each group copy will be a unique copy so each one can be edited without affecting the others.

Q> Se eu fizer meu game no brazil eu posso vender ele ?
A> Best to ask your questions in English for the live chat. As this is the forums, I can answer to say that if you made a game with MAX you CAN sell it in Brazil, no strings

Q> ​Can you save groups like prefabs?
A> The level would save the group so you can keep editing your level, but you cannot export the group outside of the level as it is bound to the objects you used within that level.

Q> Will the asset packs from Game Guru work on this new version?
A> Yes you can manually copy over the entity files from Classic, and most of them will work in MAX.

Q> Online como vai funcionar na game guru max ?
A> No plans to include online technology into GameGuru MAX.

Q> Ii have a large room (temple size) however the lighting is none effective on the model can you check if it will be corrective or if a work around will be needed?
A> Simply set the light range to a large value and it will light the surfaces of your large temple model.

Q> Can we rotate groups and scale groups yet?
A> Groups can be rotated and scaled in the same way as multiple-selected objects can be rotated and scaled.

Q> Will GG max work with png textures?
A> Yes, GameGuru MAX supports PNG as well as JPG and DDS.

Q> ​Will there be a Mac version soon?
A> There are no plans to create a Mac version of GameGuru MAX.

Q> ​You need to not just have a mouse wheel for a shortcut. Not everyone has one.
A> You can still zoom in and out of the level using the forward arrow and W keys too.

Thankyou everyone for your questions, and I will speak to you all next Wednesday 4 PM GMT.

Yes please !!
Even though it was basic before it was super cool to try it out and check out your own levels in VR.

+1 from me. thanks

I would suppose the "combined" would allow the end-user to translate the selected entity both vertically and horizontally instead of one or the other.





The grouping system you currently have is definitely a step in the right direction. However, it could be even better. One great thing about a prefab system is you can do BOTH - edit individual groups and edit all groups at once. Being able to make an edit to the original prefab and have it affect ALL clones of it is pretty powerful. It allows the end-user to quickly mock up a level, for example, and then to replace the mock-up parts with final pieces by simply updating the original prefab. It allows you to place prefabs all over (if needed) and if you decide that all need to change (whether it's a texture, a model, or even a script) you can make the change once and you're done. It's great for "grayboxing", too (setting up basic levels with plain geometry that is to be replaced with final geometry later).

If the prefab system is created well, then the system will know that individual changes (changes made to clones of the prefab) are not to be changed by changes made to the original prefab.

Lastly, part of the beauty of a prefab system is being able to save the "group" out so that it can be used in other levels, not just the level where the prefab or group was created.

Again, the grouping system you've created is a gigantic step in the right direction. But I would still like to see a more prefab-like system created in MAX at some point.

My personal opinion, GameGuru has been receiving a lot of criticism due to half baked implementations, this might happen with Max too if people use it and find that it is not working as it should.
I know this is early alpha but i think thatif it is added, add a clear warning also that this feature is still being developped.

I am really mixed on the removal of the move/rotate widgets, I'm so incredibly used to them and I feel like they offer way quicker and more precise movements when adding details. I understand the simplicity of the new system for an average user, but I would greatly prefer a toggle (perhaps under developer settings?) to re-enable the widgets.

Edit: Also, I just realized, it seems there's zero way to "tilt" an entity with the new rotation system, that's gonna cause a whole slew of issues!

I didn't watch the entire video, so ... did Lee state the move/rotate/scale widget was removed? Or was the vertical and horizontal movement stuff only an option? Because I saw the move, rotate, and scale buttons at the top of the UI (top-right). Would they activate the widget if pressed? I guess we'll know for certain on Friday.

I agree with you, though, fearlesswee. I don't want to see the widget removed. To me, it's so much easier to grab an axis handle to restrict movement then to have to use a shortcut key to swap between vertical and horizontal. And a translation widget offers even more options.

Rotate, Tilt, Scale etc is still there via sliders which is actually better.
The Widget is still selectable in the options if you prefer to use the old way

@ Argent_Arts; + 100
@ fearlesswee; + 100

Is there already or future precise control of entity angles via number entry dialogue, also sliders (while numbers are visible). Wait and see. "the grouping system you've created is a gigantic step in the right direction." ? A good political ambassador can work wonders. Mouse bracket in old GG is MAX grouping re-loaded?

I would disagree. There's a place for sliders (obviously), but I love working with a gizmo/widget to translate, scale, and rotate. It's also more economical (in terms of saving time and movement) to not have to move the mouse over to a slider when you can just do what you need to do right there on the entity right where your mouse is. Sure, it's not a lot of time saved, but it does add up over the course of developing an entire game.



We can CTRL+CLICK on any slider to enter a number directly.

Speaking of which - I don't find that very intuitive. Or, I should say, it's not easily discoverable by a person new to using Max. With all the concentration on the UI, wouldn't it be better to add a numeric entry box or area to the end of each slider (or directly above each slider) where the end-user could just click and enter a precise number?

It is in the Manual ..
I hope all users read the manual after so many requests and finally getting a detailed one.

Yes. But that's not the point. When talking about something being easily discoverable, it deals with UI design. There's a reason most software uses CTRL+C and CTRL+V to copy and paste. Regardless of whether it's in the manual or not, these are used because they became the commonly used method for copying and pasting information. Many programs have sliders and also have a method for entering numbers manually for precision (or for preference). What is the common way this is done? Is it via CTRL+CLICK on the actual slider? Or is it via a numeric entry box that accompanies a slider? Regardless of whether it's in the manual or not, it's normally done via a numeric entry box because it makes sense, because this is commonly how it's done, because it's easy to discover this is how it's done, even if someone has not read the manual. It's easily discoverable.

The current method, regardless of being in the manual, is not the best solution to the problem. It is not the best UI design solution.

You buy a program, have a play and read the manual just like any other program
Preferably read as you try it out or follow the tutorials .. There are also Video tutorials included on every function.
Why would Max be any different from other software you buy.

I don't think you actually read what I wrote above your post ...

I think we could be here till 2055 discussing buttons. Iook forward to actually making an engine. 5 months on ui is long time surely
Edited by self had one too many rum and cokes

"I think we could be here till 2055 discussing buttons."
Right. So let's make better use of our time and discuss the elephant in the room; why does the discussion of

saving groups of entities-
and/ or...
loading entities via script-

keep hitting a brick wall? I'm just a curious person, I have to analyze and discuss everything, even who wants what for dinner?! lol but this one makes me curious. Coding either should fall in the simplistic realm for these guys. Once I was told it had something to do with possibly breaking the AI system-- say what?! Hu? I can think of several experiments done in the map that could confound that position. (which simply has to do with moving things live as your game plays). Also, look at nature; Squirrels have saving things for latter down pat, and Spiders produce material at will- but we cannot? To be honest, it would level up the engine 10-28 levels.

As a longtime Rift owner (since DK1) I'd like to see it return for the simple fun of exploring a creation.

VR was heavily promoted in the TGC newsletters through 2020 including with the VR Quest spin-off, and even the Jan. 2021 newsletter noted:

Yes please add vr into the dev tools.

No he does, he completely understands it. The way they are doing it is perfectly fine.Additionally there is no point needing to edit on vertical or horizontal axis also.Because unreal or unity does it in their own way, doesn't mean gameguru or max has to copy that. Classic and max is completely different to those tools, and will never compete or copy them, will never be the objective, TGC has always created tools suited to their engine and target audience and will continue to do so.The sooner one accepts that, the sooner we can actually move on.

Movement and editing of entities isn't an "industry standard" you can pretty much do as you see fit in this space. Considering max doesn't have primitive creation, with grid and normal snapping in place in particular to modular assets their is no need for nanometre precision.It's a waste and will slow down the editing process.

You actually not once considered the target audience, TGC has ALWAYS implemented things in such a way that a 6 year old should be able to use the tools with ease, yes this has negatively impacted more advance users, but there has always been ways to work around problems you may encounter with regards to functionality and tools. With max TGC has actually been trying to accommodate both.

That said you have been adamant that this is the way the rest do it, so we should copy that not only here but in other threads as well. So am actually curious what is your end goal or target is. ?


Let me put it to you this way.
Large majority of users/new users to classic or max have never used other engines, and probably never will. From their perspective what TGC does, UI wise and tool wise is normal for them. Completely ignoring that other tools, engines and what else exists. From the perspective of those users, how do you improve what we have now, without a reference or copying others outside of the software.It's flawed ideology at best but gets the point across.

Nice to see locking movement to horizontal and vertical directions, but it would be cool if these had a keyboard shortcut. I mourn the loss of the widget too, it's way more intuitive and time-saving than having to select modes on the other side of the screen, though having precise numeric control is useful, just not in 90% of cases.

What Argent is asking for is a very sophisticated interpretation of the concept of prefabs. I personally don't expect to be able to edit an existing prefab and have those changes propagate throughout all the levels where that prefab is used, that sounds massively complicated and time-consuming to develop. I would, however, settle for being about to group a bunch of entities together and save them as a prefab for use in other levels. It really has to be available in other levels, otherwise it almost negates the point of being able to save groups in the first place. Why would I need that when I can just copy+paste elsewhere in the level? Oh, you mean I can save a group in level 1 and have immediate access to it in level 2? Sign me up!

AE

Be nice to just have a toggle in the Advanced or Developer dialog box to check or un-check the widget. I don't find classics widget to bad to use at all.

As i tried to explain to Agent_Arts in my very first response to him.
The Widget is still selectable in the options if you prefer to use the old way

Rick found this on YouTube
Worth posting here i think as a glimpse of whats possible even now ..
Apparently the shimmering will be fixed in the next build.

Adding edit boxes for changing rotation would surely be a more elegant and widely used option. Don't make things different for the sake of it is my opinion. For navigation basics, 3D packages like 3DS and the like have long ago got it down pat. Nothing wrong with using the most popular and common method. Good for when a beginner moves to make their own 3D media as well that the system would be likely similar in whatever package they choose to use.

I quite like the new placement tools, but not sure why the widget has to be removed. Room for both I would think. But if you can re-enable it, I suppose we have?

Oh there's a manual now? Good to know, so used to not having one I never even check these days!

Nice video above btw.

Perhaps clicking and holding the left mouse button on an object will allow you to move it horizontally, right-clicking and holding to move vertically, both buttons to rotate?

As it stands the ability to import objects is removed. I thought it worked well as it was.
IWhat's the plan on updating that function?

Where did that info come from ?
Still working for me.

importer still works with current version (last Friday).

I can't find how to get to importer mode. Seems like before it was obvious how to click on the file selector.
Edit: Never mind. For some reason I didn't try clicking the "temp" button....thanks

Its in the Temp selection. Top of the screen.
Some were put there till they find a home.

AH....Thank you. Why I didn't click that I don't know.

Hi All, I have released this Friday's pre-order users build. For those missing the good old widget, go to your Settings dialog and select the Developer tab, and you can switch it back on. I feel many users here are Advanced users and will choose to do this. Each of my broadcasts and builds will revert to the Standard User mode (new uers), and in this way we make it possible for people who have never made a game in their lives have a chance of making one with GameGuru MAX. I have no intention of diminishing the functionality and flexibility of your games engine, and if you ever see me do so, demand I restore it via the Developer and Advanced tabs! Those tabs are there for you guys and gals

Just tried the new build and it has has completely changed the lighting of levels without doubt. Unfortunately for the worse at the second! What was a dark and moody scene last night is now overly bright and horrible Going into the light colour and changing it now seems to do nothing or very little.

Wish I had a pic of how it looked before, but suffice to say it was a lot darker and the lights in the background were nothing like as ott.

Will have to play with it on a fresh map maybe, but either the lighting is now taking too much control or something is not right.

One of the things still in progress.
The Wicked Upgrade broke a lot and Lee is still playing Catch up with the visuals.
If you select the simulated Sky and bring the Ambience slider right down it will start to look more like you remember.

Did that Not even CLOSE...


OLD

Indoor levels .. Not so much no.

Had the same with an indoor level I was playing with. I had lights set to a light grey colour and it's now set them all back to white.

[ edit ] strange thing is I had them set to about 65, but now the level is really bright but checking the properties they are all on 15.

Just tried the simulated sky, but no better really.

Closer but nowhere near as good as before.

in game still goes bright.

Back to editor and different look again

For certain looks like wires need plugging in to some different places at the second.

Dont forget you can always roll back via the launcher and hold out until next week.

Game guru max with classic graphics yay
Jus kidding im. Sure it will all return
Unless jts like the old gameguru it had amazing graphics at one point then they removed something and the efx were lost forever due to a few frames per second. Not sure what it was butnquality and reloaded was lost cause from then hoping its not going the same way

No whether indoor or outdoor.....Considering I have lots of reference pictures of the previous build....there is a massive difference whether with or without the simulated sky, shadows simply aren't there. So no......

Probably best to hide this mess from 'non-advanced' users tbh.

Classic circa May 2019 had a perfectly functional rotation widget btw, can't we just have that one back?

Somethings Amiss
Sliders not there and the widget was better than that .

I noticed the widget issue awhile ago. Not sure when it crept in, or if it has always been like it in Max. Only happens when you rotate it about a lot normally.

@Syncromesh. Just pointing out my initial results so the dev team can see where they have issues The scene above was just a test to see what I could make with cubes, spheres, torus's and cylinders, while still using default textures, lol. The snake tower came out quite well, with the texture I grabbed out of the cellar demo for a ceiling (I think) looking quite good and fairly snake like

Oh, I also get this every time I load up. This version has the added benefit of making me go bozzeyed at the same time. For some reason some objects keep being converted every boot up.

Not seeing anywhere I can revert back though?

If I could get at the code I could probably fix the widget in a few minutes.

The sliders and value fields make little sense to me personally as when dealing with Euler angles you can't actually visualise the resulting world rotations from the values anyhow. What would make a lot more sense is if the values were local rotations, i.e. relative to the entity not to the world angles.

Got my sliders back
Do you not find it easier and less intrusive using the sliders with the widget turned off ?


Ye keep the all your finds, results coming
He has already had a big list from me

Sounds like your putting your assets in the Program Files Core entitybank ?
Being not writable it keeps trying to save the convert each time.
Or are you putting them in Documents \ GameGuruApps \ GameGuruMAX \ Files \ entitybank ?

"Do you not find it easier and less intrusive using the sliders with the widget turned off ?"

I only get a single Y slider, and I find it totally counter-intuative to move a slider 10 inches to the right of the entity I'm trying to rotate!

Ahh go to the settings, advanced
I think its the object tools to get the sliders.

Yes, as when I added them to the ones in my documents didn't seem to list them. Probably missed something, but always in a rush, so just went to root folder.