I hope you enjoyed the live broadcast this Wednesday, here is a recording for those who missed it:



And here are the answers to your many questions:

Q> Can we import Character Creator 3.3 character to Gameguru Max?
A> No plans to support Character Creator 3.3 exports in the release version of MAX but we do have an importer which will import various export formats such as GLTF and FBX which may help.

Q> Can we please have confirmation of particles in max? Do we have to purchase the AGK editor to make our own particles? or will there be an editor inclided or coming later specific for max?
A> We are planning to import the particles created with the Particle Editor for AppGameKit Studio, but we will be releasing a special GameGuru MAX DLC with a slightly modified Particle Editor for use by MAX users. No worries however, particles creates in either will work with MAX when we release this feature.

Q> Vrmode=3 .. What do the other modes do?
A> The other modes will do nothing in MAX, only VRMODE 3 will enable the headset and controller functionality.

Q> Are sprites in GG Max yet and WIndows Fonts .TTF etc ?
A> Yes you can create and display sprites using the LUA scripting system, though TTF font support for 2D and 3D rendering is not yet supported, but we are planning to move away from the old bitmap font system as soon as possible.

Q> ​Will we have non-3D text still? I'm assuming that was Prompt3d?
A> We currently only have 3D text being used by Prompts, but we are planning to reinstate regular 2D rendering to the screen for the non-VR experiences as I think there is enough demand to keep this method of showing text.

Q> Can you define the distance for picking up items? You were pretty far away when it asked you to pick up the weapon.
A> Yes you can control this within the script, and we may tweak the defaults before we release so the arm stretch is not so crazy.

Q> Can we have a flashlight object picked up before we just shine the flashlight?
A> That is a good idea. We are currently sourcing a good torch/flashlight model that works well in VR, and then we are likely to have this feature tied to an entity behavior to activate, though it might be well to have it as a toggle in player start marker too.

Q> It's looking good in your demos, but when I run the cellar demo most of the textures are missing, and I'm having other issues in the editor. Too soon to submit error reports? Do I send screen shots?
A> Yes too soon for official reports, but please do comment in the forums so your experiences can be generally known. We are aware of the missing texture issue and has been fixed in our internal build.

Q> Is it possible to change the flashlight look with a mask image?
A> It is not a fake flash light as in Classic, it is an actual spot light that is directed in the direction the player is holding the flashlight. There are no plans to mask that might with 'torch lens patterns' at this time.

Q> Will we be able to do things like erosion or fluvial - make the terrain looks very realistic?
A> There are no plans to add erosion or fluid dynamics to the sculpting of the terrain, you would need to do these manually with a small sculpt brush. We are however looking at the possibility of having an import heightmap feature that would allow you to use speciality terrain creation programs and then import the results into your game levels. Not for release though!

Q> That terrain cursor looks fine as stated above... Can we have waypoints like that the lines are horrible?
A> There are no plans to substitute the waypoint path lines with green cubes, but we are happy for this discussion to take place and see what the community think about improving the path lines visuals and functions.

Q> Is the release date still planned for the 30th?
A> We are still aiming for the 30th, and the reason we are working frantically to get everything in on time

Q> Is material index sounds of some sort still in the cards for Terrain? So we could have different sounds for grass and dirt for example?
A> Yes, we are working on just diffuse right now, but once we have terrain at top speed, we will be looking at the normal, surface and attribute layers so footfall sounds can be controlled via painting the material index, or more likely, associating it with a chosen texture paint.

Q> ​Are we going to be able to create bigger maps?
A> Yes indeed. The terrain you saw in the broadcast was one node. We have a node based system which allows us to attach nodes in any direction to any other node, making for very large game worlds if your design requires it, and virtual texturing and geometry streaming ensures you do not need the entire game world in memory at any one time.

Q> ​Oh I can't wait the things I have planned for this due to it's simplicity, but is there a Melee option?
A> Yes the weapon system supports melee combat, and we are hopeful to show off the metal pipe weapon for the release, in VR and non-VR experiences

Q. UNDERWATER WORKS TOO?
A> You can do underwater and the sounds change to suit, but we will need to work on that more after release as we have not focused on underwater games for now. The hope is that full screen distortion, underwater fog and underwater dynamics will form part of the underwater system in MAX.

Q> Does water still kill you or is swimming going to be a thing?
A> You can enter the water and the player logic switches to a slow movement swimming on the surface and underwater. Nothing special with just the basics for water navigation.

Q> Can we make turbulent water - like large ocean waves?
A> I have seen Wicked do some nice turbulent waters, so I think the answer is yes, but I have not managed to make the settings do that yet

Q> Will it work in third person, because this thing has crazy potential?
A> We have disabled TPP for the initial release as we want to focus on getting FPP right. I think the community agrees the third person system was left a little wanting, and so for MAX we don't want too many half-baked things floating around until we produce something rock solid and does what it says on the tin. If you are working on a third person game, best you stick with GameGuru Classic until we are ready to tackle a proper third person game making system.

Q> Physics on water - can items float?
A> There is code in there for certain entities with the correct mass settings to float, but it's not what I would call world class. The physics will be largely unchanged from Classic, but once we have all major features in a solid state, we are likely to return to physics to enhance it with some ideas we have had for a few years now.

Q> Are we gonna be able to paint water?
A> There are no plans to paint water in MAX, though it is a great idea for things like streams and accumulated water puddles. Perhaps raise the issue in the GameGuru forum and perhaps show some examples of games that may very well have been created with a 'paint river' feature.

Q> Will custom lua scripts working in current game guru work in MAX?
A> Yes indeed. Almost all scripts will work in MAX if they worked in Classic. and in fact we have hardly made changes to the Classic scripts, just copied them over selectively for the functionality we required.

Q> Will it be like GG classic where water is just on a level or can we have a water brush for a mountain top stream?
A> It will just be a water table plane for now, no separate water bodies.

Q> Will we have water displacement ? like wave breaks?
A> There is geometry manipulation done by the water shader, but you will not have direct control of adding a displacement map to the water effect for now.

Q> Will users be able to add customized Colour grading or make own presets?
A> You can make your own presets by adding a custom file to the new 'imagebank\lut' folder for MAX.

Q> ​Can be chang the water to make it like acid or lava?
A> Yes you can change the color of the water to a green or red, but there will be limits, such as not being able to change the texture of the water effect.

Q> Can the waves be given more height? (Made more "turbulent" like in a storm)
A> There are some cool settings, and I have seen higher waves, but there will be a limit to the size of the waves as they are designed as much for performance as for visual quality. A real wave, to say, crash over a building, would need to be modelled and animated in 3D, then imported.

Q> ​Is foam and edge wave/swirl effects (at intersect with terrain) planned for water?
A> There are no plans to add water foam or edge swirls to the water effect in MAX.

Q> Will it be more characters and accessories for the character?
A> We will be expanding the basic character creator body parts choices over time, starting you off with some basic choices for male, female and zombie. We will also be asking artists to create character creator body part DLCs that are fully compatible with MAX and sold as official DLC to expand your choices, plus release a full guide on how you can create your own model parts and how to prep them for compatibility.

Q> Is the expansion and streaming in of terrain still planned where you can expand the terrain as you need?
A> Yes indeed. Everything you saw in the broadcast is built on the virtual streaming system we developed for this, it was just kept small while we debugged it. Eventually the majority of your game world will stream in as you need it.

Q> ​Wicked has some great water features like flowing water. Any plans to add that sort of thing?
A> There are no plans for flowing water in MAX on release, but as a general rule, we will be looking to expose features available in the Wicked Engine before embarking on adding our own custom ones. We feel the Wicked Engine is a top renderer with some excellent effects,a dn looking forward to bringing them to the MAX universe.

Q> When will the beta come out with terrain and all the new stuff to play with?
A> We are working hard on that very mission, and it will be down to our internal QA as to when we can release something we can honestly call a beta build. We don't want a lot of backlash over the fact it does not meet the requirements of 'beta', best we push for a solid build that hopefully does not disappoint when it comes to creating games and testing for long periods of time.

Not seeing the live broadcast on youtube?

Thats a shame .. Best yet but will be posted here soon

found it

It seems that MAX cannot properly import a single FBX that contains more than one model. The models come in, but are not positioned correctly. For example, from another project I have a sci-fi crate model where the crate is one item and there are several planes for "decals" (another item). When the FBX is brought into another engine, it is perfect. In MAX, the "decal" planes are offset by a distance equal to the size of the main item.

Secondly, the crate uses one PBR material and the "decals" another. When importing, I am only given the option to add one normal, one albedo, etc. So, I take it that MAX will not allow several materials per single imported model? Let me know if I am incorrect about this.

Hello,
7 days until the release and still no beta? The beta is to let beta users report the bugs + DEV fixes them and then have most probably another beta before the launch, and crunch out the bugs again.
I do not know how big the team is (DEV and QA), but I do have a 20 year+ of QA and DEV management experience and the release on 30th of September seems not possible in the state the application is in right now. At this point, the QA team should have the finished product (all functionalities done) and be doing acceptance and regression testing (check if the same functions in the classic GG are still working; Models, Levels, LUA scripts, Classic levels..etc...). And by looking at the size of the application ( functionalities) , the plan for regression testing is probably very big (meaning long to execute the test cases by the QA team, IF there is a QA team at TGC).
I would be careful to release on September 30th and have lots of bugs / unfinished functions in the application. This will have backlash on the reviews and ratings of the product on Steam, not counting the Youtube videos also.

This is one of the reason I stopped using GG Classic when I both it in 2015 (very buggy at that time). I returned to GG Classic this year to get a better grip of the product, and bought tons of assets (from the store and Steam and planning to reuse them in GG MAX). Still GG Classic is not perfect as of today (ex: need to restart the editor occasionally, cos it crashes for whatever reason), but it`s OK.

So Lee, if your QA thinks this product is stable enough for the 30th that`s fine, but I would push the date if the feeling isn`t there. That's just a suggestion.

As user who pre-ordered MAX, I do want something as stable as possible upon release. Don`t know about the other users over here.

Thank you for your hard work, I know it must not be easy!

PS Sorry for my English. It's not my first language.

@qrocknet - The release set for September 30th is supposed to be a beta, not an release candidate or v1.

I missed that somewhere?
Wait a minute I am confused now. The release date of the 30th of September on Steam is for a beta / early access?
The pre-order before the 30th of September is for a BETA release (see webpage of Game Guru MAX official page)?

If this is the case, this is misleading. But I do not think this is the case. The release was mentioned as September 30th 2020 (it was even the 1rst at some point on Steam).

lol, I nearly said the same a week or 2 ago... but yes... on the steam site u can see, its released as "early access". so, sure there will be bugs inside...
Just a question, can we create stand alone exes with the release version on 30th?

Yes the first release is Early Access , Beta, whatever you want to call it.
You should be able to create standalones but personally i wish they would disable that for now .

Nothing unusual for steam dates to be pushed back or forward. You have to put something when you create the page.
Happens all the time.

"You should be able to create standalones but personally i wish they would disable that for now ."
Well, I know what u mean, but I want to continue my 2 years project. And I want to see where are the bugs in the stand alone game...

The pre-orders get you access to the alpha versions. The September 30 release is a beta. It's pretty simple and has been stated a few times in various places. Whenever someone purchases MAX, they will get a final release at some point.

I realise that but the bugs in Max Beta will obviously carry over to the standalone ... I just meant after a couple Updates / Fixes would be more stable for accurate reporting and as we know some do not care and will release anything to money grab on steam.

Yes, can you imagine the rubbish people will try to sell on Steam!

I'm kinda tired of seeing just brown skins!
And I'm not racist! I'm talking walls! Just everything in MAX demo videos have
had a brown drab tint. Okay, it's just an old cellar, but get my drift? Not even
as good as Batman in Gotham city nights!
How about a second demo level that looks like maybe...? Fortnite or something
(sorry to be so cliche). Maybe a corner or two of shiny stuff and popping colors?
We just want Steam investigators to see the whole potential- yeah?

--- So can't wait to see some of our great forum users and their tremendous
MAX SHOWCASE levels very shortly!

The pink cellar just did not work well
J/K

Here ya go something a little lighter

Who do I have to bribe to get that Protacope into MAX as one of the sample levels? It looks totally amazing and I agree it would provide some contrast to the darkness of the Cellar Demo, even if it's just a physics demonstration, etc.

Funnily enough it is less a physics demonstration (for that use the fork lift truck!) and more a Lua scripting demonstration.

Basically the whole thing came out of the pickuppables script!

As to the visuals, ooh shiny!

@ Lee

I wonder if the great forum modelers would consider donating just one item (or two)
with all the PBR whistles and fits into the sci- fi genre... (Animated even sweeter!)

If so, maybe we would plonk together, with the stock foliage in GG already-
(if that's coming along with MAX,) a random procedural "No Man's Sky" type level.
Also- is Galaxy seed available to use? Game dynamics/ objectives would be kinda
loose or irrelevant to start with.

Anyone game? Bad or good idea?

Will there be some DLCs for Max on release day?

yes, Protascope and Cogwheel Chronicles (there are others) are probably the best looking games I have ever seen in GG.
Nice one getting that into MAX alpha Synchro

To be honest right now its just the models .. I have not tried any of the custom functionality, Scripts or anything yet and i know the glass models i made could be a problem as i used Multi-texture to get round GG glass issues.
Let me see what actually works and i may be able to get a demo or something going

@BOTR Thanks but it is just the level ( walkabout ) at the moment. Looks like my day is now planned out

2 questions

Q1. Heavy snow at present looks not very heavy at all more the ultimate of light snowfall,, but the question is will you have zones or sliders to be able to change intensity?
a good idea to keep it more interesting would be to have a slow random quantity mode to rain and snow also a good old lightning random. just if you want a really good storm...

Q2. [color=blue]if you have it snowing and you enter a building will you be able to have a no weather zone[/color]. so it still works and if you are stood in the doorway or looking through a window or under a bridge it is still snowing but not indoors.
this was something i spent a year on with fpsc and x10, i never got to attempt this on gg as it was still in a state of so many other problems that this would be a simple bottom of the pile list. i had made progress but was limited on fpsc and x10 due to program limitations. and this was before LUA so im lost again. just if weather is added i think it should be also with the control to keep it as real as possible

just questions and ideas

I wouldn't be expecting Max to do this really. There's still the issue that you have to place every possible object into the game as in GG. No Mans sky has a lot more clever coding behind the randomness than that. We have been told there are no plans to add either direct loading of entities or creation of primitives in code. If you want procedurally generated levels then Unity or Unreal or even AGK are far better bets. oh and of course some good programming skills or deep pockets.

It is true that when I bougth GGM I thougth the first final release was planned to end of September. I didn´t see anything regarding early access, or beta version either. I bougth for a direct download from the GameGuru WebPage instead using steam. So I didn´t see any message explaining that issue. At the same time I discovered that the hardware specifications are dificult to found and I realized after the second Beta that the software does not run well with laptos that use two graphic cards.

I bougth also two licenses for GG classic (One for me and another one for my 8 years old son ). He likes it a lot. (@Lee. thanks to provide the "parental control").

@Lee, I would like to suggest you to update the web information regarding those issues, just to avoid claims on it.

This is the first Final release planned for the end of September... Hopefully with second, third, forth final release's to follow When you say "first" i assume you realised there would be more to do.


Also it depends on your Gfx card as Max has always required a minimum of a GTX960 or equivalent.
Laptops Mobile cards are usually not as powerful

@ Lee
1- Does GGMax will support multi-texture?
2- Do you plane to expose those sun/light settings via LUA?

About snow/rain stopping when player get indoors in GG is really easy to get via LUA, I just add some full transparent texture at the last place, in a sequence of 5 semi-transparent images (000, 001,002,003,004.png), and show the transparent one in indoors, and the other ones in outdoors. Anyway GGMax is going with snow/rain via particles and the approach must be different, I have not yet delved into this, I prefer to wait to have something more definitive and stable with GGMax before approaching any serious project.

For sure, GG classic still receive updates . But, really, I though in September we will have a 1.0 version instead a Beta. But do not get me wrong, it is not a complaint, I am exposing what was understood in the ads on the web.



The issue was that the Alpha runs perfectly, (but at 15fps) qith the Intel graphics card, but crashes with the Nvidia before start the app. Very extrange. But doesn´t matter.

I like the path GGM is taking. Although I think I will not be able to take advantage of it as I would like, since not many people have a powerful card that can run the executables it generates.
The classic version allows my son to play his little games and share them with his friends. The new version will be far from being able to afford it.
Because to be honest, I don't think I will create a game of high enough level to distribute it commercially. The purpose of buying GGM is more related to creating things for own consumption or learning or getting started in the concepts of programming games. But if I can not share the created games with anyone of my friends, (because they need a powerfull PC) ... it will be a shame.

I never programed anything before, I never used Blender before, but I used GG classic to start learning and try to teach my son at the same time. And we're having so much fun

@ Dvader-
"If you want procedurally generated levels then Unity or Unreal or even AGK are far better bets."

Are you saying that AGK can spawn entities via script?

@Burgos I'd wait untill the final release of Max comes out and see if it runs better for you. And really to run a standalone game you don't need a powerful card. At least not by today's standards.
I don't know how old your son is but honestly if you and your son are having fun making games, you may want to look into investing into a decent computer. Like pick it out together with him It will help your son learn what all the hardware stuff means, like what a video card does, why this cpu is better than that cpu, what ram is.. etc. Having a powerful computer is almost a part of the game design hobby. They usually go hand in hand. Not to mention it could legitimately get him far ahead of his peers for the future job prospects. As it seems younger people understand less and less how computers work these days.

@3com Yes max does support multitextured objects of course there is reasonable limits, however you will be able to use them without issue and without the performance hit you got in classic.

@Kitakazi. I did it. I bougth a powerfull PC some weeks ago. And I also bougth an additional GG classic license.
So now I can play Multiplayer games with my 7 years old son using the 2 GG classic accounts. And also we can play with GGM in the new PC. But for now if we would like to play together (MP) with GGM we will need an additional powerfull PC (The old one is not enougth) And this is crazy. I hope, as you said, the generated standalone does not require those specifications, so we will be able to play together or send the game to my son's friends. As I try to said, I am sure we are not going to produce comercial games and GG classic is enougth for us.
Children wants to play one each other with their creations.
Additionally, I discover GG is a good entry point for the children to start making games and I planning to prepare some classrooms for them (at the same time I doing with my son) but again here I need a software that could fits with the current PC they have. I can not tell their parents that they need to buy a better computer, (because with COVID is not recomended to go to the phisical classroom).

Well, this is not the thread to talk about those things, maybe.

@ wizard of id
Nice to know, thanks for the tip.

Maybe some sort of terrainspec file where you can state the texturesource material (amoung others), might help.

Lee mentioned this to me in a email. I assume this is due to the entirely new rendering pipeline being far better in dealing with things like this. However it will still add draw calls per texture added. Still doesn't mean you can do it with an entire level it just means if you have a large building you will be able to better texture it and it won't costs an arm and leg.

Thought I should mention it, before people go nuts and then complain about slow performance lol

the entire engine is script/code so yes.

Protascope does look a lot better in Max though, a demo would be a good thing to add to steam to show some better eye candy - the cellar demo looks decent enough but it's way too empty and has no atmosphere right now, you need more sound design to really sell a horror game

i'm also worried if Max is going to be released with very little testing.. seems like not a lot was learnt from the release of classic on steam, i would recommend holding off the release tbh (early access or not), you won't win any prizes for half finished features and Max doesn't offer enough new stuff yet to really warrant the release... i know it's only a "beta / early access" but once it's out and reviews/ratings are allowed you will get a lot of negative feedback again for the millions of bugs you're bound to have - people are going to ask why they need to pay again for a less working version of the previous engine with slightly better visuals that they have a hard time recreating.
don't get me wrong, i'm glad classic is being replaced by max, it is a much better direction but it isn't ready for a release.


standalone or not will still require the same specs, you can try to reduce the requirements as much as possible if you remove post processing etc so it will run better but if there are any hard requirements (such as shader levels, dx10 etc) you will need to meet those or it won't work at all

.
britain doesn't see much snow

yes agree, end September release is far too ambitious, more like December/Jan 2021 maybe.

I agree too, GGMax should come with Santa as usual.
Anyway, before the official release, TGC needs a beta to be tested for us.

@ wizard of id
Yes, I agree, there are many meshes, special compound meshes than need to be multi-textures, such a large building as you pointed above.

It should be noted, wicked engine does all the heavy lifting, Lee basically integrated the code so to speak with what he needed so a lot less is likely to go wrong on that front.Most of the negative reviews was a result of the dated graphics and poor performance while there were some complaints about bugs it was nearly as bad as performance and graphics.

Lee WILL add a beta/early access screen informing users this is the early access version for testing and reporting bugs.Steam users are a lot more forgiving if you are up front and honest about what state the current project is in right now.There will be some trolls of course, there is going to be negative reviews whether it is 100% bug free or 10 bugs.Just how it works on steam.

It should be remembered while TGC has gotten pre order development funds it will slow down at some point and will need to continue to fund the project.Unlike classic they don't have a private investor this time around nor did they receive funding from special backer tiers either.

I bet you that max was done on a shoestring budget, they are pressed for a release, which isn't a bad thing they just have to be completely up front and honest with the users.Make it abundantly clear of early access status !!!!!!

They will release a few betas in october and the full version will come in november thats what i think

@gubbyblips "Are you saying that AGK can spawn entities via script?" Yes, it's called a programming language for a reason Never found one that can't yet. GG not being able to do it has always been a bug bear for me. Makes it more of a glorified game editor than a proper coding language.
Edit - In AGK cube textures generated on the fly in game as you progress.

In game one object of each type loaded or created, the rest are instanced.

Note that Lee's own pinned posed on the Game-Guru Steam forums still indicates "GameGuru MAX will officially launch on 1st September 2020 and you can find it now in the coming soon section here..."

https://steamcommunity.com/app/266310/discussions/0/2988638509626525732/



Just a heads up. Also the original promos for it were billed as having the final master release out in Sept. Of course development slips a lot, but I do believe the original marketing didn't intend for betas to just begin in Sept.

Thank you xCept. That was my point, when I said previously it was misleading.
Now, I think it should be cleared out on the main site to avoid new users who will pay the full price of 50$ (30th September) to think they might get a final release. Avoids frustrations I think.

@xCept

Nothing there says " Final Master " only Official Release \ Launch which is just the release date its available to everyone. What version gets released , Beta, early access or full is still up to the developers.


No its not if you read what i just posted.

Hi everyone,

Personally, as a hobbyist, I am very satisfied with the current state of development of Game Guru.
The Alpha version is quite good to make interesting experiments and to enjoy the beautiful realtime rendering of the Wicked Engine powering GG Max.

About the multi materials meshes imported in Game Guru Max, I want to show the following experiment made with a mesh created with these tools :
- creation of the textures : Filter Forge 9 Pro (64 bit) .
- creation of the PBR materials using those FF9 textures : ShaderMap 4.3.4 Pro.
- creation of the mesh : MetaSequoia 4 Pro (64 bit version); modelling and UV mapping -> export in FBX format.

Workflow 'MetaSequoia - GameGuru Max Alpha 6.1' shown in this video uploaded on Movavi Cloud (122 MB = 3 min 14 sec) : http://cloud.movavi.com/show/ERqwbTSr3DWMpvFz6f0a84xL59NVYnm2

In this second video, I show a Game Guru Max Alpha 6.1 scene with a lot of those 'split_sphere' meshes created with the previously explained workflow.The animated mesh 'uber soldier' found in the GG Classic Library is also included.
Link of the video on Movavi Cloud (70 MB = 36 sec) : http://cloud.movavi.com/show/Q8VDic0oSaEWGm9LUdKvRu4BkNfgn3hZ

- Minor bug relative to the import of static meshes in Game Guru Max Alpha 6.1 : status 'enabled' of the 'Cast Shadows' setting is not saved correctly in the .FPE file.
- Major bug relative to the import of a multi materials mesh : when the project is saved and then reopened, the mesh is shown with only its first material. In the second uploaded video, those 'golden spheres' came from a saved project. They originally had six materials like the ones added afterwards in the reopened project.
- The combination of the settings 'Transparent' and 'Cast Shadows' should be available for the meshes where the textures contains transparency generated by the alpha channel (for instance : trees).
- The fact that those material settings are applied to the full set of the materials contained in a mesh could be a problem for specific cases
(for instance : animated figures created with this workflow - a very easy one - : 'MakeHuman - Blender - BVH animation' have their eyes using a transparent texture. If the setting 'Cast Shadows' is enable, then the eyes of those figures appear with a white colour ).

And to conclude this comment, I want to show this commented screen capture showing that - surprisingly - the textures imported in jpeg format seems to work nicely in Game Guru Max.



Thanks for watching.

Again, I think it is the right choice to delay launch but your comment just isn't accurate. The second screenshot I posted comes direct from TGC's IGG campaign in which the FAQs state "We will be releasing alpha builds to any backers from now until the final release version in September. Then you will get access to the final master build."

If you read over the past TGG newsletters from March onward, they all reference alpha builds available and discount pre-ordering "GameGuru MAX, set for release in September." Nothing was implied until very recently that the Steam release slated for Sept. would just be alpha/beta state yet.

I have backed all the GG/TGC products including Max, but can appreciate users who have concern over scope-creep and a perpetual "Early Access" state that so many products end up as.

Except, in this case, Lee has been very clear about what is and isn't to be included in MAX. When answering questions from live broadcasts and here on the forums, he has stated a clear "no plans", "good idea, possible in the future, but not for release", or "Yes". So far, there's been no "scope-creep" (feature creep) with MAX. He's been consistent and, so far, so has MAX (in this regard). Thus, despite paste experiences with FPSCreator and GameGuru, I see no reason for concern when it comes to feature-creep.

Secondly, so what if the date got moved? Like you, yourself said, it's the right choice. A statement on a web page is not a contract. It's a goal. Where Lee could have gone wrong is if he didn't say anything and just let the original release date pass. Instead, he's been pretty upfront with all of us. So, it's the right call (as you've agreed). If someone had purchased, they get an alpha now, a beta soon, and a final release down the road. If they've not purchased, they've lost nothing and can wait for the final release ... whenever it is finally released.

Cool.