Hi All,

An item came up in a recent team discussion, along the lines of limiting the formats available to you from the AssImp implementation, so we can focus on the more common 3D model formats. To this end, please post your preferences on the model formats you would like to see 'fully' supported. The logic being that we can officially focus on a smaller set and get those better, rather than focusing on 30+ formats and thinning out the focus.

Internally, we are very interested in supporting the legacy X files (for backwards compatibility), OBJ as a good common static format, FBX as the old standard for storing animated models and GLTFv2 as the up and coming 3D format of choice.

If you had only 5 model formats, which ones would you choose? We will be using this thread to tally up the popularity of 3D formats in order to weight them in terms of priority for our internal testing, so think carefully before choosing your favourite five. Good luck!

Hello

1. OBJ - (ASCII variant is neutral, binary variant is proprietary)
2. X - (Legacy)
3. FBX - (Proprietary)
4. GLTF - (Proprietary)
5. COLLADA (DAE) - (Neutral)

For those that need to know a little about the popular formats this is what i know:

3D Files Format : OBJ
The OBJ file format is another neutral heavyweight in the field of 3D printing. It is also widely used in 3D graphics. It was first developed by Wavefront Technologies for its Advanced Visualization animation package. The 3D file format has the extension .OBJ.

MAIN CHARACTERISTICS
The OBJ file format supports both approximate and precise encoding of surface geometry. When using the approximate encoding, it doesn’t restrict the surface mesh to triangular facets. If the user wants, he can use polygons like quadrilaterals. When using precise encoding, it uses smooth curves and surfaces such as NURBS.

The OBJ format can encode color and texture information. This information is stored in a separate file with the extension .MTL (Material Template Library). It does not support any kind of animation. The format specifies both ASCII and binary encodings, but only the ASCII encoding is open source.

POPULARITY AND FUTURE PROSPECTS
The OBJ file format, by virtue of being neutral or open, is one of the most popular interchange formats for 3D graphics. It is also gaining traction in the 3D printing industry as the industry moves towards full color printing.

WHICH INDUSTRIES USE IT?
3D graphics, 3D printing


3D Files Format : FBX
FBX is a proprietary file format which is widely used in the film industry and video games. It was originally developed by Kaydara but was bought by Autodesk in 2006. Ever since the acquisition, AutoDesk has used FBX as an interchange format for its own portfolio which includes AutoCAD, Fusion 360, Maya, 3DS Max and other software packages.

MAIN CHARACTERISTICS
The FBX file format supports geometry and appearance related properties like color and textures. It also supports skeletal animations and morphs. Both binary and ASCII files are supported.

POPULARITY AND FUTURE PROSPECTS
FBX is one of the most popular choices for animation. In addition, it is also used as an exchange format which facilitates high fidelity exchange between 3DS Max, Maya, MotionBuilder, Mudbox and other proprietary software.

WHICH INDUSTRIES USE IT?
Video game industry and film industry.

3D Files Format : COLLADA
Collada is a neutral file format used heavily in the video game and film industry. It is managed by the non-profit technology consortium, the Khronos Group. The file extension for the COLLADA format is .DAE.

MAIN CHARACTERISTICS
The COLLADA format supports geometry, appearance related properties like color, material, textures, and animation. In addition, it is one of the rare formats supporting kinematics and physics. The COLLADA format stores data using the XML markup language.

POPULARITY AND FUTURE PROSPECTS
The original intention behind the COLLADA format was to become a standard among 3D file formats. Indeed, in 2013, it was adopted by ISO as a publicly available specification, ISO/PAS 17506. As a result of this history, lots of 3D modeling software support the COLLADA format.

However, the consensus is that the COLLADA format hasn’t kept up with the times. The COLLADA format was once used heavily as an interchange format for Autodesk Max/Maya in the film industry, but the industry has now shifted more towards OBJ, FBX, and Alembic.

WHICH INDUSTRIES USE IT?
Film industry, video game industry.

3D Files Format : 3DS
3DS is a proprietary file format used in architecture, engineering, education, and manufacturing. It is native to the old Autodesk 3D Studio DOS, a popular modeling software which was later replaced by its successor 3D Studio MAX in 1996. Developed in the 90s, it is one of the oldest 3D file formats. It has become one of the de facto industry standards for storing 3D models or for interchanging between two other proprietary formats.

MAIN CHARACTERISTICS
The 3DS file format retains only the most basic information about geometry, appearance, scene, and animation. It uses a triangular mesh to encode the surface geometry approximately, the total number of triangles being limited to 65536. It stores appearance related properties like color, texture, material, transmissivity etc. Scene information such camera position, lights can also be stored, but the format does not support directional light sources.

The 3DS format specifies a binary encoding and stores information in chunks. This allows parsers to skip chunks they don’t recognize and allows for extensions to the format.

POPULARITY AND FUTURE PROSPECTS
Being one of the oldest file formats, 3DS has become a standard for storing 3D models and interchanging between other 3D file formats. Virtually all 3D software packages support it. However, since this format retains only the most basic information about the 3D model, it cannot be used in situations where one does not want to lose information. In this case, this format needs to supplemented by the MAX format (now superseded by the PRJ format), which contains extra information specific to Autodesk 3DS Max, to allow a scene to be completely saved/loaded.

WHICH INDUSTRIES USE IT?
Architecture, engineering, education, and manufacturing.

GLTF - Information https://www.khronos.org/gltf/

Please note .BLEND files are project files they are not 3D image files so dont add .BLEND

1. Gltf
2. Fbx
3. Obj
4. x

1.3DS(max)
2.X
3.Blend
4.FBX
5.Dae(collada)
6.OBJ

GLTF of course!



source

And for instance, obj format solves many compatibility issues with old models.
Really fbx is going to store animations in GGMax? I'm not talking about vertex animations, but anims make with a cloth (ie: waving flag) or other modifiers like noise animations, and so on.

The question here is how many of the gltf goodies are you willing to support, in GGMax?

Edit: Scene made via cloth modifier (3ds max 2015).
I did that scene times ago via 3ds max to GG, but X file does not store anims done via modifiers such as cloth, mcloth, noise, slice, etc.

1. GLTF
2. FBX
3. OBJ
4. X
5. USD

Notes:

GLTF support is obvious, to me. Most 3D modelers either now support GLTF export or there are plugins that add it. GLTF is much more robust than OBJ, FBX, and X in many aspects. It's also an easy to read format so if you need to dig into it for some reason, you can.

FBX should be supported only because of how industry-wide the support is. However, it tends to change all the time, is a pain in the butt for developers, and requires licensing, too, which costs money (thanks, Autodesk!). It's not as robust as GLTF, but still should be supported due to the wide variety of models available in this format.

OBJ should be supported only because it's so heavily supported industry-wide. It's got many limitations, but there are just so many models out there in OBJ format that it sort of demands being supported.

.X should only be supported for legacy reasons. It's an outdated 3D format that isn't even supported any longer.

If Assimp supports USD (Universal Scene Description), then that should be added to the list. USD is a Pixar format that is trying to become a standard for ALL 3D (thus, the name "universal" in it's title). Many 3D modelers are in the process of adding USD support if they don't have it already. USD may even be more powerful than GLTF and with Pixar behind it, should seriously be considered.

https://graphics.pixar.com/usd/docs/index.html

1. Obj
2. Fbx
3. Gltf
4. x

Dave

Blend is NOT a model format. It's a project format for Blender. A .blend file cannot be imported as a model into an engine because it does not contain model data in a format that a model importer will understand.

The closest you will get to importing via .blend is the way Unity does it, which doesn't actually really import from .blend, it actually runs a python script that loads blender, instructs it to export the models as .FBX, then closes blender quicker than you can see, so if you use .blend files you also have to have blender installed otherwise it won't work, it also doesn't work very well, it's full of issues and even Unity recommend only using the feature as a way to quickly view the models in Unity as you are working on them, and to export them as .FBX for the final import .

As far as i know, no model format stores modifiers to be used externally.

@Belidos
Understand, since blender can export to any other format from my list it doesnt matter

I think FBX can do it

Yeah, there is no need to import a .blend file into a 3D game engine (or into anything else, for that matter). It is a Blender specific file that stores a ton more data than is needed, such as how your UI is set up, where the view port was last set, etc. None of that is needed in a game engine. Secondly, there is no reason to have a game engine import .blend because Blender has a ton of export features, including GLTF. Thirdly, if you don't build your models according to the specifications of the game engine (i.e how it uses PBR, Y-up or Z-up, etc.) then attempting to import a .blend will get you some strange results in the engine. However, if you've built your model according to your game engines specs, then using any of the export formats the engine supports (like GLTF) will do the job.

Every 3D modeling program has their own file format. .max for 3DS Max, .mb for Maya, .lxo for MODO, and more. None of these natively import into a game engine. Again, this is because they contain a ton of information that, while useful to the program they are used with, are useless to a game engine (i.e. a game engine could care less about how many views were left open in your 3D modeler's modeling view port, etc.). Why would you want the engine's imported to have to parse through all that? Instead, export to a file format that carries with it exactly what you need and then there are no issues.

1. GLTF
2. FBX
3. OBJ
4. X


Cheers!

Nor the modifier itself, but animations made via modifier, ie: a waving flag animated via cloth modifier.
The issue here is then almost all file formats store animations via keyframes, and those modifiers do not keyframe their animations.



https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU/3DSMax/files/GUID-BBD466E2-DC18-467C-958F-B06E2C575EA3-htm.html

So... Not DBO? As I've seen some of these on TGC store--

Not a modeler, so I looked up info and seems like
Collada
is suggested as an all around useful format.
https://all3dp.com/3d-file-format-3d-files-3d-printer-3d-cad-vrml-stl-obj/

DBO? Isn't that the old Dark Basic file format? There is absolutely no need for that in GameGuruMAX.

As far as Collada, it's a mixed bag. Back when it originally came out, it was intended to be a universal 3D file format, especially for game engines. But it can be buggy at times, from what I've seen/heard. In any case, Collada was developed by Khronos group, who now puts out GLTF v2. So, you can suppose that GLTF has supplanted DAE (Collada).

Unless someone is going to go through a ton of packs and convert the DBO files to .X or .FBX I imagine DBO is a given, maybe a hidden one though, i.e. handled under the covers rather than advertised as a feature.

Yes, currently sitting in my TGC "cart" is a .DBO object without any .X file mentioned.

Maybe I could get back to creative game scripting, but boy did I get a tad burned,
and some other work came along- we'll see.

DBO is a given for keeping, simply for backwards compatibility for old models, a lot of the older stuff doesn't have an .X model and only has the converted DBO file.

GameGuru does not actually run .X files. It runs DBO files.
All the models are converted and compressed to that once you launch them in game.
Check out your standalones all the models are DBO.
Not a single .x file in sight

1.X file
2.FBX

It prefers dbo files but can also run x files

Not really no .. When you run your models they are converted to .dbo , like i said check your standalones or your model folder. Once you run it in GameGuru. you will see a .dbo file has been added and this is what GameGuru runs. Not the .X file.

My list pretty much the same

1. Gltf
2. Fbx
3. Obj
4. x
5. 3ds ( would be handy for us sketchup users and we are more than you think )

@Syncromesh. Dark Basic actually supported .3ds models directly. It supported .x as well but it was way easier (if using 3dsmax) to get animated models in and such. So when people say .blend couldn't be supported they are likely wrong.

DBO files have been the norm for TGC products since Dark Basic Pro. As said above ALL GG models get converted to them. Store models that do not include a .x file are normally that way on purpose (to stop you changing them or using in another engine).

Regarding model formats I don't care as long as it is easy to make something in Blender and export out directly to Max, be it a table or a T-Rex As long as I don't have to go through 1 or 2 other programs to convert them.

First of all .3ds is not 3DS Max's file format. .max is. 3DS is just another file format like obj, fbx, etc., though with many limitations (given its age, etc.). Secondly, why would you want to support .blend files? I mean, sure, it would make it easier to go from Blender to GameGuruMAX, but then why not also support the other 3D modelers out there and support .max, .lxo, .mb, and more? Frankly, you don't want to support any of these file formats. They serve a purpose that is specific to the program they are generated by. The .blend file will save, not only 3D data, but view port data, info for Collections, all the modifiers currently in use, all the lighting, null objects, Cycles materials and nodes, render settings, and a ton of other data that GameGuruMAX will never ever need. So why parse through all of that just to get what you need into GameGuruMAX. This is why 3D software, like Blender and all the rest, have exporters - so you can export out the pertinent data to bring it into other 3D software, including games.

Now, what would be better, is if someone could create a BRIDGE between Blender and GameGuruMAX. Many 3D programs have bridges to the Unreal engine, allowing you to send pertinent data directly to the engine from the modeler, allowing you to make changes in the 3D modeling program and seeing those changes in the engine directly via the bridge. But I doubt that GameGuruMAX will ever get something like this (unless a third party creates one). So, the best option is to get decent import functions, via Assimp. This does not include program specific file formats such as .blend, .lxo, .max, etc.

It's generally the other way round, the bridge is from the engine to the modelling program, but yeah you're spot on. Basically the way they do it isn't that the data is being read directly, what's happening is the engine is running a script (usually python) that hooks into the modelling programs API and instructs the program to export the model as FBX into the engines project folder, or into a memory cache somewhere, which the engine then uses. Unity is a good example of this, its script actually loads Blender, sends it the instructions via Blenders python API, then closes it again so quickly you don't even know it's happening.

Not with MODO's Unreal Bridge. It's a bridge from MODO to Unreal allowing you to update via a "server" that connects the two programs. This is all done in real-time.



So, an actual bridge allows real-time changes in the modeler to be pushed directly to the 3D engine that is connected to the bridge and data is bi-directional.

I think everyone will agree we need formats that will make media import easy and simple, no converters for characters and the like as we need to use now.
If we get models in .x format here we will still have no real way to alter them, as I've not found any converter that will convert animated .x files. Blender has dropped support of .x as well, so to export .x you will have to go back to 2.79 I think. When we had .3ds in DB all we had to do is load it into max, add or tweak an animation and save it out again It would be great to be able to do that in GG Max in some way.

OBJ is great for non animated objects. We just need a really good one for animations as well. I'll leave it to you guys to decide what is best.

OBJ has it's limitations, like only one UV map per OBJ. So, it's good for one object export.

For animation - FBX and GLTF. USD, too, if Assimp supports it.

1. Gltf
2. Fbx especially animated models
3. Obj
4. x
5. 3ds

EUR and GBP

Bridges even exist between 3d apps, ie: I can send a model from 3ds Max to Zbrush or substance painter, or vice-versa.
What engine importer usually does is convert the file to their own internal format, to work with.
FBX storing animations might be a good choice.

[dreamming mode]
A bridge would be the best since all the most relevant data comes directly from the source.
[\dreamming mode]

I do not have any issue with fbx since I use Bond1 X exporter for X file, and Game Exporter Utility for fbx from 3ds Max, although I need GG and/or GGMax handling fine fbx with animations.