Check out GameGuru MAX live broadcast #05 which features a peek at the new 64-bit IMGUI working and rendering, a glimpse at the new Zombie and news about OpenXR support within Steam:


You also had questions during the live chat, and your answers to every question can be found below:

Q> ​Is there a guide on your channel on how to make and import weapons into GG?
A> The only guide is a doc file you can find in the Docs folder of GameGuru Classic. For MAX we plan to produce a proper guide with illustrations and actual template files to get you started.

Q> With the square brush Paint tool will there be a snap/grid option for painting ie roads with markings?
A> There are no plans for a snap/grid tool for terrain sculpting, but it is a good idea. Pose it in the GG forums or below and we will see if it has traction and what functionality you would expect it to have.

Q> Will we finally be able to make proper caves with the terrain tools?
A> There are no plans to add a cave creation tool in MAX, you will need to create your caves the old fashioned way which is to carve a deep gorge into your terrain and then populate the floor, sides and roof with imported entities.

Q> ​Gameguru missed decal and entity wall snapping we had in fpscreator can we please, please have that back?
A> There is a flag in SETUP.INI called "disablesurfacesnap=0" which when set to zero will allow entities to snap to the sides of entities such as walls.

Q> Make hole in terrain please?
A> No plans to allow holes to be carved 'through' the terrain geometry at this time (see above for alternative).

Q> Any improvements to the widget menu and will be able to swap out entity textures via editor?
A> Yes there will be improvement to the widget to manipulate entities, and adjustment to the menu. No plans to be able to swap textures of entities from the properties panel, only at the point you import a model and create an entity.

Q> ​Will we be able to import our old GG models into the GGmax engine for the VR?
A> Yes you will be able to manually copy over your old Classic assets into the MAX entitybank folder and they will work (with the exception of the old Character Creator characters).

Q> Do you know what the minimum system requirements are going to be for GGMax yet?
A> No final minimum specification has been set yet but it will not be less than a GTX 960 at this time.

Q> Can we start with a blank canvas i.e no terrain so that we can create indoor scenes or space shooters.
A> It's not on our dev plan but I agree a tickbox (or something) in the terrain tool to disable all terrain geometry is a good idea!

Q> I'm new to GameGuru (pre-ordered MAX)... Does it support variables or flags so you can tell if a user has touched something, picked up an item etc?
A> You would use our built-in LUA scripting system to control all your logic, so yes you can detect all manner of things in your game levels, and make it as sophisticated as your scripting skills will allow.

Q> Aare you going to have - good underwater fx and weather systems?
A> No plans to substantially improve the underwater effects, but we are adding some weather effects which you can select as dropdown choices in MAX. It will only be basic support for weather but with scripting control you can improve the logic if you don't mind scripting.

Q> ​Will there be any new setting in the tab menu when you run the game?
A> We are seriously considering an overhaul of the TAB TAB menu panels as they get pretty crowded on a small resolution. No firm plans on what replaces it, but watch out for a future progress update which may touch on this question.

Q> ​Are going to be new 3d models formats for GameGuru MAX?
A> Yes, we are 'hoping' to use Asset Importer (AssImp) which will support FBX, GLTF, and OBJ out of the box, which will be great for finding models out there and importing them into GameGuru MAX.

If you want more questions answering live or in your bi-weekly live broadcast, mark Wednesday 4PM in your diary and fire away once I start speaking. Until next time, happy game making!

Excellent ..
Thanks Lee

Cool another update on progress

Dave

Back at work here, but I will be watching it later. Thanks Lee.

Gonna say, not keen on the zombie. The animation mostly, his arm seems to fold very unrealistically. Really needs a more lifelike movement. There's plenty of ref material to use for zombies so no excuses!

Hi Lee , I don’t want to carve through. I mean delete a couple polys in the mesh terrain and slot a model in the hole. Like in the side of a hill for instance

Edit. Or export the terrain to work on outside GG Max and import back in

Dave

Thanks for the Update Lee!
All Great News!

Hi Lee.

What about an actual grid and snapping, both user-definable, as per just about every other 3D software, be it 3D modeling or game creation editor? Snapping is pretty important and the current implementation in Classic is severely lacking. Are they are any plans for something like this for the GameGuru MAX editor?

Well, this time visuals don't help a lot, anyway I guess you were talking about VR, thus it does not matter.


or being able to import terrain meshes to be used for the engine as terrain, that way we can bring our terrain with the holes and caves already done.

I hope the reflection bug get fixed in the final version...
I mean the reflection in the water close to the wall ( seen in the videos before)

It isn't a bug per say, gloss/roughness is up to artist interpretation, there is nothing like a wrong gloss/roughness map.

Wow really! These two things were going to be added from day one.

Will MAX get multiple grass types on the same map, or has that been dropped as well?

MAX was starting to look good. but already dropping key anticipated features is very disappointing.

OldFlak....

I don't recall Lee ever promising that MAX would allow holes in the terrain for creating caves and the like. I've always understood him to have said that that would NOT be a part of MAX. Do you have a quote from him saying that holes in terrain would be a part of MAX?

@OldFlak. Never heard that holes in the terrain were ever promised, or multiple grass types.

Sure multiple grass types were listed, but we already have that. Multiple grass on one level, no, still not promised The grass description is misleading at best. I did say when Max was released to reword or remove that from the listing. It's not untrue, but is misleading to us who already have GG, as it eludes to more than one type per scene, which it is not.

I think I do remember Lee asking if this was a request, and if there was any good
sources for voxel type terrain open sources-? Well, you use height maps or you
use something else. Very early on Lee showed the MAX terrain system, which
certainly didn't hint at any voxel type workings. That would be great to see,
but it looks like the choosing is far gone and done. Anyhow, here's a teaser to
show just what's possibilities.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3iI2l0ltbE

It was on the main page for MAX, Belidos reminded Lee of it and he conceded he was correct.

No terrain and holes in terrain were also spoken of both here on the forums, and on Discord and Lee was all for making it happen.
But as usual good luck finding where it was specifically said, and if you find it we'll argue whether blue is really blue or not. Typical TGC antics at play again. Say one thing and then do the complete opposite.

GG Classic all over again....

OldFlak....

Yeah that's what I thought too. Lee briefly toyed with the idea of voxel terrain but a different direction was chosen.



Something else I noticed today, and this might be me nitpicking, but the banner image used across MAX's promotional pages is also a bit misleading.



It's a stock image of a bend in a road in the mountains. I get why they used it; it symbolises the road of development, the new direction Game Guru is heading in, the vista symbolises the opportunities that await game developers. But from a purely objective POV, this scene does not represent what you can make in Game Guru. There's no road tool, much less a curved one, and the foliage looks photorealistic (because it is real), which our game assets will not - despite Wicked engine and Bond1's excellent models.

So they used a stock image to promote their product, loads of companies do this, why does this matter? Because all the other images on the page are scenes and screenshots from the engine itself.



The implication is that road scene is too. I'm sure they just picked it because it was a nice-looking image. I'm sure they didn't deliberately set out to mislead potential buyers. I'm sure the blurring of the image on the homepage is to make the text in front of it stand out, not to hide the fact it's a photo rather than an in-engine scene.

All I'm saying is, it might give some buyers the wrong impression.

It's a cool-looking scene though, maybe you should recreate in Max once the terrain system is in.

AE

This has always been a no for me from Day 1 and I can remember it being mentioned several times. At the very most you may find Lee said Nice idea but its always been no plans for this in Max.

Multiple Grass types on the other hand I do recall being considered and likely.

Not so. In this thread from back in April:

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/221773

Lee states the following:



Also from the same thread:



Concerning multiple grasses, I thought Lee was pretty consistent about that being a yes (from the same link):

Agreed, As I said I do recall that being a more positive probable addition although not sure if it was for the September release or just on the roadmap. ( Taking note though the engine had not even been decided back then )

Hmmm well its just a banner … Here is one where ford Advertises its grip on the road ..
Not really what awaits drivers is it

My statement is correct - that was perhaps the first thread to backtrack on it. Now it is not planned at all!

You just have to dig to find stuff - for example:
From Discord
LeeBamberTGC 02/12/2020
There will be an option to switch off terrain completely from the editor yes.

And Now:


Unbelievable.....

Never mind I was mixing quotes up

I'm modeling my own terrain meshes with caves, just in case.

Generating Complex Procedural Terrains Using the GPU

No. Lee has been consistent that MAX's terrain would not have the ability to add holes or to create caves. He hasn't back-tracked, but stayed consistent when responding to questions about terrain, holes, and caves.

Personally I would rather fake it with models.
You can "Tab " to detail inside which you cannot with terrain let alone trying to maneuver around inside .. So even trying to achieve something like this I would imagine this would be a nightmare.

It would be nice at least the water doesn't go inside the caves, I've tested water in mine and the whole cave was flooded, however, it was a lot of fun since it became an underwater scene.

i just want to make a hole , no cave making ,no digging , just a hole to slot a model in

Dave

Do you want to make a hole that is in a horizontal surface, such as a plane? Or do you want to make a hole in a vertical surface, such as in a cliff face?

If the first, then just sculpt out a pit, place your model, and then do any further sculpting to make it fit properly.

If the second, then you won't be able to do that since most terrain systems really only work by displacing up/down. So, one solution is you use models, in conjunction with your terrain, to create the "hole". The models would look like rock, like your terrain. Then you would place your model in the hole you've created.

Putting holes in the terrain would play havoc with the physics engine!

No hole for me then

Dave

Yeah, nope, incorrect. Not talking about caves, just holes in terrain. I am not going to waste time looking for posts with regard to it, but it was spoken of as being considered for MAX.
If cybernescence can do it - perhaps he is more a black-belt that others? - then surely it can be done.

Just like the back-track on the ability to have No Terrain at all.

At this rate, five years from now, we will have an Engine that looks good, has no real features, but requires much beefier hardware than it's predecessor.

Perhaps he did consider it and decided no.
As for the terrain its not even in yet .. why not just hold out and see what happens.

OldFlak, there must be the Mandela Effect at work here.

We want to make holes on terrain, like this one:



To place our meshes inside.

There are other ways, perhaps more believable ways, of faking caves and overhangs using separate meshes to complement the terrain.

The way I did it was to invoke the terrain shaders for cave and other entities made to be part of the terrain. This very nearly makes it look seamless, as if the terrain is all one part of one piece as the textures and lighting looks and responds in the same way (same shader).



The other approach I took was to allow the terrain mesh itself to render on both sides and to allow terrain transparency so that could be used as part of normal texture painting. This doesn't place a hole in the terrain mesh, but looks like it does so that other geometry can be 'inserted' into the hole and it looks the part. If traversal inside the terrain is needed, a small script moved the player past the (transparent) terrain geometry or to fall or move from above terrain to below terrain. It gives underground caves and caverns that obviously mirrored the mountain/hill terrain that was shaped in the editor.

All of this required engine changes I'm afraid, not just shader updates. But does show some extra capability that could be added to classic.

Cheers.

@ ciber
I have tried both apbr_terrain.fx and terrain_basic.fx and my terrain cave mesh becomes invisible in editor and test mode as well,
Or are you referring to custom shaders maybe?
Or I'm doing something wrong?

Herewith apbr_basic.fx shader

It won’t work without engine changes I’m sorry.

Cheers.

Understood, thanks Ciber.
As I said, we need a most collaborative game engine, just to get that sort of thing, anyway in general, it is pretty cool.

@wizard...
I was talking about this bug here in the "GameGuru MAX Cellar Demo May Preview" video from the 21.05.
For me there is something missing, the reflection of the wall in the water... no?



Looks a bit strange without the wall reflection in the water.

@Mookai Yeah I noticed that. Probably not using the actual scenery for reflections. Probably needs a better environment map if it uses one.

Regarding caves. We can make em with media already I don't see why the need for a hole in the terrain exists. Now sure my example here is rubbish and GG seems to have a bug with water levels it seems But have good media and decent lighting and there's no need at all for any extra terrain features beyond it looking better Lighting is the main issue here making the cave look bright and sunny. Why the water seems to think it is still at the original level in the cave though I have no idea. I would suspect the swim code. This would have worked fine in GG before that was introduced.
The example is default media so anyone should be able to use it. I include the script to alter the water.

Can’t explain it again, try making a entrance into the bottom of a mountain

Dave

@synchromesh

Lol Seems caves are a hot topic, one of my up coming models packs, have quite a few caves that is integrated with indoor level building assets.Perhaps not exactly what people are looking for.Will definitely consider making stand alone caves.The bigger issue was they didn't fit in well with the classic terrain, hopefully the rendering system of max will make it look better and more seamless.

@Granada. I have done it's in the post above. Admittedly I didn't go to town on the mountain itself, it's just an example. If you want a gigantic mountain using the terrain you would have to do a basic entrance and then transport into the cave system somewhere else...

One alternative is to have the cave entrance simply transport the player to a different part of the map where you can construct the *real* cave, i.e. separate the internal and external part.

I did this once for a moon base, dug a hole and had a ramp going down to an entrance to an air lock, as you enter the airlock you are transported to an EBE construct which is the *underground* moonbase which in reality I positioned way up in the sky where you couldn't see it.

A underground dug out in the side of a ww2 trench , without trying to cover up the top with a false terrain model part is another example
( No trigger, no transporting , just walk in )

Dave

Well, I'm not saying it wouldn't be convenient to dig tunnels, just can be worked around with a bit/lot of work, dependant on what you need. Seriously there's practically no games out there that use a terrain in that way. It may look like it, but it's just good modelling. If they do, it's because it happens real-time in game, good luck waiting for THAT in GG. Although I can't say some don't use say, transparent textures to help, or as you asked for above, holes in the geometry.

You just need the illusion of an entrance. Skyrim is an example, big open world, but always loads between cave entrances and being in the cave, same for cities. I'd be happy with an engine capable of a game like Skyrim myself. With Max we may be approaching it. In a brute force type way lol (64-bit).

There's no harm in hoping for extra features though I'm sure that someone at TGC could come up with a way to bake a hole into the terrain later down the line, as long as it's flexible enough. That would be a lot easier than having tunnels.

I would rather have the water, swimming sorted given the choice. If there is something extra we want Lee to spend time on that would be it rather than making holes if im honest ..

Well the teleport when reach the entrance is a best option
But maybe a script so you come to the entrance and a question is asked
Enter cave?
If no then you continue on map
If yes then maybe a video of the entrance door opening then it teleports you to the cave no difference to a hole infact i think better