Product Chat / what can still be improved? Let's talk about GGMAX (not another ggmax

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Dave_utopias
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Posted: 16th Mar 2020 02:32
For me, going from game guru to GGmax there is no motivation that pushes me so much, I will be too pretentious but the pot offered is too poor, we regroup together some new points of what it offers:
A modern graphical interface .. (nothing to said)
an improvement in AI (already a few updates ago there has made it have free)
A new CC system (but to be truly appetizing it MUST be at least capable of reshaping characters already created or created by others (for example if I want to change a PG's clothes a bit like mixamo) MUST be able to insert more animations and not the usual limited but aimed at doing exceptional things like getting an object on the ground at the exact point where it is (like on resident evil 2 or other games like RPG), lighting a torch, etc etc;
FBX import I see maybe finally with the animations without the support of FBX2GG (but really could not already be set on the classic? That is' Really really now we have to rely on the external program instead of being the Guru to do it alone? It was not promised but if a what did you implement it seems right to leave it unfinished and ask to switch to GGMax to have something that a neophyte who buys GG (classic) in December finds that he has to wait for another version?
Do you really not launch this "new" (so to speak) software without making an improved graphic impact? To judge it seems that to the human eye it is the same thing ..
But really then still after all these past years you can not yet create the level how big you want?
But really before (i have read it somewhere) with fps creator there was a sort of Speech system and now it is reintroduced not on the guru we know but on the MAX (so it doesn't seem to want to make efforts).
The only real efforts are to rewrite it in photon language for online multiplayer and that's it ... (but I don't care)
and perhaps the weather system (which previously did the users grateful) now works better, together with the sun system and therefore the much agoniate (for others not for me) shadow from the lights.
With game guru classic the possibility of having infinite textures was created but then it was decided to make it to GGMAX (this could be the only positive thing that interests me); but do we want to talk about the possibility or not of having an infinite background?
Change the sky box system ... I'll see in September before I don't care to participate in the discount (if it deserves I will also take it at full price) but for now it is clean slate.
Why don't you tell us what the EBE system will be like? The thing that interests me most? will it be professional? Can an entire world be created without the aid of external software?
Will I be able to create columns, roofs, windows, arches and other geometric shapes without the help of tricks to make it look like what I'm really composing?
Can I or not make sure to skip the loading of the next level as if it were loading in the same map? (for an example an rpg like sacred makes me think that one entered the dungeons and returned on the main map)
In short, things so I make NEW and absolutely to have as a piece of software
You said that there are no plans for the third person and things like swimming etc ... yet the good old wolfenstein ET was so old but able to overcome GGmax he had very much implemented and the gtkradiant (for those who knew how to use it he made beautiful maps) and it was from 2000;
It would take some incentives such as the possibility of creating various furniture items by yourself (I say maybe a paid DLC) that leaves RAW objects without textures and you can apply yours to make your game truly unique, because to make it unique You MUST create things yourself (if you used those of others YOU ARE AN ASSET FLIPPER) Intended as any user eh, I am not accusing anyone mine is like the gospel of the just causes, if you have a door and decide what kind of animation to do as much do you want it to open, which way and how and then stick it on YOUR TEXTURES (take a photo at the door of your house with your cell phone) and it's done you have a personalized thing ...
Some interactive objects, such as a wall that breaks and a few windows, to make it more true (on et in the oasis map there is the tank that breaks the wall when it passes) things that make it unique.
Vr system (I don't care).
One last thing that I hope does not take this turn, is the fact that LEE mentions that GGMAX will run in 64 mode and at least it will take the gtx960 graphics card (the card that fatality I have on at the moment) It is fine if we talk about power of the editor at the time of creation, MUCH less (i.e. it doesn't suit me) if there is no backward compatibility for those who will create the game for the other PCs that are perhaps less performing, I want to give an example I have another PC with Windows Vista and a gtx 660 .. with that I ran resident evil 5 (only very lightly snappy but NEVER AS GAME GURU xD) playing in co-op (I mean that the software houses allow incredible backward compatibility and not only even those who create emulators that must be used if you have the hardware and the original game they have a vast backward compatibility and those who create them these emulators do them for free ... yes there is another type of engineering)
so you can use 64bit and gtx960 but for those who want to use it you have to lower the minimum threshold required to play (already so who knows if in the future someone can successfully sell a GG brand game if then we also limit the users who can play it, sorry the sarcasm was to make you understand, when it takes it takes ...
Let us users decide which graphic level is needed to make it run.
from here to the usual point will there be a new menu or not with the possibility of making it as custom as possible?
So you have more options for graphic inputs? (tell us more)
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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Mar 2020 06:25 Edited at: 16th Mar 2020 06:27
Didn't read it all yet, getting ready for work but one point I'd like to make, please make sure you read all the stuff lees been posting. A lot of what you have asked for is already planned. The graphics shown in the sneak peaks is the same as old gameguru because these are early sneak peaks if featured already worked on, a whole new renderer is being worked on so it will be improved, a while new terrain system is being worked on because on do that will be improved too. It's also being converted to 64bit so there should be a lot of stability issues being improved on too. Lee is looking into using assimp for asset import which means we will not only have much better import capability, we will have more model format options too.

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cybernescence
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Posted: 16th Mar 2020 17:44
Sounds like GG Max is not for you then - I just skimmed the wall of text.

Cheers.

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DVader
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Posted: 16th Mar 2020 20:47
The only new stuff shown with Max is the UI and CC. The rest at the second is all GG. We will have to wait for the rest.
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osiem80
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Posted: 16th Mar 2020 21:03
Support for custom animations like in unity, beside thinks like graphics performance...........
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OldFlak
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Posted: 16th Mar 2020 22:27 Edited at: 16th Mar 2020 22:28
Yeah, like Belidos says - need to read all Lees posts.
Wall of text is pretty hard to read but just a few points I picked out...

Quote: "Change the sky box system"

Yeah spheres Would be good

Quote: "Why don't you tell us what the EBE system will be like? The thing that interests me most? will it be professional?"

Maybe just remove it since Blender can do that - and a whole lot better job to boot

Quote: "gtx960 graphics card"

that will be minimum spec - older hardware will likely run it but not very well - Classic is for older systems

Quote: "Windows Vista"

It may run on it, if it is 64 bit....
but only Win10 supports some of MAX's features so Win10 is a spec requirement

Quote: "will there be a new menu or not with the possibility of making it as custom as possible?"

Watch the sneak peaks already released

Off to work now....

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m2design
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Posted: 16th Mar 2020 23:02
If we ever wake up from the impossible dream, that GG will magically morph into a unity type engine, then we can, with open eyes, evaluate the possible evolution of GGmax. Got to wake up first.
Unity “like” is just not going to happen! The point is, if Unity is so great then use it…
If the question is “would it be possible to implement a Unity type feature” ok, but the key word is “POSSIBLE” Yes or no, no second guessing.
We need to give lee the freedom to illustrate in April/September what he is willing to do for TGC and us.

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Dave_utopias
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Posted: 17th Mar 2020 01:05
ok I just wanted to be constructively critical and give advice.

I know that what I ask at the beginning in some points had been planned but I just wanted to recall these points to have both more information and to give advice. (google translator cheats on me).

I don't use blender I will have to learn it, I was so comfortable with EBE system and it was practical not to change the program and do everything from the editor game guru.

I guess gg will never be like unity, but some things if implemented properly (and I imagine that they can be done) could make the choice of game guru the best even if you do not have the same results as other power engines.

With new menu I don't mean the graphical interface of the menu on the right but with the full game when you have finished creating it, inside the game pause.

I read Lee's posts but I wanted to have more inputs (a little more spoilers on the topics, a little more pepper to make me decide whether or not to take this GGmax and I think many would like to know more in a concrete way and I don't talk about the videos of what it shows but what isn't said)

Having said that I think I'll wait for September and then decide, but keep this topic in mind for the ideas;

please tell me where i haven't been clear and i will try to rewrite it. (also in the first post)
Okay and please can I judge if game guru max is for me or not.
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granada
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Posted: 17th Mar 2020 01:07 Edited at: 17th Mar 2020 01:35
(Edited)

I cant be bothered to get into another endless discussion, but as you say you have the right to your opinion

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Dave_utopias
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Posted: 17th Mar 2020 01:23
I wanted to understand one thing, if it is a useless conversation it is because you expect that the software never has the potential you think and therefore in your opinion it does not go anywhere;
Or is it because you think it's all business and you don't care what people want or think?

if so why are you here? At least I try to stay in order to improve together with the community by sharing ideas constructively.
Otherwise I would watch in silence if I didn't want to be part of the project to improve it, I know that many have criticized the choice to transform GG into a classic and switch to GGmax by paying after many have been supporters on kickstarter or as they say they often spent hundreds on assets because there they believed and now many don't want to get on this car and throw money at Lee.
But this thread is on the main ones, mine wanted to have a different tone, have my say in order to be seen and not write it in the main thread
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3com
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Posted: 17th Mar 2020 06:29
I have never understood why people buy a Ford knowing that this car will never become a Ferrari.
Nor do I understand why the manufacturer is not required to convert the Ford into a Ferrari, with the same features and functions, and also for the same money they have paid.
I do not know if there is a Ford forum dedicated to sharing ideas or request for the manufacturer to convert the Ford into a Ferrari for the price they have paid.
It rains in the wet.
I'm just saying that just because I can't do a thing with GG doesn't necessarily mean it can't be done, it just means I don't know how to do it.

I could sit and complain about the things that GG lacks, but instead I prefer to be constructive and try to develop a conversation system and also a project based system, so that anyone who wants to can use it.

It's not about what GG can do for you, this is about what you can do for GG.
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cybernescence
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Posted: 17th Mar 2020 07:19
Hi - all I meant was that it seems there is a lot of features that you appear to need from GG max that are not expected to be provided (from what I’ve read) so it appears it won’t meet your requirements.

Clearly you have the right to decide And waiting for full release and reviews after that before you decide to purchase or not is likely the right thing to do.

It’s probably a translation thing but the huge amount of text did seem to contain sarcasm and slightly angry criticism that can be perfectly warranted depending on your point of view. There were a lot of ‘I dont care’ and ‘it doesn’t suit me’ type notes.

I think regular readers like yourself can see that Lee is being very careful to try and contain what will be included in GG Max and to try and press the point for more features (to be like unity) is probably largely pointless though of course you can do so if you wish

Pehaps pick the top one or two things you think would be most beneficial to talk about - but I think a lot of what you’re asking for seems to have been discussed already here or in discord and not planned for max.

Cheers.

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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 17th Mar 2020 10:17
Im so far pleased with what Lee is doing, for instance, once again.

64bit, new terrain system, better lighting with dynamic shadows..... and GG models will work in GG max, anything else is going to be very welcome.
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Posted: 17th Mar 2020 17:51
if ggx, in addition to the features already announced, also included a character creator strong enhancement with Assimp full support, it would be perfect
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osiem80
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Posted: 18th Mar 2020 21:01 Edited at: 18th Mar 2020 21:19
Quote: "If the question is “would it be possible to implement a Unity type feature” ok, but the key word is “POSSIBLE” Yes or no, no second guessing"

Thats all iam asking 4, i dont expect a 1:1 unity copy, just a simple custom animation support without scripting or bone renaming, i mean comon, is that too much?Unity have it and its free.Just saying,i would like too see that instead of CC and iam pretty sure iam not the onlyone.New characters, great, but all with the same animations.........


Quote: "The point is, if Unity is so great then use it…"

Fact is that many people actually dropped GG for Unity, atleast 3 talented forum members in the last year.
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cybernescence
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Posted: 18th Mar 2020 23:32
Not sure I understand - you can drop mixamo rigged characters or any characters with custom animations into GG now. Need to update the correct animation ranges in the fpe if using existing character scripts. No need for bone renaming unless you actually want to use the same stock animations and GG can do that for you too.

Cheers.

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osiem80
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Posted: 18th Mar 2020 23:59 Edited at: 19th Mar 2020 00:03
Quote: "Need to update the correct animation ranges in the fpe if using existing character scripts."

Sure?I tried like 10 characters, also from mixamo as far i remember and it doesnt work with the same scripts, thats why i wrote
Quote: "custom animation support without scripting or bone renaming"

Even if it works with mixamo characters(can somebody confirm it?), it doesnt work for 3drt and other characters as u can see in this thread
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/221194
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DVader
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 18:09 Edited at: 19th Mar 2020 19:41
Quote: "I have never understood why people buy a Ford knowing that this car will never become a Ferrari."

@3com. I dunno, I've seen some Fords that could do pretty well against a Ferrari Not stock though, well unless you are talking Ford GT

GG is sort of similar. You will have poor performance if you pay no attention, but can improve it significantly by changing things DB was never super fast, but look at some of the games made with it and you would be amazed. Can't remember the series, but there were a couple of Space shooters that were awesome. What were they called?

Edit
Oh just had this pop up on youtube.

Not sure it's a Ferrari beater, but pretty awesome looking Looks hard to see where your going though.
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cybernescence
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 18:21
@osiem80 - yes I’m sure. Ive lots of characters rigged by mixamo - either the animations have to be single streamed or add them separately like the dragon example in the medieval folder then add the correct fpe references. Also got 3drt characters to work with no issues. I’ll have a look at your thread as a bit off topic here.

Cheers.

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3com
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 20:56
Mine is a Ford fiesta (spanish version) too far from ferrari one. LOL
That's on your pic is quite ready for Need 4 speed game.
I've lost DB times, in fact I've started with Reloaded. Well, and last times of FPSC.

I've had to tweak most of the fuse/ mixamo chars in 3ds Max, before to import them as X file.
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Earthling45
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2020 12:58 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2020 12:58
Does this look good?

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Gtox
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2020 16:03
@Earthling45 - yes
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Earthling45
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2020 16:23
What you see is a custom terrain, ive created an isleland to expand on the map size of GG, but now i have to find a way to either scale the waterplane or if that is not possible, create another waterplane.
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2020 17:00
i will move to ggmax soon if they show driving vehichels without any bug and real time colision in their you tube show...and if they show female ai and complete friend soldier without any bug and enemy drivers too its all i want from ggmax without any bug .....i cant pay for ggmax pro too
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Dave_utopias
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2020 19:17
So first of all I do not pretend that a ford or a fiesta runs like a ferrari, but that at least it has the conditions (as it should be for all cars) that allow it to run, you create a car without tires, without brake fluid, without brake pads or without the necessary and then give me a product where it is intended for use (ABSOLUTELY NOT ACCESSORY); in fact I don't ask that it runs at the speed of a ferrari, but that it absolutely has the shape and functionality that a normal car should have, don't tell me that it should be me that once I bought the manufacturer's car I should start to mess in mechanics to make it a machine and not a piece of scrap metal! (apart from the local laws that I do not allow, but they are separate talks) So suppose I should buy game guru max study 4000 pages (so to speak) of computer languages ​​to do the job for which the developer (s) they have been paid to do it to make it at least usable.

said this game guru can go to 5 fps for the moment but at least have the necessary parts (where I don't have to touch the source code and therefore study to do it) to say we are a complete engine, then we will intervene to improve it, what are you doing a bike without wheels? You can assemble them, but it depends if you have the right size and equipment, knowledge, etc …

so what can I do for game guru? if I don't have the possibility to integrate because I would go on the way of the software developer, it is as if I bought the clay and I pretended to make a vase.

I just wanted to be a constructive critic and sarcasm is a direct, fast means and it is also said by those who use it ironically, therefore for "nothing bad"

and speaking of ideas, Osiem80 he's right it would be interesting if the program per se read the entities and created the fpe files with all the appropriate animations (speaking of character entities) so we can only edit in the .fpe text format by deleting those that do not interested, without going to see them with lua script (I don't know if I explained myself well) (then let me know if you are already doing it).
without us having to manually update the animations on the .fpe
I give an example, I insert a character model for free or bought on a site where you use extension formats such as .max or .obj, .blend and the one down inserted the .fbx .. make sure that the program automatically creates from reading the entity a file. fpe with all the animations, (thus reducing the time for each artist, creator, which seems to me to be the goal of this program, making it all at the mercy of all).
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DVader
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2020 00:15
Quote: "what are you doing a bike without wheels?"

So that's why I never get anywhere!

Seriously though the above comments are all made in jest. As we all know GG has had speed issues over the years It's actually pretty good now in that regard or at least way more usable.

Character import could be a lot better. It's on many peoples list as wanted improvements. We long timers (sounds like were in prison lol) all know that we have been asking for more options since 2013 or so That's one reason we have the current CC system and fbx was implemented.

As far as I know though, even Unreal and Unity don't import .max or .blend files directly. Those are pretty specific to their individual 3d packages. That would make things way simpler for us, anyway
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Belidos
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2020 09:07 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2020 09:08
Quote: "As far as I know though, even Unreal and Unity don't import .max or .blend files directly"


Actually Unity does, at least with .blend files.

You can drag a .blend file into your project and use the models from it.

It does it by scripting trickery though

It does it by using python scripts to very rapidly load blender, open the .blend file, select the objects and export them to the project file, it does it so quickly you don't even notice that it's done it lol.

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DVader
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2020 12:22
Ooh that's a plus for Unity then
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Dave_utopias
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 03:19
however I suppose there will be ebe support on max and it makes me understand the github site in our support section where when asked if it was possible to have better functionality for ebe and this improvement was accepted to be submitted by adding the word "Enhancement", with the vortex system it will be great then we could do infinite things and what if not make it appetizing at the marketing level if not to create a product like game guru max able to do things instead of a thousand other programs ? (it will not be the epicenter or the direction that you want to take or that the developer wants to take, but let's be clear let's see that the intent is otherwise why fulfill the desire of some sporadic or perhaps regular average user ??? We want to give them a candy to that user to make him feel good or is it a company (although I would not define it as such because it is composed of very few members) that cares about its consumers? (We are the decision and purchasing power, a little as Ghandi does, but let's not go into diatries from which we cannot save ourselves, I stop here.)


imagine you can then really The CC (character creator) from his lap of the classic and then you want to have the backwards compatibility (which is a point clearly ensured by Bamber) in Max (therefore having a p created in the classic and usable in the max) you must first correct the shortcoming of the CC in the classic if we don't want to bring with us characters created with the one with the broken neck (disunited from the back of the chest) because a rookie user would not want to have defects that carry on (and I know that March had to be the month of the bugfix .. .)


and then imagine a product that has integrated popups at the beginning that guide you in creating the level, such as a magic wizard as they were integrated in the various programs in windows xp, which guided you in choosing where to set up, what to add etc;

It might be a good idea to ask at the beginning how big you want the pitch to play, do you want the pitch yes or no? (the dialog opens) how high do you want it to be ?, etc type that will create the text file immediately, more practical, keeping in mind that there will be no changes to be applied to the global.lua file of the player that mentions the boundaries of the playing field of the map (where modified these parameters can greatly widen the experience).

And by the way is there the possible as well as ironing the objects for long and short with the x y z axes maybe even in case of some curvature? in the sense I with the mouse pointer select a central segment of the entity and then I curve it (make a kind of belly) (I have seen simple programs do it)

And last but not least, make the ground expandable even after a while like stretching objects, for developers this should be as easy as taking away the candy from a child.


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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 03:45
Omg, did u just type all that on an online translator in a foreign language and press translate then copy and paste ha ...
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synchromesh
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 10:58
Ye sorry I can hardly make any sense of any of it ..
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 11:08
Obviously never actually tried taking anything from a child ….
Been there, done that, got all the T-Shirts!
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Petr Surtr
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Joined: 9th Jan 2020
Location: Italy
Posted: 26th Mar 2020 12:01
Hi, posted in the vr section but I doubt someone reads there... so sorry if can be somewhat off topic, even if in some way it can be related to GGX features improvements: it is not clear to me if the windows mixed reality support will allow only to play created games in vr or if it will allow to develop games for vr windows mixed reality headsets (with the exception of the menus that still will remain 2d). I mean, will be possible to build own games in a win32 exe?
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Petr Surtr
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 13:15
To be more precise: will GGX support OpenXR standard so that it is possible to develop with it a vr games with an exe build that runs on windows mixed reality headset (via steamvr or not)?
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 15:07 Edited at: 26th Mar 2020 15:29
... let alone candy!

Okay, I will try to validate a response.
Most of those requests are "high hat", maybe akin to the workings
of Wonka's Chocolate Factory. But let's not deny creativity!
From bottom to top; ((What does the top say?))

Make the ground stretchable... (this would be voxels as far as I can imagine)
Discussed, and would be super-- but I don't think September? fingers crossed!

Curve an entity in the editor... Blender is not incorporated into GG, and I think
even Wonka would be proud of this achievement.

Menus /properties for sounds and such... Nice idea. I would also really like to
have further access to sounds, huds and so forth in a menu system. Individual
gravity settings, and many other nuances that can be unclear as to where to
find in the files...

Pop up tutorials... If anything, perhaps a menu could also be accessible where
the YouTube videos pertaining to that topic are linked... ?? (And for a bonus, in
the videos, TGC could place the animated CC wizard!!) Haha!

Backwards compatible CC's...? I think Lee said not to expect this. Sounds logical.

Lastly, create EBE's to Save Ourselves From Gandhi? Nice game idea-- maybe.
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Mortt
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Posted: 1st Apr 2020 13:37
GGMAX is kinda exciting and looking to getting it when out.
The improvements in GGMAX v GG is BIG. and is worth getting. I also think that the text handling is improved as well, which would be awesome to have a list as apposed to a line of text. Text formatting would be awesome.
It would also be nice if GG had imojies, like at the top of this post box. Cool for adding in games.
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