Hi Guru's

Sitting, reading through the thread I was wondering.....

We have so many talented and expert/professional guys in the forum.

What about a HUGE forum Game Guru Project(Game), that we can sell on Steam and use that money generated to pay freelancers etc to help with Game Guru performance Fixes, graphics PBR fixes etc...

It might take a Month or 2, but give it a go.
We can discuss a story line, and appoint some pro's for level design and scripting etc...
Everybody will benefit from it, if we can get more regular updates of GG.

Me, Myself and I, are way to new for any real help, but can always beta testing. I have access to various type of latptops and PC's

Example : Use only standard assets that's been distibuted with GameGuru. WE can ask the guys for some really cool lua scripts, that can be added at the end to GameGuru Installation, OR
can design a "special-never been seen" range of assets. that can then be sold on TGC... many opportunities available.. me think????

This way we can "boost" GameGuru for Sales, Help TGC with developement, and who know... maybe they can pocket a few bucks for future development.

Just a 2 cent suggestion....

I think that's really a great idea and it would be interesting to see the result, even though 1-2 month are a little bit too optimistic.
Also I would definitely support it at least with testing, buying the product and everything else a newbie is good for.

I would love to see the result. There are so many very talented people here. For example. imagine Smallg on Lua, Teabone making models... etc. Shame Rolfy seems to have disappeared - he could be on skyboxes and terrain.

A month or 2... Most games take at least a year to get to any sort of finished state.
I thought we were just going to steal the money cyber makes from his steam punk game?? Or was that a secret? Oops...
Due to the nature of indie Devs it's unlikely a real team can be formed but as already said, the forums are a great place to get help and support so perhaps someone just needs to take the first step and start a project then post it here and let others jump in with any help they can?

As far as I understood, it's against the rules to officially search for a team here.
Maybe without this rule, someone would have already started something like this.
What's the reason for that rule anyway? Wouldn't GameGuru benefit from greater projects? It's just much easier to start a post rather than writing messages to random people and ask if they want to join your project.

Ref … AUP Guidlines

Seems like an odd rule but OK.

Working on tean can bring differences of opinion, problems, complaints, etc. and TGC does not want to have to deal with that, in the forum. imho.

Pretty much your right ..
Its been done before in classic and caused nothing but arguments and issues.
Nothing stopping you doing it via PM though.

@synchromesh thanks for clarification..
See no point in discussing this any futher then, right....

==>> **I'm not discussing teams anymore.** <<==

But the idea of a community created game is pretty good. What I see is that
there are a lot of ((not only model assets)) , but also supplied maps that come
with GameGuru. If it where allowed by the Top Ranks to use them to put
together a major game demo, spicing it up with all the good spices GG has
like particles, sprites, decals, HUDS, sounds, the best lighting, indoor and outdoor
scenes, maybe even an inventory, and interactive people, things etc --

Then the time would be cut way down. One person take on one map (level)
and keep it SMALL- woops I mean small- and fast.
They are in charge of that one level and anybody in the community could
(if willing) donate some model or asset. Just coordinate the agreement from
all involved. Again... Keep It Simple. Don't get too serious! Mostly have a high
visuals game. Have fun and see how it goes.

Let's say you got 50 days from the project start date for your level to be submitted...
and like I said, these could be pulled from the stock maps (bosses willing.)

Very few of these projects take of or get finished, timezones disagreements and a lot of other thing .people just leaving getting board ect, but if you could get one to work it would be great

Dave

Community projects struggle to get finished because people's enthusiasm and available time fluctuates massively from person to person. You end up waiting on someone to do something because they promised they would, then they get bored or move onto something else, then eventually you get bored and move on too. They almost always stall.

The bigger issue is how do you create a community project that doesn't feel like it was assembled by an assorted group of developers all with different artistic sensibilities? I believe you'd have to have one person act as a director that can oversee the whole project and steer it. But since everyone involved will want to feel like they own a bit of it, they'll end up seeing the director as egotistical when really the director is just trying to realise their vision for the project. And no one is being paid anything so there's no obligation for them to follow the director's advice or deliver anything on time or even at all.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just...really...REALLY hard.

AE

What AE said, just like to add that every time I've got involved with 'team' efforts it always seemed like everyone expected to be the 'director' and no-one expected to do any actual work!

You would honestly be better off each creating a level of your own choice, style and theme and submitting it.
Then compile all the creations into a standalone Community launcher with a menu selection.
The only problem then would be deciding which are good enough to qualify being included in the Community Launcher.
This at least would avoid team arguments

Oh no it wouldn't !!
Oh yes it would !!
J/K

A competition, and that game that wins, goes straight to steam.

@3Com

Fuberpk tried some competitions in Appgamekit forum, and not really any interest

What if the admins just say a deadline and everyone who wants to create a level, sends it to the admins when finished?
Then the GameGuru team can decide or they start a poll where users can vote for a level? Something like that...
Maybe they should set up some rules about what the levels should contain etc.

I used to take part in level design competitions back in the FPS Creator days, and made some of my best work during them. But they're just one level so not really suitable for selling on Steam like OP suggests (although maybe they could be used as a downloadable demo on the main website?)

AE

That was my line of thinking ..
Or perhaps submit a level from your current projects that will be on steam to help advertise them.

@DannyD
I think it should be done differently.

Finding a dedicated team on forums is always difficult because for one, everybody is working on their own projects, own ideas and they want to be in charge. I tried it with different engines on other forums and always failed because people on the forum can not be trusted to stay long and contribute. You can not build a team from forum members. Especially not if the project is a commercial project to be sold on Steam for example. This is my experience.

What could be done however is you, come up with an idea and get it started and share it on GitHub as free and open-source project that is open to contribution and I would personally go with MIT license so it would be completely free to use for anyone for any purposes even as a template to build on top.

Then, you could create a roadmap on Trello where you list the ideas you have to implement in to the game. So anyone interested to contribute could go, pick something from Trello and get it done and contribute on GitHub.

I think the project should use stock assets only so the project size hosted on GitHub can be minimum, would not including the assets but the project only. So, if somebody would like to look in to or use the source, they need to buy GameGuru and the DLC's it might be using.
This way, the project could contribute toward GameGuru directly because the project require GameGuru and certain DLC'S.
If an artist happen to contribute with some assets, fine, it would be included maybe under a different license but I would share the core project under MIT and stock assets would be available in GG anyway under their own license.

Then, you could publish the game on Itch.io as a free game and maybe even the source and accept donations and it would be up to you if you donate toward GameGuru or not. Since it would be your project and you would be the one who maintain it on GitHub, you deserve any money you may get from donations and of course you could donate toward GG but a promise to do so should be enough.

This way there would be no such questions like who is in charge, who own the project, who getting the money, "do we get any money??", what direction the project should go and that sort of things.
It would be your project, maintained and hosted by you, and you are in charge and the project with stock assets would be free to use by anyone and the game it self would be also available for free to play.

So you would be using
GitHub for sharing the source under MIT and receive contribution, discuss development, bugs..etc Assets would be available in GG or under different license in case someone did contribute wit something.
Itch.io to share the game and also the source for free and to accept donations, may even host a forum there for communication with the playerbase.
Trello for roadmap, people can comment and vote on features and contributors can go and take on any work.

This is how I would be doing.

Of course sharing the source under MIT may sounds crazy and sharing the game for free maybe makes no sense for some, how do you make money and how does it help GG you may ask.
You won't make tons of money for sure. But if you do it for fun and to contribute back to GG, does it matter how much money you make?
Think about it this way, if you share the source under MIT and the source would be using stock assets, other GG users can use it as a base, as a template and it may be worth money for them to donate or they might decide they contribute with a feature they added to their own game or assets they made to use in their own game. Not everyone going to donate and contribute for sure, but even if just 10% of who build on top of the source, do contribute back either with donation or work, already worth it if you do it for fun. And as I mentioned, because you would be using stock and DLC assets, people do need to buy GG and the DLC's to use the source so that's would be a direct contribution to GG already and donation would be up to you.
And because you share the game for free, players who not interested in development can still consider donation if they like the game, sure 99% would not donate, but does it matter if you do it for fun how much money you make? And because you share the game for free, you also eliminate things like, people steal the source and sell it, makes no sense because the game is already free and there would be no question among contributors "do I get money??". Then you might ask what the contributors get. The full source under MIT should be enough for any contributor in return for the contribution they make.

I would say don't give up just yet and go and get started instead.

Regarding what sort of game to make. I would personally go with an open world game where you travel between different worlds similar to Stargate or Sliders the TV shows, so there would be plenty of space for any ideas. Zombie shooter, first person platformer, puzzle, modern, medieval, fantasy..etc Each world can be very different from each other which would also allow you to use all DLC's and stock assets in the project and the story can be also open, each world might be a small, independent story so there would be plenty of space for any ideas and contributions.

If not you, or someone from the community, I would also recommend the same to TGC to create and host such free and open project but for them they also need to consider the time they put in because they can't afford to do it for fun. There always be money question, so I hope someone from the community might pick this up for fun.

Good luck.

oh god , not another collaboration post, please don't ha

BOTR! Well, at least it would give people something to do,
while waiting for something new to come along!

Zigi; this sounds pretty interesting but it sounds like a very long process, and
I think what we would need is a real deadline for the project, and I would make
it pretty short.
FREE? Well I can't figure that one out. The idea is a fundraiser. Maybe sell it on
TGCstore.net and the community market the link to all friends?

Great idea on type of game, (portals to new worlds) that's what I had in mind
because everyone would have a different flair of style and idea.

Well, the process I described is the same even if you start a team with a deadline but the problem with having a deadline is that you won't find anyone on the forum who is going to dedicate his or her time to the project and meet deadlines.
Why would anyone care to join a team of strangers and dedicate his or her time to a project that means nothing to him or her and meet deadlines? And who would be in charge? It would feel awkward if you need to answer to a stranger what did you do on the weekend and why can't you meet a deadline especially if you don't get paid for the work you do. And if there would be nobody in charge and you don't need to answer to anyone, we are all friends here then what is the point of the deadline? This is not how work is done and you can't expect someone to be dedicated for no reason.


To put it simple, if the project going to be a commercial one my first question would be who is in charge and who own the rights to the game, who is getting the money, how much money I get and what is guarantee that the person in charge is not going to walk away? What would guarantee that the lead level designer or programmer is not going to walk away? What makes you think that I would not share the game for free if we have an argument and ruin the whole commercial project idea? Would you want me to sign some form of contract or you would not give me access to the entire project but only that bit I need to work on? Would you trust me, can I trust you? Of course not.
A commercial project just makes no sense when we are talking about a project developed by a community.

As I mentioned you can not build a dedicated team from forum members to work on a commercial project for free. It is not going to happen.

Haha! Yes.



I've used to give long replies to these in the past but I keep it brief this time as I feel everything has been said already.

Community projects fail. Not all of them, if there is one thing this community always did well, it where collaboration model packs. But Games? Impossible. I've been making games as a hobby for a long time and saw a ton of these threads getting started and so far either nothing ever came of it, or the "community project" ended up being 3 guys with mediocre skills that actually happened to work on something 20 people signed up for.

A forum community is not a studio with a clear hierarchy, vision and people with consistent talents. The pool of skill and experience is too wide here for people to be able to work together and make a decent final product on here IF someone would actually manage to organize it in a way that everyone actually meets the deadlines. And as Zigi pointed out, the motivation for people to adhere to a deadline in their spare time can only be slim at best.

The reality would also be, and this happened in actual private teams I was working in, that from say 10 people, 4 would be skilled and 6 wouldn't be. You'd have the "creative director" who keeps the whole thing coherent, a 3d artist, a scripter and a level designer. Okay great. But now you also have 6 more people that contribute things that need to be heavily edited or remade from scratch because they are simply horrendous... especially if the goal was for the final product to be decent. This is increasingly frustrating for the more talented team members as it will end up feeling more like teaching a class than working together on a product.



-Wolf