Product Chat / November Update

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PCS
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 18:47 Edited at: 26th Nov 2018 18:49
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Hi all, i have tested one on my maps with the November update and i just want to know if any one also have the same texture problem i have on the Van and car in this picture,? it looks like a lot of the silver / metal texture's have this green kinda color.




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GraPhiX
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 18:59
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hi PCS yeah that is the skybox reflecting, try changing you sky it will change the colours, you could try turning the specular down on each entity in ptoperties panel too
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 19:00 Edited at: 26th Nov 2018 19:02
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That's reflection off of the terrain, if you don't give your pbr models a _cube map gameguru uses one auto generated off of the terrain and sky. To fiX it just add your own _cube map to the model.

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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 19:03 Edited at: 26th Nov 2018 19:04
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It's currently pulling through the default skybox, but you can 'reset' that in test game. Go into Test Game, hit Tab, change your skybox to something else, then change it back to what it was originally on. Should fix the problem.

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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 19:37 Edited at: 26th Nov 2018 19:44
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hi all. i have tested one of my big maps, my town map. and look at the two pictures

and saw that it i press F11 and then if i press and hold key 1 then i get this picture


why is this?
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 19:43
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Avenging Eagle, i will try what you said,
i can not change the specular down on each entity in all my maps, i have thousands of them. lol and i dont know how to make a cube map also.
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 20:21 Edited at: 26th Nov 2018 20:21
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This never use to be like this, why now ? , now that we have an update, an update that is supposed to make a lot of thighs better?
i have tried what Avenging Eagle has said, but it does not fix it. the only way i can get the green color away is to change the terrain type to ice then the refection is better, see pic below


in this map i can do it because i don't use my terrain, but what about other maps were i do use my terrain, what then?
it feels like the more we try to improve GG the more we take one step backwards, before this upgrade i did not had this problem.!

the ONLY thing so far that is amazing is the fact that i can now open and run my big maps like this town map because the fps is much better than before, for that i say thanks to everyone who has made that possible.

i am to scared to test any other maps , because of what else i might found wrong.

for me this update was not worth waiting for, if i have to change all my settings , and make cube maps for all my entities, witch i did not need to do in the past, why ? Is it not that the general idea of an upgrade is to better and improve the normal things that was already working and in place?


Sorry for complaining but im so down right now, I don't even feel like going on with any map building or projects now.

thanks again Lee and everyone for your hard work. hope not a lot of other users have also big problems.

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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 21:01
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Quote: "if you don't give your pbr models a _cube map gameguru uses one auto generated off of the terrain and sky. "


1. Can we switch it of. ?
2. is there not someone here clever enough to make a default cube map to make it as if it is not reflecting anything for all entities , or a way to adjust the amount it must reflect for the default cube map on all entities. ?

The reason why i am complaining is that some entities has cube maps that should not have them, for i.e

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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 21:04 Edited at: 26th Nov 2018 21:08
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Pbr has ALWAYS been like that, it's nothing to do with the update.

It's not a bug. It's a feature, without a custom cube map you get an auto generated cube reflection from the terrain and sky box. It needed to be that way because without a cube reflection of some sort you wouldn't see if something was reflective.

If you don't want that then add a _cube texture to the models that are reflective. There are about three or four posts on here somewhere explaining how to do it, a couple have step by step videos.

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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 21:14
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i have have a of a LOT of entities in all my maps, i don't have the time or energy to go and learn how to make an cube map and then have to go and apply them to each and every entity that is not reflecting correctly in all my maps.
That is why i want to know if we can disable it completely or if there is an clever programmer to make an default one like i ask in the above thread.
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 21:21 Edited at: 27th Nov 2018 08:47
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You cant make a default _cube map because every cube map depends on the scene it's in, that's why you have to supply your own.

You cant turn it off as far as I know, and if you did the models would look a lot worse anyway because that nice reflective metal in reality without the cube map is just a flat plain grey colour. It's the reflective mapping that makes it look metalic.

You could make a pure grey texture for each entity and name it with _cube at the end, that would stop the terrain reflection, but again you would lise the metallic look, and agin you would have to do it for each entity you use.

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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 21:43
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Ok then i pack up.

Bye
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 22:06
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Sorry PCS, I was wrong, I thought that would fix it. The reason some of your entities have reflections when they shouldn't is because Game Guru thinks they are more metallic than they actually are. This is because they are old models with the _D _N _S method of texturing, not PBR. To correct for this, either create PBR textures for these entities ( the _metalness map will control reflectivity, _gloss will control roughness), or change the shader in the entity's fpe.

If you've got loads of entities which are old pre-PBR models, then I recommend you turn off PBR altogether by going into the setup.ini and changing pbroverride to 1.

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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 22:14
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How can i change texture from any model into PBR ?
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 22:29 Edited at: 26th Nov 2018 22:36
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@PCS I can create a default grey scale cube map for you all you would need to do is drop it in each entity folder and rename it to the entity naming convention.

You could also use my cubemap generator and get a cube map of your actual scene which would make it more realistic https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219897#msg2605256

@Tomik18, some you can just rename and they will work i.e change _D to _color _N to _normal then you would need to create a metalness texture copy your _D name it _metalness convert it to black and white image make everything that is not metal to black any metal should be white, you also need to create a gray scale image of you _D and call it _gloss it needs to be inverted any white is rough and gray - black is smooth this is very rough and ready there are lots of tutorials and info in the media thread.
the steps I have outlined like I said is not ideal but it will work.

in the FPE change entity_basic.fx to apbr_basic.fx
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Posted: 26th Nov 2018 23:41
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@GraPhiX, thank you . that would be kind of you , if you make me a default grey scale cube map.
i will need to read up on this cube map thing. i don't know anything about it.
@Avenging Eagle no prop don't worry.
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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 00:15
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Cubemaps are a cheap and dirty way to do reflections, but the only solution we have right now. But I think the bigger question here is when is Game Guru going to get a lightmapper that can generate dynamic cubemaps on a per entity basis? Is that even a thing? How do other games as far back as the Quake 3 engine have flawless, dynamic reflections and we still don't?

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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 02:57
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We have them on the water.
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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 04:02 Edited at: 27th Nov 2018 04:10
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Quote: "Cubemaps are a cheap and dirty way to do reflections, but the only solution we have right now. But I think the bigger question here is when is Game Guru going to get a lightmapper that can generate dynamic cubemaps on a per entity basis? Is that even a thing? How do other games as far back as the Quake 3 engine have flawless, dynamic reflections and we still don't? "
You require reflection probes and I seem to remember Lee saying these would be added, pretty pointless having PBR features and they aren't already in there. The bigger question really is why are they leaving users to fumble around creating cubemaps manually which doesn't make a lot of sense when different areas will require a different bake..you will also find that it's not one size fits all per entity with these either in different areas never mind different levels. They aren't something you attach to an entity same way as texture references they should be generated and applied on a local basis.
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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 09:27
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Quote: "You require reflection probes and I seem to remember Lee saying these would be added, pretty pointless having PBR features and they aren't already in there. The bigger question really is why are they leaving users to fumble around creating cubemaps manually which doesn't make a lot of sense when different areas will require a different bake..you will also find that it's not one size fits all per entity with these either in different areas never mind different levels. They aren't something you attach to an entity same way as texture references they should be generated and applied on a local basis."


Yes you are right they should be done on a local basis, as I mentioned to PCS if he takes some in game shots with his huds hidden he can localise his cubemaps, all I am doing is giving him a quick fix by using a grayscale cube that will be generic and not look too much out of place.

@PCS I have attached the cube to this post, all you need to do is copy it into each entity folder that is giving you the terrain reflection and rename it to follow the texture naming, in this case I named it to van.cube.dds, check the FPE if the model is calling an .X file delete the .dbo in the entity folder, if it is using a .dbo for the asset do not delete it you will lose the model.


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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 12:33
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Yup, as i said, he could use a grey _cube map, but it would need one per entity and you lose most of the reflectiveness, and as he said he didn't want to do it for every entity on his map, i didn't offer to do one for him.

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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 12:45
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TBH I always create a project folder when I am building a map using stock assets (learned the hard way) and copy the entities I want into the project folder under a sub folder with a category name, i.e 'Buildings' 'Scenery' etc then I can edit textures add texture maps at my own leisure without fear of the asset being over written with an update, it also makes it easier to know what I have used without having to search the whole files folder, I also save my fpm in this folder and ZIP it up on a daily basis then copy it to external storage.

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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 13:36
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I haven't tried GG since it was updated yet. This thread has put me off looking lol. I did notice some reflections in the PP version but didn't have any issues as above.
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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 15:55
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@dvader nothimg has changed with this in this update, its just pcs hasnt noticed it since pbr was introduced, its the same issue you pointed out on the windows on my victorian houses, remember? I made you a custom cube map for it months ago.

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Posted: 27th Nov 2018 17:23 Edited at: 27th Nov 2018 17:26
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@GraPhiX, thanks a lot my friend. i appreciate it. will use it were i can not change the terrain texture.
@Belidos, i did noticed it before , but it was not on such a big scale as it is now.
@Lee
Quote: "You require reflection probes and I seem to remember Lee saying these would be added"
any change off this still coming to GG.
@DVader sorry if this thread have given you the the wrong impression, this is actually more a cry for help than anything else.
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Posted: 28th Nov 2018 21:44
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@ PCS I was being tongue in cheek, hence the lol part. I have tried it since and seem to have no difference to before, as Belidos mentioned. In case your from part of the world that saying tongue in cheek is merely a statement of fact, it means, at least over here, that I meant it in fun At the same time though, I was mildly concerned for my newly resurrected project ;p
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Posted: 28th Nov 2018 22:03
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@DVader,, I hope that all will go well with your newly resurrected project.

Ps (i was reading so fast i was actually missing the lol part in your post. lol )
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Posted: 29th Nov 2018 01:13
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Easy to miss, I missed a comma

I have noticed a slight fps drop this update so far, I'm definitely getting lower fps since it was updated. I have noticed this more so, as I was looking at speed problems at the time. I got some fps back, then after the update I lost more than I gained
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Posted: 29th Nov 2018 03:30
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For me , i must say i gained fps , i noticed it especially on my bigger maps.
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Posted: 29th Nov 2018 18:37
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Were you using the public preview previously though? I've been using that for awhile now. I don't think it has lost a lot of speed, but even a small drop when your on the edge of slowdown is enough to notice. I have a lot of scripts in my game as well, the map is fairly small really. I've made far bigger maps, but never with so many scripts running.
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Posted: 30th Nov 2018 17:10
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@DVader, no i am on the normal update November and before that i was on the monster update.
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Posted: 30th Nov 2018 22:43
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now we need to put a cube map in every folder , lololo that is not the right way to make and engine
somehow the material index is relationated with albedo and secular lighting in the engine,
as i said before i find out that changing the material index to wood resolves the problema, again the engine should handle this with no cube maps only a menu more advanced that we can change / select the kind of albedo we want in the assets

and pardon me if i am wrong and ofend anyone , but sometimes it seems that the team do not see other engines, and the pipeline they use in some subjects

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Posted: 30th Nov 2018 22:55
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@maiacoimbra69, ok will test this and see what happens. do i need to change the material back a gain after that or do i need to leave it ?
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Posted: 30th Nov 2018 23:15
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About Color
I noticed that the sliders that control the color environment and the surface color that seems to me to be the color of reflection or albedo od the elements in GG, are combined somehow and pixel brightness is attach to the color slider.
this is not a proper HSL or HSV representation / control of the RGB color model, the values should be independent each other , using an NCS system instead.

As it is now all colors dark and it is not possible to make a coloring system such as Teal and orange, well at least try
it seems to me that the calculation used in the color parable is currently linear ie 2D and has to be passed to the 3d model,
of color calcularion where the values ​​of chroma and hue are indepent or then perpendicular.

just a thought




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maiacoimbra69
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Posted: 30th Nov 2018 23:16
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it was a way that i found out to work but not the correct one i am sure
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Posted: 30th Nov 2018 23:21
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Maia looking at your picture its doing exactly what its supposed to do, alll 3 sliders at max = white alll sliders halfway = mid grey and alll sliders at zero = black.

Working exactly right. Im not seeing where you have an issue?


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Posted: 30th Nov 2018 23:37 Edited at: 30th Nov 2018 23:41
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Calm down, maybe it's me that's am too itchy about color control, too much photoshop over the years , do not worry my friend no big deal


i will try make an teal and orange effect or else and if i succeed i will put here the settings

Do not worry about my stresses. they are just out of breath thoughts
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Posted: 30th Nov 2018 23:40
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I'm not against the system I just try to help, sometimes I do not express it very well and besides I'm Portuguese, we're too hot,
damned hot blood we have, again do not get me wrong, just trying to putt some ideias in the boiler as we say here
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Posted: 1st Dec 2018 09:50
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Quote: "Calm down "


Im not even calmed up :p

Just asking what is wrong with the surface level sliders

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maiacoimbra69
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Posted: 1st Dec 2018 15:10
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nothing is wrong man i just like to have some other way of adjust them for instance the brith of the color independent of their hue value

but never mind it works and that's what matters
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maiacoimbra69
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Posted: 1st Dec 2018 15:12 Edited at: 1st Dec 2018 15:19
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i have a question i found this strange position in zombies when they are waiting for me ( out off range) in the executable
is this a bug ? or something else


And is random because it does not specify either the zombie genre or its geographic situation and the same zombie may be like this or not

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 1st Dec 2018 18:19
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it goes away if the zombie is set to always active?
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synchromesh
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Posted: 1st Dec 2018 18:59 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2018 01:19
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Don't think its been reported on GitHub yet though so I will do that …
Although all these things on other characters, Drones etc are probably AI conflicts as Lee is mainly working on the soldiers ..
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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maiacoimbra69
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2018 17:35
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ok thanks, but again no big deal for me because zombies are dumb , hehe
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