Product Chat / Latest Model Pack Update

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 17th Oct 2018 12:20
I have just setup a new Computer for myself and downloaded GG and all my Assets, the buildings pack update does not look right some buildings don't have smoothing groups I am not the best 3d artist here but this pack is embarrassing does anyone check them before release? sorry to speak out but I think someone has to
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granada
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Posted: 17th Oct 2018 12:47
yes it needs some work

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 18th Oct 2018 00:51
@GraPhiX : Do you have a specific example of a building without smoothing group (i.e correct normal vectors), and what you would do to correct it?
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 18th Oct 2018 08:58 Edited at: 18th Oct 2018 09:01
@Lee like I said I am not the best artist but 5 mins on this building makes it look so much better





just a couple of things some of the UV's are stacked they will not lightmap correctly, some are missing smoothing groups or have wrong vertices welded together and the normals are way over the top, AO does not work correctly when you stack UV's
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 18th Oct 2018 10:03
@GraPhiX : I wonder if you would like a small commission to update all the buildings in the buildings pack along the lines you have described. I agree your building tweak is MUCH nicer. As usual, you can contact me at lee@thegamecreators.com and we can hopefully come to an accommodation
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Posted: 18th Oct 2018 11:21
I’m using the buildings at the moment for my game...
Not checked the buildings since the update, but if they really look so ugly now like on the screenshots I will kick them out of the game.... before they looked better... and with the extra work from graphix they look good again...
Nobody checks the things before release?
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 18th Oct 2018 11:47
Hi Lee, I did not mean to undermine or offend anyone, I personally think they could be better

I have almost finished the particle work/demo as soon as I am done I will have a look at them
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Earthling45
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Posted: 18th Oct 2018 15:39
There has been a lot of effort in these buildings but in pbr they look awful.
Last night i partly redone the uvs of house 3 and it looks so much better but obviously the texture needs a bit of work.

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Teabone
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Posted: 18th Oct 2018 18:24 Edited at: 18th Oct 2018 18:24
They looked quite strange to me, in the promotional screenshot.

By "smoothing groups" are you guys referring to the meshes?
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Posted: 18th Oct 2018 20:22
Quote: "By "smoothing groups" are you guys referring to the meshes?"
There is a difference between smooth groups and weighted vertex normal. Smoothing groups defines whether an object is rendered with sharp or smooth edges, weighted vertex normals are for calculating surface direction.

What was done here was fixing the surface normals, not group smoothing there is a difference, while you can use both at the same time, they do different things, essentially group smoothing is bad and surface normals are good, with surface normals you also have far more control in general as you can adjust individual triangles to your needs, with some tweaking you can change surface normals any angle.

Second picture shows how you can edit specific vertices with a different surface direction.Quite simple group smoothing either flatten or smooths edges, surface normals smooth object globally or allow individual vertices to be edited, quite usefully for editing a surface direction on a face for example. That is at least how I remember it working.

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MooKai
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Posted: 19th Oct 2018 11:27
Is there no basic QA before releasing new updates?
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Lafette II
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Posted: 19th Oct 2018 15:28
At first glance, it looks like too strong a normal-map and a high-contrast AO. I do not have the pack, so I can not say anything specific. Maybe it is enough to reduce the contrast from the AO. It also looks like the windows were included in the normalmap.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2018 17:20
It's my Birthday today so I had a bit of time, going out in a min

The Update to the building pack DLC was not quite right so I have fixed all the new PBR to what they should be (to the best of my abilities lol)
this update has been sent to Lee so hopefully you will get it soon
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lotgd
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2018 17:29 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2018 18:10
Great work GraPhiX ! and Happy birthday

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Posted: 23rd Oct 2018 17:46
Looks great! Happy birthday and have fun!
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2018 18:06
Happy birthday grandad ,have a good night

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Earthling45
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2018 18:31
Happy birthday GraPhiX, they look fantastic.
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Posted: 24th Oct 2018 16:23
So much better … Happy Birthday !!
Worth considering you doing the conversions in the first place to be honest
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MooKai
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Posted: 1st Nov 2018 07:50
So hopefully we will see your work in one of the next updates for the buildings.
Great work, thanks.
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Earthling45
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Posted: 6th Nov 2018 20:46
Let's continue with the latest release, megapack 2 pbr.
I really wonder if TGC is at all serious about its products and how it is presented, if you ask me, the answer is no.

Harsh critique, yes, but look at it, besides the rediculous normal maps we now also get 512x512 textures instead of 2048x2048, so now we can count the pixels.
For the gates, the collisionbox is set to 0 instead of 1 in the FPE, is this done for fun to see if there is any reaction from the community?
But people will buy this pack and be confronted with this, it is this sloppiness that breads bad reviews.

If you want positive reviews, get serious!
GraPhiX
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Posted: 6th Nov 2018 21:20
I am speechless

PLEASE PLEASE stop releasing these DLC PBR updates, I don't know whom is doing them but this is really letting GG down now, I am still fixing the buildings update, and another poor update is released, please take this back and at least release the pack I sent you, I will look and see if I can recover any of these but having 512 textures is going to make it difficult
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synchromesh
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Posted: 7th Nov 2018 01:49 Edited at: 7th Nov 2018 01:49
I have to concure.
Commision GraPhix to do them.
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Ertlov
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Posted: 7th Nov 2018 04:59
Caprica seconds that opinion.
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Posted: 7th Nov 2018 07:22
Quote: "I really wonder if TGC is at all serious about its products and how it is presented, if you ask me, the answer is no."


It's the classic TGC business model; release a MVP (minimum viable product), let the community fix it.

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Posted: 7th Nov 2018 13:59
An MVP product which happens to have a unique community behind it who love the challenge of dealing with the limitations.

I'm no coder but if i was i would be one of them, i can however shed my light on the entities, something which i am doing at this moment.
It is quite a question to me why the old maps should be used, they are after all not a good base to get a decent result in PBR.
Some are a decent base, for example the ammobox which has a good texture, but buildings require another approach in my view.
Either leave them as they are or create new textures for a PBR version, also if you ask me, i think the best approach for large entities such as the buildings is to make them multi textured in order to get a good texel density.
The house which you see in the attachment has 512x512 textures, only the door and windows of the old map will be used.
By separating them from the original map we can play with it and give the windows some shine or reflection i think.
Also, the total size of all the textures is about 9mb compared to 12,6 for the current maps.

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reyandekcire
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Posted: 7th Nov 2018 22:47
Just get MegaPack2 DLC and, well, most of the assets are just ugly and are useless for any (even not serious) project... I will continue to use the original FPSC Medieval/Dungeon packs so generously converted to GG by Teabone : most of the building are far better looking than those PBR updated ( Banquet hall, Royal appartments for example).
10€ wasted....
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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 11th Nov 2018 03:20 Edited at: 11th Nov 2018 03:30
ok ,
is it just me or is it now impossible to walk thru the gate ,,,
called "Entrance"..in this collection?
what changed now ???

UNIRD12B
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Posted: 11th Nov 2018 03:35
It appears on my machine with this collision mode. it was updated 11/5/2018
collisionmode = 0

Change it to this:
collisionmode = 1

Save the file reload the map.
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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 11th Nov 2018 03:41
Thx Myke ,
will it be corrected in the Model pack ??

Thx

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Posted: 11th Nov 2018 05:19
Would probably have to report it in Github to get it and all others changed.
Let me see how many others there are. Some of those should also have the forcesimpleobstical = 3 in them also.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 15th Nov 2018 04:36
Just to keep this thread up to date, I have contacted GraPhiX directly to see if he wants to tackle the geometry work on the older mega pack DLCs. Some of the models in these mega packs are ANCIENT (10+ years old) so they won't be AAA PBR quality, and never will be. The DLC updates we do on those are merely to provide extra metalness, gloss and AO maps so they have more PBR about them, but there is not much you can do with a 512x512 texture to suddenly make it 2Kx2K without some serious art effort, and by the time you have done all that work, you might as well have created a new higher polygon model from scratch. If anyone else is interested in doing some freelancer art corrections on the mega pack DLC, please post here as I am always interested in finding help from the community (as we do have a small donations pot we can dip into for misc items).
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Earthling45
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Posted: 15th Nov 2018 07:52
In this case it is the other way around, 2k textures for the castle have been reduced to a 512x512 PBR version.
I'd like to help out if that is ok.
GraPhiX
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Posted: 15th Nov 2018 17:54
Hi Earthling45, thank you that would be great

So far I have updated all of the PBR models in the buildings pack and also took time out of particles today and updated the first non PBR from the buildings pack, I have just done a couple to see if it meets with approval from Lee and the community.

Some of the assets will not be converted (atm) the textures are not good enough, also this Flats 1 Building was a nightmare I had to re do the UV map and also change the brick texture.


so do these look ok and should I continue ?


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Posted: 15th Nov 2018 18:17
Looks great
Ebe Editor Free - Build your own EBE structures with easy and without editing any text files
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Earthling45
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Posted: 15th Nov 2018 19:21
Fantastic work GraPhiX.
synchromesh
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Posted: 15th Nov 2018 20:25
So much better... Great work
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Earthling45
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Posted: 16th Nov 2018 07:51
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kL4MtG3axxtecdRRs942FlMo48j14dha

Maps for the first two buildings of megapack 2.

Please take a look and give your opinion, i've created 2k maps based on the original texture, lowered the illuminance slightly and tweaked them by using inverted maps.
I'd like to help but this is also a learning experience for me while doing so, so any comment and advise is welcome.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 16th Nov 2018 12:18 Edited at: 16th Nov 2018 12:21
That's very good thank you,
there are some extra faces on the original entrance.x model and some vertices are welded together that should not be, the UV is also stacked and does not need to be there is loads of room on it

Original UV Layout[u]


Proposed UV Layout[u]


Most of the visual issues are the normal maps and the ao maps they are both too aggressive and need toning down, the model and UV repairs are really personal preference but for PBR assets to look right both have to be nigh on perfect, any issues are exaggerated with the PBR shader, so I check the models first and if the model is beyond repair or going to take me a long time I skip it, UV stacking is not a best approach but some people do stack them and for DNSI its not really a problem but can cause baking issues with lighting especially with PBR textures, the bottom layer will always be darker than the top the more layers you have the darker the last face is.

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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Nov 2018 13:34 Edited at: 16th Nov 2018 13:36
Yeah, they've been stacked that way because it's a large surface area model and to fully explode all of the UV's you would need an extremely high resolution texture to get decent texture resolution when you move close up to the object. A lot of modellers do this when making models for game engines.

Note: in your updated UV map the texture resolution for each island is going to be half it was on the orginal, so you would need an atlas texture twice the size to get the same resolution.

It's the same issue i'm having with my Egyptian models at the moment, because these are quite large structures the UV islands would need to be quite large to give enough detail if i unwrap them all, meaning the texture is going to need to be more than a 2048 texture, but if i stack the UV's (which i don't like doing) i can get the textures down to 1024 and 2048. It's a dilemma.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 16th Nov 2018 13:46
I think as long as you don't stack more than 2 layers it shoud be fine, you will not be able to bake an AO map from the model though would have to create it from the texture which is what is causing the issues atm, AO bakes from texture can be very harsh
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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Nov 2018 13:59 Edited at: 16th Nov 2018 14:02
Yup, it's a pain.

I have a theory i will one day get around to trying out involving multi-textures. Obviously using multi-textures won't fix the issue of needing large textures, BUT, if you were to make a multi texture model that references the same single texture, you would have stacked UV's that are treated as separate texture but actually use just the one texture, keeping only a single set of not so high textures and avoiding the layering issue.

Might not work, but it's a theory, just need to test it sometime (will involve me learning how to make multi-texture models in blender which is something i haven't even tried yet because GG's multi-texture system was buggy so it was pointless, but now it's been improved i might have to look into it).

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Earthling45
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Posted: 16th Nov 2018 16:34 Edited at: 16th Nov 2018 16:40
Quote: "UV stacking is not a best approach but some people do stack them and for DNSI its not really a problem but can cause baking issues with lighting especially with PBR textures, the bottom layer will always be darker than the top the more layers you have the darker the last face is."


Thanks for this info, i did not know that it would cause problems.
What you show is kind of like the approach that i had for house 3 of the buildings pack.
For this entity i went the multi-texturing route and have scaled the uv's quite large as you can see in the picture.
This of course creates a new problem with the lightmapper because after using the lightmapper, some maps do not work, but we can use 512x512 textures and save about 3 to 4 mb of memory in my view.
Also as you mention, baking the ao map won't be possible.

I had seen the problems with the uv's of the entrance building, especially banquet hall is quite a mess with also n-gons and obvious holes in the model.
My approach would indeed be to simply create new entities from scratch as Lee mentioned, in fact i have a folder with modular parts for a castle which i've created and tested but i did not continue with it due to a drop in fps when placing the prefabs on the map.

Edit:
I just noticed i've made an image of the wrong file so don't mind the uv's but it does show how my approach is.

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PCS
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Posted: 17th Nov 2018 13:07
GraPhiX ,, congrats with the . MOD TEAM
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2018 13:11
Ok its been a week and I have not had any complaints ,

so particles on back burner and I will continue these on this workflow

Flats Building 2 updated to PBR
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Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
granada
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21
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 22nd Nov 2018 17:05
That’s looking very sharp,nice improvement

Dave
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
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AMD FX (tm)-9590 Eight-core Processor
31.96 GB RAM
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GraPhiX
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19
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Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 22nd Nov 2018 23:05 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2018 23:05
I have made some headway on the Buildings Pack, 26 done 26 left uuughhh

Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me

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synchromesh
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10
Years of Service
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Joined: 24th Jan 2014
Location:
Posted: 22nd Nov 2018 23:10
Quote: "I have made some headway on the Buildings Pack, 26 done 26 left uuughhh"

No rush mate … Anytime tomorrow will be fine
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Earthling45
7
Years of Service
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Joined: 3rd Sep 2016
Location: Zuid Holland Nederland
Posted: 22nd Nov 2018 23:27
The building looks good.
granada
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21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Nov 2018 00:30 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2018 00:31
Quote: "No rush mate … Anytime tomorrow will be fine "


Very true
(Now get back to it )

Dave
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
AMD FX (tm)-9590 Eight-core Processor
31.96 GB RAM
1920x1080,60 Hz
PM
GraPhiX
Forum Support
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2005
Playing:
Posted: 24th Nov 2018 17:32
LOL 31 done now just started the office buildings, this one was not too bad so I added an extra to it


Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me

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