Let's have a chat!



Its been 2 years since the release of Hunted: One Step Too Far on steam.
Since that time, a lot of things happened within the gg universe and I have improved a lot and learned even more things.

I jump from project to project and I just can't put it all together - it really concernes me and it gets frustrating.

My goal was always to make a second game - but I just cant seem to figure out a way to do it again.
There are many game devs here with cool projects and awesome skills...
please gameguru community, give me a hint. What am I doing wrong?

How do you guys stay motivated? How do you write a story ? Whats your workflow?
I would like to hear all of your suggestions and reports.
I am sure there are people with similar problems and maybe we can help each other!

Duchenkuke

I was just watching some of your clips on YouTube today and was quite impressed by the design and atmosphere in them.

On this forum and (from what I can tell) just about any game Dev forum, the vast majority of folks are people who have not released any commercial games, much less struggling to find the steam to release their second - so in that way I think you are perhaps being hard on yourself. But at the same time, obviously if you do want to be a 'real' studio and not a hobbyist who released a game, some level of consistency is required.

I'm not a game Dev, and even my modeling is very much a side gig compared to my 'real job,' so take my thoughts with a grain of salt compared to any more experienced folks who offer advice.

But from what I've seen/read, I get the feeling your main roadblock is that you want to make something epic - or at least considerably more epic than your first game - but the realities of the scope of such a project/the manhours needed - and also the limits of this game engine - are making it more appealing to start multiple projects.

So my (non game Dev) advice would be to accept that your next game is also not going to be the next stalker (in scope that is, in atmosphere perhaps it could be) and focus on making something small but really great while it lasts.

Your advice is really valuable. Thank you very much for your thoughts lorddweeb, it's much appreciated. You're right.. ^^

i think it happens to all of us, i know i certainly jump from project to project far too often but the most fun is when the idea is new and fresh.. before you get bogged down in the details and the troubles of things not going as planned
and i'm sure even professional coders feel the same but when you're living off the wage it will bring in you don't always have the luxury to quit and start a new project....
nothing wrong with it though, we can normally get a feel early on for what is working and what isn't - as i do it for fun my motto is; if you're not having fun then something is wrong.

but yes, definitely start small but keep your idea open to change and growth... if you have a solid base then your game can always adapt and expand as time goes on but if you try to create an AAA game from the go you will be overwhelmed and quickly give up... most great games come from something simple - look at something like minecraft, a simple idea but over the years it has become quite a complex game (by a solo dev's standards) and can continue to grow due to its very nature.
i don't (just) mean growing via the expanse of the world - game mechanics, loot, enemies etc, can all be added to later.

also it might be an idea to try out some different engines, GG is fun and all but perhaps a break to make some mobile game or 2D adventure will refresh your energy... finding the right engine for the job is half the battle

Hi Duch ,you tend to go at things head on and burn yourself out .how about a work plan,write it all down and follow a work path.you have the skill to do it (and remember stay away from the bin )

Dave

Your landscapes and environment design look epic and gorgeous but I think you get to a point where the FPS falls and then get motivated by another game idea.

I love GG but I’ve yet to find away to keep frame rates up with terrain and a lot of grass and trees even being crafty with level design fog and such. I’ve therefore morphed my game environment to ocean (above and below) and floating cities - in this way I can still keep most of the grand vision alive for the game.

I might be wrong but the games I think you seem to want to make might be better attempted in another engine (though selfishly I’d be sad to see you go) or modify your goals to what can be achieved with GG right now.

In this way you will likely get less frustrated though undoubtedly there will still be challenges ahead requiring resilience.

Cheers.

Thanks for all your great advice and opinions !
I will say this: I am not planning on an engine change - I just need to figure out how to addapt my ideas to gg so that I can keep performance at a decent rate.
Knowing that there are others with the same problem helps me already. This way I can feel less pressured and forced to "complete" something.
I am glad I wrote this thread and I appreciate all your comments. Thanks very much !

Naaa, that was Nuncio you are describing I do think Duchenkuke is not THAT impulsive.

@Duchenkue: Although I somehow can't get warm playwise with your games, the quality, effort and growth in experience you are putting into them is indisputabe.

But creating a workplan with GG is well nigh impossible, because almost anything unexpected may - sadly: expectedly - jump in your way only after you have done more than half your work and think you start to see the light on the horizon. (That made me what I personally call a " GG Level doodler" over time) . Different engines are really well suited to cool down again, but many (bar the two " big irons") have their own shortcomings , be it missing save/load featiures (how can this be in a GAME Engine? I mean, with a 3D Engine perhapsm , but with a Game engine?), being stable but technically outdated, abandoned, losing its commercai background, or not having at least ONE significant game (of the intended genre) the market. It only seems that other engines have way less "shanghai surprises" built into them, projecting with GG seems much like living your life on an active construction site.

I’m way past 5,000 hours and haven’t even released a demo or beta yet ... so don’t give up you’re miles ahead of me . I get distracted with shaders and more models instead of just getting on with finishing the game (on the grounds that it will play and look a bit better if I just ...) .

Cheers.

haha thanks cybernescence. Big Fan of your stuff - I might add

There's a reason I'm writing a book. Game-Guru is easy to start, hard to finish projects with. It takes dedication, commitment, and time. These are things that required for ANY game engine, but Game-Guru's marketing tends to lead one towards thinking that it's easier here. And in a sense, it is, but those three things are still required.

With respect to FPS - this is an extension of that. One thing that is an essential part of any game development process is optimization; bugsy is a huge proponent of 60 fps high speed low drag game design which is fairly ruthless. While it's not my cup of tea, it definitely is something more people could learn a thing or two from. There's also little things like optimizing your occlusion settings which are frankly missing on mostly every model from a few years ago. Newer models have them but it's fifty-fifty if they will need tuning or not.

There's little lua hacks you can do, such as disabling AI past 1000 units manually in the code or making sure only 3-5 are in play against a player at a given time (watch your framerate dive to the floor instantly by simply putting 20 active AI up). Sure, these are things we could rely on Lee/Github to resolve but at the end of the day making a game is often about working around limitations. If you know your limitations, try to find a creative solution to them.

we have a saying in my langue ( Afrikaans ) and it comes to this ' one must not stand with a white bread under your arm and complain.
i think what you have accomplish in the time you have been here is fantastic. don't be to hard on your self,
( just now we will think you complain about yourself. lol )
you have already released an commercial game, be happy , be proud and build upon it.
i have this much hours

and i still have nothing to show.
think how do i feel. lol

yea I know and I am totally happy about it. But you get used to it and want more at a certain point. It gets boring.^^



That's what I am trying..

Thanks for your words man

Staying motivated.... now that is an age old question which many have asked. As you know @Duchenkuke, I've been working on an open world horror game (unfortunately not in GG) but what you may not know is that I've been working on this game for the past 4 - 5 years.

Staying motivated seems difficult but I've found that the key to doing so is by pacing your creative cycles. Work consistently for 2 weeks, take a break for 1 to 2 weeks then rinse and repeat. This keeps your mind fresh on the project at hand and prevents burnout. You also end up taking a break for just long enough that you don't forget where you left off.

I specifically didn't use GG for this long term project because GG wasn't even a thought back then, but even now GG is still somewhat a young engine. As much as I love GG and still dabble with it to keep up with it's development I won't utilize it until it has evolved more. During this time I've had the opportunity to learn in other areas of game design. There are 2 projects which are on hold that I'm specifically going to use GG for. Anyway, this is all somewhat irrelevant.

Pace yourself and those amazing abilities of yours will flourish even further.

If you get bored with the game then your not going to finish it ..
Doesn't matter whether its GG, Unity UDK the result will be the same except it will be even harder in those engines and you may get bored quicker or do less because of the complexity …

Single Developers spend maybe 2 years on a game so a few weeks then getting bored could just be your bored working on that project pure and simple ..

Work on your game but not 24/7 .. Maybe work on 2 to break the monotony .. We all have the same problem as we are trying to do it all ourselves whereas a team all work on different aspect's and are probably paid for their part … Doing it all yourself is when the boredom comes in …

Paint doesnt get bored going on walls … That's me that has that problem ( and I really do )


And that's a joke … you have actually released a game which is more than many of us ..

I have 3384 Hours on GG and no game ..

And a pretty cool one, indeed!

For myself, my workflow usually follows something similar to a movie (with game functionality instead of special effects added as an afterthought). Not saying it's right for everyone but I go from the biggest pieces down to the smallest.

So here's how it goes:
1) Game concept.
2) Basic overall story, beginning, middle, end.
3) Chapters or acts.
4) Levels within those acts.
5) Beginning middle end of each level.
6) Playing through and adding new props, scripts, etc. as I think of them.

Typically I design everything in chronological order with both the idea for that particular level and the game ending in mind.

Motivation is a whole other thing and usually I get far too distracted making demo levels or testing new media to keep up with goals but generally setting some type of deadline for level 1, level 2, etc.

Something like a few days or one week to finish it, if I need to go back later, I will, but that way I'm not spending three months on one level.

Really interesting approach, but, as you said, even the best concept can`t inject motivation. However, if you already have a "Salamitaktik" of slices that can more easily and quickly being tackled, that might also help your motivation.

By the way, your nickname would be an awesome Goth / Dark Wave band name.

Haha, I like that, Salamitaktik. I think it's a usual thing with large teams each managing their own duties (lighting, level design, music) but as an indie team or one-person show, breaking it up helps to not feel overwhelmed. Baby steps instead of diving off the deep end.

Thanks, never thought of a band name, but ghost shadow/geistschatten would sound cool. Just always been my readily available username on everything.

I'm just gonna go ahead an be a dick. Grammatically correct would be "geisterschatten" (if its the shadow of the ghost) or "Schattengeist" (feel free to disregard this though) And yes, so fitting in fact that I can almost hear the music in my head now that Ertlov mentioned it.



-Wolf

(long reply to Duchenkuke coming later)

First, I'm still recovering from my flu and so not equipped to format this in a decent way so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

I'm going to talk a lot about my own game making history, not because I want to make this about me but because we are not so dissimilar. You just had a far faster leap forward than I did for various reasons thus the disillusionment is also setting in faster.
My last full release was not 2 years ago but 8 years ago. I finished a full project in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010 and then... a ton of discontinued projects, demos and some modelpacks. The reason for that being that my 2010 release got popular (this crummy thing). Before that my games had about 100 players, all also users of that software, suddenly one had several ten thousand, got printed on disc and was in the media (to a very small extend but for much younger me that was kind of a big deal ).

Released in 2010 and I still haven't gotten around to give it a presence on my website.
I suck!

You may have experienced this rush with your first project on steam. Now you have an audience! and people on here who hold your work in high regard so your next project has to have more features, has to be bigger, has to be better. You might even compare it to actual studio releases (which I notice gamers do to a far lesser extend than we devs think). The latter of course, is poison. (despite your last demo being rather close to mimick a slightly older studio title)
Its the equivalent of a short chubby chick standing in front of the mirror comparing herself to the girls in a victorias secret catalogue. Thats okay, not every guy wants a long legged top model and not all videogame players play only AAA blockbusters. Where was I going with this? Ah yes! Knowing your limits. This is something I have struggled with for most of my "career". You know in your head how to accomplish certain things and kind of repress the work hours it would need and the probability that the rather fragile tools we use (always keep that in mind when writing a plotline btw. I didn't do that, learn from my mistakes.)

You had your run ins with game gurus performance issues but its predecessor, fpsc, killed several projects that I poured a lot of effort into. Thats why I eventually quit making games for a good year but as you have probably noticed, its rather addictive.

Just look at this list of stuff and its not even complete.

One last thing about my creations and then I'll reply to your specific questions. This is Shavra. I started it pretty much upon GG's release and its the game I always wanted to make. Just that I had to realize that I can't. I don't have the skills to make that game. In fact, the project started in 2010 as "Relict", became "Relikt",then low res Spyra then high res "Spyra" .
As an artist, I have the "the road is the destination" mentality which is why I don't see this as a waste of time but as a learning experience but you can certainly see how it frustrated me to just look at it and realize that I just can't make it good.

The reason why I bring all this up is so you know that I truely get you and that there is only one way to get out of it. Make a little ritual of it.
Sit down, really think about what kind of game you want to make, what type of experience you want to convey and what kind of story you want to tell. Now look at the tools and skills you have and try to mold this together so its actually possible for you to do it (within a reasonable timespan) and then devote yourself to doing it.

Thats what I finally did with Acythian after learning a lot of lessons the hard way.



Videogames allow for a unique artistic expression by combining all art forms into one. I approach it as such and don't necessarily derive any inspiration from other games (sometimes yes, but most of the times no). Its fun and rewarding in a way, its escapism and I also have an urge to create things so making videogames is a cheap, convenient and effective way to do so. Acythian is going to be a silly shooter for most but for me its a short story, a painting and a challenge at the same time.
Keep in mind that someone working on an oil painting is usually also spending months on it (except for Bob Ross, his Kung Fu is too strong.)
How do I stay motivated? When I take the train to swizerland and see the run down railway equipment in france I want to model it. This morning I saw Alien 3. The whole movie takes place in a terribly depressing basment, it was beautiful! I wanted to make a map right away.
How do I stay motivated to keep working on the same project? Thats relatively recent that I figured that out: I don't allow myself to start anything new until it is done.



This is good writing advice neatly packaged in sarcasm.

A good video game story has to have 2 parts (yes, big experienced studios don't have to follow this but us amateurs should):
1 - simple core plotline. Our player has to do reach X and do Y. Keep in mind that when you take away the smoke an mirrors, videogames are just interacting with things in a simulated 3 dimensional space. That is why most games are about fighting stuff...its the path of least resistance to create something engaging. Its a hundred times easier to simulate an engaging sword fight than it is to simulate an engaging interactive conversation. Also note that here you have to decide how many NPC's will be there and how to engage them. Conversations are hard to do. The first few frictional games releases (an indie studio) had you contact NPC's over intercoms, or computers that you would eventually find dead. "Observer", a recent cyberpunk adventure has you talk to people through doors. I bring this up because I've overhauled some peoples GDD's and noticed that many included a large cast of characters not knowing how insanely hard it is to do that believably.
(Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back is a good example of a simple core plot line while "The Phantom Menace" is a good example of a needlessly convoluted one.)
Examples of simple core plotlines:

*Marked one hast to kill strelok, Strelok/Marked one have to reach the center of the zone.

*Riddick has to escape the space jail, now Riddick needs a ride away from the prison planet

* Corvo needs to kill all the bad guys, to topple an illegitimate government and put the rightful king on the throne.

*Find your father, he has a giant water filter.

2. Deep convincing lore:

While the primary story of the game should be simple to grasp and follow for the player, so he kinda always knows where he is and why, you will now want to make the world around him believable and engaging. Side characters, factions, circumstances, places should all have their own back story. If you are inclined to write or invent stories otherwise you'll do this automatically. The elder scrolls series is a good example: Even though you mostly punch spiders in some rotten cave there is also a whole world around you with its own pantheon, customs, tribes, cities, so forth. Even if your game is a corridor shooter on a space ship, dropping the occasional hint of what civilisation is like outside of your games parameters can greatly enhance the experience. Always ask "why".

3. Characters: Characters need to be products of their environment and be multi dimensional human beings if you are going to have them. For simpler games you can just hint at these things. Just avoid two things: Jack Generic and Mary Sue.

4. Visual storytelling: Design both a level and a place. If the environment is atmospheric and believable the player will get immersed. Thats why Thief and Deus Ex work so well despite not having aged good at all visually. An example: The trader in your demo just kinda stands there in the open in an awkward hazmat suit. Sidorovic in Stalker sits in an old soviet bunker, to see him, he has to open the automatic door and still he will be behind bars. This is because he sells weapons in a society of opportunists and criminals. Hazmat guy could be shot by any random bloke with a hunting rifle and be rid of all of his merchandise. Thief 3 does some amazing visual story telling while keeping it lowpoly btw.

This does not need to be long at all. Just write down your basic plotline and then you have something you can build upon. While doing so you'll also get ideas of how to put that into GG.





Dream up core gameplay ideas, concept and locations.
Basic Plot
List of levels required to complete plotline
List of possible additional levels you might want to have (never more than 2)
Making sure I have a good base of assets and scripts so I can start working on the actual game.
Working on levels. Its a mixture of sticking to a primary idea, working off of concept art or photos and winging it.
Adding gameplay
Polishing levels
Polishing gameplay
Sound
Complete Project! Excitment, extasy and then:
Runtime Error : 5005 I'm afraid I can't let you do that, Dave.

tl;dr - Think about the game you really want to make and commit. Its not always going to be fun, there will be long streaks of pain and boredom...thats part of the gig.

Thanks guys for all your replies.. I will think about it and maybe get back with new energy and fresh ideas maybe? Idk, I should really stop pressuring myself.

Looking at how many hours some guys have here, I almost feel bad that I complained lol....

Also this.

And see giant edit above.

whoa wolf... your post is gold.

Thank you very much for this HUGE and detailed answer.. At the moment I dont really know what to answer. I will let it sink in for now.
Just wanted to let you know I have read all of it and I will read it again - it's very valuable.

I agree in all points you made - and I really feel like the "sucess" (if you can call it like that) of Hunted is also the reason why I have so much pressure ...
I just need to clear my head and start all over - And maybe its just better for me to stop trying to make a shitty stalker clone.
I will take a little break I guess and gather thoughts again - Refill the Battery.

Thanks again for your Post - I always enjoy reading you.
And get well soon !

Duchenkuke

After 4 released games on Steam... all I can say, don’t jump from project to project.
That’s the dead of your game...
Think first what u want to do, then start... after a while u will be demotivated.... take break, do a few days something different, play a game, go on vacation...

Then after a few days or weeks (time doesn’t matter as bedtime/weekend dev) continue your project, don’t start a new one, maybe u can add the new ideas to your existing project.

U want to create a Stalker style game... then continue your project.
U could use your new underground level in that game too...

Even that freaky 80s style level with the neon colors, u could use it as “dream level”....

Great post Wolf - thanks for putting the time and thought into that.

Especially liked the character analysis and implementation piece. I’m sure you will have helped Duch but you have also helped me with NPC decisions I was wrestling with - essentially I can’t complete the complex interactions I need for building up story and decisions ‘comventionally’ but you have sparked a thought how I can and still keep the vision kind of intact.

Cheers.

Good ideas are like getting candy from a big candy jar.
You have to sift through the bad to get to the really good stuff at the bottom.

@Duchenkuke: You are welcome! I'm glad it was helpful and not just some rambling.

@Cybernescence: I honestly didn't expect anyone but Duchenkuke to read that wall of text but yeah, conveying to new users that even simple conversation cutscenes like you'd see in a PS2 game is a monumental task discourages many. Its a major thing we all have to find a work around for.



-Wolf

Lots of truths in Your post, wolf.
Thank you.

that's a shame. you're at a level of talent where gameguru struggles to handle your ability. other engines that wouldn't break a sweat from what you're doing might be easier for you to use if you get past that first awkward hundred hours of learning the new tools well. with 1600 hours in 2 years to dump into GG, i don't see how that would be a problem.

if you really wanna stick to GG, i'd suggest trying to use fake terrain and water for your games (modelling it yourself)
that i noticed really pulled my framerates down if i let GG use it's own terrain or water. the difference between 40 fps and 80 fps for me usually. I also hate to say this but given that i've never seen a commercial game made in GG with proper static lighting, i might avoid that too.

Another thing i'd suggest is not forcing yourself to make another commercial steam game. Make a game you want to make for the love of making it, and if the people around here resoundingly tell you it should be sold, worry about that then. If you make a game that gameguru cannot handle, which seems to be the norm for a lot of people around here, simply make another one and use what you learned. (hate to say it, you've got dozens more of these failed projects headed your way, and that's just how gamedesign is unfortunately, most especially with gameguru.) you'll be less disappointed with your end products since you didn't give yourself the arbitrary goal that it needed to be sold, which creates an almost unreachable quality standard for a single man devteam to attain. Otherwise you're limiting yourself to a standard that gameguru honestly cannot handle with any proven track record. I'd rather play a free one level unfinished gameguru game from you than pay 10$ for one that I know i'm not gonna like half as much as the last game I paid 10$ for due to its abysmal frame rates and 2006 graphics.

the "better" and more "commercially viable" you try to make your game, the worse it will look in comparison to truly commercially viable indie games by people and teams with more experience than you. make what you want to make, and understand that whatever big idea you have, it doesn't matter how well you do it, the software you do it with isn't even meant to be capable of it. It's like making a game in "Klik and Play" and charging money for it. Theoretically it can be done, but not to the standard that anyone would find to not be a bad business practice. The second you start charging money for your game, the second it is judged on the level of all other games that the player paid that much money for. It doesn't matter how much effort the dev put in, if it runs like a brick due to the game engine being a car with square wheels, people will feel that first.

tl;dr gameguru is simply not created for people who want to make a string of successful steam releases that look nice AND play well. it's an "asset flip" machine through and through, evidenced by the average age of its userbase, bugs being completely ignored unless they can be reproduced with stock media, and the fact that team requests have basically never been allowed. The better quality product you want to make, the harder you'll have to work, but for gameguru, that ratio is even steeper. it's far easier than anything else to make something terrible, but once you try to increase the quality it becomes exponentially more difficult, more so than even other game engines. If your goal is to continue to release successful commercial steam games and build your following, it's time to give something new a try. who knows, maybe you'll drop the same number of hours on it and make something so impressive you never look back.

edit- watch this playlist called the gamemaking journey by youtuber 2kliksphilip. it explains a lot about what to expect, how to keep motivated, and what sorts of games you as a single person should be trying to make.

Over 2300+ hours here and that is just Steam hours I put in, as many or more were before it was put on Steam. I haven't really used GG all that much for the last year as well, due to similar reasons you mention. I've been waiting for updates to improve performance and features while also trying to think of a simple idea I can finish. That and making mini games occasionally that I can hopefully use in a game at some point (like Shenmue). Of course that completely blows the simple idea out the water and that is one of my problems I always get new ideas while working on a game and that generally leads from simple to complicated. Sometimes it can't be helped, at least for me.

There's plenty of advice above so I won't re-iterate it here. Especially as I am in a similar position as you are (not released a Steam game though, just a couple of free ones, and those when GG was still much buggier than it is today). Making a good game is tough, there are plenty of GG Steam releases that are awful. I could have knocked em up in a few hours at most. I wouldn't want to release such rubbish though and you are right to be spending time getting things right, even if you end up dropping games and restarting or starting completely new projects. You will only get better at it and eventually you will get a second game out there. It could be worse as others have said, you could still be hoping for a first release ;p

The main issue indie devs face is the ever onward match of progress. Games get bigger and better, both graphically and mechanically (game mechanics). When I first got into trying to make games I was looking at Atari 2600 titles as inspiration, now we have huge open worlds with incredible graphics, masses of immersive, unneeded, but welcome elements that just add to the authenticity of the worlds like GTA TV shows/Radio stations etc. It all makes an indie feel like they can't compete at all. Things have moved on somewhat from those old 2600 games I used to love.

We can't really compete with those games. Trouble is, as back then, most take inspiration from games we play and love. It's not surprising most people want to make something similar to them. Trying to make a GTA clone however is far less practical than Space Invaders though. Back then I would have thought it practically wizardry and I probably wouldn't have even attempted to try. GTA back then of course would have been wizardry

bugsy your advice is very valuable. I fully agree and I will actually look for other solutions.



nailed it.

Honestly I gotta admit that I took a look at unity. And well... maybe its the start of something new. I will use gameguru just for fun at this point. And not with the goal of a second steam release.



I honestly dont think thats a problem at all, because Indie games have a special status. We do not need to comete with AAA releases - Indie Games can be more experimental and have more freedom - wich can be a huge advantage.

Thanks for all your comments

Did some calculations ….
1600 Hrs is 66 days …. That's about 9 weeks ..
In that time you have Created a full game … Released a game on steam .. Created and released some great Demos and learnt a hell of a lot ..

I now want to re access my original post …. Dunno what your whinging about

More like 8 months of 10 hour days ... gotta let the guy sleep and have some RL ... but I know what you mean

Cheers.

Im just larking really …
But even so .. From that point of view regardless of sleep that is the actual time spent using GG …
To achieve all that is still impressive

RL? What's one of those?

Real Life I think …

Still none the wiser.

when you go to the caravan and forget your laptop and only remember the beer

Lol, what would be the point of beer without a laptop?

Dude you probably start to make the game with the old GG engine who was a big crap , but i am sure that you already upgraded the game scenes to the version DX11 ,so as far as i see your game is great and the problem resides in the excess of that genre in the marked, and also made with superior game engines , that is why ,
It is not you story your script , you game , it is the market competition and of course superior engines , nevertheless you have made a great job and as a designer by work and formation i have to congratulate you.
Great job and do not lose hope or desire to continue to do beautiful things

Refilling my batteries at the moment. Thank you very much !

You already released a game. Wolf has released several. Other forum members too. And I'm still trying to create a decent scenario, because they all seem empty and with things/objects apart and very far...

Was thinking if it would be reasonable to create a GG Forum Studio to make a joint game. It would at least be a bit easier and faster to make. And it would be a good publicity to GG. And it could be small income source to help developp GG.

Actually No … Team requests are not allowed .. A forum full would be a nightmare ..

I dont get that... why shouldnt it be alllowed?

and why does the offical gg website say something different?

Where does it say there Team requests are allowed ?

AUP Rules and Guidelines

Team Requests
We do not allow any form of team requests. This sort of discussion should be handled via the PM system in the majority of cases, with the exception of the Off Topic board where we do allow team requests for established projects only! This includes asking to join a team, asking people to join your team or asking about creating teams.

ah okay didnt know that, thanks for the info. Misunderstood that ^^

Having said that according to the rules … Would a forum collaboration be considered and established project ?
Even im not sure on that one

clearly the rule is only for the process of asking for / establishing a team, not disallowing team work or forum collaborations - this is because of issues with people falling out and payments etc... all this stuff should be kept private but you are free to share your work / progress

I think its from previous experience for TGC
However I really don't think it would be a good idea .. One person doesn't agree and all hell will break loose

I can also see how some might see a discrepancy on the store page since it mentions "collaborate together".

However I can imagine allowing team collaboration would be a real nightmare for moderators. In any case would you not want to keep the nitty-gritty of your project under wraps and not in a public forum, apart from a teaser of progress - which we already have a forum for

Reliquia....