Product Chat / Double your FPS in GG - help needed.

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Preben
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 08:41 Edited at: 8th Jun 2018 10:23
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A experimental version of GameGuru , that will doubble your FPS on highest and add around a 30% boost in medium.

It use the same tricks i use on mobile devices to get a good FPS, like decreasing the shadow samples by distance. so up close you get a great shadow and way out it only use a few samples ...

But i need your help to test this out, this version have a special setup that i need you to confirm works on your system, Also please post the FPS you get in your current GG version and in this version, you can select both Highest and Medium and perhaps post both FPS. Also post your graphics card if it dont double your FPS

Hope everyone can test this, as i need the feedback before i make the final changes.

Download "The Big Escape" standalone and give it a try:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ap4Etm_3qkHofkNnzEKb3iL1T8c

Edit: When you test your local version of TBE , you should set the shaders to highest to compare ( they are set to medium , the standalone defaults to highest ) . also remember to set vsync=0.

Dont want to go into details yet, there is so many changes in this, but the editor will also get a nice speed boost/better shadows/less z fighting ...

Depending on your feedback, i have two direction i can go with this, so the more testers the better, thanks for your help
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 10:02
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I'm trying to persuade myself I see an improvement but if any it's definitely not double.

I'll try again later and try to get some identical shots from each for a more accurate comparison. I have an AMD Nano btw, paired with a gen 6 i5 system.
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Preben
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 10:09
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AmenMoses: Thanks for testing.

This standalone defaults to highest, so when you test your own TBE ( that are medium) you should switch it to highest for entity and terrain to compare
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 10:16
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Bod: thanks , did you set the shaders to highest when you tested from the editor ?
( they are default medium ).
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 10:19
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Morning I am trying to download it im on very poor WiFi so may not be able to test today, I am back off holiday tomorrow
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 10:30
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When testing please make sure your running on highest, check this in both the standalone and on your own copy
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 10:32
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I created my own standalone and copied the .ini files from yours to it. I then tried medium and high from the in game menus, switched back and forth several times between the two standalones and any difference didn't really jump out at me. maybe 10 FPS increase? But the FPS jumps around so much anyhow it is difficult to do a simple comparison, I'll have to set a specific position, let the FPS settle and take screenshots in both with as near identical locations as possible.

I'll do that later when I'm done with my days chores.

Although not a reliable indicator I did note that my GFX card fan came on much sooner with the 'stock' version than with yours and seemed slightly louder but that could have been some other process in the background, can never really tell what windows 10 is up to behind the scenes!

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Preben
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 10:53 Edited at: 8th Jun 2018 10:55
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AmenMoses: You cant test it like that as you will then run with a very low cascade memory in the old version as it dont support different cascade sizes like: realshadowsize0=4096 , so to test it you should just "save standalone" and not change any settings, that way the old version and the new will use the same cascade memory

Bod: Great news , could you try the same on your GTX980Ti , and make sure that both versions are on highest , would really help , did you try your lightmapped level in the latest beta ? (it has some fixes to lightmapped memory that should fix that) but yes this also give some boost to lightmapped levels.
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 11:27
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Bod: the lightmapped fixes is not in 2018.4.23, so you must wait for the next release , yes please test with vsync=0. also if you could post both medium and high fps that would really help.
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 11:33
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Here is my test.

i5 - GTX 1060 - TBE:
before: high: 66fps. medium: 122fps.
after: high:121fps medium:157fps

This can confuse as high now runs nearly as fast as the old medium. please post both medium and highest fps
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 11:37
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Hi Preben, i'll test it today and record it while doing so.
Does this also include the memory enchangements? i'll monitor it as well while i'm testing.
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 13:24 Edited at: 8th Jun 2018 13:39
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@Preben: Followed your instructions, before and after pics attached.

I'll check out medium settings with the exact same positioning next.

Edited to add more pics.

Lol, just realised you can't see the filenames: They are in order:

High - stock version
High - improved version
Med - stock
Med - improved
High - stock
High - improved

In all cases a marked improvement but not "double" for me.
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cybernescence
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 15:46
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i5 - GTX 750TI - TBE:
before: high: 29fps medium: 32fps.
after: high: 36fps medium: 45fps

(using latest beta for the before)

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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 16:52
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i7-950 / Radeon R9 Fury
V: 20180532
Vsync: Off
Res.: 1920x1080

Before
Medium: 152 fps
Highest: 38 fps

After
Medium: 162 fps
Highest: 95 fps
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smallg
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 18:49 Edited at: 8th Jun 2018 18:54
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hmm well this is going to be a bit of an unfair test as nearly all the models are missing in my newly created standalone of the big escape.... good old GG
fixed it by copying over the cityscape folders manually... will post the results when your new version finishes downloading
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 19:57 Edited at: 8th Jun 2018 20:00
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ok here are my results
- test game in GG
medium = 40fps
highest = 20fps

- standalone created in GG
medium = 40fps
highest = 20fps

- new standalone from preben
medium = 60fps (vsync is off)
highest = 40fps

of course moving around in combat or looking at the sky/ground etc changes the fps down/up but this is the average fps from a "real" gameplay style approach.
visually things look slightly more defined in the new version (could just be the darker shadows making the cracks etc more prominent though) and i can't really see much difference between medium and highest either, both look good, i assume we'd be missing some shader effects but nothing really jumped out at me (though i tend not to like them anyway so i'm probably not the right person to ask).
the new standalone felt perfectly fluid to play on highest which was nice to see, so yes it does have a big impact for me

i have a pretty average PC now i would say (spec in sig), which can still play all the latest games on high - though it could certainly do with a graphics card update in the near future.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 20:13
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Just realised why my results aren't as impressive, my 'stock' GG is actually the latest Beta, I'm guessing that the "doubling" is when compared to the current public release and some of the improvement is due to the Preben changes Lee already merged in the Beta.

Still an impressive improvement though!
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Earthling45
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Posted: 8th Jun 2018 22:44
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Well, it certainly is an improvement performance wise and memory usage which is about 20/25 percent lower.
But the strange thing is that the loading takes longer as you can see in the monitoring graph.
On highest settings before 36 fps, after 56 fps (looking at the bridge at the start).

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smallg
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Posted: 9th Jun 2018 00:18
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Quote: "But the strange thing is that the loading takes longer as you can see in the monitoring graph."

i was wondering if that was just my imagination or not, i was too lazy to bother timing it but i did feel it took a bit longer to load the level... not really enough to worry about though and certainly wouldn't make me want to keep the original fps... we just need videos or something to hide the load times
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synchromesh
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Posted: 9th Jun 2018 01:33
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Quote: "we just need videos or something to hide the load times "

A better thicker loading bar would be an improvement and you could blag 5 seconds or at least make you think it by having the loading bar reach 100% 5 seconds early … Trust me the illusion works
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Preben
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Posted: 9th Jun 2018 08:51
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Thanks for testing,

It went as expected , older GPU are just not optimized for so extreme large depth buffers , so i will code it the safe way that give older GPU the largest fps boost and newer GPU less , but overall it will give a nice boost

Dont worry about loading times , last update was the mem stuff, this update will be about fps , after i finish this i will start to work on a update that give you faster loading times , but more about that later.

Actually your getting better results then your reporting , if you look at the screenshots the new standalone has a way larger camera range (50) and you can actually see the moving skybox, the stock version has a very small camera range.

And yes the shadows is able to go darker, i have expanded the slider range so you can control it like you want it.

Everything will be configurable in any possible combination without shader changes needed, so you can define it just the way you like Quality vs. Speed / New vs. Old GPUs you decide, but the defaults will be way faster (old and new gpus) and in a better quality then we have now.

More info to come when i finish this update, and thanks for helping out
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Earthling45
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Posted: 9th Jun 2018 08:58
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Quote: "i was wondering if that was just my imagination or not, i was too lazy to bother timing it but i did feel it took a bit longer to load the level... not really enough to worry about though and certainly wouldn't make me want to keep the original fps... we just need videos or something to hide the load times"


It indeed is nothing to worry about, Preben has done an outstanding job with this.

It can indeed be used for a video or some images with documentation while loading.
I just thought it was odd because Prebens version consumes a lot less memory.

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Posted: 9th Jun 2018 10:05
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Here are my stats:

Intel i5-6600 @ 3.30 GHz
Nvidia Geforce GTX 1050Ti
2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 2,400 MHz
Windows 10 Pro

Here are my results:

My build
Loading: 33.58 sec - Had a Windows spinning wheel of loading for 10 seconds or so, randomly, every time I tried
High: 52 - 72
Med: 67 - 93

Preben's build
Loading: 22.43 sec - No spinning wheel
High: 58 - 80
Med: 73 - 100

Conclusion: 11% increase on high, 8% increase on medium. I'd still take Preben's version though, the shadows looked nicer

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Posted: 10th Jun 2018 03:41 Edited at: 10th Jun 2018 04:34
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Here are the test results. I used Fraps to capture frame rate. The first image is the test level with all shaders set to the highest. The second image is the stand-a-lone you had provided. BTW, I am using the current beta release of 2018-05-31.
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Preben
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Posted: 10th Jun 2018 08:10 Edited at: 10th Jun 2018 08:33
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Avenging Eagle:

Thats the worst result , i did not expect the Nvidia Geforce GTX 1050Ti to suffer from this.

Could you try to edit the setup.ini in the standalone and remove this line "realshadowsize0=4096" , then run the standalone test again.

Im not sure if this card has a problem with the shadows samples or the large depth buffer , it would really help if you could give it a try

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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 10th Jun 2018 14:55
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@Preben

OK, I deleted the line you specified and tried again:

Loading: 30.45 seconds
Medium: 74 - 101 (no change)
High: 67 - 89 (~10 frames more than before)

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Preben
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Posted: 10th Jun 2018 20:46
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Avenging Eagle: mainly looking at your medium, .no change , so i guess the problem is the number of samples, i will try to reduce that so you get better results
Thanks.
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Posted: 11th Jun 2018 00:05 Edited at: 11th Jun 2018 00:05
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its there a conclusion? can you post some setup.ini tips to increase our fps? that would be so great
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Preben
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Posted: 11th Jun 2018 09:18
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Quote: "its there a conclusion? can you post some setup.ini tips to increase our fps? that would be so great"


Yes conclusion everyone will get a FPS boost , but it will first work when im done with it , i have not even sent it to GitHub yet , all the new setup.ini options might change names , so i will not describe them before its final
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Posted: 11th Jun 2018 10:16
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hmm, would this help levels with baked static lighting too?
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Posted: 11th Jun 2018 11:14
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Bugsy: Not a lot , only dynamic objects goes this route so a little , but dont think you will see anything special
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Posted: 11th Jun 2018 15:42
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Well @Preben .. thats great news!!! Thank you
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Posted: 11th Jun 2018 23:58
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@preben, works well, impressed.
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 06:43
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Hi Preben, I see unfortunately the same problem here as in Defys AI module thread.
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 12:30
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Ertlov: Ha yes thats the problem with core changes you cant really sell it like a script, anyway perhaps i get a cut from the donation system ?

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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 15:11
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I cannot see any difference myself. The standalone from GG runs as well if not better than the version posted. I used default settings, so perhaps that can attribute for it. Both ran pretty well in honesty, the Big Escape is one of the better examples GG has for speed anyway. To notice a difference here I think a more demanding level would be required. Even my old Q6600 ran TBE pretty darn smooth.

I did notice however the lack of a cross-hair. I must say, for me it made the game worse as aiming in GG is not great even with one. I know this is nothing to do with this speed update of course, just voicing my view of that particular change. I know some people prefer this, but for us casual FPS gamers, it would be nice to have an option to enable it again (which of course there may be). If not I suggest it is added

Kudos for working on this though From a glance at others posts it seems most are seeing a fair difference.
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 15:51
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Quote: " (which of course there may be)"


I'm pretty sure someone posted a while ago that the cross hair isn't gone, it's just disabled in the gun spec and you can put it back if you want it.
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 17:22
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DVader:
Quote: "The standalone from GG runs as well if not better than the version posted. I used default settings"


Yes that is true, but the default setting in stock is medium with a VERY low camera range , and in the new standalone it is highest with a large camera range , and yes that can confuse as highest now run as fast as the old medium. But there is a pretty large difference , "cross-hair" has been disabled since the first DX11 version so ... but ok i will make sure you can enable the old slow shadows, actually i already did so no problem.

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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 18:13
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@Belidos. Ah, that's ok then I haven't used the Dx11 version too much as yet. Still an option in editor may be preferable by many peeps generally. Perhaps down the line a bit.

@Preben. Well, I'm using the DX11 version and it does indeed have cross-hairs. I noticed immediately when running your demo that they had vanished. So I think the cross-hair change is something yet to be added to the official Steam version.

So to give it a fair test I would need to change settings in GG before making a standalone?
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 18:44
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Uhm no you can just change to graphics in the standalone while playing from the pause menu - though of course it gives much less options it's the quickest and most accurate way for a quick comparison (as we don't really know which sliders are changed by preben)

It definitely gives a boost as the new standalone is set to highest and the default for a self made standalone is medium, if you set the new one to medium or the self made one to highest you will see.
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 19:00
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I did not know what I should do, so I just started the game and looked around(I did not move, because the FPS are very inconsistent in TBE)
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DVader
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 19:51
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Quote: "Uhm no you can just change to graphics in the standalone while playing from the pause menu"

Already tried that, couldn't see any real difference here. I was thinking of upping view distance for a better comparison, as Preben mentioned it was a lot higher in the version he has posted. View distance makes a significant difference to GG speed as you know If the demo I played is set a lot higher than it was originally, it is doing well to maintain speed so I can't tell a difference



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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 20:20 Edited at: 12th Jun 2018 20:28
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DVader: In stock you still need to set Terrain and Entity shaders to "highest" to compare ( tab tab ), not just the camera range

Edit: please also post your before / after fps in medium and high so i can compare , and please your video card.
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DVader
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Posted: 13th Jun 2018 12:56
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Since it was updated the Geforce experience is total rubbish. Can't get the FPS counter displaying at all So I doubt I can give you FPS readings. I'm not sure why it seems to be ignoring the option, the status indicator pops up as normal when recording. There used to be settings for windowed mode and full screen which may be causing it, but if they still exist I can't see em.

I've set the draw distance to 50 on the new standalone and so far it still looks smooth, both on medium and highest. I think it is going to be difficult to spot any difference just by looking at this point.

Obviously I can give you fps readings from within GG, but I have been using a standalone to compare directly against your standalone so far. If anyone knows what may be the issue with the fps display I can probably give some better feedback

Oh I noticed the cross-hair vanish on the standalone I made as well. It seems that as I ran the game in GG this time round, in order to alter settings and then saved it, the cross-hair vanished. The first time, I just loaded the level and saved a standalone straightaway. So that explains why I was seeing it on in DX11
SPECS: Ryzen 1700 CPU. Nvidia 970GTX. 16 Gig Memory. Win 10.
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Posted: 13th Jun 2018 13:05 Edited at: 13th Jun 2018 13:06
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DVader: if your using the 970GTX from your sig , then your properly getting 60+ in both versions , so you cant see the difference. You might have the vsync set in your graphics control program , so even if you use vsync=0 in setup.ini it will still be at 60 fps. F11 to display FPS do work here strange ?.
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DVader
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Posted: 13th Jun 2018 13:17 Edited at: 13th Jun 2018 13:30
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I was not aware I could press F11 in a standalone, so I've learned something new, not sure if that's a new thing or I have been missing it for years lol. I am using the PC specs I have in my sig and I was on 59-60 by the looks. I'll look at disabling vsync and see what I get.

Okay, with an FPS reading and disabling vsync I am seeing a decent difference.

Standard GG with 50 draw distance set
Medium 128 fps
Highest 69 fps

Your Standalone.
Medium 145 fps
Highest 119 fps

Not sure what the distance was set to in your version but there's a massive difference in fps here on highest. Very nice work.
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Posted: 13th Jun 2018 21:59
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DVader: Thanks , was kind of waiting for your feedback , but as i expected you "nearly" double your fps , so im ready to submit everything to GitHub now, you scared me there
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Posted: 14th Jun 2018 11:07 Edited at: 14th Jun 2018 11:08
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Easy to see once I'd got the draw distance upped and could actually see the FPS. Sorry if my edit delayed you, but I try to avoid double posting Excellent boost for GG. You guys on github are starting to make me wonder what Lee has been doing all this time ;p
SPECS: Ryzen 1700 CPU. Nvidia 970GTX. 16 Gig Memory. Win 10.
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Posted: 14th Jun 2018 12:53 Edited at: 14th Jun 2018 12:53
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DVader: np

The branch is now available, to everyone that want to use it before the beta/pp/release versions:

https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/pull/253
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Ertlov
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Posted: 14th Jun 2018 13:41
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Hi Preben, as I have no Github here (only at work), can you provide me the changed files needed via Link over PM?

(Yes, I am also betatester)

Would be very curious to test it on my old beastmap (Father's Island)
"I am a road map, I will lead and you will follow, I will teach and you will learn, when you leave my sprint planning you will be weapons, focused and full of JIRA tickets, Hot Rod rocket development gods of precision and strength, terrorizing across the repository and hunting for github submits."
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