Product Chat / PBR materials in GG what a joke !!!

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imothep85
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:03 Edited at: 31st May 2018 20:21
hi
i was trying your PBR objects from CityscapePBR in entity mode, curious about how PBR react inside GG i created a small scene with those PBR objects so lets see the result !

first my scene:

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imothep85
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:10 Edited at: 31st May 2018 20:23
and here REAL PBR materials samples

Whats the problem ???

Maybe the materials Maybe the crap lightmaping system, or maybe the engine !

I have buy today substance painter pack+ b2m3 etc for a cheap price ( 300eur ) , and pbr materials made with substancee are EXELLENTS !

but for having a PBR object in GG, it's simply impossible !

So WHY is no real screenshots of PBR materials inside gg, because its impossible this engine CAN'T render PBR scenes / materials !

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imothep85
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:13 Edited at: 31st May 2018 20:14
How can you call THIS a PBR material please ?
Because you need to explain more...
and you can try every object inside gg is the same crap quality !

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synchromesh
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:23 Edited at: 31st May 2018 20:25
Quote: "So WHY is no real screenshots of PBR materials inside gg,"

You mean you want the Model selection pics in PBR ?

So can we see a model you created with PBR textures in GameGuru ?
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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imothep85
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:24 Edited at: 31st May 2018 20:36
i dont created model at the moment i tested the character provided with substance designer !
I buy my licence today, and also i dont waste my time modeling something for GG i test only with spheres & cubes & cylinders.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:35
Have a look in my thread I do videos inside my Quixel suite and then a video in GG and I can say that GG is very very close to the same results normals are a little tame and saturation is quite vivid but remember it's not just the texture if the model is poor it affects how it looks and the slightest tweak of the sliders can have a massive effect on it looking wrong atm it's all a fine balance and takes a little time to get things look right you have a very negative attitude and it shows in your posts PBR is an art it cannot be rushed and it's all in the preparation work on how you get good results
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synchromesh
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:37 Edited at: 31st May 2018 20:38
So what are these then .. The impossible PBR ?

The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..

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imothep85
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:47 Edited at: 31st May 2018 20:49
just objects with a color diffuse & a reflection cubemap but THOSE are definitely NOT PBR materials, those are FAKES PBR materials who gives you just an impression because of the reflections but a material is more than just a diffuse and a reflection !
if you look at your screenshots the firts at the left is not SILVER, the second is NOT COPPER and the last one is NOT GOLD
HERE are reals PBR materials !

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:51
lol @synchromesh errm they are the ones I made a boo boo with lol I missed the smoothing groups out of them
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imothep85
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:54
and if you look at my pbr material inside substance, this IS a real gold PBR material !

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xCept
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Posted: 31st May 2018 20:56 Edited at: 31st May 2018 20:57
Someone else raised a similar topic here about Substance w/ GG. Belidos' advice was:

Quote: "How have you named your textures?

They should be:

name_color
name_normal
name_metalness
name_gloss
name_ao (optional)
name_detail (optional)

Are you using the corrct shader in your .fpe?
effectbank\reloaded\apbr_basic.fx"


And also he has an in-depth tutorial here:

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219411
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 31st May 2018 21:08 Edited at: 31st May 2018 21:19
you get out of it what you put in, a lot of those DLC packs were designed for DX9 not DX11 they have for a better word just had a face lift, build your model and texture it and put it into GG and post a screenshot as far as I am concerned even with broken lights and memory issues the DX11 upgrade is awesome.

the way you have posted this thread is very harsh you could have posted that you are having problems to get PBR assets to look right, you are more likely to get help for this brilliant community, yes GG is a work in progress and yes things could be better but to say it is a joke is really an insult to Lee and this community and the people whom give there free time to help develop GG.

and the metals were over emphasised on purpose I was asked to make Orbs to show environment as well as metal, the barrel is a true stainless steel

If you are serious and you want help send me a PM and I will do what I can



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synchromesh
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Posted: 31st May 2018 21:28 Edited at: 31st May 2018 21:29
Quote: "lol @synchromesh errm they are the ones I made a boo boo with lol I missed the smoothing groups out of them "

Darn it i grabbed the wrong ones from the wrong folder

The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..

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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 31st May 2018 21:37
@GraPhix-Personally I think you've done some awesome work, love the orbs....
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 31st May 2018 22:58
Quote: "@GraPhix-Personally I think you've done some awesome work, love the orbs.... "


thank you BOTR its not a patch on what you have done
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cybernescence
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Posted: 31st May 2018 23:18 Edited at: 31st May 2018 23:19
Aaargh - ranty caps man is back.

Almost can't be bothered to reply ... yes the lighting needs more work, but can get really nice results now:



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granada
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Posted: 31st May 2018 23:52
Nice one cybernescence enough said

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Ertlov
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 01:14
I have exported several megascans to GG and they start looking really damn close to the real thing.
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 01:54
PBR made in 3D Coat
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.

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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 02:17
Shiny PBR Gold made in 3D Coat.
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.

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sbegley001
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 03:26
Beautiful work guys! Definitely inspired to go dust off blender and 3d coat...
imothep85
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 04:08 Edited at: 1st Jun 2018 05:45
when i see all those screenshots ( excepted the last one gold cross and the steampunk car ) i see one thing, the problem IS more a lightmapping problem than the full game engine.
and because of the bad lighting system, we cant have good results !
i was playing DOOM on steam, and the quality of that game is what i was looking in therm of style for reproducing those bautiful materials.
i took more than 300 screenshots, here some pbr materials examples from doom.

OF course GG is not unreal engine, but we seriously need to push the engine far than what we have now.
what i see also when i look at users pbr materials it doesn't LOOK like real pbr materials because they are just shiny like plastic or looks like a flat diffuse with exaggerated bump.

so all the work we do and time spent in gg is wasted, because everytime we look at, doesn't look like something from 2018, but something from 1990.

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Ertlov
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 05:37
Agreed, the lighting is currently a mess. but the actual surface renderer is pretty neat.
"I am a road map, I will lead and you will follow, I will teach and you will learn, when you leave my sprint planning you will be weapons, focused and full of JIRA tickets, Hot Rod rocket development gods of precision and strength, terrorizing across the repository and hunting for github submits."

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imothep85
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 05:46 Edited at: 1st Jun 2018 05:47
Ertlov you see your rocks looks ver nice, but yes we lose all the effort and quality, because it's the lightmapping system !
Ertlov
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 05:59
Quote: "something coming from 2018, but something from 1990."


*cough*

Terminal Velocity (1995, was a Graphics Monster back then):

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/489241-terminal-velocity-dos-screenshot-ice-planet-boss-too-easy.gif




Call of Duty 4, Modern Warfare, 2007



Far Cry 2, 2008
(we can beat that slightly with a huge effort now)

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Belidos
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 06:30 Edited at: 1st Jun 2018 06:32
Yes the lighting isn't great in gameguru and could be improved, even Lee would admit to that. But that doesn't mean pbr is bad, from what ive seen it works realy well. I think one of the reasons some people don't think it's right is because they're trying to compare renders from software like substance painter etc. But the thing is they will probably never look the same, every software renders pbr slightly different, the key is that you have to model and texture to the strengths and weaknesses of the engine you're going to use, and then you have to work with the post effects in that engine to make it look better, just painting a model and slapping it down doesn't woreally, and doesn't really work in any engine.

There are a few shader tweaks you can do to make it closer to the unreal look, prebend posted them a while back, if nobody has linked them before I get to a pc I'll find a link and post it.
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Wolf
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 06:54 Edited at: 1st Jun 2018 07:09
Quote: "so all the work we do and time spent in gg is wasted, because everytime we look at, doesn't look like something from 2018, but something from 1990."


Well first of all you can't really date graphics this way and second your test scene has completely flat lighting. How do you expect it to look with these settings? Try using different light settings, change the specular behaviour in the settings.fx file. Something other than just drag and drop.

I don't use PBR but here are screenshots from users that do:









What I do use is the lighting system which was almost decent in the X9 version. If we can have that back and a few improvments we would be good in my opinion.









(notice light reflecting on surface)



You see there are a lot of us squeezing a lot out of this engine and to just coast in here and claim that it looks like something from 1990 ...



Its just insulting to all the users who do a pretty decent job with this software. People like Duke.

I also don't see why you think that you can replicate id softwares Doom. They are masters of their craft and indie games by hobbyists almost never look like they are from current year. You got valid points and things need a lot of work, but showing up here calling everything crap isn't gonna improve anything.



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Ertlov
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 08:34
Quote: "Its just insulting to all the users who do a pretty decent job with this software. People like Duke."


JESUS CHRIST!!!

What a video!

I still remember his first steps towards creating a game, and now he is really a master of his own. Impressive!

Quote: "What I do use is the lighting system which was almost decent in the X9 version. If we can have that back and a few improvments we would be good in my opinion."


Yes, but you have to keep in mind that only very few devs optimized their lightpainting to the degree you did (and still do, I hope).

"I am a road map, I will lead and you will follow, I will teach and you will learn, when you leave my sprint planning you will be weapons, focused and full of JIRA tickets, Hot Rod rocket development gods of precision and strength, terrorizing across the repository and hunting for github submits."
synchromesh
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 10:12 Edited at: 1st Jun 2018 17:16
Quote: "I also don't see why you think that you can replicate id softwares Doom."

Well Doom began development in mid 2008 and took about 65 million dollars to make. If you add in employee costs it's about 90 million dollars...

Not £14:99 along with substance painter and a keyboard with a faulty caps lock.
You just cannot expect such results in GG.
But it isnt that bad though either.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 13:48
Why aren't some of these screenshots here … https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219585
Amazing stuff
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tdreisinger
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 15:14
Quote: "and a keyboard with a faulty caps lock."


That there is some funny stuff!
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TazMan
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2018 13:07
Quote: "Well Doom began development in mid 2008 and took about 65 million dollars to make. If you add in employee costs it's about 90 million dollars..."


I agree with Synchromesh, you really cant put GG up against something like this or any professionally built game. This is a system that enables anybody to create a game and has been built by TGC working with its users.

But saying this the game machine has come a long way and there have been some spectacular results from it. The PBR system has just been introduced but even so, there has been some impressive models made with it, particularly since we the modelers are not professionals and we are working with software and machinery that has not cost a fortune. (I apologize if there are any professional modelers working with GG, but I am talking about most of us if there are any?)

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Wolf
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 08:02 Edited at: 12th Jun 2018 08:05
Quote: "I agree with Synchromesh, you really cant put GG up against something like this or any professionally built game."


Neither can one assume that if GG did indeed have these features, that a regular users could make games like that.

@imothep85: Please refrain from posting these type of threads constantly. It is starting to border on spam.
synchromesh
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Posted: 12th Jun 2018 12:24 Edited at: 12th Jun 2018 15:12
Quote: "Please refrain from posting these type of threads constantly. It is starting to border on spam."

Im also thinking they may be more suited to 3rd Party Models and Media as they all seem PBR model related ..
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