Product Chat / Defy AI module testing

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Defy
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Posted: 26th Mar 2018 18:32 Edited at: 11th Jun 2019 01:47
Outdated information - Stock has since been updated. Please refer to latest build for additionals, Thank you.
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lordjulian
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Posted: 26th Mar 2018 22:21
That's a good start! I do wish the devs would overhaul the AI big-stylie because, in my opinion, it is the thing that is dragging GameGuru down more than anything and has been for some time.
Julian - increasingly disillusioned and jaded
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Defy
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Posted: 26th Mar 2018 23:37 Edited at: 2nd May 2018 09:54
Hi, thank you and good morning.
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Corno_1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 14:21
@lordjulian
Quote: " I do wish the devs would overhaul the AI big-stylie because, in my opinion, it is the thing that is dragging GameGuru down more than anything and has been for some time."

I give you a tipp, how to get a good AI:
Make a list what the AI needs as detailed as possible like:
see player -> Ai shoot (condition leads to action)(separate Zombies and Soldiers)
Then make a thread and let it discuss what other think they need from the AI.
Then the devs finally have a starting point where the problems are and can work on it.

Or complain further. Your choice

@defy
Pretty cool
I tried to port my FPSC AI to GG, but I never come far, because it really need a lot of time and feels like a headcrab.

Here is one of my little successes, maybe you have a use for it:


It was a starting point for "How the AI works" so I can rewrite the AI completely

Have a nice day
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granada
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 16:10
Looked good,nice to see something different .

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Defy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2018 17:35 Edited at: 6th Apr 2018 04:41
@Corno_1 Thank you, and that's very interesting.

@granada Hey, thank you also.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 28th Mar 2018 20:59
Nice work Defy, keeping an eye on this
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Bugsy
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2018 23:54
nice!!! they already look more responsive than the default AI. I'd really like to see this working in an actual level with a player who has like 100 health, and lots of details and multiple floors, as well as interiors and exteriors (and lights). you should really make and release a 1 level shooter as a demo!

can this work with ragdoll physics?
Defy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2018 04:21
@graphix , thanks. I will continue to put in the hours. Hope to have something to show tonight my time.

@bugsy , thanks also.
There are some things I have to sort out. Though I would be more than happy to make a video of a level for now.
Stock. How many AI, like 20? Or U want more? Cheers again for the support.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 4th Apr 2018 03:39
i mean, really you should make a stress test level with all sorts of AI challenges and situations, such as:

area with lots of enemies and cover
hallways with little cover
tall and short cover
multi-tiered shootouts (like on more than 1 floor or level)
and perhaps a slightly complex layout which may require more navigation than "right to player"
I'd also like to see entity rooms, segment/EBE rooms, and terrain used (and better if all at once/together but i know that's asking a lot)
maybe different enemy types/classes
(and a dash of production value to sell it maybe give them sounds?)


then populate it with your enemies, and populate the same map separately with stock enemies, and release them both (also youtube them) for comparison! I will be paying close attention to frame rate, how they navigate, how they collide, and how they animate!

this has me excited.

do not rush to do this, It takes how long it takes, but I think that a true stress test will make for an amazingly capable AI upgrade.
I wish you would elaborate more on what you have/wish to alter about the AI!
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Posted: 9th Apr 2018 12:35 Edited at: 2nd May 2018 09:55
@Bugsy, yeah I believe there will be lots of stress testing. Still much more to do with the AI itself, though I did start a sampler.
Just running the PP 2018, stock basically. Most of the AI in this complex of 5-6 EBE structures and some terrain became mostly idle.
Though as requested I will show that later when the full test level is complete for a run. so far running 15 AI to see what I can break.
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granada
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Posted: 9th Apr 2018 13:30
Just looking at that small vid everything seems sharper and lots of movement,good luck with this I will be waiting to see where this goes nice work.

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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 9th Apr 2018 15:41 Edited at: 9th Apr 2018 15:49
Hi Defy ,
I,m not sure if I am the only one but your video seems to be very dark
and hard to see the details without turning up screen brightness to the max..

This might help..some info on screen setup.....if....it's not just me.


https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219383

Unird12b
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Belidos
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Posted: 9th Apr 2018 17:40 Edited at: 9th Apr 2018 17:41
Are you using a laptop UNIRD12B?

This forum seems to come up dark for pictures and videos in some laptop resolutions. When i play the video above on the forum it's really dark, but when i watch it on the YouTube page it's a lot lighter.

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Posted: 10th Apr 2018 01:45
Maybe your right Belidos ,
On comp is ok but on tablet is quite dark.

Unird12b
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Defy
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Posted: 10th Apr 2018 04:53
@granada, Yeah was a bit short, The full video will be up in a day or so. Will do a run in Stock AI and other. Thanks for your comment.

@UNIRD12B, Greetings, I can see what you mean on another monitor. Thank you for letting me know. I will adjust this.

@Belidos, thank you also for confirming.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 12th Apr 2018 19:41
oh my god the dude rolling out of the doorway was absolutely beyond amazing. this AI seems to really work well!! they seem like they can actually see, and make a fight feel less like walking into a room full of human shaped turrets.

I should film a video with stock AI to see how much this outshines them.

I would really like to see these AI's behavior in a level made of entities, however.
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Posted: 13th Apr 2018 02:01 Edited at: 13th Apr 2018 02:02
High Guy's! Defy, I just want to say that video is very impressive. If we could only have A.I. animations like that. I also like when the A.I.(not in the video) peeks around a corner and shoots. Just revealing his/her weapon. If we could have a selection of different behaviors for our A.I. That's one thing this engine needs. A.I. moving from left to right while spraying bullets from a automatic weapon! That would look pretty cool. Hopping on one leg or holding an arm like they been shot there. I have all kinds of idea's. But, I can't code. I have no time to take it on. Some day maybe. I also wish the video was a little bit longer. That was a tease! Lol Keep up the good work! I'll check back often.
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Defy
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Posted: 14th Apr 2018 03:46 Edited at: 2nd May 2018 10:02
@Bugsy, Thank you, running various simulations has opened many possibilities.

@Blacknyt46, Thank you also. Currently this is all in house, lots still to do. Though I will post progress when I have more, and longer
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Bugsy
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Posted: 14th Apr 2018 09:59
so, is this supposed to be a library for GG for AI scripts? I'm not sure i fully understand. will you be releasing the scripts you used here?

also: will you consider using an entity-only constructed interior? preferrably very detailed.

I have attached a video for comparison (if you do this) with the current default gameguru AI, let's refer to it as "SeaUrchinAI"



their advanced tactical abilities are obvious
Defy
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Posted: 15th Apr 2018 02:16 Edited at: 2nd May 2018 09:59
Hey, Yeah I can try to build a level like this. Don't hold me to reproducing work such as this, Nice environment.
Currently I am not ready, though there will be a release at a much later date. Though while dx11 is being worked on gives me some time.

*Update, finished about 2am. Saved, last backup around 9 pm. went to sleep, Steam update and lost about 4 hours of work, my own fault for not using a backup directory. This was including reloading with a adjustable timer for desired clip size.
Good news is, from starring at the combatcore for 8+ hours, I've almost been able to include it back in within 15mins. So the video today will be delayed by a couple of hours, Sorry.

*Update 2, Good news over this way. Some how I wrote a better condition with detection this morning than all of yesterday.
Now the AI hunt to a certain distance and then hold ground and shoot, reload etc. rather than getting in close proxy to the player when not idle.
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granada
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Posted: 15th Apr 2018 12:08
Sounds like your working hard Defy,I for one will be looking forward to this

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Defy
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Posted: 16th Apr 2018 15:13 Edited at: 11th Jun 2019 02:05

@granada, Cheers. Appreciate it.
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lordjulian
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Posted: 16th Apr 2018 19:46
I liked the way some of the characters made their entrance by rolling.

I noticed the player seemed to get shot through a wall a couple of times suggesting you might have used the EBE.

Nice to see the reload.
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 01:11
@ Defy. Man this is awesome, i love your work. now this is how an Npc must react and hunt you down.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 07:28
this is really sweet!!!!! is this bamber research facility constructed in the most recent video entity constructed? either way, nice looking place. I ask because some of the architecture looks slightly nonsquare
granada
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 11:23
Another good improvement,your getting there Defy

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synchromesh
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 13:15
Love the Bamber facility ... That's cool should be added to GG
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Defy
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 13:24 Edited at: 18th Apr 2018 09:15
Thanks, I would say this part of the facility is 80% EBE 20% Entity. Section is the standard bot run, check for lock up, idle, face wall, so I can test wings with new adjustments. The start of the video was after steam update with a stock combatcore loaded, the wife heard me lol. No adjustments to Npcs range values between takes.

The last AI project I worked on was a 2d side scroller, Drone and Boss mechanics. So the past four weeks has been enjoyable, Passive, aggressive, conversation, reload, no range cap and some others. Combatcore currently sitting at 576 lines. (stock 606 lines). Very hard to see the last weeks work in the video, however now it lets me get into the next part. Avoid. Is it possible, time will tell.
AI in the above video run the same script. This was my original goal. Light, compatible, adjustable and less draw. Though I am working on Melee based, there is still lots to add and test., some people have requested back to wall which is on the white board.

@synchromesh, Thanks. the remaining videos will be located in the Facility.
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Belidos
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 13:39
So when do you think you will put this on the store? I would so pay for this right now!

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Defy
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 16:27 Edited at: 2nd May 2018 09:57
@Belidos, Yeah I'm sure some are wondering what the outcome will be, undecided.
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granada
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 17:49
Quote: "This is for the community, if they want an option to run this"
Thats great thank you ,it’s not always about money

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2018 20:27
great work defy! Really nice
Defy
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Posted: 25th Apr 2018 17:24 Edited at: 2nd May 2018 09:57
Once again please excuse the delay, I had something together about 48 hours since last post. Though as requested I kept going with the test level (Bamber Research Facility)

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granada
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Posted: 25th Apr 2018 17:38
looking good Defy,better every time you post i can see your working hard

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Bugsy
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Posted: 25th Apr 2018 21:00 Edited at: 25th Apr 2018 21:07
EDIT:
*ahem*



this looks excellent! the level reminds me a lot of mirror's edge's final level "the shard" where there is a fight scene in a room with similar architecture. I like how you've used non-right angles and different heights. can you explain how you made this scene a little more? is it all EBE or is it all entities?
Defy
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Posted: 26th Apr 2018 04:13 Edited at: 2nd May 2018 09:58
@Granada, Hey, thanks. Yeah almost every day I work on this since taking it on. And will continue to do so.

@Bugsy, Played Mirrors, many moons ago and that's a cool reference image. I like the roof. I plan to work on more styles in a similar fashion, mixing up designs and spaces. I would have liked to push the space more like your reference though ran out of time.
Though this area is a 60/40 EBE/Entity ratio. I am finding the EBE to be very responsive at the moment with the current AI running.
If you would like a run down here though, let me know and I will explain the level design. Cheers.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 26th Apr 2018 10:02
I would like a rundown.

is the room normaled to the terrain?
how do u move waypoints up to the top hallway???
do floors have to be EBE?
do doors have to be EBE?
what HAS to be EBE constructed or the AI will fail

also:
is the AI to the point where it can actually navigate a simple maze or building to the player? or is this more of a cosmetic upgrade?

can you perhaps do a test where there's less player health? sometimes AI looks really smart when you're paying close attention to its behaviors and the player can't die, but hitscan enemies who in masse will kill you almost instantly on 100 or even 500 health so i'd be interested to see how the AI behaves with a player who takes cover or uses projectile weapons to flush out enemies, or perhaps a player who parkours very heavily on the slanted geometry.

just some more thoughts. sorry to follow this so closely and ask so many nooby questions
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Posted: 28th Apr 2018 18:57 Edited at: 11th Jun 2019 02:06
updated first post
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Defy
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Posted: 30th Apr 2018 00:01 Edited at: 1st May 2018 23:51
*Update - Bugsy reply no longer required.
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granada
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Posted: 30th Apr 2018 00:16
Quote: "Though I am not sure many are interested, maybe GG is fading."

Always interested in better AI Defy great work and thanks

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Defy
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Posted: 30th Apr 2018 01:13 Edited at: 2nd May 2018 10:00
All good my friend. I work with a team that have never used GG before, and of course one of the main questions, example of AI behavior. I started to look at this 2 years ago, though other paid projects got in the way. Anyway, it was my choice to share what I can, most of it I'm sure people already know.

Some users make amazing level designs, scripting, particle effects, inventory, Hud graphics and so on and I admire their work. I myself like to dive into problems lol, well some how I get asked can we have the level reset completely and I'm like
Morning coffee and I think I just worked out a way to maybe use the said building props with nav. I'm 90% sure it wont work, though theres that 10% chance it may, So more later today.
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Bugsy
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Posted: 30th Apr 2018 08:55
if all i need to do is build my floors and walls out of EBE, I can do that. When it comes to entity surfaces, I'll just do invisible EBE floors worst case scenario. I'm just really excited to actually get to try this. It's clear in any case your AI is miles better.
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Posted: 30th Apr 2018 13:40 Edited at: 30th Apr 2018 13:51
No way GG is fading. I'm following your work with interest. We desperately need decent AI. You have taken a good first step towards that.

Please keep sharing.
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Defy
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Posted: 30th Apr 2018 14:31 Edited at: 1st Jun 2018 18:24
The vast amount I have tested, building models (2 openings, may work) found in Stock and Pack media are not compatible and props only *if you have AI located inside the structure and the player is outside. if planning on having a single building in your map to walk around with AI.

@Bugsy, Thanks. .
@lordjulian, Thank you also for your comments.
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Defy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 18:27 Edited at: 7th Jun 2018 12:26
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granada
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Posted: 1st Jun 2018 21:16 Edited at: 1st Jun 2018 21:55
That looks good great reactions,glad your still at it

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Posted: 2nd Jun 2018 14:35
Defy , this is cool man. very nice
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Defy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2018 23:16 Edited at: 4th Jun 2018 05:17
Thanks for feedback.

Currently set as an additional module to stock files, so updating files are avoided.
In process of .fpe files to suit all stock, different options for scene building and options for adjustment by end users.
Next phase completed, navigation to waypoint, hybrid animations on waypoint. Some of this can be seen above and avoid other npc on waypoint, also getting results on navigate to enemy dead body.

Almost finished
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Defy
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Posted: 4th Jun 2018 05:25 Edited at: 7th Jun 2018 12:25
About to jump on plane, Frames steady when AI added to a scene, i noticed AI speed set to 200 now? I guess to speed up lag maybe.
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