Product Chat / I need help..... Baked Lighting - but with many flaws....

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 12:35 Edited at: 13th Nov 2017 11:21
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SOLVED - just read the last post

Hey guys,

Now I tried my best to make my level look great, did all the tips and tricks I know and I am nearly there!
Parts of the scene look wonderful, and then there are those completely distracting objects and the way to bright hand !

Please, do you guys know any solution to this?

The lights are static, I did occlusion lightmapping (F4).

I have to increase surface level in order to get the lighting, but it also makes the objects very bright ( In inside areas , where the sun should not light up anything AT ALL)

I will post some picures to show you what I mean:

You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 16:21 Edited at: 14th Sep 2017 18:26
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These are the settings I use...

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granada
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 16:33
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Someone will jump in here but I seem to remember the thickness of the walls has something to do with the sunlight coming through .

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 17:02 Edited at: 14th Sep 2017 17:52
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uagh.. okay.. im gonna test again in gameguru.


The whole day now, I have been trying everything. Placed gigantic concrete structure above my base, huge houses to cover the sunlight....

NOTHING helped ! In order to show the lighting the surface level has to be way up ! And there comes the ilumination of certain objects like these boxes...
I am done for today. I hope somebody has a solution...
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 19:38
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Alright, there are 2 possibilities.
Either something is broken with your GG or you are doing everything wrong that you could be doing wrong.

Have you been reading through this entire thread here? Please do, in the later part I talk a lot about settings.

Lemme know if there was something helpful and send me a screenshot of your settings and your setup.ini via skype.

Good luck my man!



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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 20:08 Edited at: 14th Sep 2017 20:09
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Dynamic objects cast no shadows with baked lighting if I recall.

Brightness is too high. Bring it down to 50-60. Bring contrast down a little too, I think I use 35.

Surface level is WAY high. Like .. 81? Wow. I think mine is usually set around 35..

Here's an example of some settings I used previously:


All of my lighting tutorials for your review:
http://gamegurureport.blogspot.com/2015/12/technique-evaluation-lighting-in-game.html
http://gamegurureport.blogspot.com/2016/06/technique-evaluation-gameguru-interior.html
http://gamegurureport.blogspot.com/2016/07/technique-evaluation-advanced-lighting.html
http://gamegurureport.blogspot.com/2016/10/technique-trainingevaluation-seriously.html
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 20:11
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thanks guys, I am about to fix it I guess...

Gonna let you know when I know more
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 20:15
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Maybe not the answer but you are using a dark fog at full intensity to create fake 'dark' areas,this might be causing the surface levels in near distance which are unaffected to get blown out. It is also dynamic objects being too well lit and maybe change a few of those static lights to dynamic after baking will help with this. Turn down intensity and range since static lights need higher levels.
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 15th Sep 2017 09:27
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well... I wasnt able to fix it... I read all the tutorials, cut the brightness in half... changed everything. No solution...
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 16th Sep 2017 18:24
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Is there really nobody in the forum that knows about this?
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granada
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Posted: 16th Sep 2017 23:10
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Best fire a email of to lee with your map,he might be able to put you right .

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 16th Sep 2017 23:20
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I did send an email couple of days ago. No response so far.
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Posted: 16th Sep 2017 23:24
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Very busy at the moment,I have never had a email not answered to Lee,might be a idea to wait for the next update.a lot going on at the moment ,the next update might put your problems right .

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Posted: 16th Sep 2017 23:30
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The DX11 could make a difference as Lee will have to rework a lot of the Light mapper ...
I would hold out a little ... Later DX11 should give us unlimited Dynamic lights which will be so much better
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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 02:40
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Unlimited Dynamic lights would be awesome. For me the light-mapper always does something weird that ruins the scene somewhere. It seams I can never get it right - lol.

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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 02:58 Edited at: 17th Sep 2017 03:07
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I could probably help you but I need to see the latest settings you're running. Right now the only thing I can say is your surface level was way high. Try using the settings I recommended. Alternately zip up the map and let me look at it directly.

Also I'm fairly sure at least a good portion of those clutter boxes/canisters/etc are not being affected by lightmapping as they're not set for static.
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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 07:40
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They are all static... THanks guys for the response. For now, I am happy with real time lighting. I strechted the level a bit, so that the transition from one light to another is a bit smoother.

I will just wait for DX11 - Thanks guys
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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 12:21
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Baking is not great for indoor scenes I've had problems as well. It's a shame as they can look pretty good, but I ended up forgetting baking and just using real-time lighting as you have. It's just too much of a guessing process as to how it will turn out. Certainly never looks anything like the real-time scene either, which is the point I suppose, but it would be nice if it was at least semi close to being WISIWIG. I can safely say I have abandoned bakes many times in the past because of some issue it has caused. The map size also goes up dramatically when baked so generally I do the best I can in real-time. It's a shame as when it works it normally works well.

DX11 will hopefully give us more options for real-time to look better hopefully. It may be that baking gets a face lift at some point also, to better suit DX11.
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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 12:31
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Yeah, I never used baked lighting myself, ive just never managed to get it to come out right. I'm really hoping that with the DX11 update we'll be able to use a lot more dynamic lights, having just the three flicking on and off as you move in and out of range is annoying.

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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 12:52 Edited at: 17th Sep 2017 12:53
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totally right DVader. I personally cant wait for the DX11 update.


Quote: "I'm really hoping that with the DX11 update we'll be able to use a lot more dynamic lights, having just the three flicking on and off as you move in and out of range is annoying."


EXACTLY
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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 13:15
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Lighting for me is one of the main aspects that differentiates Unreal eta al from Game Guru. It is strikingly more effective and of course you can have as many lights as you want; too many will slow things of course, but you have that option. I have been asking for better lighting for ages. As far as I'm concerned it is the next thing that should be worked on, once the DX11 version is finalised and PBR is added completely. Those PBR visuals will look way better with some fancy light sources around Although I fear once we have PBR and some example models, our library of Default, DLC and store assets will suddenly become almost unusable, at least if you plan on using any of the PBR ones. Even now there is a vast difference between the Classic stuff and the Sci-fi DLC and stuff in-between. PBR will give us another quality level above all of them.

Still, the main thing is Game Guru is finally being modernised DX9 is somewhat old now.
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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 13:55
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Quote: "DX9 is somewhat old now."


That is certainly right, but I've seen DX9 games with stunning visuals as well.
The dircect X version is only one part of many.. I fully agree with you, lighting is very important. Let's just hope gameguru will make it there.
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Posted: 17th Sep 2017 15:39
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Quote: "I've seen DX9 games with stunning visuals as well. "

Of course. But they are highly optimised to suit each game. Game Guru being more of a general game maker needs as much oomph as possible and DX11 will give that out the box in comparison to DX9. It takes into account more modern hardware and supports it directly, so faster frame rates will be apparent. Anything that can utilise a video cards hardware to do the most of the work will always be faster. Video cards do much more now than they did when DX9 was prevalent. Plus it gives better multi-core support, which didn't even exist back when DX9 was the game standard.

DX11 is the best move GG has made in years.
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 19th Sep 2017 19:29
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After many hours of testing I found out the following things:

EBE structures may cause problems with baked lighting. It simply won't draw ANY shadows sometimes.

Some assets will not cause shadows to be drawn as well. For example the classic/sci fi stuff is not working with baked lighting at all.
It stays the same like in realtime lighting.

Only fix right now is just not to use EBE structures and certain stock assets of gg.
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Posted: 19th Sep 2017 19:52 Edited at: 19th Sep 2017 19:53
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Quote: "EBE structures may cause problems with baked lighting. It simply won't draw ANY shadows sometimes."


yes this issue amongst others led me to put my game on hold I started back in Feb but had too many issues so put it on hold https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/217462

I am hoping DX11 will allow me to revisit The Site
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Posted: 19th Sep 2017 21:49
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Can you send me a small FPM level with an EBE you created that does not lightmap and can include it in my DX11 light mapping tests to ensure it works for the next update, thanks!
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2017 00:41 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2017 00:42
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So I was able to recreate your problem and I believe you found a bug.
Basically long story short here is that it's mapping the sun DESPITE whatever your shadow settings/sun factor are set to. As such every scene ends up with a sun shadow for objects despite having provisions to avoid it.

Picture proof: https://imgur.com/a/PK4Wi

I emailed Lee on it, here's to hoping we get some kind of fix, though I suspect it may wait till after DX11.

IN THE MEANTIME.

The fix would be to use large static lights close to the objects to remove shadows you don't want. It's a crappy fix but I can verify it does work.
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2017 05:56
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hmm very interesting. Thank you. Will check it out after work today.
You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

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Find some my work onYoutube:
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2017 16:43
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I have noticed putting my level inside a large cube occasionally works to cancel the sun. you have to make sure you don't accidentally make it too big though. you could also always do a thick (but one sided) wall right above where the player can reach
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2017 17:47
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Quote: "I have noticed putting my level inside a large cube occasionally works to cancel the sun."


okay.. Thank you for the advice. Would you be so kind and post a picture of that? I would like to see how it's done...
You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

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Find some my work onYoutube:
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Posted: 24th Sep 2017 19:09
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see attached. the cube has faces on the inside. If an outdoor area is done, a custom skydome is used
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Posted: 24th Sep 2017 22:45
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Give this a try. I am on the beta team and could not get thru a bake session yet.
Hollow Cube with no bottom with a 90% black texture. Place and scale as needed.
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Posted: 25th Sep 2017 06:34
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Quote: "Hollow Cube with no bottom with a 90% black texture. Place and scale as needed."


Awesome ! Thank you myke !
You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

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Posted: 25th Sep 2017 06:41
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I just noticed i forgot to attach my thing to my post. I think the thing outta auto-attach if you click browse and select a file... seems only sensible...
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Posted: 25th Sep 2017 07:40
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Your welcome.
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Posted: 25th Sep 2017 09:55
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You can also change the slider in the TAB TAB menu called "Surface Sun Factor" and "Shadows" to zero, which will remove the effect of shadows and lighting influence from the sun direction, though your own technique can be just as effective if a little time-consuming. As GameGuru is an 'out of the box' experience, you will find that control over lighting will be limited in comparison to tools such as Unreal which would give you ultimate control of everything, but of course at the cost of more time in the editor. As part of my research into PBR, I was pretty shocked at the process of applying a single texture to a model in Unreal, and the stages required to create something worthy of running in-game. It really demonstrated the see-saw effect of quality vs complexity.
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Posted: 25th Sep 2017 15:46
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Quote: "You can also change the slider in the TAB TAB menu called "Surface Sun Factor" and "Shadows" to zero, which will remove the effect of shadows and lighting influence from the sun direction"


Unfortunately that did not help... can be seen in the video I posted.

Quote: "
As GameGuru is an 'out of the box' experience, you will find that control over lighting will be limited in comparison to tools such as Unreal which would give you ultimate control of everything, but of course at the cost of more time in the editor"

Exactly. And thats why I love gameguru. INSTANT results.
You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

Windows 10 64bit - Intel Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 8,0 GB Ram, Geforce GTX 1050ti
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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 26th Sep 2017 10:41
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I have added some more controls for the next update which gives you more control over the sun when lightmapping, so you can effectively switch it off. This would remove all shadows cast from the sun when baking your scenes, and allow the static lights to rule over your level.
PC SPECS: Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit, Intel Core i7-5930K (PASSMARK:13645), NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980 GPU (PASSMARK:9762) , 32GB RAM

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 26th Sep 2017 11:10
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Quote: "This would remove all shadows cast from the sun when baking your scenes, and allow the static lights to rule over your level."


Thank you so much. This will really help a lot of people I think. AWESOME !
You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

Windows 10 64bit - Intel Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 8,0 GB Ram, Geforce GTX 1050ti
Find some my work onYoutube:
(Music Channel) The German Music Dude: https://www.youtube.com/user/DeutscherVolker
(Games and Mods Channel ) DK Productions: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIqwvScXnJL_zNYqSsfTCqA



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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 26th Sep 2017 19:22
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Quote: "I have added some more controls for the next update "


When will this be? Is it bevore the DX11 update?
You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

Windows 10 64bit - Intel Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 8,0 GB Ram, Geforce GTX 1050ti
Find some my work onYoutube:
(Music Channel) The German Music Dude: https://www.youtube.com/user/DeutscherVolker
(Games and Mods Channel ) DK Productions: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIqwvScXnJL_zNYqSsfTCqA



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Bugsy
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Posted: 26th Sep 2017 19:53
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lee wrote: " I was pretty shocked at the process of applying a single texture to a model in Unreal, and the stages required to create something worthy of running in-game."


i've found getting custom media into gameguru and unreal engine take a pretty similar amount of time even for an untrained user, some things actually a little faster in unreal. gameguru's inability to change an objects texture in editor (like FPSC could) doesnt help user friendliness either
Hire Me! I model, animate, cook, clean, and texture!
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 27th Sep 2017 11:16
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Any improvements I might mention will be part of the DX11 update, there is no easy way to apply singular changes to an earlier build without maintaining two code paths, and I tend to avoid that as much as possible these days.
PC SPECS: Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit, Intel Core i7-5930K (PASSMARK:13645), NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980 GPU (PASSMARK:9762) , 32GB RAM

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 27th Sep 2017 12:19
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sure. No Problem. I just wanted to know when. Dont rush it. We can wait.
You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

Windows 10 64bit - Intel Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 8,0 GB Ram, Geforce GTX 1050ti
Find some my work onYoutube:
(Music Channel) The German Music Dude: https://www.youtube.com/user/DeutscherVolker
(Games and Mods Channel ) DK Productions: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIqwvScXnJL_zNYqSsfTCqA



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Duchenkuke
GameGuru VBOTB Developer
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Posted: 13th Nov 2017 11:21
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PROBLEM SOLVED - just read this thread
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/218921
You know you watched too many of Lee's Live Brodcasts when you're at work and have an earwig from his twitch intro music....

By the way, I am a Modder, Soundtrack Composer and now Game Developer. Well, sort of.

Windows 10 64bit - Intel Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 8,0 GB Ram, Geforce GTX 1050ti
Find some my work onYoutube:
(Music Channel) The German Music Dude: https://www.youtube.com/user/DeutscherVolker
(Games and Mods Channel ) DK Productions: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIqwvScXnJL_zNYqSsfTCqA



PM Email Website
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