Feature Creep / Standalone Multiplayer

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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 21st Aug 2017 18:59 Edited at: 21st Aug 2017 19:06
Hi all, while I've been waiting for the new dx11 to be implemented apart from playing a MMO I've been pondering on this standalone multiplayer, after checking the voting board i see its 5th behind a couple of things that are pretty much in GG anyway so its in a way alittle bit of a wasted vote tbh well in my opinion e,g top vote Ally characters (smallg's already done this pretty much) swimming (think this has been done by cybernescence well the npc's at least)
I've seen quite a few posts wanting the implementation of a locally hosted server and on futher thinking thought it'd maybe be a nice use of quite a few of my own maps and im sure im not alone here so cummon guys get the votes in and pump it up the list (ive put mine in which has brought it up 1
What do you guys think? be nice to have say a lobby with maps for 16 or more players maybe? and if its ran locally wouldnt scripts then be able to be used?
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smallg
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Posted: 21st Aug 2017 19:43
shouldnt the board be reset after the next update is started anyway so technically it could still go up or down?

the ally update would be a nice update just so we can get more access to the gun system - such as using the stock bullet code for detecting hits and being able to fire at more than just the player, along with getting characters to swap weapons in game.
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Belidos
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Posted: 21st Aug 2017 20:53
Quote: "shouldnt the board be reset after the next update is started anyway so technically it could still go up or down?"


Yup, once DX11 is done, the next in line will be started and the voting board reset, so anything could come up next. I also have a feeling Lee may do some other minor bits alongside each update, i'm sure he mentioned something like that a while back.

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Len the man
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Posted: 21st Aug 2017 20:56 Edited at: 21st Aug 2017 21:02
I love all the ideas here...

I thought multiplayer was about 20 items down a few days ago... I'm not sure what happened, but I like it moving up to #5.
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granada
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Posted: 21st Aug 2017 21:10
Quote: "I also have a feeling Lee may do some other minor bits alongside each update, i'm sure he mentioned something like that a while back."

Your right he did,I think he realises a few things need fixing like Ai and other bits .as for the voting,I have seen a few new names pop up lately so that might account for that.

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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2017 12:08 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2017 12:11
Yeah agree with the AI votes kinda a biggie those, just been messing with a couple of games which have thier own servers built in and it does acually add quite a nice dimention to them, which then made me think how nice an addition it would be to GG especially if we could run scripts on them would open it up quite alot i would have thought.
@ Len think theres quite a few people wanting to have a bash at a multiplayer maybe thats why, personally i was thinking along the lines of a social or non pvp kinda crafting multiplayer when it gets added sounds kinda a fun one to do and i have just the city map to test it on lol
@smallg ahh thats why its up there then thanks for clarifying
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OldFlak
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2017 14:30
Hi all

I have never been able to get even a simple map working in multiplayer. For me at least, multiplayer just does not work

So yeah I guess a stand-alone multiplayer would be good, but you would first need to get multiplayer working.

Reliquia....
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DVader
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2017 16:23
I hate multi-player, no guessing where my vote won't be. I also can't really see it going far from what it is at the moment in terms of player count ( not much chance of it increasing) and actual stuff you can do (scripts).

Really, the engine needs to be finished first. Not just added to and then onto the next thing. That is the reason GG is in the state it's in today. Not enough time spent on the right things or too much time spent on the wrong things; take your pick. There's soo many issues with GG, please lets get them fixed before we start asking for more new features!

I would hate to be in Lee's shoes with GG. Having a voting board decide the direction of coding, voted on mostly by non coders. I know even with simple projects (by comparison) getting the code done in the correct order helps massively. If you jump to a feature ahead of time you generally find yourself back at that code with each little update you make. It's far better to leave that code completely until your main engine is ready and has far less chance of major changes. It certainly saves time, which Lee is has limited amounts to spare.

By all means multi-player needs improvement, but when it comes down to the crunch, a multi-player standalone is very, very unlikely given it's need for Steam. Making a standalone multiplayer without steams api will not only take TGC a long time it will still be a client server system and so pretty old hat by today's standards. TGC aren't likely to provide a server for this sort of thing; not practical at all. Really, multi-player is so out of GG's league I find it a distraction. This is coming from someone who has supported TGC from the start of the century I have seen several multi-player attempts, none were good or easy to use. GG using Steam, is in fact the best they have managed to date (due to using Steam's api).

I would prefer attention to things that are more useful myself. Get single player working before worrying about anything else.
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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2017 22:27 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2017 10:12
@ Dvader really? looking at Torque which i still use abit from time to time and game wise Emperion Galactic survival (love this game) with both it seemed to be added pretty quickly so i was under the impression it wasnt such a massive thing ( but im guessing here ) , Just was thinking along the lines of playing with freinds and family etc so i would think the odd bug they could just chuck a cup at me type thing lol
@ reliquia i havent tried the steam multiplayer m8 as i thought with a locally hosted server i would have more control
I do think it wouldnt over complicate the coding though as such just give us the abuility to share gameplay with people we know.
wouldnt scripts work on a locally hosted server? I thought they didnt work at present because the server sofware is hosted by steam? e.g not on your own P.C and thats why they didnt work?
Unreal Tornement how long has that been going now? if you like your FPS shooter multiplayer that kinda shows how long it lasts if you get it right Jedi Knight! lol again people still play these even with the old graphics
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DVader
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2017 14:23
Yes, I hate multiplayer; Unreal Tournament being one of my hated games. It was the first game to push multi-player as the only thing it did, no single player. I have never liked games like that, they just seem repetitive and boring and above all lazy. I am a fan of story lines and single player games really. Jedi Knight had a good single player game so I liked that, but the multi-player? Hated it. I own GTA 5. Have I ever played the online bit, nope.

I agree that multiplayer shouldn't take that much for a pro programmer, but in reality TGC have never got this right in the past. There's always issues with firewalls and such. Steam avoids that. Perhaps things have changed now, but I wouldn't hold my breath. For me to have any interest in multi-player there would have to be a lot more than Unreal type games which bore me within 30 seconds. Even then I doubt I would take an interest. Generally I feel multi-player experiences, even more modern ones like Rust are generally ruined by people, lol. I mean by the looks of Rust, you build a small little base and such, but when you log back in, bye bye base and all your supplies, that kinda sucks big time in my opinion. Thankfully I never bought it back when I was tempted, it would have been a complete waste of cash as I would have stopped playing it as soon as that happened more than once.

I still think that storyline and pace are important and with multi-player games you just don't get that at all.

Obviously I know there are many who do like multi-player for reasons that elude me; I can understand people wanting multi-player standalone. I just can't see it being as simple as it is on Steam at present. I still think the single player stuff should be solid before too much work is put into the online part. I guess I just want it working properly for it's intended purpose first, multi-player was only an addition to it's core.
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smallg
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2017 15:07
I can't see TGC hosting a server but I see no reason why they can't add support for you to host your own (or on a paid server etc), its not really a problem for ports and such nowadays, most servers will just automatically handle that stuff in the background.

I'd like to see the steam multiplayer made more friendly for us to edit too though, its a good platform and offers a lot of features you would need to code yourself for local servers.
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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2017 22:02
@ DVader i do agree with you m8 on the boring bit i got bored with it after 5 mins as im not into the run around shooting people thing myself more a nice quest/crafting game so i can just plod along at my own pace, but it has stood the test of time.
The main reason for me mentioning a standalone server was precicly that if that is you could run scripts on it of course. That way you get to choose who you have on the server and have as many or as little as you wish e.g Empyrion great game but if you play on the main servers = too many idiot wanna be hard cases trying to prove themselves guess thats the same with rust never played it for that reason, but i used to play Emperion with my daughter on our own which was really cool and at a pace we wanted which made the whole experience alot better for us both.
So i do totally get you here just would like to see it in for those reasons doesnt have to be a massive public server just a little local one maybe even good for testing over your own network
@ smallg dont think I'd go down the steam server thing myself m8 as sometimes playing over a local server is enough for me but thats just my thing although opening it up for udp/tcip would of course enable your mates to play from their own house which is cool, think the steam servers are just as you said abit too limiting when it comes to who does what and adding your own mods/scripts.
Think just a nice simple basic server / client for us to start with would be wicked and also would give Lee chance to see how it fairs.
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DVader
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Posted: 25th Aug 2017 15:46
I'm not against it completely, just think the main single player experience needs to be more complete first. If you could make a multi-player game that had co-operative play and use scripts other then the basic multi-player ones at the moment, so it was more a you and friends against the computer it would be of more interest. I think they did a Resident Evil game like that, it didn't do well, but the idea sounded good initially at least, if not how they implemented it.
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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 25th Aug 2017 23:00
Yeah m8 it does just been putting together a new idea which is a medieval/fantasy mainly crafting/gathering/hunting based which is coming along nicely lighting still needs some tlc as it pops :/ still playing with that we'll have to see i supose what the dx11 upgrade brings and hopefully Lee might chuck in a couple of extras for us to play with
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Belidos
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Posted: 26th Aug 2017 01:08
I'm with DVader on this, for me multiplayer has no interest for me at all, even though to be honest my original drive to buy a game engine was because I wanted to make my own MMO, which I quickly realized was a pipe dream no matter what engine I used, and I will continue to have no interest in multiplayer until such time as the base engine is to a standard where I feel multiplayer can be added properly with a chance to actually reach its potential.

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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 28th Aug 2017 21:49 Edited at: 28th Aug 2017 22:12
DVader in that instance didnt say he was totally against it m8 just that he would like to see single player more complete which i do agree with, as with you i loved the idea of an MMO and agree thats abit far fetched with the smaller engines, but a simple client/server would be nice just to get say 8-16 bods on so you could maybe play in little groups/family/freinds. Yes it may not be the most popular item on the list but when ive looked in the multiplayer section it seems pretty popular in there and why not?
It'd be a nice little addon with some extra fun to play options. Now only Lee i would presume would know if this is an easy thing to implement or whether its going to be a time consuming bind. My personal view here after making a few projects was just that it would be a nice way to test and or just play any project within a closer circle and be able to have that little bit more control of what goes and who plays.
It i think will open GG up alittle to those guys that do want to have contol over thier Multiplayer deathmatch etc etc so i just think it'd be a nice addition not a waste of time thats all m8
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Belidos
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Posted: 28th Aug 2017 23:18
Quote: "DVader in that instance didnt say he was totally against it m8 just that he would like to see single player more complete "


That's exactly what I just said lol

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Bugsy
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Posted: 30th Aug 2017 05:26
huge fan of the idea of standalone multiplayer, or at very least a free ganeguru multiplayer app that can be downloaded and used to download/play GG multiplayer maps for non GG users. Common game mode support would be a great addition as well (demolition/CTF/King of the Hill)
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Posted: 30th Aug 2017 23:03
Yay im not alone lol
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synchromesh
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 02:46
Quote: "Yup, once DX11 is done, the next in line will be started and the voting board reset,"

Hmm Not quite .... The board is reset after each update has been released and then you get the chance for a fresh vote ..
what you see now is just an idea on how it may go ...
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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 22:01
Well hopefully m8 people might see the fun in a standalone multiplayer although i havent had much interest in it before when i look at my maps some of them would make wicked multiplayer maps and if by having them based on our own machines we could run scripts = sounds like some fun to me thats why i like the idea if we can host our own surley we should be able to run scripts? p.s i did watch the vids of you guys playing multiplayer heh my galaxy map would be wicked
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Len the man
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Posted: 16th Sep 2017 20:03
I would love stand-alone multiplayer and the game app... and I love a lot of what Dvader didn't like (like Unreal tournament)... LOL... However I could also see a good game having both single player and multiplayer. I think Quake 2 and Jedi Knight had both, if I'm not mistaken.

Either way... I hope you all have a great day...
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synchromesh
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Posted: 20th Sep 2017 22:19
Personally I'm not against Multiplayer standalone ...
It would be fun and I have ideas but the main boost for me is ... It would probably only take Lee hours rather than weeks and its another off the list
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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 20th Sep 2017 22:27
so not a long job then you think? I've actually been reading up on Lua client/server scripting but implementing it i would have no idea about :/ but the scripts dont look overly complicted
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Belidos
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Posted: 20th Sep 2017 23:11
What's the point of a multiplayer standalone if multiplayer doesn't work properly in the first place? Lee needs to get multiplayer working properly before adding to it.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 21st Sep 2017 00:09 Edited at: 21st Sep 2017 00:10
Quote: "so not a long job then you think? I've actually been reading up on Lua client/server scripting but implementing it i would have no idea about :/ but the scripts dont look overly complicted"

To be honest I was referring to the steam app for MP standalone and Non GG owners to play as well.... For starters anyway
I think Lee said once he could do that in less than a day ...
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warlock12
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2017 03:24
I humbly left my opinion ... let's see what the reality is in the game world right now. Multiplayers are becoming more important, the game in a social way, the relationship with others in virtual environments is becoming more powerful day by day ... communities are generated that go beyond the encounter in the game, with forums, fanpages and formal websities. It is being discovered that it is as important to "play to ..." as to "play with ..." and games become more interesting when developing with friends (even if they are only virtual). So I agree with those who consider that the need to have a good (and isolated from GG) is one of the strong points to consider. I do not know if it is difficult to achieve or complicated for Lee ... but if GG is intended to climb more levels as to the top of game engines ... a robust multiplayer, allowing more than shots, is really something that is needed to deliver products according to the times that we live. Let's not get carried away by our way of thinking or our preferences ... let's see the video game market ... if we see in GG anything more than a Hobbye software for its owner. We think of products ??? Let's look at the market and how it unfolds ..
A big greeting to all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humildemente dejo mi opinión... veamos cual es la realidad en el mundo del game en estos momentos. Los multiplayers estan cada vez siendo mas importantes, el juego de forma social, la relación con otros en entornos virtuales se hace día a día más poderosos... se generan comunidades que van más allá del encuentro en el game, con foros, fanpages y websities formales. Se está descubriendo que es tan importante "jugar a..." como "jugar con..." y las partidas se vuelven más interesantes cuando se desarrollan con amigos (aunque sean solamente virtuales). Por ello concuerdo con aquellos que consideran que la necesidad de tener una buena (y aislada de GG) es uno de los puntos fuertes a considerar. Desconozco si es difícil lograrlo o complicado para Lee... pero si se pretende que GG escale más niveles en cuanto al top de game engines... un multiplayer robusto, que permita algo mas que disparos, es realmente algo que hace falta para entregar productos acordes con los tiempos que nos toca vivir. No nos dejemos llevar por nuestra forma de pensar o nuestras preferencias... veamos el mercado del videogame... si es que vemos en GG algo más que un software de Hobbye para su propietario. Pensamos en productos??? Miremos el mercado y como se desenvuelve..
Un gran saludo a todos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The game is a serious thing (El juego es una cosa seria)

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