Website/Forum Feedback / [Discussion] Product Chat has become a mess but how do we fix it?

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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 8th Jul 2017 10:55
what happened to people just using good old fashioned common sense , did it die a death or something?
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 8th Jul 2017 12:50
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DVader
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Posted: 9th Jul 2017 13:34 Edited at: 9th Jul 2017 13:39
Quote: "Here's an idea, lets just get rid of ALL the boards and just have 'Product chat' then we don't have to change a thing and everyone can be happy."

In honesty it wouldn't make a lot of difference in reality. There just aren't that many posts on any of the other boards. But sarcasm aside, it would be a little OTT.
Quote: "I guess if we Renamed " Product chat " to " General chat " and left it at the top. Then created a new Category called " Product Discussion " nearer the bottom"

Why and how? Users will still see the most popular board and post on it. It will just shift the problem (not that I really think there is a massive problem).

We have many categories already, adding more is not the solution. As I said above I think the opposite should be the case.

Here are the main forum llistings, I'm ignoring all boards under multi-player. The list is still long. I also include how often I think I have visited each this year.

Product Chat Every visit
Third Party Tools Rare
GameGuru Store Rare
3rd Party Models/Media Chat Rare
Free Models and Media Rare
Easy Building Editor Rare
Scripts Rare
Work In Progress Rare
Showcase Never
Bug Reports Never
Feature Creep Never
Competitions Rare
Virtual Reality Never
Multiplayer Never
Multiplayer Work In Progress Never
Multiplayer Showcase Never

Now I don't visit as often as I did by any means, but even when I did, this would still be fairly relevant. Now reducing these down is the way to go, NOT adding more. The more you add the worse it will become and the most visited section will remain the most visited section, with other sections still having far fewer visits and posts.

I would suggest converging all the multi-player stuff into one board. WIP and showcase stuff really don't need their own boards. Just let people add them to the normal WIP and showcase boards. I mean there aren't that many posts in either of them.

Virtual Reality as I already said is a nonsense board. We don't even have that option anymore and haven't for a long time. Even if we did it's not really needed. So that's another board to go.

I don't think we need both models boards, just one or the other, probably 3rd Party Models/Media Chat. Free models can go into that board? Can't see why not.

Competitions is also something that is so rarely used as to be another candidate to be removed.

The rest need to re ordered in a more useful way.

Product Chat.
Easy Building Editor.
Scripts
3rd Party Models/Media Chat
Multiplayer
Third Party Tools

Work In Progress
Showcase

GameGuru Store
Bug Reports
Feature Creep

That's a start. It wouldn't solve the issue, but it may make the boards easier to navigate. I think feature creep should be called Feature requests or a similar name, feature creep just doesn't describe it properly.
I would suggest a Novice Questions board myself, as the majority of people posting on product chat are novices with questions. A tutorials board and finally a demo board for small demo's rather than games.

That's my opinion anyway. Reduce the categories down a tad, then add one or two in to help people avoid posting in product chat as the only choice.
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Wolf
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Posted: 9th Jul 2017 13:51 Edited at: 9th Jul 2017 13:52
Good call DVader.
I'll ponder this and try to come up with a better concept than we currently have. this whole thing is still very much a work in progress.
I also find it frustrating how little feedback the game WiPs get. I mean, thats the whole point of GG...making games... and Avenging Eagles "Extraction Point" has not yet crossed the 1000 views mark despite being very impressive.

I would bet money that there are active members on this forum that have no idea what can be done with GG as they never saw Cybernescences or Dimoxinils thread.

I believe we could also loose the foreign language board as all our foreign members hold up very well with english.



-Wolf
DVader
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Posted: 9th Jul 2017 15:23
Perhaps a good way to showcase exceptional WIP threads would be to have a message pop up like we have already with News updates. So a brief description about the game with an image and make it link to the thread. That way, everyone would at least see them and consider having a look. Perhaps once a week or month. You could extend this to tutorials or demos as well.
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Teabone
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Posted: 9th Jul 2017 15:37 Edited at: 9th Jul 2017 17:13
Here is how the forums should look:

Game Guru

News and Announcements
Game Guru - General Discussion
Tutorials
Multiplayer
LUA Scripting

Community Creations

Showcase
Work In Progress
Models and Media
3rd Party Tools
TGC Store

Support

Bug Reports
Feature Requests
Website/Forum Feedback
Closed Beta Discussions

Off Topic

General Chat
Video Games Chat


-----------------------------------------

- Change Section Title "GameGuru" to "Game Guru"
- Change "Product Chat" to "Game Guru - General Discussion"

The word "product" feels like a constant reminder that this is just a financial endeavor by TGC when I see the word product anywhere. "Game Guru - General Discussion" is much more inviting and follows more of standard forum structural practice.

- Remove "Competitions" and "Virtual Reality" topics

There is not much activity there for them to have their own topics. Competition threads should be moved to "News and Announcements". Virtual Reality threads should be moved to "Game Guru - General Discussion".

- Remove "Multiplayer Showcase" and "Multiplayer WIP"

With topics a year old this is clearly not a section that needs 3 topics. Merge all threads in all 3 topics to "Multiplayer".

- Change "Scripts" to "LUA Scripting"

"Scripts" suggests that this is a place to request for "scripts". Change it to LUA Scripting to suggest its more of a discussion place for LUA related topics.

Having a "Community Creation" section i feel would be more engaging and more motivating. Plus it be higher up on the board and help promote community work.

EBE unfortunately only has 12 threads within it. So perhaps its best to keep it in the Game Guru - General Discussion but maybe use [EBE] tagging.

- Merge "3rd Party Models/Media Chat" and "Free Models and Media" into "Models and Media"

Models and Media should be a combination of free assets and paid and a place for experimentation. Maybe free assets should have a tag [FREE] or at least clearly mentioned in the original post.

- Add Tutorials topic

With a tutorials topic you can add all of the recorded streams and the community can also contribute as well. Also having a pinned tutorial request thread would be incredibly helpful.

Off Topic could span into two topic sections. One to talk about anything unrelated to Game Guru and one to talk about video games in general. An off topic video game topic should help inspire others and be a good way to allow for people outside of the community to have a place to jump in and talk about gaming. Do not put the "Off Topic" near the top of the forums. Its not a good idea.

News and Announcements should be a place for mods and TGC staff to post updates to Game Guru the engine and website and forum updates. Better to have this out in the open instead of inside pinned in general chat.

Having everything streamlined like this will encourage people to actually scroll down rather than jump into the top most topic. Especially if you have a section devoted to the "community creations". Trust me.
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Wolf
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Posted: 9th Jul 2017 16:21
Thats a nice layout teabone, my biggest gripe is the multiplayer board in the GG section. My proposal would be to remove the multiplayer boards all together. A mutliplayer project can simply have [MP] in the title.
Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 9th Jul 2017 16:57
Quote: "Avenging Eagles "Extraction Point" has not yet crossed the 1000 views mark despite being very impressive."


That's very kind of you, Wolf, thank you
I can personally vouch for about 700 of those views and it's literally just been me eagerly checking my thread for new posts haha!

I like Teabone's list too, but agree with Wolf that multiplayer could be removed. If you really wanted to trim the fat, you could cut it down to:

General
Game Guru Discussion
Knowledge base/tutorials
Off-topic/Geek culture

Game Creation
Models and Media (All threads prefixed by [Free], [TGC Store], [Pack] or [3rd Party]. Also contains sticky to the external TGC Store forum)
LUA Scripting
Tools and EBE
Work In Progress (All threads prefixed by [SP], [MP] or both)
Showcase (All threads prefixed by [SP], [MP] or both)

Feed Back
Bug Reports (Containing sticky on Closed Beta discussions)
Website/Forum Feedback
Feature Creep

New and announcement could be handled in a sticky in the Game Guru Discussion board...but what would be even better would be a carousel of recent news stories and announcements AND showcase banners of newly released GG games that cycle automatically in the spot currently occupied by the 'GAMEGURU LATEST NEWS' banner (which is only infrequently updated). This would make it the first thing users see, and help promote our finished games a bit more.

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Posted: 9th Jul 2017 17:06 Edited at: 9th Jul 2017 17:56
Quote: "Why and how? Users will still see the most popular board and post on it"

Exactly ... If I changed it to to " General chat " 3 days ago and added a new " Product Discussion " at the bottom I will bet no one would have noticed .. They would still be clicking the top one and posting without really looking at the header

Call me sceptical but I think product chat needs renaming and moving to have any real desired effect ..
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JonRobbo
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Posted: 10th Jul 2017 13:05
Quote: "The problem I have found when posting anything is that the other boards get no real views in comparison."


Post in Bods mods free models thread, it has over 19,000 views and he's left game guru so it won't get used much, everyone loves a freebie
Preben
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Posted: 14th Jul 2017 09:23
I liked the old "Product Chat" , i really miss the quick overview when you just login to see what have been going on.

Perhaps a new board called "All Boards" could be made to give the latest post from ALL boards ? , this way it really dont matter in what board the post is listed, it will get the same exposure.

There is way to little people around here to have 20+ boards , it just makes the boards/forum look dead.


best regards Preben Eriksen,
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Posted: 14th Jul 2017 15:11 Edited at: 14th Jul 2017 15:12
Yeah, I have to agree with Preben - we don't need more categories - we need less. Anything posted in the other boards is either answered by one or two people at most, or not at all.

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Teabone
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Posted: 14th Jul 2017 16:41 Edited at: 14th Jul 2017 16:42
I gave my solution. This is more about psychological than anything else. Back to the GG sanbox I go.
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Errant AI
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Posted: 17th Jul 2017 18:50
Quote: "Perhaps a new board called "All Boards" could be made to give the latest post from ALL boards ? , this way it really dont matter in what board the post is listed, it will get the same exposure."


Just sayin...


A lot of interesting points of view have been given so far. We appreciate the suggestions and insights.

Showcasing work in PC may be good for getting some extra views but it really isn't fair to others with interesting things to show who have been keeping to the appropriate boards. Likewise, using PC for bug reports or feature creep isn't really helpful because they don't get logged/handled in the same way as they would when placed on the correct boards. Traffic may currently be low on some of the other boards but if GG continues to grow and improve, this will increase over time. Currently, GG usage is at a relative low-point. We should expect user base to come up again after the DX11 updates with old users returning and new ones being attracted.

We realize that using the forums as they were intended may be an inconvenience to some but it works out better in the long run because it makes it easier to find threads relevant to board topics for newcomers and users returning from a hiatus. As it currently sits, the PC board should really only be for discussions about official updates, DLC and newcomer product questions. It's also fair to discuss general how-to type things relating to the stock product.

This thread will remain here a bit before shuffling it off to forum feedback. If any changes happen, it won't be until after this month. Mods and staff need to reach a consensus before moving forward with any changes though and that could take a while. Personally, I agree that there are many boards which could be merged or omitted. I also feel that some boards are better split up or rearranged. Regardless, please continue to post new threads in the boards most suitable and expect misplaced threads to be moved by mods without notification.
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Am I one of the mess??? You should have a board of Mess Posting and Free Ban Post Board lol....
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Posted: 18th Jul 2017 22:17
Where do I find that 'latest thread' summary that Errant posted about?

Must be somewhere obvious but I can't see it Or is it a mod only thing?

Cheers.

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Posted: 18th Jul 2017 22:32
It doesn't exist yet, it's an idea he had.

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cybernescence
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Posted: 18th Jul 2017 22:41
OK. The way it was phrased 'Just sayin...' and what looked like a screen shot made me think the suggestion Preben made already existed.

Cheers.
Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 18th Jul 2017 23:05
Quote: "It doesn't exist yet, it's an idea he had."


Erm, yeah it does. Literally on the front page of the forum (https://forum.game-guru.com/), it's the right most column.

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Belidos
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Posted: 18th Jul 2017 23:14 Edited at: 18th Jul 2017 23:15
Quote: "Erm, yeah it does. Literally on the front page of the forum (https://forum.game-guru.com/), it's the right most column."


I mean what the guy he was quoting is talking about.

Also, that gets messed up, and doesn't update all the time, mainly when a thread is moved, or deleted.

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Posted: 18th Jul 2017 23:55
Ah right - thought it might be right in front of my face .

That shows last latest post in each board (subject to cache refreshing) rather than all posts I haven't seen regardless of board, which is what I think Preben suggested and I liked the sound of. Other forums have this - list of all posts not read in one area.

Thanks.

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Posted: 19th Jul 2017 01:44 Edited at: 19th Jul 2017 01:44
Yeah, I was referring to the righthand column. Nowhere did Preben specify that such listing should filter by what has already been read. As I read it, He was just suggesting a summary which we already basically have. Yes, it can show a ghost topic in that column if a thread has been moved or deleted but it is for the most what was asked for. It updates once a more recent comment or thread has been made. Also, any threads you haven't read since the last activity in it are highlighted so it's pretty easy to tell what you have and have not read already. I do agree that these forums are a bit on the basic side compared to some others but at least it's a hair fancier than the old apollo forums
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Posted: 19th Jul 2017 08:39 Edited at: 19th Jul 2017 08:40
Sure, wasn't trying to be 'pointy' or critical of forum software - I think it is bespoke and I like it I was just agreeing/suggesting things that might improve it a little.

Anything that helps overcome user inertia to patrol all boards might be of benefit and might be why people are or were piling most posts into product chat. Not everyone wants to read all topics of course but for those who do or for those hoping that a post is read by as many people as possible then an aggregated summary of unread posts from all boards may help.

Might all be a storm in a teacup perhaps

Cheers.
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Posted: 19th Jul 2017 13:13
Quote: "Showcasing work in PC may be good for getting some extra views but it really isn't fair to others with interesting things to show who have been keeping to the appropriate boards"


I think the main reason this happens is that there is no real board for small demo's or examples. Showcase is more for finished games and WIP is for works in progress. So many people use product chat to show off a small experiment or something cool, or of course both There's no other board that really covers this sort of thing.
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granada
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Posted: 19th Jul 2017 14:20
Still hoping for ('Tech Demos and tutorials') board .

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Teabone
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Posted: 21st Jul 2017 06:43 Edited at: 21st Jul 2017 06:45
Quote: "
Game Guru

News and Announcements
Game Guru - General Discussion
Tutorials
Multiplayer
LUA Scripting

Community Creations

Showcase
Work In Progress
Models and Media
3rd Party Tools
TGC Store

Support

Bug Reports
Feature Requests
Website/Forum Feedback
Closed Beta Discussions

Off Topic

General Chat
Video Games Chat"


Reason why we need a "Community Creations" section... is it separates the boards. Having only "GameGuru" without any separations below... kind of just leads everyone to the top most post under that header. But yah.. i dont know what is being considered here...
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reliquia
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2017 01:54
Hi all,
here be an example for you guys to consider...

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Belidos
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Posted: 24th Jul 2017 16:00
Something needs to be done, even with this here blatantly advertising that people are getting fed up with other posting in the wrong section, people are still constantly posting stuff in product chat that has a clearly defined section for it already.

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rolfy
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Posted: 24th Jul 2017 18:54 Edited at: 24th Jul 2017 18:56
Quote: "Something needs to be done, even with this here blatantly advertising that people are getting fed up with other posting in the wrong section, people are still constantly posting stuff in product chat that has a clearly defined section for it already."
Yeah the mods need to all get on the same page and move these where they belong right away instead of responding to 'em and leaving them here. I reckon there are more users following the guidelines now than before so when they don't follow through with it they are irritating even more of us than it used to.

Maybe they should just remove this entire board for a while till people get the message.
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Posted: 24th Jul 2017 19:44 Edited at: 24th Jul 2017 19:45
replace product chat with a read-only board that shows all new posts you haven't read from the remaining boards, you can still reply to the threads if you open them but it will open the link in the appropriate board rather than the "new" board.
add a read-only board for mods and devs only which also shows there - for dev blog and news etc.
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Teabone
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Posted: 24th Jul 2017 22:40 Edited at: 24th Jul 2017 22:45
Quote: "Something needs to be done, even with this here blatantly advertising that people are getting fed up with other posting in the wrong section, people are still constantly posting stuff in product chat that has a clearly defined section for it already."


Kind of like this entire thread which should be moved to Website and Forum Feedback lol but then it be buried and forgotten...

Why the Guides and Tutorials board hasn't been created yet is beyond me..................................
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Wolf
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Posted: 25th Jul 2017 00:50
We're on it folks! Just a matter of decades now
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Posted: 25th Jul 2017 02:01 Edited at: 25th Jul 2017 02:12
What mods do to reorganize, (I'm sure the exercise is well worthwhile), the current list of boards, has little effect on where and how I post on the forum.
It appears that decision has been made for me, having had my posts relocated by Mods several times
I took the hint and now post where they have sent me.
3rd Party model/media chat
Want to show off your WIP media? Do you have finished media for sale, or need help creating media for Game Guru? Then this is where you'll want to be. (not true).
I say this because this is not a board that even comes close to what I (and possibly others) need.
I do not have a work in progress, nor media for sale and I’m not normally asking for help creating media.
I have no intention of creating a playable game for my own use or selling to the gaming world, that’s just not my thing.
I enjoy using some of my retirement playtime to explore other ways to bring to the attention of other forum users what might be useful map design ideas and perhaps a few imaginative pictorial visuals using standard Game guru entities and effects. (with revisions)

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/218327#msg2583323

It seems to me there may be several other forum members that have the same requirements looking for the highest possible views.
Possible new board: Conceptual design ideas / demo visuals. (placed near the top of the boards list)

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Posted: 25th Jul 2017 11:25
is there any way of collapsing the foreign languages board, its fine on my PC but when I use my iPhone it kind of screws up, could be a setting on my iPhone but the characters start getting strange flashing

LOL err don't think I should have posted here doh!! sorry will post in forum feedback
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Teabone
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Posted: 25th Jul 2017 13:44
Yes there needs to be a "Sandbox" section. For Tech Demos. Not entirely WIPs.
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Wolf
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Posted: 25th Jul 2017 16:24
@m2design: We have several ideas that will go in the direction you suggest and will most likely also add that Tech-Demo board. However, these decisions are not yet final and as both being the newest moderator and not in charge of anything website wise I can't exactly make these things public yet.
It would be "jumping the gun".



-Wolf
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Posted: 25th Jul 2017 20:48
@Wolf
Hey, any consideration would be appreciated. You guys just need to engrave my request/suggestion in stone.
I’m sure that whatever you guys come up with will be an improvement.

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Posted: 26th Jul 2017 08:09 Edited at: 29th Jul 2017 16:41
i also like Teabone's list. but like i said before the lua scripting part is big, and there is a lot of good complete scripts getting lost out there that can help a lot of users. The way Smalgg scripts are listed and indexed, is a good example of how we should have all the scrips out there under the lua scripting board. it will make it so easy to go and look for a script that is classified under different subjects. but again we must try and have in that detailed list of script scripts that is complete and working, and scripts still in wip.

just a suggesting ... use it , don't use it. lol
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Teabone
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Posted: 14th Aug 2017 18:44
An entire month has passed. When will these possible changes be considered and implemented? We desperately need change.
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