I created a level which isn't quite done yet but decided to see how it works out saving a stand alone game. I thought it would be just a simple clicking on the 'Save Standalone' option which I did. The results were horrifying. The first time I started the game I got an error message that stated an error in the 'map editor'. I decided to delete some of the level to see if there was too much but I don't know why that would be the case. Anyway, I finally got it to at least start up without error. When it started the game itself, I did not start at the player marker, I started out in the outer parts of the map and in fact I had gotten the drowning audio and died right away. I was not anywhere near water nor does my map contain any water. I wandered around the map forever and could not find the building where I should have started in the first place nor any other entities. If you all need some videos or screenshots I'll be posting a little later.

I don't think it is necessarily a bug so I didn't place it in the bug report board.

The buildgame 'Save Standalone' is definitely defective. He often forgets 3d models, scripts and audio. Even the characters created with the editor often go headless.

It will be a problem with the program that encrypts the data.

yes, it sounds like the save standalone has been neglected somewhat especially since all the updates that have been made in last few months. Doesn't sound like these updates have been considered in the standalone code. I'm sure that TGC will give the standalone side an overhaul at some stage.

Hopefully, it will get fixed before your game is finished. We just need to keep working and have faith that GG is ready when our games are.

The save standalone should never have been implemented until the 'core' of the engine had been set in place and everything was up to speed and no major changes to be made . But that was on the voting board so Lee put it in . To me it's like buying a real nice car ,taking it down the road and find out that they never finished putting the brakes on it ..
That's my opinion and I'm usually wrong

Lance

Yes I hope too that when Lee has finished the DX11 update, he will concentrate on the save standalone part of GG too. It used to work ok up to a point, but now it seems to forget more than it used too.

Lance, that would mean like "never". Ask Duchenkuke, for example, what he thinks about not having been able to put out his games out on steam (or anywhere, at that ;] ( although, personally, I can't get warm with his games for some reason, but he seems to be pretty successful and doesn't receive much justified flak).
But I know where you are coming from, ideally, I would even take the same position as you, but we will probably never know whether there is such a thing as a sharply defined "core" or kernel in GG.
Think of the current DX11 activity, the intended 64 Bit conversion, the increasing-the-multithreading activity and so on. How can you have a "stable" , (almost) error-free core with that employing a user/voting-board driven development model? And at the same time make a living out of it ?

Unfortunate. I have to rethink what I will need to do. I have three choices. 1. Soldier on, 2. Go back to FPSC (rpgMod) , or 3. Check out Unity, cryEngine or another engine I can't remember right now.

Attached is an image of a very simple map that has two buildings and two characters. I had to use floor zone for the characters inside this building which I like a lot. Then I have two videos one is a map editor video and the other is the standalone. Will I try to get a badge for commenting on Steam? No I don't think so because although there could be some good comments, right now I wouldn't have positive comments either.





You can see quite a few anomalies in the standalone video.

Hello,

I consider you all senior members who have been around a long time.

I experienced some of what you talk about, in relation to the "stand alone" not copying sound files over or other assets and crashing. I was able to manually solve them by copying the missing files into the "stand alone" build.

I would also, greatly like to distribute GG game builds, but keep thinking/feeling I will put so much time into levels/characters/entities only to find out, in the end...the "stand alone" results in a "no go" coming out of GG.

Sorry to hear your issues. I really hope things get resolved and there is a practical solution. Posting here is a start.

Thanks Game_Making. GG has such potential but without being able to build a game, well . . . ? I really hate to see newcomers run into this problem; but you are right. One does not want to have to spend a lot of time creating even one level map and you can't even build it. This is why I decided to test it out as I was close to finishing my first level and I wanted to send it to a couple of people to test. I won't be able to now.

Looking at how long it has taken for GG to get to this point is not encouraging. I just now came back for a look and thought things would have been ironed out by now. I honestly feel we are all being used. I actually gave a substantial amount of money in the very beginning for what was then called, FPSC-Reloaded.

Standalone's do indeed miss out entities and textures, but I have found that only old FPSC ones tend to suffer from this. Normally it's when there's a png being used for the object, it fails to copy over causing a black object. Copy the appropriate texture over manually and it should work again. Scripts can have issues as well on occasion (again solved in the same manner).

Still I have experienced issues myself beyond this. Weird errors on first loading a standalone, which on a second try vanish (No idea at all about that but it seems common). Heads from CC made NPC's vanishing (although that is supposed to be fixed), floating hair (again off CC characters). I've even seen characters set at 90 side-crawling at me in the past.

I think some new bugs have crept in with the latest few updates. It's going to happen, we can only report it when we see it and hope it's easy to find and fix.

Hi all, there seams to be many different results.

Just tried a map that I only built over the last few weeks, that has 100% custom media, and quite a few custom scripts. It is not real big and has no AI. Compiled no probs. The first time I loaded the game it locked up, gave it another go and all worked fine, all media\scripts\audio\loading screens - all there and worked fine.

I had a map that was deved on and off for the last 12 months or so that used to work flawlessly, so I will dig that up later today and give it a go see if it all still works.

However as others have experienced problems, save standalone obviously has issues - it does need some work.

Reliquia....

When we get to beta testing the DirectX 11 build, please feel free to add yourselves to the beta group (just email me at lee@thegamecreators.com) and reporting the standalone issues as a matter of urgency, and we can get them resolved along with the next major release. I do test standalone creation for each update, but only with default stock media from fresh installations of GameGuru, and I expect custom assets and installations that have a number of subsequent additions from community and store material might throw a spanner in the works. Sorry if the progress in the last 4 weeks has been slow in coming, doing a graphics API port is no small potato

Two of the biggest and most common issue with standalone are:

1. Most of the time audio, scripts, levels, and occasionally images that are called directly from scripts instead of from the properties panel, don't get copied over to standalone. The workaround for this is to add random items hidden on a level with those items added to their properties, but we really shouldn't have to use up resources doing this.

2. Multi-textured models don't always copy over the textures, this is because to get a multi-textured item to work you need to leave the textured field blank in the .fpe and if it's blank standalone seems to ignore it.

This is probably why you don't come across these issues when testing Lee, because they're not things used by most of the stock media.

Slow ? I expected a few months at least .. Right now you seem to be breaking records

My thoughts to .

Dave

I actually have never tested out a standalone export in Game Guru yet ever.



Used to have similar issues in FPSC whereas the Skyboxes wouldn't copy over. In Game Guru does the stand-alone export process scan all used scripts to search for paths? I was always quite curious what goes on behind the scenes during a standalone export. Seems complex ensuring all things connected to your game are copied over.

No, it just takes everything from the properties panel.

Ah okay. Looks like creating a solid workflow of file structures is important. Back in the days of FPSC I would have a backup folder of what I expected my standalone folder to look like. With all the proper files in there in the subsequent "bank" folders. I'd than merge the folder with the generated standalone folder and things tended to always work out okay. I might have to do the same with Game Guru to ensure no assets go missing during the build process.

I foresee problems however if you intend to have anything encrypted.

I'm having issues with standalone, just using stock assests.

3com

Wouldn't be texture related would it ?
Some older models are multi textured so are not read in the FPE for transfer.
These have to go across manually .

Nope. I've re-check all the files and they are all wrapped items with all their own d,n,s files already done, as you can see in the video.

3com

I've done a second try, this time with pure stock items, 2 barrels+winzone+player marker (in both levels); winzone has level2 name in their ifUsed field.
Named firts level as level1 and second one as level2, reopen level1.fpm and save as standalone.
GG just create level1 folder in mydocuments/mygames folder. level2 folder is missing.

Edit: I must add than firts I've saved level1+level2 fpm files in a folder named standalone try2 .

3com

Just a quick check.

Both of these levels were saved as FPM files in the base mapbank folder right? I've found that GameGuru standalone doesn't like creating multiple level games if their FPM files are in any other location than the mapbank, not even a sub folder of the mapbank.

You must also before running the standalone, load each map and save it again from last to first before clicking on save as standalone, it looks like there's some sort of caching going on where it needs to be loaded and saved during that loading of gameguru.

@ Belidos
Those level need to be named as level1, level2, etc as mandatory? (name convention)
That's the reason I've created a subfolder inside mapbank before saved these levels, since I've another level1 and level2 in mapbank but different ones, and i want avoid duplicated names issue.
If so, please let me know before run the try3 LOL
Ty belidos.

3com

you can call your level anything you like, as long as the same name is in the winzones.

Yes, that my fault, I've done as you said and it works; thanks you again mate.

3com

You're welcome, glad I could help, it happened to me too and I was scratching my head for ages thinking it was broken, it was only after literally days of trying different things I realized what the issue was, I was so relieved when I fixed it, so i'm very happy to pass it on and help out.

I've actually been contemplating making a small GameGuru blog or wiki specifically to post short articles explaining little tricks and tips like this, I could even probably set it up so some of the more knowledgeable community members (if they want to) could be authors on the blog and add their own. It's just finding the time to sit down and do it.

That's a good idea.
Feature things like explain the standalone folder structure.
However I think there should be a forum for tutorials and tricks.

3com

So I today decided to test a stand alone export.... error after error... yikes.

I'm having so many issues with standalones, things not saving as they should, entities that I need to spawn in scripts being "unspawned" when a game is reloaded from a saved game. I am using the absolute number like Spawn(30) I'm going to try and just define a variable like g_whitekey, then use Spawn(g_whitekey) maybe that will will force the save - reload game system to reload it. Frustrating to say the least.

thus.

If i set to spawn at start to NO on an entity, then use a script to spawn it, then save my game, carry on playing, then reload my previous save, the lua spawned entities are not reloaded. Anyone else had this possible bug.

Do I need to use any other commands apart from Spawn(e) in my lua to make sure they reload correctly?

Hi all, just tried another Standalone Build of one of my more complex maps - I say complex as in it is a fairly large map with a lot more entities in it.

I don't have any Ai.

There are a few custom scripts, one music track , several sound effects. Apart from a few trees, all media on the map is custom; terrain, grass, skybox, models, start screens etc.

Everything works as expected. Even loading the next level works flawlessly for me.

The only issue that is apparent is that if you shoot at anything, be it the ground, a tree, or a building, there are no hit animations like dust when you shoot the ground, or sparks when you shoot at a model with FPE materialindex set to 2 for metal.

It is like there is no collision being registered for bullets hitting objects - not even the ground. Although all that stuff works in test game.

That along with some pretty horrendous loading times really makes publishing a game a no-brainer - simple just don't.

Reliquia....

This is what really kills Gameguru games for me, I have tried a few and more often than not can't be bothered waiting for them to reload after being killed, I just quit and delete, also with some the weary loading progress bar is so hit and miss you don't know if it is loading or has locked up.

My game has an insane amount of scripts running at all times with a lot of custom media (including sprites and audio). They all work fine in test game just not in the standalone process. I guess this is why all the games on Steam have for the most part been incredibly simplistic.

I'm assuming load times may improve with the DX11 release? This does allow GG to use more memory I believe?

Hi all, yeah I think we are all hoping for some huge improvements with DX11 update

I just made another standalone using the same first level map I used in the last post, but with a different second level, and although both maps work fine in test game as expected - the standalone threw an error:

Here is what I got:
The usual wait for 30 seconds minimum after double clicking the exe - gives you a chance to deliberate on whether you really like you desktop image or not
Then the usual 10 or more seconds of black screen - is your black really black?
Then a 105 error - somthing to do with skyspec file for my second levels skybox
Then press enter and crashes completely
Doesn't even get to display the first loading screen image.
Now I checked, and all the files were copied over - so what went wrong?

For testing purposes I made a standalone of the second level only and apart from the seemingly nothing happening and black screen annoyances, it worked fine.

So after thinking about it and fluffing around, this is what went wrong:

I put all my custom media into custom folders whenever I can, ie:
- audiobank\stories\gamename\audio1
- audiobank\stories\gamename\audio2..... etc

- entitybank\gamename\buildings
- entitybank\gamename\landscape
- entitybank\gamename\fixtures..... etc

- scripbank\stories\gamename\script1
- scripbank\stories\gamename\script2..... etc

- skybank\gamename\skyboxname1
- skybank\gamename\skyboxname2..... etc

- wish we could do the same with grasses.... but we can't, why?


However the skybox in my second level was not in the same folder as the skybox for the first level. Once I put them in the same folder the standalone worked.

Hence there seams to be a glitch with the way the folders are being read for required media by the loading process. So in my case, even though the standalone build copied everything over correctly, the loading process couldn't find the second skybox, because it was expecting it to be in the same folder as the first one.

So I guess the more complex our levels\folder structures\etc the more errors we will get from the standalone build, either not copying things over, or the loader not looking in the right place when loading media.

Conclusion: in one way or another a standalone build will have issues - either minor, or critical - but issues non the less.

The other thing that I wonder is why was the loader looking for files used in the second level anyway, was it just verifying that all required files are present, or is it going to load the whole game into memory?

Reliquia....

I doubt it, still 32-bit as ever, so memory restrictions are the same It may be more efficient with memory though, to get the same effects up and running as the DX9 version. Being a lot newer it will certainly support more 3D graphics card features than DX9 can.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs in any case!

Hi all,

I agree with DVader - memory is limited just by 32bit in itself, it matters not how much ram your pc has, 32 bit will only use a set amount - 4gig I think (@Belidos, you would know that - so please correct me if I be wrong on that). This is true even if you have a 64bit machine.

It should deliver better management of it though I would think - plus the potential for better graphics.

Back on topic:
I have been rearranging my folder setup, and find that particularly with the SkyBank, you have to be careful what folder names you use - at least on Windows 10.

For example my original username was OldFlak, but when some customers downloaded my skyboxes, they would not show up in the dropdown list in TabTab mode. The system simply could not read the contents of the folder, so it would appear empty, selecting it would crash Game Guru.

So for example the folder structure would be this:
skybank>
>oldflak>
>>toonlandfluff
>>moltarenmyst

But in TabTab the sky dropdown list would only show my artist name ie:
oldflak

Whereas it should appear in the list like this:
oldflak\toonlandfluff
oldflak\moltarenmyst

This issue went on for quite some time, and the glitch was not albe to be resolved by the TGC staff, and ended up with me having to change my store name to Reliquia. Which I was just a little peeved about

So now when customers download my skyboxes the folder structure is:
skybank>
>reliquia>
>>toonlandfluff
>>moltarenmyst

And appear in the list like this:
reliquia\toonlandfluff
reliquia\moltarenmyst

Why does one username work and not the other?

This only affected the skybank folder on Windows 10 machines, all other content worked fine, apparently on all versions of Windows.

Since then I have found that other folder names within skybank have the same issue, particularly if they start with the same letter(s). But it is random, there is no obvious reason why some folder names work and others don't. And why should they not work anyway - it is just a string in code in the end.

This all tells me that there is a glitch in the code somewhere, that prevents GG reading file\folders correctly.

So I wonder if this is part of the issue when creating standalone builds. Perhaps the build process has trouble reading some folder\media names. Maybe the load process has a similar issue. The fact that different system setups have different results, and we are dealing with multiple versions of Windows, just makes it harder to work out what is going on, and why some builds fail epically, while others have only minor issues.

Reliquia.....

Yes, 4 gig is the limit of 32 bit systems. You also lose some memory from having GG loaded in the first place as well, so 4 gig minus Game Guru's memory footprint. The only way to increase that is to go 64 bit. It's not as big an issue as it seems generally, but with large maps you can experience all sorts of issues due to memory leaks. Meaning you have to restart often. GG used to be fairly solid on this front, but since the last few updates (AI and terrain) I have found it almost useless and more frustrating to use than I have ever found it

Anyway, can't see x64 anytime soon but hopefully those memory leaks or whatever is causing GG to crash so quickly will be fixed

DX11 paves the way for 64 bit

GG would be awesome with 64bit support.

This would explain the issues I'm having with visible grids showing up on the terrain and this weird shadow line. I find it goes away once I reset Game Guru all together. It also tends to occur after I've been using GG for over an hour with other apps running (browser tabs, notepad and steam).

If someone reminds me, once we tick the graphics overhaul from the list, I will add Conversion of Engine to 64-Bit. Be warned, this is another 'big' job as the entire engine will be using 32-bit pointers (all over the place) and it will be a case of breaking everything and slowly restoring functionality, and for most users, you will not notice any difference after the conversion, only those who want a little more breathing room when it comes to system memory usage (the video memory usage will still depend on the GPU graphics card/system you have).

Although 64bit would be welcome I personally feel it wouldn't hurt to get a few more features in first or even get things like AI sorted before another long overhaul.
That's just my opinion though .... The fact it will happen is good enough for me at the moment.

I think we can wait a while before another long overhaul. Waiting for new texture rendering myselfe ,and a bit more speed of course.

Dave