Product Chat / Reflective Puddles

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Teabone
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 11:01 Edited at: 11th Dec 2016 11:03
Is it at all possible to make reflective puddles in Game-Guru? I know this was possible in FPSC as I seen it in a few games games made with it.

I really like how they look here in this small student indie game made in UR4:


Is there a shader for something like this in GG?
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Teabone
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 20:27
I'm going to try to port over some of the shaders from FPSC and see how they fair in GG.
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cybernescence
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 20:58
I couldn't get any reflectivity to work - tried for hours but started to think the engine only allows the GG water shader access to the required texture info.

Hope you have better luck.


Cheers.
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 21:57
I was going to try doing something with blood splat decals and high specular value.
I won't reflect like a mirror but will at least give a shiny surface like it's raining.

Example:


This is not what you're looking for but you can kind of see where I'm going here?
I hope your work with shaders works out though; lord knows we could use more flexibility effect-wise.
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 21:57 Edited at: 11th Dec 2016 21:59
This is one of the only shader effects I have attempted to implement, alongside mirrors. Pretty sure the shader support just doesn't work here. I'm certainly no expert with shaders, not even a beginner. All I've done is make a shader that works in Dark Shader, copied over to GG and run. Never any luck at all Worked fine in Dark Shader though. I'm guessing that there's a little more needed to get a shader working in GG

Would be a nice addition if Lee could add some shaders that would work for this sort of thing I'm sure he could convert some Dark Shader ones over fairly easily.

Edit - Actually, the spec value may help here As semi-decent way to fake it


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3com
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 22:50
Currrently we just can to fake it:

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/215493

Quote: "Would be a nice addition if Lee could add some shaders that would work for this sort of thing "

This would be great.

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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 23:16
we need more eye candy
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Teabone
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 23:35 Edited at: 11th Dec 2016 23:57
Looks like quite a number of the old FPSC shaders do work in GG. I'll keep plugging away and see what I can come up with. Also I do have an old version of DarkShader which I h ave used for GG to create a few interesting effects


Left is FPSC Metro Theater shader | Right is with the basic GG stock shader
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Teabone
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 23:49 Edited at: 11th Dec 2016 23:53
Some progress...


Here are two different shaders for water. They both appear somewhat reflective based off a light position that I'm assuming is in the shader settings themselves. At first they appear just like black blobs but when you walk around you can see one is animated for ripple and the other is flat reflecting light.



Is there some way to control the opacity of an entity? Seems like there is an issue with the alpha channels too. When brought over to GG from FPSC. I kind of expected everything from FPSC to just work in GG... this is unfortunate.

Least this seems to be a step in the right direction. However like the over 1000's assets ive been converting over... this looks like its going to require a lot of extra work to get working and looking good in GG.

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DVader
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 23:54
I got a black look as well, but never much like water


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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 23:57
I was trying to get this to work a year ago or so. And the answer is no...at least not currently. I do hope for someone to prove me wrong though.

Quote: "small student indie game"


Such beautiful artwork!! Yet the music ruined it for me.
If we only had a couple more artists this caliber making games over here!!



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Teabone
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 00:06 Edited at: 12th Dec 2016 00:13
I see where the problem is. The shader makes use of an image of a room that is assigned as the spectacular map. I have this DDS file but GG doesn't display it. So it just goes black instead.

I've got an idea that might work.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 00:08
I bet something similar could be done like rolfys waves .... Very similar effect to look at

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Teabone
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 00:16 Edited at: 12th Dec 2016 00:28
Playing with different methods. Someone was able to create a convincing water shader for a lake. I cant recall who did that originally but i forgot i had it in my folders after all this time. I wonder if something could be done with it.

I should consider buying those wave packs. They would work really well in a game im working on. Plus would be cool to take a look under the hood
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Teabone
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 00:16 Edited at: 12th Dec 2016 05:27
Okay I've made some progress by using transparency modifications in the FPE.



Not exactly reflective, but it does actually look like a puddle. Going to continue poking away and see what I can do referring the lakebed shader. Since it displays a DDS file of the sky - working in GG.
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Teabone
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 01:20
Okay I finally figured it out. I'll share my results shortly. Just need an urban enough looking scenery to match what is reflected.
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granada
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 01:35
Quote: "Okay I finally figured it out. I'll share my results shortly. Just need an urban enough looking scenery to match what is reflected."

This sounds good

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Teabone
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 01:45 Edited at: 12th Dec 2016 04:57
I've set a blurred out image of a night-time urban city lights as the diffuse texture. Each puddle appears different depending on where it is. Since the diffuse texture is scaled out.

Unfortunate the transparency isn't working at the moment with these shader settings so I'll have to see what more can be done. Because I think once you can partly see through it and see the reflections thats when you achieve more realism.

At present i have it animated with waves since I'm referencing a lake water shader FX. Lowering global spec, surface light and ambient lights seem to unfortunately not effect the puddles. So they somewhat glow.

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Bugsy
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 01:58
that's a great looking game, and I feel like with a shader that boosts illuminationmaps, and reddens the low-mid tones, a similar look could be achieved.
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Bolt Action Gaming
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 02:13
I kind of took it for granted but I've been using those files for months without error, though they don't look as good as they did in FPSC



And yes, it does move. Doesn't look great, but works.

Most of it is about the pathing used to make sure it finds the files.

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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 02:33
Very interesting. Great job so far.
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 02:40
what bugs me is it looks perfect in the editor, but bad in the game.
Teabone
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 04:42 Edited at: 12th Dec 2016 09:01
Okay I think this looks pretty close to what they achieved in Kishin:

Its not true reflections but works similar to the scope in our sniper rifle in GG. Parallax scrolling effect of a diffuse texture:



You'll need to create a variety of diffuse textures that are blurred out scenes from your level and environment for this to really work. Specifically things that are illuminated should be what stands out. The example scene I'm using would work out better if i had more illuminated street signs and etc, assets. But you get the picture of how it works.

If I stop it from animating and get transparency some how to work... I think we can achieve the same effect. Without transparency it appears as almost a floating mass and doesn't blend well with the environment. So that's the next step.

Additionally I don't think the parallax should follow the player, as this would distribute the perspective of what's being "reflective". Much work to be done here :/
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lordjulian
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 10:30
Hey, that looks cool. I'm rubbish at these really technical things so not sure how you made that work but it looks good. I've noticed the sniper rifle's site is very reflective and wondered why the TGC team didn't transfer that to the other entities. I remember on FPSC X10 there was a slider for reflection - you could make it go really OTT.
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lordjulian
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 10:36
Would you consider doing a video tutorial for those of us who just had a lot of that go over our head? I've got FPSC and also X10 so presumably I've got the necessary shaders...?
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Bolt Action Gaming
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 14:37
Julian - the ones I'm using are the stock ones that came with my metro pack. So basically just make sure the files are in the right places and it will look at least like mine. NFI how Teabone did his.

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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 17:56
Thanks, .B.A.G.. I will have a go.
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Teabone
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 19:44 Edited at: 12th Dec 2016 22:26
Those Metro Theatre water effects will not work as intended in GG (presently). You will need to modify the shaders or create completely new ones that GG can support. I suggest DarkShader. Right now I'm I'm using the lake-bed shader as a starting point. You may also need to replace some of the textures yourself so they have proper alpha channels. I'm not sure what sections of the shaders (fx) files GG is not outputting. So its hard to say how to fix those. Did mention to fix the ripple on that spouts. But it requires 2 meshes for it to look like water. Rather than just a decal.

Continuing with the experiments, you can modify the shape of the puddles in GG's editor and it will not deform the reflected image. So you can make pools, puddles or even lakes. You can even scale it unbalanced and it will still not deform the actual textures - since the shader is controlling them how they are presented.




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Teabone
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Posted: 14th Dec 2016 01:38
Quote: "Would you consider doing a video tutorial for those of us who just had a lot of that go over our head?
"

If I can actually get it to utilize transparencies and lock the rotations.
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Posted: 14th Dec 2016 20:39
Amazing work Teabone! Very creative and I can see the start of something very useful
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Posted: 17th Dec 2016 21:39
Thanks! I think i might open up DarkShader and see if i can come up with something more workable in GG. I'm really not that familar with the code within the fx files but with enough references we should be able to get something hopefully close to the same results as the game in the original post.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 14th Jan 2017 09:28 Edited at: 14th Jan 2017 12:22
Just sidetracking a bit and going back to the metro theatre waterfall, you guys probably figured out already, but if not here's what I did to get the waterfall working (animates fine and no it's not a decal):

copied over the original .X, _D, _I, _N,_S textures and the waterfall2.fx into the relevant GG folders.. textures placed under the same folder as the .X file.
in the fpe, add a parameter transparency=2 (5 for water made the object disappear).
[update] - added the DINS texture references to the FPE i.e. texturen=..._D.dds, texturei=..._I.dds etc. Also, although you may not have to if you don't have it, re-compliled the shader to use 3_0 for PS/VS]
also playing around with reflective shaders in DarkShader to see what I can hopefully produce (for real reflections you need dynamic shader). fun and games with shaders....

[update-added MetroTheatre rippling puddles (transparency 0 and 1)- just need to figure out reflection using Dynamic shader]
[update-playing around with Black Ice Mod version of FPSC and the shaders in there...looks promising ]
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Teabone
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Posted: 14th Jan 2017 12:21
Wonderful! Thanks BotR. Was using the wrong transparency value. Its unfortunate the transparnacy modifications in the FPE doesn't affect the shader with the multiple images (one with fake city reflections)
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Wolf
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Posted: 14th Jan 2017 14:23
Wonderful progress!! I'll experiment on this as well as soon as I'll find the time today. Thank you BOTR
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Posted: 16th Jan 2017 11:48
Nice progress Teabone, reflections are always upside down , so try to flip your y, dont know your shader code but something like:

tex2D( DiffuseSampler , float2( IN.TexCoord.x, 1.0 - IN.TexCoord.y ) );

If your using IN.TexCoord

To "hard code" experiment with alpha in the last line of your fragment function it normally say:
return result;

Try to change this to:
return float4(result.xyz,0.5);

To set it to half alpha , lower 0.5 to get it more transparent.
best regards Preben Eriksen,
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 15:35 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 16:35
more success with reflections in puddles using Dark Shader. Will post later when I double check some stuff

[update-here is a (still far from perfect) pic shopwing puddle reflections. Still loads to play around with yet]
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 13:07 Edited at: 19th Jan 2017 13:08
metro theatre stair water+rippling puddles with animation in GG , would like to attempt recreating the whole of this level, am also looking into raising water levels, now that would be cool
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 16:22
that looks amazing well done BOTR
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 17:53
that's better-with radial water effect (re-compiled to use ps/vs shader 3.0). animation a bit slow due to video recording software, no audio yet but working on it.

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Quote: "that's better-with radial water effect (re-compiled to use ps/vs shader 3.0). animation a bit slow due to video recording software, no audio yet but working on it."

Good job.
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 18:47
thanks-although I didn't do the original effects etc, that was down to Bond1. I just wanted to see what worked and what didn't, shader wise. Sorry Teabone, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. this is the last pic of the lightshaft (animated) and then I won't be posting any more.

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Teabone
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Posted: 21st Jan 2017 10:24
Quote: " Sorry Teabone, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. this is the last pic of the lightshaft (animated) and then I won't be posting any more."


Not a Hijack at all! This is the type of discussions and experimenting from the community I was hoping to nudge out of people
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 21st Jan 2017 11:47
thanks Teabone, didn't want anyone thinking I was "taken over" the thread. How are your puddle reflections coming on? what process did you do to achieve the results you've got so far?
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2017 15:29
The devs showed us a pic of a reflective shader a long time ago. Im wondering why it was never added....
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