Product Chat / My Gameguru Progress

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wizard of id
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 16:32 Edited at: 31st Oct 2016 16:34
Yeah that was a click bait, actually not really. I really wanted to share this, as this really is an awesome progress for me in gameguru, especially from the FPSC classic days.

I wanted to do some thing special for gameguru and really push what I can do artistically in gameguru with in the limitations it has.I am pretty chuffed with the end result and it has blown my mind how much a little animated thing can improve visuals.Not every one visits my media thread, I just wanted to show it can be done with some effort and the right attitude.






Here is the latest video.

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Bolt Action Gaming
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 18:54
This is phenomenal! Well done
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 19:50 Edited at: 1st Nov 2016 07:36
Brilliant, see, this shows what can be done with GG, with a bit of time and effort, great job WoI
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granada
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 20:49
Great work there,I have the same sort of thing going on with a crane in my level.certainly brings to life,love the lighting.brilliant overall effect,nice work.

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Wolf
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 21:16
If it where shameless clickbait I'd lock it but it clearly is not.

What you have done here reminds me of the environment in the original Half Life. I don't mean to say that it looks dated, it doesn't to me, I mean to say that it has the same level of environmental dynamics that have been so ground breaking back then. Color scheme and artistic choices also remind me of a showcase of a earlier version of the leadwerks engine which I wished I could replicate in FPSC back then (we did not have any working static shaders back then and I could not even model a box.). Of course what you have done has way more polish.

Its a great level and I'm certainly going to buy it!



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wizard of id
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 22:23
Thanks guys.It's a real treat having a look at old video's and screens and see the actual progress that is made, and a lot of fun.
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MXS
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 22:29 Edited at: 1st Nov 2016 00:53
yes this is great.
more than what meets the eye.Welcome to SciFi Summer

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wizard of id
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 22:39
@MXS

While I appreciate your feedback this isn't a venting thread we have enough of those . So what if indoor light mapping isn't perfect, or has issues, it doesn't bother me all that much, and it will be eventually be fixed. So I rather do it, and live with the visual problems and be able to create some unique levels and when it's fixed, it's already accessible.Win-win really
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synchromesh
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 22:57
Very impressive !!
Certainly brings the level to life ..
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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wizard of id
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Posted: 31st Oct 2016 23:16
Quote: "I would think you would like your work to be shown off with some type gameplay"
Not really I want to show the content not gameplay...if you make a game yeah you should do that.It's too much a distraction if the purpose is too showcase the content.I have yet to see a unity store content showcase explicitly show game play elements unrelated to the content, it simply results in too much of a distraction from what you are trying to show, plus having spend days or weeks creating the content, spending additional days or weeks adding unrelated gameplay, isn't time well spend and it is wasted to say the least.

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Posted: 1st Nov 2016 00:19
Stupendous!
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Posted: 1st Nov 2016 03:32
This is phenomenal work. In my opinion, the textures have been done really well, and they seem very detailed.
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Posted: 1st Nov 2016 19:34 Edited at: 27th Jul 2019 14:35
Quote: "What you have done here reminds me of the environment in the original Half Life."


EXACTLY what I thought!! Excellent work Wizard!
wizard of id
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Posted: 1st Nov 2016 20:23
Thanks mate, not that the intention was half-life .
Actually decided to add more animated goodies, as ultimately I would like to do an animated mine cart so I am getting my head around around curve animation at the first attempt of curve animation isn't too bad. Then I need to figure out limb animation for the mine cart and zipping along a path in game guru could end up being epic.

I have neglected animation for 10 years I think I got the modeling and texturing part down, animation is the next step.....

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Posted: 2nd Nov 2016 07:54
That's very cool I've been working on something with the same idea (on a rail) but the animation is nowhere as smooth as this.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2016 10:47
Quote: "That's very cool I've been working on something with the same idea (on a rail) but the animation is nowhere as smooth as this."
Thanks. I normally don't animate the objects more then once, I visualize how it's going to move along the rail and setup the curve for the path animation, after which I do nifty rotation bits in between and mark the key frames. I think setting up the curves path objects centers takes the most time, the actual animation of the objects is 5 minutes tops.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 13:13
Time to resurrect, Actually took a decent while to find a groove to do scifi stuff again, considering this time around I am doing every thing from scratch. I am pretty happy with the end result, but I will keep on pushing, till people ask which engine this is









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MStockton
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 15:54
First time seeing this thread. The videos took me back to.... Half Life, and Quake II, with all of the machinery moving around, even without the squishing sounds and gore. Those two games and RTCW were what got me permanently hooked on PC gaming, so I hope that's a compliment. Not the look, but the feel. Awesome.

The new images are great, too. Really crisp, clean, and just very nice. I love the "semi-sterile, but not too sterile, nor is it all worn out and neglected" scifi look. Keep it up!
I tried to sign it but all I did was mess up my screen.
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 17:36
WOW, awesome look, this is totally inspiring...thanks for sharing
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granada
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 18:14
Quote: "WOW, awesome look,"


Your right there,I realy enjoy watching wizard of ids
Work grow ( keeping very quiet about the work flow though )

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Mouaa
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 18:19 Edited at: 9th Jan 2017 18:57
This is phenomenal texturing job about the SciFi level.
The downside is the lighting is very flat and normal maps or specular doesn't show a lot, that's sad considering the textures quality.
wizard of id
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 19:18
Quote: "Your right there,I realy enjoy watching wizard of ids
Work grow ( keeping very quiet about the work flow though )

Dave"


Lol, Trade secrets and all Might do a tutorial one day

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granada
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Posted: 9th Jan 2017 19:52
Quote: "Might do a tutorial one day "


That would be cool.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 10:04
Quote: "This is phenomenal texturing job about the SciFi level.
The downside is the lighting is very flat and normal maps or specular doesn't show a lot, that's sad considering the textures quality."
Actually that is a problem with the engine more then normals and specular maps, it is a specific issue with using baked lights, Dynamic lighting is almost unusable dynamic lighting is calculated per entity instead as a group which results in odd shadows.

Baked light maps, pretty much results in poor shader output, lee is aware of it, it isn't a bug per say, but rather a poor lightmapper.

As you can see the specular and bumps are there with dynamic light mapping.Taking a screenshot of the same object with baked lights the specular maps will be all but gone.

The trade off is baking a level without adding any light sources and adding dynamic lights afterwards this will eat performance in return, and dynamic lights will simply pop into being killing any scene or mood.Sure outdoor levels benefit from specular and bump maps much better, however considering, this engine has no actual support for indoor levels, so the specular and bump maps are there, just the rendering pipeline that deals poorly with it.Do your self a favour and look at the massive difference between static and dynamic lights and light mapping in a indoor scene even outdoors...
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granada
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 11:49
Is that a new part you have made there,looks like a vent.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 11:56
new model just using it as an example........
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Mouaa
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 12:51 Edited at: 10th Jan 2017 12:53
Quote: "As you can see the specular and bumps are there with dynamic light mapping.Taking a screenshot of the same object with baked lights the specular maps will be all but gone."

GG needs a modern lighting with reflection probes that are easy to implement. In interiors eal times shadows will work modulated with global illumination throught level probes. You'll get a better lighting taking fully advantage of normal and specular maps without needing to use lightmaps, and your lighting will no more look flat.
Sadly there is no Guru shader to implement it in Game Guru lol

This is used in mobile games also
LeeBamber
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 15:55
@Mouaa : Can you walk me through the basics of your idea for reflection probes? Perhaps you can modify the entity_basic.fx and static_basic.fx shaders to create the effect and let me know what source information you need the engine to provide? I will be working on visuals through 2017 and happy to work with you to achieve real-time shadows and removal of the lightmapping system. What kind of performance hit do you anticipate using DirectX 9.0c and the technique you have in mind?
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wizard of id
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 16:28
@LeeBamber

Real time reflection probes actually has quite a performance hit apposed to baked probes.
https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/class-ReflectionProbe.html

However it's is a lot of work, just for cube map reflection, I would be much happier with simple cube mapping and additional gloss texture slot on a new shader. I believe these probes is a nice to have rather then a essential component to the rendering pipeline, the performance costs are quite significant for realtime, and if you bake the probes you might as well just use a normal cubemap.

I don't know personally it's more of a nice to have, the probes deals with reflection of surfaces, it won't improve normals or specular maps, for that you actually need decent shader for that, but I think the lightmapper is partly to blame for the poor visuals of the current shader.
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Mouaa
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 16:59 Edited at: 10th Jan 2017 17:28
Quote: "However it's is a lot of work, just for cube map reflection, I would be much happier with simple cube mapping and additional gloss texture slot on a new shader"

Indeed this could be achieved , and provide better graphics than actual ones.

Probes or the cheap system you mentionned, allow you to have less or more reflective surfaces, you can simulate lot of materials with lot better fidelity than simply using a specular value. You'll be able to get some rubber with alsmot no reflection, rought metal with little reflection, or polished metal surfaces with almost full reflection. This can be used for wet and water textures surfaces.
You'll make better GG looking games.

Quote: "
the performance costs are quite significant for realtime"

There is recent adoptions for Forward rendering + because of VR , instead of Deffered that costs more GPU.
Gamers average PC are not very old, those who plays actual and past games must be using hardware 5 years old maximum that already could perform well. Today you can get good old graphics card for 100$ performing great.
One thing to blame won't be the renderer but the 3D engine optimisations.

The roughness simulates better light absorption, this is the advantage over old rendering systems.
With specular only metal materials will have the old look, with reflections it will look more like real metal.
img]http://blog.playcanvas.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/shadingComparison2.jpg[/img]

Lightmapper is not producing good bouncing lightening, it looks very dated, that's why it is better to aboid using it in GG i think, because it will override all your lighting effects.
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 18:11
This is touching PBR, so might as well use that appose to probes I guess, While PBR is on the list, I don't think the engine will be doing in any thing useful with it, as it essentially needs a much better and advance lighting system to be fully appreciated, a bit of wasted tech.

What I have actually done is to apply the gloss map directly to textures as well as AO and cavity maps.Gloss map essentially contains all the information related to reflectiveness as well as dirt and scratches and other bits of information, adding this to the current shader should vastly improve things already.
Specular map work directly in conjunction with the gloss map, so not some thing that is useful to apply to a texture.Due to the weak baked light normals, I pre process all the texture information while not ideal, it still works great especially when you apply lower graphics details the bump map is already embedded and you don't end up with too much of a loss in the visual department.

With pre processed textures I get away with a lot more.While I have nothing against probes, I personally prefer the shaders doing all the work in the background and simply tweak the texture to my needs.Additional scene layer and time is my least favorite thing, considering I spend more time in a model editor then GG.

If you can do the probes without the scene looking as messy as that I would be game, and different colours, with a small real time window so you can tweak without having to go into test game every time. The biggest issue I have however is that GG doesn't allow primitive creation, and often you have combined meshes to create indoor levels so it wouldn't be ideal, this method really only suites free standing entities, and if you start separating meshes you start increasing draw calls and that results in massive performance hit, so there are some problems and usage restrictions so on the fence a bit

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Mouaa
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Posted: 10th Jan 2017 19:42 Edited at: 10th Jan 2017 22:23
Quote: "If you can do the probes without the scene looking as messy as that I would be game, and different colours, with a small real time window so you can tweak without having to go into test game every time. The biggest issue I have however is that GG doesn't allow primitive creation, and often you have combined meshes to create indoor levels so it wouldn't be ideal, this method really only suites free standing entities, and if you start separating meshes you start increasing draw calls and that results in massive performance hit, so there are some problems and usage restrictions so on the fence a bit "


I agree a quality light mapper can get amazing results



About reflection probes, i mean baked reflection probes, when you have done your scene you click on some "bake Probes" button , and it is very fast.
Placing reflection probes can be done manually drawing rectangular 3D zones, the shader will do the job to mix reflection probes when some 3D model position is inside several probes volumes.

I don't expect GG to get top notch graphics, but light and reflection probes would help a lot, as i have only the old specular effects without reflections


The only work around i have is to use GG with semi realistic graphics or something different than trying to get realistic materials.
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Posted: 11th Jan 2017 19:04
This looks really nice work. I really like the sci-fi areas in particular, very impressive.


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Posted: 12th Jan 2017 08:22
Wonderful work! I really like the smoothness of your Sci-Fi interiors.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 17th Jan 2017 16:53 Edited at: 17th Jan 2017 16:53
Thanks mate

While definitely getting there, I previously said I wanted to make a showcase level for gameguru. It's almost there, Just needs more entities, clutter and scifi crates.I am currently researching on a way to get a glowing hologram TV or standard ceiling hanging TV screen done, some door switch panels, wires and such.Then I think it would be near perfect.Ceiling Gatling gun might not hurt either.

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 17th Jan 2017 17:01
Looking great WOI. Nice touch with the animated fans.
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granada
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Posted: 17th Jan 2017 18:05
Quote: ".Then I think it would be near perfect.Ceiling Gatling gun might not hurt either. "


Just came across a couple of them today in a game i am playing at the moment (Alien Rage ) .cool feature for your level.

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Mouaa
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Posted: 17th Jan 2017 18:53 Edited at: 17th Jan 2017 19:12
Amazing job.

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