as the title already suggests i was wondering how to import models with animations?
i've got a designer creating custom models for me that i would like to import into GG.
i have tried with .x and .fbx messing around with the included importer + entity workshop and it works for the static model.
however i have no idea how to "activate" the animations ?
sorry if this seems a stupid qustion, but i'm more of a coder and the 3d animation field is new to me, so any help would be appreciated!

edit: i've since discovered these options in the fpe, could anyone explain what they are for exactly?
animmax =
anim0 =
anim1 =
i guess anim0 is the start of the animation frames and anim1 is the end, however where do i find the values in a fbx file?
i imported a model with the GG importer and just get a .dbo in the "user" folder of the entitybank.

There are documents in the GameGuru/docs folder explaining what these are and how to use them.

anim0 will list the start and end frames of that animation sequence.
anim0 = 0,24
anim1 =25,40

And so on. they can be assign by you, but animations in the model file will need to exist for these to tell the scripts what you want to run at what time.

well i tried to find info, but i didn't see anything in the docs about this, can you point me to the file / section please where i can find it ?
in "Importing models into GameGuru.pdf" there isn't even the word "anim" anywhere, i've tried to search for that keyword in the document

The importer will not bring in the animations and list them out for you in the FPE file as of yet.

These things will need to be added by hand after the fact. List your animation start and end frames on a sheet of paper to make it easier for you to add them to the FPE file.

ok but where is the part about animations in the documentation that you mentioned ? would like to read it.. to be honest the documentation of GG lacks a lot of details and if you are new and haven't been on the old FPSC forum its a pain to find all the infos. its a huge amount of time required to search the forums for bits of information all the time. the official guides are very basic and offten lack advanced details take for example the LUA scripting tutorial. not even all functions are documented and when you ask about it you get answers like look at script xyz.lua and try to figure it out yourself. i don't have a problem with figuring things out myself, but its a tremendous waste of time in this case. another example is the material index, when asked i got pointed to some tutorial in the shop for people who want to sell 3d models. how should i as new user know to look there ? there needs to be a centralized documentation for everything. especially since offten you get pointed to the old FPSC forums which i as new user can't access. there are many downloads which i can't look at and you never know if the info is outdated as its not directly GG.

It was not in there. I rechecked, must have been a post from some thread some where.

Sorry Not in charge of documentation. Just have read every thread in the forums for the last 6 years.
Then practice, practice and trial and error.

There is no practical way to have a tutorial on every scenario people can dream up. Sometimes you just need to get your hands dirty and keep pushing for what you want.

You can do a google site search for a specific keyword, and you will be listed with exact posts that you search for.
Use this format from Google search page.
site:forum.game-guru.com search term

Go to this link: https://www.google.com/advanced_search
Then start filling in the words of topics you want to know about. dont forget to fill in the domain to search. game-guru.com

Such a different world today then when I started with classic version.

If you did not search for what you want nobody would search it for you.

see thats the issue here... when you ask you get "look in the docs", but thats the problem. its the 2nd time now that some mod told me look in the docs and the info just wasn't there the docs lack too much and then you get pointed to "somewhere in the forum". just to make sure, i'm not blaming you, i just mention it in general as this is a real big problem and i've seen others complain too so its not just me!
i know that you can't document every scenario and thats not required at all and thats not what i asked for, but a basic documentation of all script functions is really needed and that centralized. just as example: document all GG specific lua functions/globals and the fpe options, this would be no problem to archive and explained in detail not just 1 sentence. then you don't have to search 100 places just to get bits of information. also like i mentioned you offten get pointed to the old forum for FPSC were i can't access the downloads so i can't look at example scripts or fpe files that people shared to learn from etc, so how am i supposed to get the info then ?
i have been searching on google don't worry i use the internet since the 90s even before google existed that still doesn't help if half of the info is locked away in an old forum plus i never know if the old data still applies to the new GG version! this is not very professional to be honest. i'm a software developer myself and i mean the software is advertised to be also good for commercial games, but it seems the main focus is on casual gamers who build their own games for themselfs. they have the time to search forum posts for days, but for others time is limited. i have spent several hours over weeks now to get info from the forums and learned lua from the official lua docs and the GG specific functions from your lua tutorial and example scripts on the forum.
however like i said even if you search for the info the forum posts are offten outdated or people point you to the old FPSC forum were i can't access the downloads people have attached so i can't look at example scripts, screenshots are offten broken images as they are hotlinked from some other hosts that have changed since. at least make the old forum available again (as in let new GG users login), so we can access the old attachments people have added to posts.
sorry for the rant, but i hope you understand the point. its not that i'm too lazy to search for info, but GG has the info in so many different places and the default doc's leave out many important things, can we get a feature vote for better documentation maybe?

Sorry but that huge wall of text is very hard to read, here's some info about LUA commands.

1. All of the hard coded Global functions are listed, with information on what variables they use, and a description, in the gameguru/files/scriptbank/global.lua file

2. They can't list every function that you could possibly use in LUA because LUA is not set in stone, most of the LUA function you may come across that are used by the community are LUA functions that don't actually exist, they've coded them themselves. That's how LUA works, you learn how to use it then you use it to write your own commands.

To learn more about LUA take a look at https://www.lua.org

As you can see there's a massive amount of documentation there, LUA is a very large and complex language, but the fundamentals are very easy to learn.

ok great.

first off where is the model from?
what 3d program are you using to know what animation exist in the model?

FBX format is not going to work right now.
It will need to be in x format to even stand a chance of getting into game guru right now.

What kind of skeleton exists. If it is over 60 bones, then it will be even harder to get it in.
You will need to know how to open and edit the model in which ever 3d program you decide to use.

You may need to scale the model to the proper size, as most things you get that are not from Game Guru are not scaled proper in anyway shape or form.
If the model is not scaled proper in the first place, you will most likely have to re rig and re animate it.

Once you manage to get thru that, then you will need to record the animation sequences (walk, run, attacks, death, hit or damage to the character, other animations you may want), on a piece of paper to be hand entered into the fpe file at the bottom in the animation section you listed in your first post.

Anim# = the animation sequence of a specific task such as walk, or idle Will need a start and end frame of animation to point to so a script knows when to start and stop a sequence.

You can have as many of these as you want and just keep incrementing the # part up one number each sequence.

If you use anim statement to list out animations then you will need to make a custom script to operate the character.

section in fpe file:
;anim
animmax = 1
anim0 = 3000,3100
playanimineditor = 1
anim1 = 0,100
anim2 = 101,130
anim3 = 131,170
anim4 = 171,200
anim5 = 200,255
and so on till all your animations are listed.


animmax is the number of animations you have Plus 1. You list them out starting with anim0 as the first one. Anim0 will play in the editor without any script such as swaying trees, or rotating objects that will be animating all the time.
They are turned on by this statement in the fpe file. playanimineditor = 1. setting this to 0 will not have that animation playing in the editor.

If you open the Uber Soldier red.FPE file and look at the bottom part you notice that anim statement is not used.
This is the new character control stuff that works with the stock scripts.
They are listed out just like the anim statements but function a bit different

There is a file called Uber Soldier Red.txt which is the animations that that model style has and what they do.
Now take a look at the AIAnims section.
Explanation of the LUA commands to control AI Animations
function CharacterControlUnarmed(e)
SendMessageI("charactercontrolunarmed",e);
end
function CharacterControlLimbo(e)
SendMessageI("charactercontrollimbo",e);
end
function CharacterControlArmed(e)
SendMessageI("charactercontrolarmed",e);
end
function CharacterControlFidget(e)
SendMessageI("charactercontrolfidget",e);
end
function CharacterControlDucked(e)
SendMessageI("charactercontrolducked",e);
end
function CharacterControlStand(e)
SendMessageI("charactercontrolstand",e);
end
function SetCharacterToWalk(e)
SendMessageI("setcharactertowalkrun",e,0);
end
function SetCharacterToRun(e)
SendMessageI("setcharactertowalkrun",e,1);
end
function SetCharacterToStrafeLeft(e)
SendMessageI("setcharactertostrafe",e,0);
end
function SetCharacterToStrafeRight(e)
SendMessageI("setcharactertostrafe",e,1);
end

Lee's explanation to me:


This is all new to me and I dont mess with it much.
You transfer your animations to these where they would best fit, based on whether you want the AI armed or not or with different weapons. There will be a lot of trial and error, best to match your animations to this if possible for the stock scripts to work with the least hassle.

;AIAnims
csi_relaxed1 = 900,999
csi_relaxed2 = 1000,1282
csi_relaxedmovefore = 1290,1419
csi_cautious = 900,999
csi_cautiousmovefore = 1325,1419
csi_unarmed1 = 3000,3100
csi_unarmed2 = 3430,3697
csi_unarmedconversation = 3110,3420
csi_unarmedexplain = 4260,4464
csi_unarmedpointfore = 4470,4535
csi_unarmedpointback = 4680,4745
csi_unarmedpointleft = 4610,4675
csi_unarmedpointright = 4540,4605
csi_unarmedmovefore = 3870,3900
csi_unarmedmoverun = 3905,3925
csi_unarmedstairascend = 5600,5768
csi_unarmedstairdecend = 5800,5965
csi_unarmedladderascend1 = 4148,4110
csi_unarmedladderascend2 = 4148,4255
csi_unarmedladderascend3 = 4225,4255
csi_unarmedladderdecend1 = 4255,4225
csi_unarmedladderdecend2 = 4225,4148
csi_unarmeddeath = 4800,4958
csi_unarmedimpactfore = 4971,5021
csi_unarmedimpactback = 5031,5090
csi_unarmedimpactleft = 5171,5229
csi_unarmedimpactright = 5101,5160
csi_inchair = 3744,3828
csi_inchairsit = 3710,3744
csi_inchairgetup = 3828,3862
csi_swim = 3930,4015
csi_swimmovefore = 4030,4072

csi_stoodnormal = 100,205
csi_stoodrocket = 6133,6206
csi_stoodfidget1 = 100,205
csi_stoodfidget2 = 210,318
csi_stoodfidget3 = 325,431
csi_stoodfidget4 = 440,511
And so on....

Once this is all done then you start testing it in the engine and see how it came out.
Do keep in mind that this system is still evolving and things could change with it as more work gets added to the engine.

There are a few classes of characters and they all have specific ways they work with the stock scripts.

Soldiers - Have the animations for waypoint use. Some are defenders, some use flak weapons, such as the RPG, some are just setup to outright seek and destroy the player.

Zombies - No ability stock to use waypoints, they work based on range from the player.

Medieval - They could use waypoints, or be free roaming characters.

Fantasy - they have a different way that they can be used depending on whether they come off the ground or not, if they are oversized or not.

That is about all the info I have.
And it still wont do you any good unless you dive deep into it.
Sorry if I make you angry.

As to your initial post.

It's a big subject and not one that can just be typed in a few lines here, it involved a lot o different things, but i'll try to explain it in layman's terms for now.

You don't import a models animations, you import the model and if it has animations attached to it then they will automatically be imported with it.

You don't have to worry about doing anything special (with most basic animations) to get them into gameguru, however the tricky part is getting them to work. There are multiple ways of doing this depending on what types of animations, what types of models and what you want to do with them.

This is why people don't jump in to help right away on these things, they need to know a lot more info than you are telling them.

There's two main types of animation to deal with, basic animation (ie a door opening and closing), and character animations. These need to be prepped in their FPE files and it's different depending on what you want the animations for.

Basicallly what you need to know in advance is the start and end frame for each animation in your model.

For example I may have a door model with an open and close animation, the open animation may start at frame 1 and end on frame 30, and the close animation may start at 31 and end at 60. Gameguru needs to know what these are, so in this case you would put the following in the FPE:

animmax = 2
anim0 = 1,30
anim1 =31,60

Note: animmax is the number of animations you have, and the first animation is always anim0

For characters it's a similar process but instead of using the anim0, anim1, anim2 etc commands you only use anim0 and set animmax to 1, then add your animations to the list of csi_**** commands, if you look in the FPE file for any character you will see them all listed, they're fairly self explanatory, you just add the start and end frames for each animation after the = by the relevant command. For example if your walk animation started at 1 and ended at 250, then you would add the following:


csi_unarmedmovefore = 1,250

That's just the prep work, once you have that done then you need to have an lua script to call those animations, the character ones are fairly simple to use as long as you put the right frames in the right place under the csi list, once they're prepped you should be able to just use one of the built in AI scripts such as ai_soldier.lua

If it's something with your own basic anims and you want to run them via LUA then you need to create a script which uses the animation calls to run them, you can find a list of the animation commands in the global.lua file I told you about previously.

There's a lot more to it, but that's the very basics, and should get you started.

I know you didn't like that people told you to read other scripts and figure it out, but with LUA that is simply the easiest way to learn, look at a script that has the type of commands you need and see how they're used, then try them out in your own script.

1. Read the basic guide to lua scripting posted here and on steam.
2. Look at other scripts and see how they are put together, they're quite logical most of the time.
3. Give it a try.

If you just can't get it right then post what you have tried in the script forum and ask for help, you'll get a much better response if you show you have attempted to do it yourself and failed.

Also, if you really want to learn about check out lua.org there's a lot of info available there.

Also, for basic animations, check out Unfamillias video guide:

@Belidos: before you treat me like i have no idea what i'm talking about, you might want to properly read what i said.
then you would have noticed that i already mentioned that i've learned lua via the official documentation (that is lua.org) and also the lua functions from GG itself. however the explaination of some functions lack details.
anyways i know that you create custom functions with lua, but i was talking about the hardcoded ones.
if you think lua is a complex language you should try to code in a real programming language like C or even ASM, compared to that, lua is pretty easy afterall its just a simple scripting language...
anyways the point still stands, the documentation is lacking a lot of fundamental details!
the lua documentation even has duplicate entries for the file system and fpe file stuff its in there twice if you scroll down, which means it wasn't done with much care and still nobody noticed..
that being said, please just stay out of this if you don't have anything constructive to say.

in response to your 2nd post (that i just saw now after replying to your first):
you said:
>"I know you didn't like that people told you to read other scripts and figure it out, but with LUA that is simply the easiest way to learn"

its not that i don't like it. its what i did the past weeks and i learned a lot from it sure that works, but not everything is in example scripts and it takes too much time that for every little thing you get stuck with instead of being able to look into an official documentation, you have to search a forum, read tons of posts till you may find what you need or download tons of scripts, read and understand them etc and that is just annoying if a software is based on "you have to search the forum and hope someone had the same problem before". i think you really misunderstand me. i'm not too lazy to look, its just that it makes no sense to have vital information not mentioned in the documentation. also again people offten point to the old FPSC forum that i can not access (at least not the attachments) so i can't read those scripts and try to understand it!
well to end this as i don't want to argue, thanks for your 2nd post and the extra details, thatone was much more helpful and i appreciate it

@pirate myke:

first of all thanks for your detailed answer!

> "what 3d program are you using to know what animation exist in the model?"

like i mentioned in the original post i have a designer who did some models for me.
she is using max, substance painter and several other tools.

> "FBX format is not going to work right now."

well the latest update said FBX support is there and i just imported a static model as fbx just fine.
the thing is i would also like it with animations.

> "It will need to be in x format to even stand a chance of getting into game guru right now."

thats not true, i've imported several fbx models now and yes many don't work, but there are some that do work even proprly scaled and with texture!
so anyhow you said it would automatically import them. i tried converting them to .x with blender (used v 2.69) and then importing with entity workshop and when i load it into GG its static.

> "Once you manage to get thru that, then you will need to record the animation sequences (walk, run, attacks, death, hit or damage to the character, other animations you may want), on a piece of paper to be hand entered into
the fpe file at the bottom in the animation section you listed in your first post."

ok now we get to the actual part i'm having problems with, where to find the animation frame numbers?
i personally use blender by the way, but i jut know the basics. i'm more of a programmer so i got myself a designer todo the models.
i can create own models, apply textures, import/export etc the basic things, but i didn't mess with th animation part yet, hence my question.
i mean isn't there a way to find the frame numbers easily in an already existing model ? thats all i need to know
also i appreciate the details about the "anim" statements a lot as they are currently undocumented and that was all i wanted to find out..
lee's comment is also very helpful thanks! i will have a look at those internal AI functions too, however currently i don't need character models.
its models like computers etc, but some have animations that i'd also like to get into GG.

just for the record, you guys wouldn't have had to lecture me and treat me like i just bought a computer. i'm programming since the 90s

ps: pirat myke no hard feelings you don't make me angry don't worry, i'm just fed up that i constantly have to browse the forum to find info that should be in the official documentation.

To find the animation numbers you have to make note of them when you make them, or go back tot he 3d modelling program and go through the frames and note them down, there may be other ways but i'm not sure how.

Animated fbx is not available yet. Period.

only static is ready as this feature has only been in place for a couple of weeks.
There are quite a few versions of FBX. we are currently running thru 100's of FBX models to iron out the many flavors from many programs.

Again animated FBX is not going to work right now. Use x file format. Get this x file exporter from this link. http://mjblosser.com/kw-x-port-for-3ds-max/

Use the version of the max version your modeler is using. If they are using 2016, then the 2015 version will work. If they are using 2017, then max changed there formats again and Mr Blosser does not know if he can get the xfile exporter to function for the new 2017 3ds max. Another reason we started the FBX import feature.

I have no clue about blender at all. I use max, So again you will need to trial and error your way thru it.

Ask the person who modeled the animated models in Max to give you the frame numbers and what they do. They modeled and animated it, they should have given you a list or at least be able to produce one for you. Try importing the model into blender and see if you can see the animation frames.

We all have to browse the forum, Documentation is changing to fast with the new features. Just part of the beast right now.

Did you establish a user name for the classic forums, if so then you should be able to get all downloads that are offered there.

ah ok i didn't know animations weren't supported in fbx yet. thanks a lot for all the details this should solve my problems!
as for the old forums, i couldn't register when i try to i get dropped into my account here and can only select to go to the GG forums, but not the old ones.
if i return to those it still doesn't show me as logged in. thought it might have set a cookie but apparently you need to have registered previously to the old forums and new users can't access it.

I wasn't trying to treat you like you have no idea, I was just trying to give as much info as possible, not just for you but for anyone else with a similar query in the future, it wasn't really just to give you advice, it was more meant to explain why some people won't just give out information to every question. But if that's how people are going to react then i'll just not bother in future.

then open up your own thread if you want to enlighten other users, i had a specific problem i needed to solve and didn't need lectures about lots of unrelated things. for example your first post was all about how to learn lua, but i know it already. if you check the title of the original post you can see that its about model animations. you just didn't read properly and now you re whining that "if thats how people react" ..well then don't lecture people about nonsense and stick to the topic. i appreciate the things you told me that were actually on topic! so its all good.

however the documentation is still lacking in my opinion and i know how it is when a program is in development. i have several commercial applications that i also have to document, so i know that you can't document every possible feature and combination, but there are fundemental things missing in the official GG docs and thats a fact!

you can't expect that every user constantly has the time to search the forums for bits of information. i understand that if you want to learn something, you have to dive into it and get your hands dirty sure, but there are certain things that simply SHOULD be in the official docs and not burried in 2 different forums. the problem with the outdated forum information is still an issue. you get told to look on the old FPSC forums for info, but can't access it ..and when you ask for info you get told to look there or in the docs. its been 2 times now that a mod told me "its in the docs" when it wasn't and they later realized themselfs.
then again i get told to search the forum and look at old scripts, which i can't download since they are attachments in the old FPSC forum.... and when you complain you just assume its somone who is too lazy to read the forums. i see this is a tight little community that grew with the FPSC, but for new people there is a lot of things you guys assume to be there, that isn't ..as you all are used to it and had access to the info on the old forums so you know the workarounds and little tricks already from FPSC, however for new users its confusing at times.

if pirate myke wasn't so helpful i'd be [MOD_EDIT Please dont use profanity] out of luck and would have to waste much more time reverse engineering scripts and models just to figure out how undocumented things work. its like researching undocumented windows functions and sorry but for a game engine there should be a proper documentation that covers everything in detail and not just a simple introduction. take the lua doc's as example where it says: 'you don't need to know what "e" is' ..lol but i want to know when i'm just trying to learn the language/engine no? .. just one thing that bothered me at first when i was larning lua. i wanted to understand it properly and not just parts of it, so i first went to the official lua documentation and then back to GG's lua docs.

that all being said, whats the problem with asking for a better documentation? you really think the docs are perfect as they are now??
i think there should be more info for advanced users too. i mean currently it seems all based for cassual game designers who want to make games for friends, but in no way commercial games. however its being advertised as such and was my intention. i don't want to create games for friends, so i have to put more effort behind it and make sure everything is solid. hence why i try to learn the ins and outs of the engine, but like i said its incredibly time consuming if you have to read tons of forum posts just to find bits of info that should be in the docs in first place! and again much of it i can't even access, because its on the old FPSC forum, but people keep pointing to it for answers!!!

I don't know who told you to look at old FPSC Classic scripts (which should same as here be in code snippets and not attachments anyhow) but they are written in fpi and not Lua so not likely to be much help. GameGuru handles characters and entities in a completely different way and I wouldn't advise anyone to check out Classic as a guide.

just look around there are tons of posts refering/linking to the old forums
anyways its not only about lua scripts, but also other files. its basically all attachments on the old forums.
btw i didn't need it for character models rightnow, i needed the details for a computer model with some blinking lights animations.

Your frustration is down to looking for the wrong info, in your OP you are asking for info on the anim frames in the fpe. These are bone or vertex anim calls, if you want flashing light animations you would be better to look at decals or atlas sprite texture animations, your question is shader related.

thanks i'll have a look at decals then. however the complaints about the documentation are in general not only based on my original question. its about the general concept of the documentation, that its not centralized but spread over various places. take for example the material index, its in the upload guide for 3d models in the store, not in the official docs, yet when you ask about it you get told its in the docs inside the GG folder. its indeed frustrating when you first look in the docs,scripts etc and can't find the info then come to the forum just to be told look in the docs and be treated like you're too lazy to "get your hands dirty".

anyways apparently i'm the onlyone that wants a proper documentation as anyone active here seems to be an old user from FPSC who have access to the old forum and know all the tricks so for them its not an issue.

so as for the model animations i have a fbx file with animations, but i could only import it static into GG (now i know that animations with fbx cant be imported yet thanks to pirate myke, which wasn't noted anywhere). i also have a copy of the model in .x format, but it didn't work with GG nor entity workshop, so i requested a fbx file and thatone worked.
so only thing left is to get the animations also working and thats what i needed help with

Fair enough, but there's absolutely no reason to be so obnoxious and rude just because you got information you didn't need, a simple thanks for the reply but that's not the info I need, would have been far more civil. I do apologise for the "i won't bother" remark though, you caught me at a bad time and really upset me with your attitude. Anyway, water under the bridge, live and learn, and all that malarky.

As to the model, if the .x model you have isn't working still (if it isn't just because you haven't set the fpe up right) I would be quite happy to take a look at it for you, there are a few issues with importing entities with anims. There's a couple of pieces of software you may need to run them through to make the anims compatible, let me know if you have any issues and I'll happily take a look at the model for you.

i wasn't being rude at all, if i would have been rude i would have been censored by the mods already
sorry that you are so sensitive and can't seem to deal with critique, but if you would read properly first before you post you could have avoided this.
you reply to my post with the assumption that i know nothing at all and just complain over nothing and you keep trying to justify why the chaotic documentation is ok as it is which it clearly isn't. then you lecture me as if i would be too lazy to look at the forums and scripts first, what i did already...

well just compare the GG docs with other software and again for the record i'm a developer myself i write documentations too for commercial applications, so its not like i don't understand what its all about and just complain because i'm too lazy to search the forums.

also again if you would read properly i mentioned before that i don't want to import a character model. i just keep repeating myself and its pointless. apparently you guys are fine with the way it is since you don't have to bother, but if you would be new to GG and wouldn't have had access to the FPSC forums already i guess you would see it differently too. its annoying when you try to learn something and instead of following a documentation you have to read tons of forum posts and scripts just to find bits of information. i mean sometimes its ok, but for GG there is too much burried in the forums that should be in the official docs.

the best example is that when you ask on the forum and get pointed to non-existant things were even the mods say "oh i thought its in the docs".. happened to me 2 times already and i only got GG since march. so this is obviously proof that the documentation is incomplete. i mention these problems in the hopes to get them fixed, not to upset anyone.. however i just get told i got an attitude problem, because i criticize the sloppy documentation lol nice..

I had a big wall of text all typed out in response to this thread, but I deleted it. My cooler head prevailed!


EDIT: Is there a badge for that?

yes there is, here you go

Good boy.

@ 0x7f

You're right, the program is not sufficiently documented, many here know, and we accept because we know the reason.

Most of us (each in its own way) are building a project, a project called GameGuru, and we are ready (some more than others) to support the project, we are involved in its development, and when I say development , speaking in general terms, because obviously I do not belong to the development team.

And this means being patient, knowledgeable about the program and the difficulties the team to maintain the program.
This implies also try as far as possible, be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

It's like when I decide to be a fan of a very small football team, I do so with the firm intention of accepting the fact that we will lose many games, will not have parking at the stadium, and we will fit very few in it, but it's my team, and I want it as it is, and I accept it.

GG is growing, and I know that someday will be the program we all want, and this will be good for all of us.

I know that there are other 3D engines running at almost full capacity, but I did not have the opportunity to live their development from the beginning, GameGuru has offered me this opportunity and I will not waste it.

But it would be foolish of me to say that you have no reason, because you have it.

3com

Entity work shop is for static entities only and is for fpsc classic.

@3com yes ok if you see it that way fine but i bought it as i wanted an engine to develope commercial games with and GG advertises as such.
i've choosen GG as it seemed to save time, however the time spent searching on the forum for infos i could have aswell started with a proper engine. i could even write my own, but i don't have the time to work on it for a year or more. see i'm a single developer and need to make money, so when i work on a game i have the intention to sell it later. when browsing the forum its valuable time i lose that i could spend working.

just take the animation stuff as example. i only needed a hint on what exactly anim1 and anim0 is for, if it was in the docs it would have taken 5 minutes max. now it takes days of arguing on the forum, its just pointless. instead i get told to "read all posts from the last 6 years on the forum and then trial and error" excuse me but that is redicilous. i mean i know its true as otherwise you won't find the info lol, but its unprofessional to document a game engine like that. i mean people want to create games with it so they need to understand the ins and outs properly, otherwise you just have sh*t on greenlight that ruins the reputation of GG. just look at the comments of game guru games on steam. its terrible, because the games are done sloppy.. if people would understand the engine better and make proper use of lua,own assets etc then there could be actually good games out there!

anyways i get that this is a tight community and i'm not trying to troll here or something, but i've been nice all along and just got fed up when vital info is not available and i'm constantly getting treated like i'm too lazy to look at docs or example scripts when in fact the info is not there. i see that most here just use it to play around without intention to make any real games out of it. then yes i wouldn't mind wasting tons of time on the forum and see the program grow and whatever, but frankly i didn't buy it to see it grow that being said, i really like GG and i just mention some points that need to be fixed, i don't see why that is such a big issue

@seppgirty thanks yes i've noticed too after looking at the exported .x files again that the animation stuff gets stripped

It's only a "tight" community because we are all here for the same reason: to make games, for fun or for profit, and we understand where the engine stands. You have, unfortunately, bought into an engine that is far (and I mean FAR!!!) from complete. To document it properly and keep it up to date would not be practical for two guys. Not only would it slow development, but much would be quickly outdated (DX9 to DX11, focus on FBX vs. outdated X, substance? VR? Multiplatform?). Epic made an incredible effort to document theirs, but by around UE4.4, a lot was already outdated and irrelevant. I haven't seen much in the way of updates that are relevant to 4.5+. I've read your other threads and I don't consider you a troll by any means. Your questions were legit, and people helped where they could. That's the major strength of these forums, and the product itself. With each update to this engine, we all learn, and we learn from each other. If any documentation is to come about, it will most likely follow in the footsteps of FPSC Classic: Community generated. Lee and Ravey are much too busy to do it, and I think most people (who also want everything ASAP) would rather have it this way.

Earlier, I started a post with an attempt to help you with your original post. As I typed my reply, complete with links to threads that might help, I read all the follow-up posts from people who were trying to help you as well. As I read your replies, my post became rather nasty, and using the word "troll" would have been too polite. Although you never saw it, you still deemed it fit to post a reply to me. Thank you for the badge, dude. Just one example of your maturity in this thread. Did you PM your resume to Belidos? How else would he have known your level of experience? He is among the many helpful around here. Please respect his effort, at the very least. You were both rude and condescending in your replies. Last I checked, Lua IS a REAL language, with actual words and stuff. I wrote my first line of code in 1977. Slinging dates out there means nothing. I never chose programming as a career, but have experience in several, including C. (If you want a complete list, PM me, I might answer). There is absolutely no reason for anyone to try a "REAL" language if Lua is the only one that will work.

Every once in a while, someone comes along in these forums who knows more than the developers. I've always wondered why. If you can write your own engine, go for it. I think Lee has a pretty impressive track record. He's written two programming languages (that I know of). He's listed as an Intel Black Belt coder, (#26 in the world when there were only 26, I don't know where he ranks now, or if there even is a ranking; still, pretty impressive). He has created game engines before, as well. He was on the team that created Lego Mindstorms. What have you done lately? Please post your resume so nobody risks insulting you again. 'Nuff said.

Ok. Can we all just bring it down a notch please.

I think it has been well established that documentation is a much needed commodity for this engine. All side have spoke there piece. We usually get one of these per month.

I have been fortunate to have been around a while, not as long as some of the others. But we have always wanted proper documentation.

Most of the time the community comes together with information that is needed. Even going as far as hosting wiki threads on as much as we can put together. Putting together unofficial documents and presenting them to the community.

I probably started this mess by pointing to the documents provided with out looking myself first. My bad.
So I will take full responsibility for this miscommunication and point to where I believe the info can be found.

So lets all get back to learning from each other and assisting where we can and take it from here.

No bickering with each other or I will be forced to lock the thread as it has pretty much run its coarse.

Yes we are a very small team and taking the time to document each and every addition and function has been difficult to start and maintain.

I am not making excuses for the lack of the documentation most want. but as you have found out already. anything written goes out of date pretty quick. The changelog.txt on the Game Guru folder is the most current log of new commands and how somethings work. Also the global.lua file is the most current for the LUA scripting.

The forums are the next best place to look and ask questions.

Half of my post cut off for some reason.

Continue.

Probably my fault for the miscommunication in the first place by sending a user to the documentation without rechecking it myself. My bad.

So lets please stop the bickering with each other as it does nobody any good.

Lets get back to helping and supplying the information that we have and have learned from each other and get this thread back on track.

If this does not get back on track, then I will be forced to lock this thread, for it basically has run its course.

Thanks.

I just had a look at the docs in the C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Game Guru\Docs folder and opened up "Importing models into GameGuru.doc" and was a bit stunned there is no mention of animmax, anim0, anim1 and/or csi_<name of anim> etc as I did a search in the doc.

I must admit documentation is lacking but as a developer myself, most people/users of the end product when you write documentation don't even read the documentation and end up posting on forums instead which is why I do video guides instead. Also, documentation will change quite a lot over a period of time and be almost out of date by the time it's released and get to read it. Writing documentation also takes ages to put in place.

@0x7f:
as already mentioned, any models made should come with a list containing the name of the animation and the start and stop frames. You can then apply these to the csi_<anim name> e.g. see pics

Animmax = the maximum number of animations in your model that you want to specify
Anim0 = the frames you want the editor to play if you set playanimineditor = 1

Anim1 or csi_<anim name> as per Uber soldier example are the frames that make up that animation description eg swimming etc.

As you know LUA already I don't need to tell you that you can control animations using scripting code also.

As much as it would be good to have centralised docs which at the moment extends the folder above, we all have to search forums and/or watch broadcasts or whatever so your not alone.

I have attached 2 LUA scripts which you can attach to your character model and then flick through the frames once you get your model imported.

Hi all,

As Myke as said, we do understand the need for better documentation, but as GameGuru is under development, documentation can become outdated quickly and so it is felt internally that full docs are best left until the product is stable.

There are plenty of 3rd party docs and videos which I know users find helpful in the short term, many of which are related to modelling.

If you're looking for a Lua guide, there is a comprehensive one here:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=398177770

Can I remind everyone that these forums are intended to be a friendly place and ask that posters remember that.

Many thanks,

SC

@Jerry: i know some things are outdated fast, but there are certain settings that won't change anytime soon such as the material index or the anim statements which is also not documented.

i didn't request a complete documentation of every possible function, but not even the basics are covered properly and thats what i complained about.
as for .x and .fbx i don't get that anyways since both are outdated since years, but oh well.. again i'm not complaining that i have to look in the forums sometimes, but a better documentation would save time and its not a huge time investment for the developers to create. like i said, i have to do these things myself, so i know what its about and that you can't possibly document every little thing all the time.

thanks for your effort to try and help me, but the others already gave me all the info i need. also check again lua is a scripting language not a real programming language (google to find the difference, you seem to have enough time browsing forums so i don't have to explain it myself). also if you would read properly my reply was refering to belidos saying lua is complex, which it isn't compared to a real programming language where you have memory handling and such which makes it far more complex. that was the only point, even lua.org says quote "lua is easy to learn" so don't blame me, i wasn't trying to piss anyone off with that its just a fact.

and to your last paragraph i never said lee is a bad coder, in fact i had a look at the source code of FPSC before and its very well done and clean code he is for sure a great coder and i never questioned that!
i can also agree that he is probably more skilled in programming than me. i don't know how you come to the conclusion that i think otherwise just because i said the documentation lacks details?
anyways fyi i code in c,c#,java,asm and scripting languages php,perl,bash,lua but seriously i don't have to show off my skills here for you otherwise you just say i brag if you really want to know you can PM me...



@Pirate Myke: i understand and thanks for all the details it helped a lot! sorry for the mess this caused, wasn't my intention


@Bored of the Rings: thanks for the additional info and the scripts! i've been playing with the ai_viewanimations.lua before, but the animation finder sounds good will have to try this


@Scene Commander: i've learned lua already from lua.org along with the GG guide, but thanks for the info. personally i think the guide could be a bit more detailed, but ok i get the point that you want to wait till the product is more stable, fair enough. i was under the assumption that GG is out of beta, but i'll try to be more patient then. personally i add things to the documentation as i add new features to my software. of course i also don't document everything, but i make these updates to the docs so i don't have to do all at once later and then might miss something. maybe something you may want to adapt ..but i understand that everyone has his own way of doing things, just thought i'd mention it.

Out of early Access ...which now many would consider it now in Beta .... It will probably develop itself out of Beta as time goes by ..
Like most other engines they will never actually be finished ... just continued.

With over 1000 free models just been converted I'm pretty happy were still using .X at the moment and all those packs I own are not just wasted.
Along with Bored Of The Rings Welder tools I'm in a happy place