Hi to evey one

I don't see a good future for this game engine.
You spent TOO much time doings DLC, and less in the engine itself.

We are in 2016 and the engine is very very very old, look like a 3d engine back to 1998

The only thing i see is to work MORE on the engine, LESS dlc creation because to me it has no sens to work ond DLC...

A game engien doesn't need DLC packs every month a true 3d game engine need SERIOUS updates.

Why you dont FOCUS on the engine, why is no real improvment of the engine itself, is still laggy, slow, badly updated.

Just for opening the engine it takes more than 30s....it's too much.
The terrain is TOO BIG, why is not possible for the user, to have CHOICES, about the terrain size FROM the begining at the start of the dev, and NOT in the game when launched, thats another stupid thing....

Also the terrain doesn't need to have a TEXTURE in the engine!!!!!

In a 3d game engine every one KNOW 3d models have NO TEXTURE AT ALL!!

thats an artistic and personal choice, here when we launch the engine, you have GRASS by default thats [Mod Edit: No swearing, zero, not even abbreviated] terrible, THAT ground, need to be without ANY texture.
how do you expect people to develop real games with an engine with so many stuff missing, aslo those basic details have to be in place by default.

This engine need REAL improvments, not DLC packs every month, improved, corrected etc...!!!!

PLEASE work on the ENGINE!!!
STOP WORKING ON DLC!!!!

so your not entirely happy then?

nope i tried 5min again the engine.... really really need to be improved, i have when they are working on DLC because that means, LESS engine improvment...

Kindly note DLC's are done by 3rd party artists, this in no ways affects the development of the engine, the complaint regarding dlc's is unfounded, only aspect that TGC is involved with regarding DLC is quality control and preparing media for steam.

I hope this assists, with regards to your complaint.

Thanks !

Hi imothep85, all the DLC's are created and maintained by third party artists independent of the development team, Lee ravey etc have no part in the creation of these except for uploading them to the game guru steam page. The team is at the minute working on save and load progress due to be finished quite soon as Lee details in his usually daily development blogs. Worry not for the production of the DLC's never has and never will (hopefully) have any hindrance to the development of the engine as the people who create the engine and the people who make the DLC's do not dabble in each other's game guru worlds.

@BOTR, I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I saw your reply

I actually think GameGuru is going in the right direction, its got its quricks but seeing the passion of the developers and what THEY want it to be is what keeps me at it, when I want a 3d engine that does what you describe I open Unity, when I want a bit of fun I open GameGuru

the point is, that I think your missing, THE EASY GAME MAKER, 4 days I been trying to setup a 3d environment in AGK, takes 4 minuets in GameGuru..... that is exactly the point of its existence

@PartTimeCoder- am glad someone got it

On serious side, DLC not done by the programmers Ravey/Lee but 3rd party. Yes, there are more things to be added and they are working on Save/Load , but they would need a larger team of programmers to speed up the process of implementing the outstanding list on the feature vote in a short time. There simply isn't a "press a button and create instantly" program that does that (ok - I'm thinking of writing one-will take a hundred years or so but I'm sure I'll get there )

The last Changelogs where a long list, with things regarding to the engine.
30 Seconds loading is a long time? Look at the loadingtimes from the last WWE2k16 game PC Version.

Make a great game and everybody will be ok about loadingtimes. It's possible with GG.

Ask anyone that uses UE4 or Cryengine about loading times 30 seconds in GG is a god send

Yes I smiled when I read the post. Seems imothep85 hasn't tried them. I tried Unreal late last year. It takes a lot longer to load and start any game in it than GG. It actually took over 8 hours just to load up a demo scene! The it took several more to run it! It looked pretty but I need a faster computer, lol.

Compiling shader...

You really are angry with GG?

I understand wanting to do things and not to do them, not to have the necessary tools creates frustration; I myself have created new ways of opening doors, but I can not sell them, because GG does not support the type of animations applied yet. It is a project that is waiting for better times.

GG can be a tool that can help overcome difficult times, it worked with me.

Meanwhile we enjoy what we have, without forgetting what we want.

3com

Alright, lets go through this point by point.



The coding team is usually very little involved in the DLC's, other people are working on these.



This is not your own opinion, this is empirically false.
Game guru uses models that have as many polygon as an entire level in 98 and shaders that didn't even exist back then.
I suggest that you take a good look at those old games again before making such a statment.

These are usermade game guru projects. LINK

This is unreal from 1998 LINK

Technically game guru would, if you take the slightly above average user be more in the Xbox 360 generation of gaming.



You have a POINT here that development was a little slow concidering UPDATES lately. ...



3DS max takes way longer and so do plenty image editing softwares. To be honest, most modern game engines take even longer. 30 seconds are not an issue...take a sip from your cup of tea if you will. If this really bothers you, I don't think you have a very objective opinion.



Thats true. Setting up level scale would be neat...I am also in favour of starting on an entirely blank map.



Terrain usually has a default texture applied to it. I see nothing wrong with that however, I do also not see anything wrong with being able to switch it off and see the wireframe. Please don't use that many exclamation marks.



What engine? I had freelance gigs for the Unreal Engine and Unity.... my models had materials on them in both engines (materials use textures). They have them in cryengine, leadwerks, shiva engine, source, unity, unreal engine 1 to 4, Jupiter Ex, Fpscreator, irrlicht, torque and every other 3D engine I ever came across. Find me that engine that has no textures by default.



They are working on the engine, other people are working on the DLC. Working on the engine takes time and I can understand your frustration.
We need to be able to construct interiors properly, lightmapping, even better performance and AI that is able to enter 3D meshes... what ever texture is the default setting of the terrain is entirely trivial to me. You made zero of the above points and complained about the 30 seconds the software needs to launch and the terrain. Priorities....



-Wolf

Hello,

Indeed, developers GameGuru are highly motivated and it's good
Regarding the engine is faster than any other. I also develops scenes with EU4 and when I see the slowness of calculation for shaders scenes is simply atrocious ^^
GameGuru with the executable of the game will look for elements directly (your game is ready-loaded in the IDE) which allows ultra-fast test your game.
Certe compilation of games is still being developed (mix textures, missing LUA scripts, etc) but this can be remedied simply (by cons I would have preferred GameGuru does not encrypt compiled a game, because its allows the game developer change textures or files that have a problem with a simple copy and paste files).

By cons I must say I am impressed by the speed of the engine for development; TGC developers are not much on GameGuru yet it moves fast.

I think GameGuru going in the right direction.
What is needed is in fact solve the following key points:

0 - Better lightmapping
1 - Include DirectX 11 (in progress)
2 - Saving and loading parts (in progress)
3 - Ability to edit shaders (FX) with an integrated editor to GameGuru with a 3D preview in real time on a random object (like this one can change and directly see the effects of Shader!)
4 - Ability to increase, reduce the size of the map of the IDE (for those who want an "open world" of several square kilometers it is necessarily added in the future)
5 - Improved considerably the enemy AI (because at the moment there are many problems on that)
6 - Add many new Shaders (lightmaps above) to create a realistic atmosphere scenes as accurate as EU4 or CryEngine.
7 - It will be necessary at all costs that the developers included in the engine function that would put several different animated herbs in the game and the field with 16 possible textures (this would make in a single card, snowy land, desert or others).

The list goes on but it will come
Develop an engine that is as hard to develop an operating system ^^

Be patient.
Nothing prevents you also create small games friendly waiting and remember also that GameGuru is a cheap motor (less than £ 30) and TGC allows everyone to sell games without perceiving anything in return!
I do not know many company providing this service!

In revenche I already offer TGC to "freely" (under strict conditions) the sources of the engine on a secure platform and volunteer recruiting the best C ++ developers / LUA forum to improved faster the motor (after verification and validation TGC).

This could help the engine advance 2-3 times faster.

Then do not forget also that the list of future additions is here to show you what will be done in the next 2 to 3 years
So yes it is long ^^! But it's best to take time to create a good engine that going too fast and realize we all missed :-(

Finally be aware that developing an engine is very hard today; because additions as carried developers on a year are often already outdated because 3D technology evolves faster than a motor.
example:
If GameGuru to today near graphics from those encountered in 2005, the time to update it for the graphics stick with those of 2016, the graphics will already surpassed by the next games that come out in 5 years .. .
So we must also say that GameGuru always be a small delay; but the graphics do not necessarily make a good game ^^!

I ended with: I prefer a video game very intelligently constructed with a superb script and with average graphics, a game with great graphics but the scenario is no

Attached you will find scenes made with GameGuru which proves that with some knowledge you are able to make fabulous scene

@Devcore: I fixed your post... having better shaders and direct x 11 is pointless if we don't get an updated lighting system. You make very good points otherwise.

What makes graphics (and above all aesthetics) is the 3D art involved. This direct X fetish going on here is bewildering to me.

Oops. I'm Sorry.
Effectively
Do you know why the lightmaps appear only when you get close to her?
If I put a lightmaps with a light value of 50 or 100 it appears only when I approach a few meters from her.
In revenche with lightmaps with high value (above 500, for example) the latter are visible from far away.
thank you ^^

hello
I feel that game guru is doing alright, in fact if you are a decent programer and modeler, you can make a game with game guru. in fact there are few people doing very cool work check out bsp, and wolf, rolfy,starmind and thats just a few that i can think of. And with future improvements I'm sure they will step up to the plate and push the limits. So sit back and just relax and do some waiting . And in the long run you will see that game guru is the best.

I'm also reasonably happy with GameGuru's progress and the community is probably its biggest strength. Also the DLC's usually result in features going in that were previously unplanned to support them like a better 3rd person camera and updates or fixes to support unofficial packs on the store.

The only aspect of development in TGC I don't agree with is working down this community voted list of features. A developer needs to listen to its community but also take responsibility for the technical path and decisions which need to be made for something like a game engine.

For example if the community votes for having fluffy easter bunnies running around when the lighting or AI system is completely broken it just doesn't make sense to give that priority. I think there are some features which TGC need to acknowledge are high priority and manage the community requests another way. To be fair the community list is an improvement over FPSC where there is literally no planned updates but I think it could be improved.

I would agree but fortunately you can only rely on the top 2 votes as the others can change drastically especially once one feature is finished and the top 2 right now seem quite sensible and the editor is a long awaited feature ..

Lee often says things like .. I could add that in a day or ..That would be easy .... for small features .....
I personally think i would rather he spent a couple of weeks doing loads of these small features which may not be the top of the list right now but are on the voting board ...But thats just my opinion .... Voting is fine if majority rule ... And its not fluffy bunnies of course

Happy Easter to all, I was not going to post however I thought about the original posters comment over night.

Having a promo is cool for the season. Though I think maybe the person who started this thread is not talking about who made the DLC. I myself would much prefer seeing the lads get back to the roots of the reason FPSC was in visioned and maybe talking about AI for example. I see people talking about Game play, it is one thing collecting and talking to npc's however this is based on a fps genre, and I am sure over 50% of the people that brought the engine want to make a fps game. To build a fps game yes we have a level/world, though there has to be enemies, or otherwise it is just a sim really. Because even a rpg has enemies. It is like having a cake with no icing.

I remember back in 06/07 seeing my first fpsc video on YT, I can not remember the guy who made it, though it was my first look a weapons in a 3d engine creator (J. Fletchers work) I was amazed.. Then I played Wehtams game.. That guy had some skill, with what he did with the Engine back then. ButterFingers took the scene in a whole new level.. Later the German guys showed us how to make things look amazing (mods or not). Airslide and Errant brought us a new step forward. Among many others, you know who you are I will not have the space to thank you all or pay my respects.

I respect that Lee is working on the Engine, My suggestion is who ever made the AI_Soldier models/files/scripts please take a look get on board with the community, come and post, talk, chat and lets work together to get this issue fixed. The AI is not on the Voting list, it is already here and it needs serious attention. The guys at TGC have the ability to get the engine up there with the rest I know.

Please be safe at Easter, on the roads etc. And have a great holiday.

To copy from another thread: "Yes. A lot of people are not educated on what makes a game look or play good and seem to vote for features that are advertised/ they recognize from other engines or even the graphics settings of games. A lot of the effects that have been voted on are completely pointless without a solid lightmapping system...which of course is underrepresented in the results list. "

@Devcore:

Do they disappear on the terrain or the entities as well? Are there many lights? I am assuming this is when real time lighting is active?



-Wolf

I not want to talk about all the features are missing in GG, because I simply have no clue about lightmapping, rendering, shaders, 3d models, but I can talk about AI. I thought a lot about it. How to improve AI, what means a realistic AI, how a person react on different situations? I had some concepts but I throw them away for different reason. I released an AI pack for FPSC and it works, but nobody cares and I want to prevent that this time.

I would like to create a good AI, but I need someone who knows what is needed. It is easy to say the AI is bad, we need a good one and damn hard to think what is really needed! If you have any concepts, pm me. I would like to hear your opinion and your suggestions. I can not say that I code a lot in Lua, so maybe I need some time to get into the 500 lines of AI code.

I would like to hear from you guys

Hi. Well I feel like I am hi-jacking this thread now. However for the sake of conversation and its Easter, if you need some ideas I have some suggestions.

1. Snap to player direction/response (reaction time is slow). I never remembered this in Reloaded. If you run behind an AI it takes a few seconds for them to turn.
2. Respond and use the surroundings. Hide and cover. Not just run around pointing the gun (sure this is animation based also) and was my reason for suggesting the artist, coder etc. Jump on board with the community and lets talk.
3. The AI does not really look in the direction of the player, and from what I can see the animation is the same (holding gun forward) When doing the below screens the AI didnt look up at me.

If you can fix that, well you sir are going to get a lot of fans

Slipstream just quoted to me.. You can not shine with out darkness... Lets unite, and back each other up. If the AI is improved the games are endless.

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/213812?page=2

Just to add to what can be done here!

For me its pretty simple, what I was hoping to see right after pledging; Everything from FPSC that is currently missing:

- Swimming
- Raise and Lower Water (in test game and in game via script)
- Bullet Holes (material index on walls for impacts)
- Command to load soundfiles from the audiobank (alternative to soundsets allowing for more than 2 sounds)

What GG really needs right now:

- AI Navigating stairs
- Possibly a navmesh system
- Better snapping control and options for building an interior level
- Better lighting
- More shaders

The AI rotation is broken, it was reported but not yet fixed, I don't know if Lee reads the bug reports but I personally feel he should, going to be difficult to make them appear smarter without this being fixed first.

AI will be worked on when they begin the building editor work I am sure. Once that is properly underway then AI should be updated to cope with the buildings made in it. I'm pretty sure Lee has said this in the past, so not that long before AI work begins.

AI's need a lot of work, since they should be ready to navigate a different levels, not just a "5 cms" heigh.
And since all is connected here, so, also we'll need waypoint improves, like set wp a different level too, like a ladder.

After achieve this as default one, so we can think in something like, jumping thru windows, talker animation, Swimming, and so on.

And if TGC are thinking about "navmesh system ", so AI's behaviour would be a bit different.
And another one, when TGC fixed AI's and make them able to navigate any level, so they has to think about to improve stock buildings to be enterables, and compatibles with the new AI's abilities. All is connected here folks. LOL

And when all this be done, so we'll want broken windows too, to pass thru>jump to the roof>enter in your neighborg house> and say "Hi!" . LOL (just kidding, guys).

I think navmesh system is quite nice in certain games, IE aventure one, but for for other like survivor game, does not.

3com

Well I think GG is going great so far, in that it enables a complete novice to create something they can give to friends etc. If you want to code you can with LUA, if not the drag and drop, yes the engine could be quicker, that will come soon, im sure. Lightmapping maybe a little slow improving in any updates but that might be because when DX11 comes to GG, we can have lots of dynamic lights with shadowing etc, at the moment the shadows can cripple the FPS on a very detailed level. AI im not too bothered as i'm not creating FPS shooters at the moment, but yes, light leaking through walls, picking up stuff like keys through walls need to be addressed, as you need to be very careful with your level design.

Terrain editor, yes, more ground textures should be a feature to be included soon, and more and better grasses. Weather too, like rain, I know we can use decals but a engine based weather system would be much better and more efficient.

Flashlight, colour, intensity and the ability to switch of the sun completely and if this is done GG should then allow dynamic lights and flashlight to enable real time shadowing, many an FPS hit on DX9, i dont know, but the option would be great.

GG has enabled me to start creating again without the need to delve too much into code although I do now do a little LUA code.

Learning all the time is good. Keep up the good work devs.

I think there are some really good points being raised concerning GG and some of the areas where improvements are definitely needed. And certainly AI is a big (and complex) subject matter that needs to be revisited ...

As was said before, GameGuru really shines when you want to put together something quickly and almost get immediate results. That's a real benefit in my book.

If one wants to go for the AAA, full-blown result, he would be better off using Unity or Unreal ... with all the accompanying work that is required. Especially Unreal is not for the fainthearted.

Having tried Unreal and Unity (and still dabbling in Unity), I know first hand that GG is indeed "the easy game maker" ... it was never advertised as "the complete AAA game maker" ...

I respect everyone's right to voice their opinion and I think it is important to do so. At the same time, I ask myself what it was that the author had hoped to achieve with the post. Is it his expectation that Lee & Co now reprioritize their development work ? Or does he merely want confirmation from the community that some things are "less than optimal" in GameGuru ?

Cheers,
Fendrik

I dont agree with it been faster then any other engine. I will say however that UE etc had years in the making, so ya there going to be more polished. On the other hand, GGs light mapper is super slow and not even worth using. GG has a ways to go before it will be on par with any other engine.

I'm guessing this result as he hasnt returned ... just a large thread

We seem to get these threads quite often! What GG should have, what it shouldn't have, which feature should be written next (because it's what the poster wants most) or which feature should have been in it from the start because "everyone knows that such and such is a standard in all game engines". These are generally written by people with obviously a great deal of experience in writing game engines, as their claims are always supported by examples (for the uninitiated, that's called sarcasm!

They are entertaining threads, though, as they kinda help fill in time between updates. Thanks, OP!

The GG engine has never loaded slow for me. Even when it was in its early stages.