well to me gameguru looks worse than fps creator and x10 looks like a kiddies toy.

so can you build structures can you edit house,s prefabs to redesign them yourself.

can you build a world in this software , until theres a demo theres no way of knowing or trying so it all looks terrible to me.

and what about importing models with animation character rigging and all that well?????????????????????????

Sorry man, but I have to say that all that sounds less like the engines problem and more like your problem.

Learn how to make custom models for prefabs, rig characters, import models, etc. yourself, as other people have done. You have plenty of tools available to learn. Use them.

I know other people havent exactly been positive about gameguru lately but again bashing it for these reasons is another story... right now as you put your opinions it really do not sound like you have put much time into gameguru if at all and expect it in such early stages of development to do such tasks for you on demand (which is not true for ANY ENGINE). Before posting something like this you should have put a little more effort into working with the software.

Just my 2 cents man.

That's a matter of opinion, and many here would disagree with you. In my opinion I find it hard to make something that looks ugly in Game Guru.


Simple answer is yes. Long answer- All of these things takes skill to do; there is no press one button to make a game. GG is constantly evolving and has many planned features on its way that will do those very things. As of right now many SKILLED users have created packs that allow you to build structures from simple editable geometry.


Once again simple answer is yes. I preach this all the time- you only get out of it what you put into it. Many have made very professional demos using the skills they have learned. I don't know what you've been looking at that is so 'terrible to you' but you obviously haven't been to the gallery to see the wonderful shots taken in GG.


Again if you have a prerigged character you can import it easily. People are doing it all the time. As Hamburger said "Learn how to make custom models for prefabs, rig characters, import models, etc. yourself, as other people have done." This is game creation; something usually done by a team of people. I don't think there is an engine out there that will fill in the gaps of your lack of experience. Seriously your attitude is coming off as immature and amateurish or honestly just plain trollish. You sound like someone who needs a whole lot of education on this subject before you give opinions just out of frustration that you can't create something that looks worth it to you. If you can't (wow I never thought I would ever say this to someone) maybe game creation is just not for you.
Best, D13

I disagree a bit but only due to GameGuru's mission statement/vision. If you were to compare FPSC's interior designing with GG (and that is what he's doing), there is a massive difference in the ease of ability to do this. Also several issues with AI. It is a fact that it is easier to build interiors with FPSC and not as easy in GameGuru.



Then explain the Character Generator? That was put higher on priority than even the Construction Kit (which is no longer being developed). What we are expecting from GG is very basic and fundamental for a game engine. Nothing wrong with that aspect of the complaint. Calling GameGuru "ugly" is something i personally wouldn't agree on.

I think Game Guru should drop the "the easy game maker" tagline as people will continue to expect everything to just work for them and have it work well without any knowledge in 3D modeling, level design, optimization and alike.

Yes interiors are more difficult now, but we have guru buildings



hope this will inspire you.

Even with Unreal 4, Unity, CryEngine you can make games which look bad.
It all depends, on how good the developer knows the tools which he's using.

I think the answers to OP's query sums it up very, very nicely. As nearly all of you have said and every game developer the world over knows, you only get out what you put in. (Anyone remember the phrase GIGO?)

True enough, there are days where I have a right tantrum with Gameguru and then presto, with a little thought, I find the problem was me all along.... but not always.

But think, when we get more options in GG, we'll just find more complex ways to hang ourselves.

@ teabone: for the record when I talked about doing tasks on demand I was more referring to one of Disturbing13's points:



But to be fair I can see your point about my comment as well. Basically I was trying to make a point that if you want to make a truly groundbreaking game with gameguru then you will have to work for it - the work will not be done only by the engine.



I second this as well. Like I posted in another thread I would much rather have a more polished and professional looking tool to make games with that required a more steep learning curve, in return for greater capabilities and features.

Starting to really wish we were just focusing on FPS creator reloaded instead like things were in the beginning.

The thing with GG (and I am in no way defending Lees' choice of phrase, that's not my problem) is that you can make games without coding or modelling and it IS easy. As GG expands and PnP script and models are added then the quality of those games will rise.

The problem is some people are expecting, and I've used this term several times, to be able to create the next Skyrim or CoD with zero planning, design or thought and that, in my view, is where most of the issues lie. They want extreme complexity with no effort. eg: I see a 2 day old player screaming for inventory and bashing GG. How is that even possible?

The best games out there took years to design and build and in most cases, it had nothing to do with the engine or the tools used.

In GG's case, the simpler it is to use, the more complex it has to be and that takes time... and money... and people.

i was coding games for the commodore computers before you lot were born , so i expect standards , i never said i hate gameguru or dislike it.

what i want is drag and drop objects of different types ,x ,obj ,3ds ,and most of all google 3d models.

im being cheecky because i think fps and x10 look better .

i would like more features should be able to create building easyier and cut parts out add bits put collision all this should be done in the same editor and textures with shaders support for AAA be nice .

it needs everything unity and ue4 cryengine can do also for people who want to make a realistic looking game , and also that character builder is ok but limited and also the models walking look like they have been on a horse all day with bandy legs .

10 YOU might be surprised.
20 goto 10


And sorry, that is not how your OP sounded. Nonetheless, your questions were answered yes in every case.

Also note that GG is getting better shaders and in fact a quick look around the forum will show a very funny story about shaders. The community essentially asked Lee to stop working too much on post-process shaders because "we" want better game options before we even need to worry about post-process

True story

EDIT: Many other things are still in development also - GG is by no means a "finished" product - it will evolve and largely from user feedback. YOUR feedback given your experience would be valued.

I guess you are wrong about the age of most users here...
Many are in the mid 30s or 40+... we all had a good time with the C64 & Amiga.
Btw. you can import .X & .3ds models.

Very true!



That was just his interruption of the complaints. The rants all came from the uncertainty of GG's direction. We have been posting endlessly for the past 2 years, what issues we have been having with the engine and there hasn't been much official feedback to say that those fundamental requests are being tended to. We always get presented with random "features" before hand. TGC has been creating its own priority list, that just doesn't seem to make sense for those that actually use the engine day-to-day.

It is a bit sad that whenever we do bring up an issue and it usually starts from just one person... your told "not till the majority of the community votes on that issue feature". If you actually look at every post in the forum (2013-present)... you can clearly see the things people have been addressing are not being considered. This has caused us to often rally the community to focus on these unattended issues "features". It makes the entire forum look negative but its the only way to get their attention.

We all want pretty much everything Lee has been working on, but it would be nice to know he is working on the things we have been addressing as well. I personally don't even care what order things are worked on. Even if it was post-processing first... I just dont want to be left in uncertainty that things we have been requesting will get worked on. That's probably why many of us are still here, because we just don't know if GG will provide our needs and are just lingering for the answer. If we knew that answer we would stay or leave rather than sit around uncertain complaining all the time.

Teabone. I do share some of your concerns but I can't agree on any demand for "when" things should be done. IF we ever did all agree on what was priority then we wouldn't need a priority list in the first place.

Keep in mind that not only is Lee trying to develop for an existing customer base, he also has to develop for an incoming one and it's becoming quite obvious that we're ALL asking for feature X and feature Y and we want it yesterday. Unfortunately very few of the demands are actually matching up.

Any coder will tell you that most inefficient way to develop anything is shifting your focus repeatedly at the mercy of the end-user. It slows production and worse, can introduce serious defects. The term "6 miles deep" to a coder has a basis in truth. "Rhythm" when coding is important. Consider, if Lee had stayed with post-processing then OP's concerns about "look" would be diminished. Instead, we have the people wanting core being pampered and the "look" is on hold.

In amongst all of this lies the economical imperative. Game guru has to appeal to a new market as well (who want shiny). It is there that OUR huge list of wants can be addressed... well resourced.

Keep the faith.

Fair analysis of the situation.

@webheadx1 I strongly recommended you take a look at the work dimoxinil has done with GG when it was originally in FPSC Reloaded. He was working on a game called My Little Apocalypse Town which did not look "ugly" in the slightest. It was one of the most creative products I have yet to see worked on with the engine.

EDIT: Looks like he has taken down all screenshots and halted the project and locked his thread... yikes. If I can find a screenshot from his project I'll post it here. His work was visually outstanding.



* He has continued the project here as World instead of Town.

I'd also add that my first games was written on a ZX81 and my first commercial game was for a ZX Spectrum. I also wrote my first code on a Commodore Pet. I also happen to know that this is true of a number of our users, so maybe not quiet before we were all born .

GameGuru is being updated virtually weekly, with lots of additions and tweaks. Sure these may not be happening in the exact order some users would prefer, but sometimes, for technical reasons that order needs to change.



Where has it been published on Steam that features everyone has been requested won't be touched anytime soon? This sounds more like a comment being taken out of context, but I'll be happy to feedback or even confirm or deny any statement.

SC

Actually one of the examples I was going to show is actually something I did indeed misinterpret.



I'm still curious about what aspects visually you think look bad? There are for sure a lot more shaders in the other two programs though I'm sure GG will catch up quite soon in that area of things. I find the graphics in GG do indeed look quite good. I've never complained about that ever. Curious what visually in FPSC your comparing with GG?

God, I hate these threads!

@ Scene Commander
sorry will have to disagree with you there maybe you should have said fortnightly or monthly.
it been 15 days without any update

@MickeyB,

I did say virtually weekly . And when you consider we came out of early access on the 19th May, and then updated 21st May, that's an average update every 8 days.

The latest build is taking awhile because it will be another big leap forward, adding several visual improvements in the form of a number of post processing effects, a lot of mulitplayer fixes and improvements, new camera options to increase the range of games a user can make, improved weapon effects, more LUA commands and lots of little tweaks.

SC

Hallelujah to this!

*EDIT*

Posted in wrong thread - Whoops.

I know what you mean, but the way you wrote this implies that x10 looks like a kiddies toy, not gameguru.



Is this a question? If so...then yes and no. You can import any model you'd like, however, you can not model anything inside the gameguru editor.



"World" as in level? Yes! Or what else would you like to do here...define world? You can have larger and more populated areas than you could have in FPSC, if that is what you mean.



I don't know how "well" you can do that but you can import characters...it is, however, not all that easy to do at the moment.



Cute.



It will never have everything these engines have, also a realistic looking game needs a professional modelartist to design the assets...this is usually a highpaying job and I doubt you to be naive enough to expect guru to have these kinds of assets "out of the box". The content it comes with is already heavily underpriced.



Yet you type and express yourself like a 13 year old. Numerous of our users are in their 50s and also act like it... you state that you are from england yet I have a hard time deciphering your english...mine seems clearer and it is my 4th language. Come on man! You can do better if you really are able to program.



-Wolf

I don't know why, all the critism on this engine, what I earlier said in the forums I bought the Game Creation System from Pie in the Sky Software in the late 90's they had the same problems with this software development as GG. It cost a lot of time to develop, test, bugfixing etc. to create a solid product.
What we created with FPSCR or later with GG looks really good, if you like it or not. Of course there must be more improvement , development with performance, light, inventory systems, AI etc. but this takes more time that we want.

Me too! That's where my desire for game creation started. They too had new versions come out over time but did not have nearly as great a response to its user base as TGC. We were lucky if we got 1 update for fixes. Here we get fixes and new features as they are made. Pie is also responsible for me becoming a 3d modeler. Fond memories.

It is a shame for Pie they left us with a buggy unfinished product. I can't conceive it TGC will do the same.

Seems like a nice balance between positive and negative in this thread Just like life! Bottom lining it for you, Game Guru WILL have all the features of FPSC Classic in addition to the features we have been adding over the last two years. I will try to avoid turning Game Guru into a 3D modeler or professional games development suite as I believe these markets are already well stocked with excellent solutions backed by enormous teams. What you will see from Game Guru in the next two years are features that make creating games so easy it starts to feel like a form of entertainment, and of course for that to happen we will be adding features which takes the frustration out of the many aspects of this process. Creating buildings, characters, weapons, objects, animations, quests, conversations, game screens, music scores, sound effects and so on are the type of assets created by highly paid professionals and acquired at a premium. I want to provide an environment where all these creative processes and the finished results are instantly available to you, at a ridiculously unrealistically low price and accessible to all. It's a grand mission, and a long one, but it's the road I am on and enjoying every minute of it.

If there is something you feel Game Guru desperately needs, make sure we know about it. If you want load/save, create a GREAT game that absolutely needs the ability to save your progress. Force us to sit up and respect the feature you want us to work on. Understand that we would effectively stop work on someone else's much needed feature to work on yours, and give us an iron clad reason why this is both justified and benefits the majority. Pick one feature you believe in more than any other, and anything you know we are presently working on and make your case. Not a huge shopping list of nice to have's, but the one item you would halt traffic for, would sacrifice for and work tirelessly to see realized.

Even if the feature you want is not just around the corner, by making a good case for it, there might be another solution that dovetails into something we are already working on. Many LUA commands have been born from this very exchange. Not from a bombardment of 'wants', but a scalpel-like suggestion that fits into the current work-load and evolves the product in the direction you would like to see. Of course a hundred users all wielding scalpels would create something of a mess, which is why I tend to carry around a large scimitar to make the call and decide the next best five steps to take. Right now eight out of ten cats have expressed a preference for performance, and when V1.01.003 build is released containing some more speed, we will take the temperature again and see if we are ready for more performance or a few nice features (such as enemies climbing stairs and moping around on rooftops which is one of the A.I features very close to being coded).

sounds great Lee. Looking forward to the PP new stuff

"Game Creation System from Pie in the Sky Software"
Yes, I had that too... I think the disc and book is still somewhere here...
My first touch with game making was on the C64 S.E.U.C.K. hahaha that was great. (Still have the original disc + box here)
One moment, yes, I have also the Atari ST version here + a video on youtube:



Lee, yes !!!

Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save!

I think it would be a good addon for the engine... + same I said before, the player values transfer from level 1 to 2....

Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save, Load/Save!

Have a nice weekend all!

Mine was actually Gary Kitchens Game Maker http://www.garrykitchen.com/product_history/garry_kitchens_gamemaker.html
which had a graphics package , a sound package and was kind of scriptable using basic..... A 1985 Unity

The Shoot Em Up Construction Kit ( SEUCK ) was the best of the bunch .... I just loved that and still miss the fun I had with it ..

I will never complain again.

We still do not have persistent data across levels. That had been a requested feature since the addition of multi-level exporting alongside the save/load feature. I admittedly haven't had time to use GG for several months now but was disappointed to see this is still the same as it was. If I make two levels, nothing collected on level one is carried over to level two and all player vitals are reset as well. So in my opinion GG is still more aligned with a level editor than a true game creator; no game can exceed one level due to this still lacking fundamental feature of stat persistence.

well i would want to drag and drop models into the editor on the fly and it should convert and put them in.

and also needs some x10 power put into it aswell , i think you should combine fps and x10 to make gameguru the best .

also you need to make sure multiplayer is awesome less lag support more people and work well on steam.

after buying fps and x10 i just feel like this will be anoter project that will get dumped when everyone gets stuck and cant work out the bugs.

so stop dumping start writing and improve this like i said it will be great .

and i can buy a 7 dollar 3d engine that does all what i said already so if they can make an engine that owrks for peanuts so should you.

it should be new but also be very powerfull , should have full 3d editing .

you must listen to people who would like to buy it.

if you cant code to make it as powerfull as it should be then hire people simple get it done asap.

I started with the Sharp MZ700/800 64kb homecomputer in the late 80's what you want to create you have to program in Basic. Later when I bought a 8088 XT resp. 486 DX50 computers I was using the buggy 3D construction kit/vr studio to create games this was the start of 3D gamecreation.
End 90's I bought the GCS from Pie in the sky (DOS - Win 95 versions) created and sold a few games. Try outs with 3DRAD, 3D gamestudio, Reality Factory.
At the moment working with FPSC, GG, FPScreator(android tablet) from Silent Walk and gamemaker so I am never bored. LOL

you should stick with that and buy it , if you have a great game maker for 7 dollar.



So stop writing, and buy it like i said....and we all be great

@ webheadx1, I think you missed Lees point completely, You want the most powerful game engine for $9 to beat out every other game engine in the world.
Wont happen.

You want to drag and drop any model you choose into the editor and have it magically work, is unrealistic. there could be 100 reasons it wont work and dragging it into any game engine wont change that. People don't model to real scale, breaks the model, people rig the models, wrong, no magic program is going to fix that. Mixing direct x 10 tech into this, direct x 10 is not used by anyone, cause it don't work.

There will not be full 3d editor in this program. get Blender, it is as capable as 3d max and Maya for free, oh except you have to learn how to do it.

You want a complete engine built in two weeks. not going to happen. not going to happen in 5 years.

You want a free engine that is capable of doing all you want, then Unity is for you, as they have an army and very deep pockets to do this.
And you don't have to pay anything for it, unless you make a block buster, then they want there money also.

If you can buy a 3d engine that can do it all, then why are you even thinking of messing with this program.


Maybe you should hire some programmers and get it done. This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I have heard yet. and self centered.

the difference between wants, and realistic wants are two different stories.

@webheadx1

Why don't you buy it and try it ..... The more that buy the more support we get ....
moaning what it should do and what it can do right now is pointless .... If you have seriously been writing code since the C64 then this should be an absolute breeze for you to modify and create a great game ...



Or....Unity , UE4 and Cry engine needs all the simple features GameGuru can do by the sound of it ..

Never underestimate the ue4 cryengine... its the perfect storm of engines. Speaking of engines...my first 3d engine was genesis 3d... anyone? ...no?



You know how we have a list of items in our maps in the toolbar on the left side... a function to select one of these and be able to remove every instance of that object from the map would be great. Lets assume I'm a newbie and just plastered the map with a lot of highpoly trees...now its lagging and I want to remove them... one-by-one? A simple function here would be fantastic.



-Wolf

Drag and drop could not be done, but and auto rigger that rigs preanimated bones to any mesh could be done. A good example would be Blenders auto rig to heat. It takes a whole 20 minutes if that to rig a mesh in blender. Unless you want to get more advanced with weights and roll controll etc. But if you want fast advanced rigging then you just use rigify for Blender which adds roll controll etc. Something like that in GG would make bringing in custom characters fast and easy. You would just need some default premade rigs for animals and humans.

@synchromesh
" If you have seriously been writing code since the C64 then "

After he wrote all that... I hope you don't mean that seriously.



somebody seen her? ->

Would you care to share the name of this miraculous piece of ware? I do wonder, though, why you are here and not working on your games with that software. Or, is it possible, that it's so fast and easy that it's freed up your time and you have nothing better to do?

Oh I actually thought they already added this feature? I remember it being talked about a lot in the past.

This actually works against Dvader's RPG scripts since if you were to enter a building/house you would loss all the data you have accomplished from the previous map. Things like currency and data like that would be lost.



A must have. There are some entities that are so so tiny that is impossible to select them or even find them in some cases.

That was my second engine... well it was Reality Factory that used the Genesis 3d engine.


Honestly That should be the goal from the beginning. Get us to where we were then add more. I understand some things have to be added at specific times in development, I just wish the 'surgeons' would.


At this point your just trolling because if that were possible how many people do you think would be using it? Everyone, that's the answer. You don't even merit a response anymore. Just leave and go use your 7 dollar engine.

LOL, thank you!

My thoughts exactly.

At first I was interested. Then I was amazed. Then I laughed.

4/5 - would read again

lol what?

Meh...I stopped reading when he mentioned the C64, the Speccy was a much better machine imo. Sounds like a troll thread to me tbh.

GameGuru is far from perfect but TGC have plans to keep on improving the engine and adding extra features for the next 10 years, but just as the software stands now you're getting a ridiculous amount of bang for your buck.

@Lee


I suspect this thread will become locked soon but here goes...

I want a way to select the "y" elevation for terrain painting that is based on real numbers using the water level or elevation "Zero" you decide, as the base point. I want to be able to tell the editor I want to paint terrain at a specific elevation. Example I want to paint at elevation 1 unit above the water or 200 units above or below the water table. (or zero elevation). Please consider this as an option. I think this would benefit all users.

Thread Locked

The discussion has ran its course and is degrading into increasingly condescending posts.
This thread does no longer serve any constructive purpose.

Reason of lock: AUP 3.11



-Wolf