Work In Progress / Shavra - Renaissance

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Ertlov
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Posted: 23rd May 2016 22:25
Exzellent architecture!

Really curious about the interior of the abby.

Regarding the other shots: Which view distance do you use?
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Wolf
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Posted: 23rd May 2016 22:38 Edited at: 23rd May 2016 22:40
Thank you Ertlov It will be a challenge as I'll likely have to model most of it.

By view distance I assume you mean camera distance and not the terrain LOD shennanigans? I use 100 (even if I lower it, I don't get any significant performance enhancement whatsoever though)

Now that we are on page 2, I'll just migrate the update to this page. Suits me fine because the media on page 1 is mostly quite outdated.


**************




**************


While I really should upload my models to the store I have instead been working on Shavra. Oh well! At least I am happy with the results. If you are interested in how I go about designing my games, read the following italic text.

At first I weave a broad storyline out of an initial idea. Then I take an educated guess of what can and can not be done. Older members know that with FPSC, I have usually been wrong and I couldn't do it in the end...well sometimes I could and that was always fun. Now that this has been established I note the single acts and where they take place. I now start developing the maps for the middle parts of the game. Never start at the beginning because

1. You will get better and only rework and remake them which can ultimately distort the original idea.
2. The first few levels will give the first impression of your game, you should craft them at the height of your skill level. A player who is already playing as far as, say, level 5 won't mind as much if its slightly less advanced.

Here I'll develop a broad layout of the map, then I add the basic gameplay, then I add the characters, then I tweak both of these aspects, then I'll add more advanced gameplay and then the map and the models will be polished.

We are mostly still at the broad mapdesign phase altough I have started branching in the character creation part.

Characters in indie games are trouble! If you play indie games you may have noticed that many of the big independent titles have little to zero interaction with actual real-time characters. Amnesia, Penumbra, Doorways and many more do a lot to avoid them.
In AAA games the characters are lively and amazing. I remember well someone describing the fact that the eyes of your squad in the early Brothers in Arms games would follow the player as scary. Well... how would you describe the extremely vivid characters in modern games then? Its not uncommon to find younger commentators describing the conversation animations of older games as "cringe-worthy".

I think this is really something an indie dev has to ponder upon if he does not want to alienate his players. How do I go about using characters in Shavra?

The fact is that I have a large library of rarely used and decently animated chars to populate my world. They are in a rough state and need a lot of touching up but I believe that I can make them look passable with some texturing magic. Interaction is another aspect of this and in the end I just decided to go with a conversation system similar to S.t.a.l.k.e.r. or Morrowind.
They look better than Morrowind chars and the standart for my game is set to be that of a modded Morrowind visually.
Sure, a lot of players are too jaded to bother with the end result but I'm sure I'll have a player base....I always had one.

Now I also have some visual updates... because I know how exciting an all-text update is







I have mentioned that buildings will have (at least somewhat) matching interior architecture to how they appear outside. That has always been important to me. Here the interior of one of these huts we saw earlier. Making these is quite fast and easy, my only complaint is the plasticky shimmer GG adds to my props in baked lightmapping under the current rendering system...but all this will be improved. There are some shading and rendering faults in these images, I know that.























Strolling through Areshian nature and taking in the vistas. I'm happy with the quality of the foliage I use and find that it already has quite an atmosphere to it. Its in no way perfect but it looks already better than what I thought I could do in GG yet. What do you think?




Prototype of the Areshian Abbey. Not too crazy about its current normalmap and texture quality but getting there


Thats it for this time! If you have stuck through and have been reading all this, please let me know what you think! Feedback is always very appreciated.



-Wolf
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Posted: 23rd May 2016 23:09 Edited at: 25th May 2016 20:03
you have out done your self again wolf. beautiful looking game you have here. I guess all this is on highest setting. i just want to walk around the level and check out the scenery. this is guru at it's finest.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 24th May 2016 10:20
You combine real-time with pre-baked shadows, right? To get those beautiful shadows in the interiors?
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Wolf
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Posted: 25th May 2016 12:44
Hello!!

@MichaelX:
Quote: "you have done your self again wolf. beautiful looking game you have here. I guess all this is on highest setting. i just want to walk around the level and check out the scenery. this is guru at it's finest."


Thank you! Thats the reaction I wish to get from players. (I did however also hide some alchemy ingredients and treasure to get the more pragmatic player to explore too.)

All on (almost) highest settings except for the third screenshot. Its on lowest shading because the normalmapping on some unmodified props gave them a glossy plastic look if active.

@Ertlov:
Quote: "You combine real-time with pre-baked shadows, right? To get those beautiful shadows in the interiors? "


No, these are entirely prebaked. I'll likely to some trickery with dynamic lights later on to get the characters to shade correctly but until then all static lighting. I really just amped up lightmapping quality and resolution for this.



-Wolf
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Ertlov
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Posted: 25th May 2016 13:35
Quote: "No, these are entirely prebaked. I'll likely to some trickery with dynamic lights later on to get the characters to shade correctly but until then all static lighting. I really just amped up lightmapping quality and resolution for this."


You got amazing results here, honestly!

Care to share your lightmapping settings?
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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 25th May 2016 17:56 Edited at: 25th May 2016 17:57
Looks really nice wolf your maps are breathtaking
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Posted: 25th May 2016 20:46
ok got too excited here, o m g awesome just ( some kind of wow word with expression with too much to deal with word)

the inside is another level you just pantsed my houses just up top. speechless too much input
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Posted: 25th May 2016 21:33
As a wise man once said:

"Wolf! Those are some beautiful screenshots man!"

I will have to agree with that quote.

When do we get to explore that map? Sorry, I am not patient enough.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 25th May 2016 21:41
I swear to cow, I won't let GG go this weekend untill I have achieved or beaten this lightning.
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Posted: 25th May 2016 22:28
Really nice work Wolf.
Wolf
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Posted: 27th May 2016 22:33
Hello! Thank you all for your wonderful feedback.
Especially since the work in progress board doesn't get as many comments as the product chat board.
I haven't had much time to continue working on this but I got around finishing my old media which will soon be on the store.

@Ertlov:
Quote: "You got amazing results here, honestly!

Care to share your lightmapping settings?"


Oh! There is a lot more that can be done than small rundown huts.

Of course: The lightmapquality is at 1000 and the lightmappingsizeentity is at 2048. You can go higher

Quote: "I swear to cow, I won't let GG go this weekend untill I have achieved or beaten this lightning."


Enjoy

@Honkeyboy:
Quote: "Looks really nice wolf your maps are breathtaking"


Thank you!

@Science Boy:
Quote: "ok got too excited here, o m g awesome just ( some kind of wow word with expression with too much to deal with word)

the inside is another level you just pantsed my houses just up top. speechless too much input"


Thank you very much. For the interior I just inverted the exterior-mesh and worked from there Its the easiest way to start working on something like that and the fastest. I am glad you like it.

@Landman: Thanks!!
Quote: "When do we get to explore that map? Sorry, I am not patient enough."

When I'm not too lazy I aim to get it all out on new years and this demo much much earlier. Hard to tell as I don't have characters set up yet.


@rolfy:
Quote: "Really nice work Wolf."


Thank you! A lof of what is seen in these screens is your work as well. I have always based a lot of Shavra's / Spyra's Aesthetics on your sky or terrain work. (especially the alien rock formations.)



-Wolf

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Posted: 1st Jun 2016 04:20 Edited at: 1st Jun 2016 04:21
In my humble opinion, I believe you have a wonderful eye for lighting, if not a gift; the warm coloration of the scenes blends perfectly with the sky box and landscape texture too. Speaking of the landscape, it looks interesting, and otherworldly and very inviting, without the undulating heaviness you see sometimes in game guru maps. Your interior is sumptuous. I want to live there.

I can see some influences of Morrowind?

Well done all round. It is a pleasure to see your work and read your ideas and approach to game creation.
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Wolf
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Posted: 1st Jun 2016 17:39
@Palehorse: Thank you for your kind and very encouraging words!

As for being influenced by Morrowind: yes. There are quite a few titles that have influenced me creatively but Morrowind sticks in my mind for feeling very alive and for being so delightfully otherworldly. I don't directly aim to do so but I am sure there is a lot of its spirit in Shavra.



I had some time to work on this and after some frustration and quite a few deleted meshes, I finally have a level of quality and workflow I can maintain to make individual characters. I have discussed this in the last update and they are still far from what is seen in current game engines but I think they fit the overall aesthetic well and blend in with the world. I haven't done that many yet.
In the plot you will hire a ferryman to get you to the Aresh'Ren island and that is precisely the first character I have salvaged. He is not perfect and these old meshes feel rushed and have quite some frustrating flaws in them but I am getting there. This also settles that dialogues will be textbox based, with the occasional shout or comment that is audible... old school, the fossils among us will remember that well.


My next step will be to design the characters I need for the alpha, but I have also worked on other levels. I have added this swimming pool to the sanctuary where FPSC's stock swimming animation finds its use. This is the first time I see this animation in use since 2005.



two bathing maiden in the new sanctuary pool. Its entirely by accident that her hair has this wet look, by the way


I could end the update here, but I have also gotten the Island map to the state it will be released in when the alpha goes out sooo... while this greatly resembles what has been shown before, its now upgraded! ...and this is my thread, I can present this the way I want.







Abbey with extensive garden area.












As seen before only tweaked. Notice the sign over the inn, I'll go with sumerian style writing as the writing of the Shavrans.

Please leave some feedback if you're already here



-Wolf
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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 1st Jun 2016 20:38
As usual Wolf, outstanding work! Not sure if this has been asked, is all the lighting prebaked? If so, how is this map looking with the memory consumption?

Why is it that there are black rectangles floating around the maiden?
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Palehorse
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2016 09:29
Morrowind made a big impact on me back in the day too. And it still calls to me like no other game I've played. I must have slept through that storm, walked off that ship, heard that first hauntingly melancholic cry of the Silt Strider and filled out those forms in the census office several hundred times over the years. Wonderful music also; so good they repurposed it for Skyrim. And if I ever have to choose one rpg to bring to that hypothetical desert island, that's the one.

Those screens look really beautiful. You take a mean screenshot The woman looks very natural in her environment. I would like to see the male character in map when you have him ready. And I especially like the brave mix of contrasting plant species. It shouldn't work, but here it does. Text based interaction sounds like a great idea.

I hope you have made back-ups of your back-ups Do you write your own A.I. or will you modify the current ones offered with Game Guru? I find the A.I. to be somewhat lacking, but tolerable in claustrophobic, maze-like maps where its "mole vision" plays to its strengths. In open envoirments though, a little bit of me dies with each vapid encounter. No offense to the development team; we know they are aware of it and Lee has said he want's to go to town on it fairly soon.

I look forward to seeing more from you
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Ertlov
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2016 15:27 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2016 15:28
This is one of the examples of how an ArtStyle and a consistent art direction well executed can beat the **** out of any AAA engine glory when it comes to the very meaning of the word "beauty".

It's simply wonderful, I love every bit of it.
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Mathiasdam
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2016 01:12
I don't know how it's even possible to achieve those visuals! You have to teach us one Day master! I have no idea how you're not Working as a level designer for an AAA title though.

Do you have plans to sell this? Because i feel like this game has a justified place on Steam

Btw what happened to your post-apocalyptic game?
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Wolf
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Posted: 5th Jun 2016 18:44
Hey all! I'm sorry for delaying my reply but I just didn't get around to it.
Just had an individual on the phone I never met in person who thought it would be dandy to involve himself in our family affairs and tell me what he thinks of me and my father, I have ended the conversation rather promptly and am thankful that I have so much great feedback to reply to so I can take my mind off of that.

@Landman:
Quote: "As usual Wolf, outstanding work! Not sure if this has been asked, is all the lighting prebaked? If so, how is this map looking with the memory consumption?"


Thank you! The lighting is only prebaked in indoor or levels with very small outdoor sections. As these levels are smaller in size, I don't have to worry about the memory consumption. The outdoor levels are all dynamic.

Quote: "Why is it that there are black rectangles floating around the maiden?"


Urr... these are extradimensional beings, thats just how they look. Don't question my design choices!!
But seriously, its because this is a family friendly forums and I shouldn't upload nudity to it. While I personally think that among the guns, zombies and shooter games that are shown here nudity is not only less worse but not even in the same category I am also willing to conform to social norms, a little at least.

@Palehorse:
Quote: "Morrowind made a big impact on me back in the day too."

A heavily modded morrowind is the bar I set for myself for visual quality on this. (foliage, terrain etc.) The game is unique in the way it feels. When I first played it as a kid it just felt so much more mature and alive than any other game I have played 'till then. While it shows its age when you get around playing it now, that feeling is still there in parts. And yes, those ashen wastelands and swampy coasts with the singing silkstriders and the eeriee Dunmer culture have a special place in my gamer heart.

Quote: "
Those screens look really beautiful. You take a mean screenshot The woman looks very natural in her environment. I would like to see the male character in map when you have him ready. And I especially like the brave mix of contrasting plant species. It shouldn't work, but here it does. Text based interaction sounds like a great idea. "


Thank you very much! The male character will be part of the alpha demo so you should get to see him in the somewhat near future.
The truth is that I wanted to be much further with this game than I am right now its just that a million things came in between and I ruined a day off I had all by myself by having a terrible hangover. Thats what I get for always being judgmental about people who can't restrain themselves.

The characters are all controlled via very simple scripts that make them either idle, walk around or interact with their environment. Buuut setting them up in the world still takes time so it might take a while until they roam the island and I can show them on here. Once they are all up and running and there is some fauna on there as well, I will however build the map and send it to a pal with a much better computer than I have to take a video.

The reason I have not presented anything in motion yet is that my laptop would end up having such a framerate that it would be just another screenshot

As for the plant species: My mothers garden looks a lot like that It makes sense lorewise, you see, this island is in the middle of a large oasis, the unique climate and abundance of water make it possible for a wide variety of plants to be cultivated there which is what the alchemists of that abbey do.

Quote: "I hope you have made back-ups of your back-ups"


Call me superstitious but I did the second I have read that.

Quote: "Do you write your own A.I. or will you modify the current ones offered with Game Guru?"


I write my own AI. Less is more in this case as most encounters will likely be scripted. To take 2 extremes: A character in a dungeon room that simply rushes towards you and attacks you, with some good animations and sounds, is way more fun and exciting than a character with some kind of complex tactical behaviour that doesn't really work. I think I even had acceptable behaviour in my old FPSC games (except for euthanasia, that had too many glitchers)
There is always a limit to what can be done by a single developer and while game guru helps to remove a lot of the hassle of development, there are still cutbacks to be made. You can't kill friendly NPC's in Shavra for example because there is no way I could implement any system to have the game react to this properly.

@Ertlov
Quote: "This is one of the examples of how an ArtStyle and a consistent art direction well executed can beat the **** out of any AAA engine glory when it comes to the very meaning of the word "beauty".

It's simply wonderful, I love every bit of it."


Thanks! Means a lot coming from my favorite austrian. ...and someone in the industry who sees a lot of games being made.

@Mathiasdam
Quote: "I don't know how it's even possible to achieve those visuals! You have to teach us one Day master! "

Thank you! I wrote a bunch of tutorials for FPSC back in the day but I don't think they hold up all too well for GG. I'd say that I'm going to write some for GG but the truth is I just don't have as much time as I had as a student.

Quote: "I have no idea how you're not Working as a level designer for an AAA title though. "


The reasons are numerous. Years ago I did indeed play with the thought of educating myself more in that direction and get a job in the game industry but:
* It wouldn't really fit in my life system. I'd not be willing to move to work in a studio or to do everything at home.
* I already disliked most freelance gigs I got back when I was doing freelance design and modeling for indies. Some great guys I met during that time but a lot of what I did was dull and just not worth it. Needless to say many clients where secretive about their projects and nearly all of them never surfaced anywhere. No great experience. A certain individual asked me to design levels after certain instructions, for what kinda game with what kinda gameplay? None of my business he said. "This conversation is over" I replied.
* I pursued a very different career
* Can't imagine sitting behind a computer professionally
* Would never be hired. I despise everything that sells itself (often undeserved) as "professional" or "industry standart" and the industry is likely not interested to hire some luxemburgian weirdo whose tools and methods don't fit in their artwork pipeline. I'm still making my models in Milkshape

Quote: "Do you have plans to sell this? Because i feel like this game has a justified place on Steam"


Yes! No! Arrgh! Its tempting to say yes because up to this point I am happy with my results and development is going fast and fluid. But that might change. What if the final product looks alright but plays clunky and horribly? What if there end up to be unfixable bugs like in some of my previous releases where I had to come up with a patch that removes a third of the game? I'd have to double check the license for every texture and sound file in the game.

The truth is that it would be great to see this being sold one day but I'd also be fine with having it being a free release.

Quote: "Btw what happened to your post-apocalyptic game?"


It grew over my head and I decided to abandon it in favour of this. Acythian was mostly intended for me to get used to Game guru.
There are more factors that play into that. 3rd person shooters have a bad reputation for being shlock and the audience would perceive it as such. The amount of work that goes into making a third person shooter like acythian was planned to be was far larger than I thought. I didn't want to make something that in the end had no greater purpose.
A scifi game set in a city needs way more assets being made than one set in a fantasy world.
And in the end, acythian was inherently negative and a lot more generic where I personally view Shavra more like an artwork I can paint on every now and then to lift my spirits. Its a magical fantasy world where Acythian was an irradiated war zone. There is already enough war zone going on in art and media and I want to do something at least slightly different.

Thanks for all your feedback, I hope to return soon with more progress and hope you stay interested.



-Wolf
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Posted: 7th Jun 2016 14:33
Your job is proof the true potential of GG, in expert hands like yours.
The composition of the scenes, lights and shadows, the colors, it's all wonderful.

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Ertlov
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Posted: 7th Jun 2016 15:01
Oh, you could "fit" into the industry. But not into a classical studios. However, I more than only understand all your other arguments against it.
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Posted: 8th Jun 2016 08:37
Hi Wolf,

Do you have a different version of GG ...LOL...
but serious, this is very awesome, i like the lighting
and The Areshian Abbey is truly wonderfull...

Harry
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Gtox
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Posted: 8th Jun 2016 10:33
Looks amazing - nothing like anything I've seen in GameGuru so far.
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Posted: 20th Jun 2016 00:31
Hi!

@3Com:
Quote: " Your job is proof the true potential of GG, in expert hands like yours.
The composition of the scenes, lights and shadows, the colors, it's all wonderful. "


Thank you very much

@Ertlov
Quote: "Oh, you could "fit" into the industry. But not into a classical studios. However, I more than only understand all your other arguments against it."


At most in some optimistic smaller studio but I really don't see that and honestly doubt how useful I'd be. Except I'd get to be a maniacal dictator with full control over the art department.

@Harry:
Quote: "but serious, this is very awesome, i like the lighting
and The Areshian Abbey is truly wonderfull..."


Thanks a lot!
The alpha will be the first playable thing since that very early FPSC demo years ago. It really needs to look the part

@GTOX
Quote: "Looks amazing - nothing like anything I've seen in GameGuru so far."


Thanks! I hope I can keep that up with the other projects improving on here.



Alright! Time for an update!

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that some of you read all my ramblings It makes it a lot more engaging for me to explain my plans and ideas a little bit more.
I know that what I have shown the last time was already rather polished so I'll have to warn you that what will be shown in this update is in an a lot more "raw" state.


Estimating a release date for anything I do is impossible at the moment. I think I get a couple of evenings to work in GG and something comes in between and I don't touch Shavra for days in a row. Then I suddenly make a lot more progress than expected and am tempted to believe that it will always go this fast. I have been working on this on and off for the last couple of days and just plan to get the alpha out this year and then see how it progresses (the game and the engine).

The dullest thing about making a video game (I have already evaded a lot of dull procedures by using a plattform like GG) must be the tiresome adjusting and improving of furniture and clutter items. You need them for your game but its just so mindnumbingly boring to retexture a bunch of cabinets.
I usually listen to music or some kinda lecture. Sometimes watch some internet video or a show on the side. ...can only recommend to do it that way because you gotta do it if you want your game to look the "video" part of "videogame"

Aside from that complaint, I had a lot of fun working on the chars and these new environments. I have started to furnish the interior of the Abbey and am almost done with the other side of the island. Here you'll be hunting 2 dinosaur like creatures that have attacked the settlements (hence the pallisades everywhere, by the way)

I can also say with certainty what kind of levels will be seen in the Alpha-demo:

Aresh-Ren (By evening and nighttime)
Areshian Abbey
Abbey-dungeon
Interior of several huts
Pub (day and night)
Cave (optional: sidequest only)




I am aware that these look similar to what has been seen before. This is because we are still on the same island, just on the other side of it. Developing does take a lot longer than playing


You'll see a bunch of sunrays in this update...cause its neat



I'm happy that I have a bunch of bearded chars for the game. Adds to the fantasy mystique. This is a docent at the abbey. I want him to give you a dialogue based sidequest, but haven't worked on any of how I can achieve that to be interesting.



The lecture hall. West wing of the Abbey.







First thing you see once you enter the other side of the island. Its an a bit more woodsy area.















I'm happy to share this! I think I managed to make this level feel really "breathing".



Swampy coast.



Abandoned huts. As mentioned before: large dinosaur like predators are roaming the area and you need to deal with them.




A small animated turtle I got for FPSC a couple years back. It finally has its uses.





Entrance Hall, Areshian Abbey.



And ending on a lush, foresty note is a nice way to wrap up the screenshots. Playing this level on my laptop felt just like watching a screenshot gallery as well


Thats all I have for this update, please let me know what you think. Also, if there is something a fantasy game like this absolutely NEEDS, please let me know what that is.



-Wolf
"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"
Ertlov
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Posted: 20th Jun 2016 06:32
Quote: "The dullest thing about making a video game (I have already evaded a lot of dull procedures by using a plattform like GG) must be the tiresome adjusting and improving of furniture and clutter items. You need them for your game but its just so mindnumbingly boring to retexture a bunch of cabinets. "


The dullest thing is actually deleting them afterwards from your level where they perfectly blend in because you hit the mem cap with the additional texture variations.

But yes, agreed.
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Wolf
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Posted: 20th Jun 2016 22:10
You hit the memcap in game guru?? Honestly, I'd just restart the level in such a case. My patience with that kind of stuff has drastically shortened due to my posttraumatic- fpsc- syndrome.



-Wolf

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Ertlov
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Posted: 20th Jun 2016 22:43
yes, both Father's island and the old Antinomy Prototype hit the memcap when you bake them.
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Posted: 21st Jun 2016 20:00
Ah! I see. I doubt that I'll manage that as I only bake the far smaller indoor maps.
You had me worried there for a second.



-Wolf
"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
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Posted: 25th Jun 2016 07:34
Breathtaking images Wolf. I find your work to be very inspiring; it makes anything I create, look like the product of a labotimised chimp with broken fingers.

Seriously though, any of those shots would not look out of place on a Steam store page in my opinion. My humble advice to you would be to pace yourself. Step away for a while if you feel the need and I guarantee, the return will be all the sweeter. I wish you the very best and I look forward to visiting your thread again.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 25th Jun 2016 22:01
Quote: "You had me worried there for a second. "


Sorry to be a party popper once more, but there ARE memory issues, and not small ones.

Basically, if your game swallows more than 2.5GB while running in the beginning, it can already cause issues on several PCs after some hours of gameplay and save / loading.

However, I believe your multi-level approach will save you from the worst.
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Posted: 28th Jun 2016 12:04
Hello!

@Palehorse:
Quote: "Breathtaking images Wolf. I find your work to be very inspiring"


Thank you! That makes me happy

Quote: "it makes anything I create, look like the product of a labotimised chimp with broken fingers."


I don't believe you! Do you plan on making a work in progress thread some day? Also, if I might ask, what genre of game are you working on?
Besides, them chimps are good with colors. Not sure how well a lobotomized chimp would do though

Quote: "
Seriously though, any of those shots would not look out of place on a Steam store page in my opinion. My humble advice to you would be to pace yourself. Step away for a while if you feel the need and I guarantee, the return will be all the sweeter. I wish you the very best and I look forward to visiting your thread again. "


Thank you very much! I have shown some of these to a general audience on imgur and got an overwhelmingly positive reaction to them.
If I'd put it on steam greenlight or look for some kinda mercenary publisher once its done will be seen as it progresses and how it will play.
I aim to make this at least 6 hours long but can't guarantee it. It'll likely be free or a pay what you want kinda thing.

Keen advice though! Taking a break for a few days and then come back to a project always does it good creatively.
...and thanks!! I hope that it will keep you interested as I develop it.

@Ertlov:
Quote: "Basically, if your game swallows more than 2.5GB while running in the beginning, it can already cause issues on several PCs after some hours of gameplay and save / loading."


I had a feeling that this might be the case which is why I was suspicious of these Open World'ish projects some people are working on.
I'm glad that I am sticking to smaller maps. Thank you for doing all the pioneer work, by the way

(I'm currently working on more characters, some items and HUD equipment. The interior of the abbey has also progressed...some new stuff will be posted soon.)



-Wolf

"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"
science boy
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Posted: 30th Jun 2016 11:12
Well hello guys. I'm in London been on a work course boring. My intention was to throw candy at you when on holiday. However a dirty filthy house I picked up needed a total sort out like floors tiles paint clean total clean sealing and every d.I. y job known to man. I do ask wolf to keep my twin worlds thread open. As soon as I get fully moved and all done you will get some sugar. Cheers

Now to this little nugget of awesomeness weow wolf. I am in love with your world it is phenomenal I love your countryside not enough people focus on that. So hat off to the world. I could take a picnic to your lakeside and watch them Gtox butterflies and flies and Harrys rabbits and deer scamper about. Them guys deserve a plaudits for their honed skills and definitely will be on twin world's credits maybe a bonus if it ever did well. They and you have free copies and rolfy and the ertlov. And some others too. Anyway back to your world you are a light master and you have excelled in all aspects of g.g and I expect Mr Bamber will be showcasing this for a selling point. So again I gonna get my hamper bottle of white and rose hope cybernescence as talked to his pc girl or is your goth girl ( hot women are goth chic. ) I was a goth in 80s so I know. Willing to come for a picnic at the turtle location or near. In fact all welcome to wolf's world picnic.


Keep it up wolf pushing the boundaries of gg you keep me inspired
an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
Belidos
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Posted: 30th Jun 2016 13:48 Edited at: 30th Jun 2016 13:51
Quote: "I had a feeling that this might be the case which is why I was suspicious of these Open World'ish projects some people are working on.
I'm glad that I am sticking to smaller maps. Thank you for doing all the pioneer work, by the way "


I don't know if it will help you, but my plan at the moment for my WIP is to as you are use multiple levels, but have three small areas (spread as far apart as possible) per level, with transport to entity scripts that fade out and in to transition between them. That way you still have quite a large area to work with per level, but because of the way GG loads distant objects the three areas are far enough apart to not interfere with each other FPS wise too much , if you know what I mean.

You still can't have a huge massive level filled with entities, but you can have three (or even more if you want) smaller levels within the one level and with the transition effect make it feel like one larger area.

You'll still get an FPS drop compared to having each of those three areas on different levels, but it won't be anywhere near the drop compared to filling up the whole level.

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Posted: 2nd Jul 2016 15:19
Hello!!

@science boy: I have 2 professional development thingies (do you call it that in english?) this year myself so I feel ya.

Quote: "dirty filthy house I picked up needed a total sort out like floors tiles paint clean total clean sealing and every d.I. y job known to man. "


Ha! I kinda like to do that though.

Quote: "Now to this little nugget of awesomeness weow wolf. I am in love with your world it is phenomenal I love your countryside not enough people focus on that. So hat off to the world. I could take a picnic to your lakeside and watch them Gtox butterflies and flies and Harrys rabbits and deer scamper about."


Thank you! Means a lot from the creator of twin worlds. And yeah, some of these critters will indeed be found around there.

Quote: "They and you have free copies and rolfy and the ertlov. "


Cool!!

Quote: " ( hot women are goth chic. ) "

I could share some stories from my early 20s but it would be in terrible bad taste to discuss that here. Those nightclubs she dragged me to where delightfully insane though, I can say that.

Quote: "Willing to come for a picnic at the turtle location or near. In fact all welcome to wolf's world picnic."


You did read the part about there being a dinosaur infestation? But seriously, I'm glad you like my work, mate!

@Belidos: Thanks for sharing!

Quote: "I don't know if it will help you, but my plan at the moment for my WIP is to as you are use multiple levels, but have three small areas (spread as far apart as possible) per level, with transport to entity scripts that fade out and in to transition between them. That way you still have quite a large area to work with per level,"


I do something somewhat similar, where the interiors of village houses are hidden afar behind hills and you teleport back and furth. Other than that I do aim to keep my levels smaller... There is still more than enough space to explore and I don't run into problems later. At least I hope so.



-Wolf
"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"
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Posted: 6th Jul 2016 22:49 Edited at: 6th Jul 2016 22:50


Hey gang!

I have to admit that I present you this updated with mixed feelings. Not only because I didn't get all too much further into development but also because I developed a love-hate relationship with my characters. I have been talking a lot about this in the past but I'm really starting to dislike the set I use for Shavra. Don't get me wrong, I got plenty and they have functional animations for a lot of different scenarios but they seem to drag the overall visual quality for the game down.

I have presented this project outside of this board on a couple sides and that they don't match up with their environments or look weird and stiff has been mentioned a couple times. I can't help but agree and am debating wether or not I should invest the time and most likely also money to get better stuff to work with.

That said, I am pleased with how the laboratory of the abbey has turned out. The entire building is now set up and all it needs are its NPC's and questcontextual dialogues. There is not much gameplay in that building as you are just getting some exposition and briefed for your next mission. That means that the player will likely not spend that much time in it (Shavra has no crime system so you can't rob them off all their potions) but I still have to make it all look the part.

I'm happy with the different potion models I have and look forward to designing the ones the player can find and use in dungeons. They look great in real time shading too, the baked lights kinda make them look a little FPSC'ish though but still acceptable in my opinion.

Baking the abbey and all its halls took forever. Which was okay as I got out of the house, bought the food for my cats, got myself a salad, spoke to a bloke I went to school with I ran into, ate the salad, came home, finished a painting and the map was baked.
Its all acceptable as long as I don't get FPSC'ish crashes and memory errors!




Laboratory interior. I improvised that balcony out of old FPSC's "modtable" meshes from the WW2 set. I think it works visually.




To illustrate my point about the characters. I have talked with Pirate Myke about how I could improve upon them and he had some good ideas. Lets see if I can implement them.


Shavra uses a lot of my old "Mystics Lair" models. I think I will need to take a few evenings to make a followup pack for me...and put it all on the store too.



This is the mess hall. You can make out these shader artifacts on the wall here. Notice how these are absent in most other shots!
Notice that I tried to make the shadows fall at least somewhat correctly.


I only found it fitting to have these mushrooms bringing in additional colour. Seeing how they cultivate rare plants and all.


Old lady on a pew. Another character mesh I'm not terribly in love with :/


Breaking up the gallery with a vegetable field from outside.







The laboratory without any NPC's around.



Female alchemy student. I didn't rig any tool to her mesh yet so she kinda just stirs in the air in this shot. Am not too sure if I should keep her or not either. You can look at her mesh here:




Older work I have purchased and build up on. Many of my chars have been in FPSCreator packs as mentioned lately but never used all too much so I wanted to feature them but I'm doubting more and more that I'll go ahead and replace them with something better, even if that means more work.


Abbey student NPC.


Cassia
Story related NPC. At least my first version of her.


And I leave you with an impression of the alchemy lab. Herbs and boiling potions! I wonder what it would smell like.

Please let me know what you think as I always value your input!



-Wolf
"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"
Belidos
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Posted: 6th Jul 2016 23:00
Awesome work Wolf, looking so good, puts my efforts to shame.

About characters, I think at least part of it is a GG issue, I've noticed that characters just don't look the same when they're in GG, it's like their quality is reduced by quite a large amount, I've tried tons of my own models in GG and they all look really good in model preview software, but once in GG look absolutely terrible.

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Posted: 7th Jul 2016 04:50
Outstanding work Wolf.
Yes Belidos I have the same impression... quality is reduced by quite a large amount and even normalmaps looks donĀ“t work with characters in GG... this is a issue for long time now.
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Bolt Action Gaming
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Posted: 7th Jul 2016 17:58
You can really tell the difference on surface levels and their impact on static lights here like we discussed, Wolf. I'm really shocked at how bright yours are. That said, what are you doing for interior shadows? Are you disabling the shadows slider (set to 0) to avoid 'sun based' shadows or just rolling with it?
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Posted: 8th Jul 2016 15:05
Hey folks! Thanks for the all the compliments on my work, its really motivating

@Belidos
Quote: "puts my efforts to shame."


Eh! I don't think so! Your work is really interesting to me.

Quote: "About characters, I think at least part of it is a GG issue, I've noticed that characters just don't look the same when they're in GG, it's like their quality is reduced by quite a large amount, I've tried tons of my own models in GG and they all look really good in model preview software, but once in GG look absolutely terrible."


Its the lighting once again (and shading). I think chars look alright if set up well in GG but the quality loss is most certainly there.
Not in my case though, here its also the quality of the chars. I have decided to invest in better characters and will put out an update on that very soon

@0Alemar0:
Quote: "Yes Belidos I have the same impression... quality is reduced by quite a large amount"


I can only assume that this will improve with the rendering engine overhall
@BoltActionGaming:
Quote: "You can really tell the difference on surface levels and their impact on static lights here like we discussed, Wolf. I'm really shocked at how bright yours are."


How bright my lights are? Indoor scenes have very different settings from outdoor scenes. I barely work with ambience at all, if I do, its set very low and the surface level is ramped way up. What you can do additionally that I learned in FPSC times is place an ambient light:
Lets say you have a window where some warm sun light comes in. You can't place a light with a range of like 2000 that colours the entire room bright yellow. It would look bad. What you do is place a bright light at the window with a range of like 300 (whatever the size of your room) and a much darker (brownish) light to simulate the lightrays bouncing off of the interior architecture. It gives you a way more natural look but you need to pay attention to where you place it, as it too will cast shadows.

Quote: " That said, what are you doing for interior shadows?"


Switch them off. (set to 0). There is also always a box around my levels to prevent unnecessary light artifacts from annoying me.



-Wolf

"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2016 20:19


Hello!

I haven't updated in a while and figured I should before I'm away for a few days.
Not much has happened here. I have imported the weapons that have also been present in previous iterations of my fantasy games. Namely EAI's splendid fantasy set (I also ...finally...bought the whole set).
They still look pretty fine! I decided to go with leather gloves rather than the blue version I had in this when it was still called "Spyra".


Halberd with outdated handrig

Here is one of them ingame. Nevermind the shading errors in this levels, I take care of that later, its an easy fix





His set is the best one out there if you ask me, especially since he also has a set of spellcasting gestures made and his stuff is easy to rig to.



I also chose to invest a couple of bucks in better characters. I'm pretty happy with the new ones as I felt the other ones did, despite my best efforts, drag the game down both in terms of visual quality and immersion. The new ones are spiffing though!! Very happy with them and how they are animated

Here is one:





Let me hear your thoughts if you feel like it



-Wolf

"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"
SpaceWurm
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Posted: 4th Aug 2016 16:31
Looks fantastic Wolf! The rigged melee weapon and your revamped character. I'd assume that you redid quite a bit of texture work on that female model to suit your tastes? Can't wait to see more!
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Posted: 6th Aug 2016 09:54
Hi Wolf,

It's a stunning artwork, in special the interior design of the building and landscape design, as well. Well done!

Greetings,
-Northern
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Wolf
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Posted: 9th Aug 2016 23:14
@Landman:
Quote: "Looks fantastic Wolf! The rigged melee weapon and your revamped character. I'd assume that you redid quite a bit of texture work on that female model to suit your tastes? Can't wait to see more!"


Thank you, mate! I didn't change much on that model actually. I was pretty happy with most of her out of the box. Added specular mapping, removed the rigged in weapons and changed hair, eyes and skin tone as well as complexity to suit my lore. Thats really it!
More is on its way...its just that stuff keeps getting in between.

@Northern: Thank you!



-Wolf


"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"
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Posted: 7th Nov 2016 21:59
This thread, the possibilities with GG in the hands of a master.
Wolf, my jaw has fallen to the ground while viewing your work, hauntingly beautiful.
I was reading the blog of Mike to learn some tips and tricks about lighting and creating mountains, he has a link in his tutorial which brought me here.
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Posted: 30th Nov 2016 14:23
@Earthling45: Thank you for incredibly flatterint comment!!

Quote: "Wolf, my jaw has fallen to the ground while viewing your work, hauntingly beautiful."


Thank you!! While I am statisfied with what I can do visually in GG, these look identical in real time motion, there is a lot of frustration with GG otherwise.
I'm currently finishing a small test project unrelated to this and am also comparing to how much slower and how different making this kind off game is in unreal engine. I'll then decide where to continue this project.

Quote: "I was reading the blog of Mike to learn some tips and tricks about lighting and creating mountains, he has a link in his tutorial which brought me here."


Hey cool!! I should link back to his Blog whenever I get the time to finally update my homepage! Such a delay in updates over there!
I really appreciate this!



-Wolf
nuncio
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Posted: 1st Dec 2016 09:41
always impressing what you do here! i have to give up. i am not able to even finish a game because of all runtime errors. you will probably never see one of my final games.
i really love your stuff here, it's the top of possible things with game guru. i hope you will never have these error- parade that i have.
looking forward to seeing more!
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Ertlov
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Posted: 1st Dec 2016 12:49
Quote: " it's the top of possible things with game guru"


Grinding my teeth, I have to agree.
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Posted: 15th Jan 2017 20:39 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 16:25
Thank you Ertlov and Nuncio! Due to time constraints, I'll focus my efforts on a short prequel kinda game in this 'verse. I hope the game in motion will strike your taste as well

I haven't updated this for a while because I was finishing my test game and have been trying things here and there. I feel like I have progressed enough to give this another whirl (as I try to achieve a higher quality than in my SF games)

UPDATE MIGRATED TO PAGE 3
Emrys
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Posted: 16th Jan 2017 16:15 Edited at: 16th Jan 2017 16:16
I'm completely blown away, looks amazing

Where are all those people saying GG can't produce good visuals? Send them this way
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stor
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Posted: 16th Jan 2017 18:34
Emrys : GG can't produce good visuals. Just a joke.
You have done an amazing job!!! Waiting to play it.
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