Product Chat / 32Bit vs 64Bit

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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 24th Nov 2016 09:15
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I have just seen that Unity is ending 32bit support

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/11/15/end-of-support-for-32-bit-editor-for-windows/

Should this be the way GG goes, it would be interesting to see how many people are still using 32bit systems with GG.

I know file sizes for standalones maybe bigger, but, with a lot of PC games now clocking in at over 30 - 40gb's GG's filesizes would still be smaller than that.

I use Windows 10, 64bit.

Lee if you read this, it might be worth looking into.

Also Lee was talking about a Unity or Unreal layer, but how about valves Half Life too, could that be layered in, just a thought.

Anyone else got any views on these ideas?
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Posted: 24th Nov 2016 12:47
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Many of us have asked for this over the years. Mainly to increase the memory limit we currently have. I'm sure 64 bit will give a slight performance boost as well, but mainly it gives the chance to use better textures throughout, or just more objects with smaller ones. Standalone's would only be bigger because you could load more stuff up

So I agree, the majority of us use and have used a 64 bit O/S and hardware for years. Even Steam surveys show most users use a 64 bit system these days. It would be a happy day if Lee announced GG was going 64 bit for most. It would probably take some time I imagine, but anything that improves the engine is a good thing imo.

The suggestion to use Unity or Unreal as the engine behind the scenes went down badly, which I can understand. I do think though, that the idea had merit if it meant access to Unreal's power and GG's ease of use. I don't rate Unity that much, so Unreal would be the preference if it went that way for me. On saying that, I haven't used Unity for some time, it may well be a lot faster now.

I think I'd be okay if Lee did change to Unreal in all honesty Having used it not too long ago, I can safely say that if I could have coded things with lua as I do in GG, I would have kept on using it. There are a few other niggles with it as well, but that is mainly down to my system spec and Unreal's high quality shaders. I'd live with it until I could get a faster CPU.


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Posted: 24th Nov 2016 12:54
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GG is built on DBPro DirectX 9.0c which is 32 bit.
GG uses the Bullet Physics engine which is also 32 bit.
It would be a complete rewrite of DBPro and replacement of the physics engine which would be a monumental task.
I believe that GG will never be 64 bit.
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 24th Nov 2016 12:58
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I know Lee was looking at Vulkan, I dont know how far that got, but it looked interesting. Im hoping for 64bit to keep GG future proof. Now that GG is a C++ engine we can live in hope.
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Posted: 24th Nov 2016 15:27
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Renamed as its not really Unity Vs GG ....
Its all about 32 and 64 bit and avoids it being locked or moved
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 24th Nov 2016 15:36
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ok thanks synchromesh, wasn't sure what to call the thread.
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Posted: 24th Nov 2016 19:01
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I don't think that much of the code must be rewritten for 64bit... it's just another way to compile it. Not very complicated. Specially when most is C++ now.
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Posted: 24th Nov 2016 19:50
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@all:

Hi there,



No offenses, but, with so many important features missing in this game engine at this moment, to avoid its total failure as a product meant to create video games, and people arguing if the software should be rewritten for 64 bit instead of 32 bit. C'mon guys!

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Posted: 25th Nov 2016 05:55
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I Will be completely honest here, i have always Said gameplay over graphics. But having worked in Unity the past year it really makes a difference. When Gameguru released some years ago the graphics were acceptable barely. Problem is since Then they haven't Got better at all, actually i would argue that it's Got worse by using old assets from FPS maker + a lot of the assets on the store look like something from ps2 (not all but a lot of it) just take a look at what amateurs sell on the Unity store and compare the quality.

And yes i know the argument that Gameguru is a 20 euro engine, but i rather pay 100 for it if that meant getting a much better product.

Something needs to happen and i think a lot of you know that too

Either make it a framework for Unity or Unreal yes it would take time but it would basically also automatically finish a lot of the stuff from the community vote

Otherwise higher the price of GG if that's what needed to fund more employees.
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Posted: 25th Nov 2016 09:13 Edited at: 25th Nov 2016 09:18
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I disagree with quality of models ....
They may not look so good in GameGuru due to its limitations but most models are very good quality ...
I could pay up to $100 for a model fully rigged like this on Turbosquid yet its on the store for $5.00.

Here is a $119 dollar one from Turbo Squid .. http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/t-rex-rigged-3d-c4d/814338

and here is just one Just one of Harry Wevers creations ... for $5.00

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Posted: 25th Nov 2016 09:32 Edited at: 25th Nov 2016 09:59
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Ya know all this trying to compare with Unity is a waste of time ....
Unity has over 1000 staff and god knows how many are programmers ... Yes the Unity stuff people show may look very cool here on the GG forums in comparison .... But on the Unity forums its everyday stuff ... That's not trying to shoot it down because that takes a hell of a lot of work ...But anyone can try it and see what they think ... Its not exclusive ..

GG is a totally different animal ... Its not trying to compete or be any of those engines ...
No doubt there are some features in GG that would stop many a headache in Unity and Unreal4 ....
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TazMan
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Posted: 25th Nov 2016 11:40
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Quote: "GG is a totally different animal ... Its not trying to compete or be any of those engines ...
No doubt there are some features in GG that would stop many a headache in Unity and Unreal4 ...."


Well said synchromesh, it could not have been said any better. We keep getting people trying to compare GG with others, and as far as I am concerned it is a waste of time.
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Posted: 25th Nov 2016 12:30
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Indeed, well said Synchromesh.

We don't want GG to be Unity, Unreal or any other engine - if they float your boat we can just use them if we want to.

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Posted: 25th Nov 2016 12:35
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Well I have to disagree here a little.

Yes, we don't want GG to be like Unity or Unreal exactly. I sure all prefer the mechanics of GG, that's the main reason we use it.

However, I can't see anyone complaining if the speed of GG was at least a little closer to both these engines Also having more memory to play with would help in all areas.


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Posted: 25th Nov 2016 13:18
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Quote: "However, I can't see anyone complaining if the speed of GG was at least a little closer to both these engines Also having more memory to play with would help in all areas."

I agree, and I think it could achieve if GG just take care about the assets in the scene.
Terrain, trees, are fps killers.

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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 09:22 Edited at: 26th Nov 2016 09:25
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@Dvader / 3com

Of course I agree that would be awesome ....
I wasn't saying GG didn't need it or would never have that speed I just meant comparing to Unity just isn't a fair match ...
Its a funny thing if you look from both perspectives .... After the last 3 years users expect the speed and Gfx of Unity
But from my perspective After 11 years I would expect the Simplicity and mechanics of GG in Unity
But that's just me ...
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Sanguis
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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 13:43
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Perhaps Users just expect a thing that says "I'm 2016"... or even 2015. I don't think GG needs all the Unity staff. That would be way to overpowered. GG needs to stay the easy game maker. But the games there were made should be fit in actual expectations. Not just for the developers but even the players at the end.
With this I don't mean the game mechanics in Game. I mean the basic framework around it.
Take a look at the CPU usage of a GG Game. For me it is more than the last GTA, even if my map is empty. Than the high usage of RAM. That's not normal in 2016 and it's not that hard to make the changes to lower both: 64bit, More CPU Cores usage and a higher directX Version. But only 64bit would do so many. Corse actuall CPU's are optimized in 64bit performance. 32bit is still there but don't getting any Optimization.

And I think it's easyer to change things at InGame mechanics if the framework that runs it is nearly actual.
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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 14:26 Edited at: 26th Nov 2016 14:27
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Lee need firts write engine enterely in C++, before porting from 32 to 64bits, now GG is working with mixed code I thought.
I don't think porting engine from 32 to 64 is so easy, Lee will has to deal with a lot variables (long to long long for example), and deal with magical numbers, there should be a lot, specially addressing to memory handle, storing integers, dealing with pointers, and so on. Just my thoughts

This guys explain far better than me, what I mean: http://www.viva64.com/en/a/0004/

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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 15:05
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I know what you mean... I had to do this for all of my projects. But... it was 3-4 years ago. The longer lee is waiting with this conversion, it will be more difficult. Because it continues that things are changing. Not only in C++ itself, even the hardware that is adressed.
I think it will be 2-3 years, than 32bit CPU's are really outdated. With luck, only deprecated. Than Lee has this choice: Rewrite GG or stop GG and make a new product. I fear this a little bit.

Don't get me wrong, Lee created a great product with GG and it is wonderful what still could be done in DarkBasic. But the future? Intels Kaby Lake give us an amazing performance - with 64bit. It's not bad at 32bit but not much more than skylake 32bit...
At the moment it is just annoying that GG isn't using the performance that it could. With KabyLake it will be really questionable. KabyLake is cheap with max performance and I think that many new PC's/Laptops will have it. How many technic Generations will GG miss in future? I don't think thats a good way to keep GG alive.
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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 16:08
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The fact that it relies solely on new sales for funding I would not expect much more in the way of development on GG.
I believe that GG has probably reached its end of any new development.
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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 16:42
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Yes I believe this is most likely true, development isn't going to flourish much more, shame really but that's business for you.
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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 16:58
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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 18:41
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Considering the huge to do list, I would think they would have some way to go as yet. It seems work is slower at the moment, but I doubt it will be quite as drastic as you say. I would think it would be a faster easier job to go the Unity/Unreal route if that were the case.


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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 19:17 Edited at: 26th Nov 2016 19:18
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Lee needs to step on the accelerator, clearly this is much easier said than done; However GG needs a drastic change.
I also do not think this is the end, it is rather a difficult stage to be overcome.
Working under pressure, I think Lee is already used to this, however it is something to keep in mind.

Anyway Santa will bring us something to go playing, in the meantime.

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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 19:30 Edited at: 26th Nov 2016 19:31
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Quote: "Yes I believe this is most likely true, development isn't going to flourish much more, shame really but that's business for you."


This is exactly how I felt when I heard about the store being sold. The way I see it, for continued funding other than the base price of the game and its existing DLC's, they will either have to produce a constant flow of new DLC's, and hope people buy them, or prioritize other projects and fund Game Guru from them, either way it's going to pull focus away from Game Guru development

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Posted: 26th Nov 2016 23:26 Edited at: 26th Nov 2016 23:29
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Quote: "This is exactly how I felt when I heard about the store being sold"


Yeah, lol I thought exactly that too. When the store changed I said to myself the GG is dead! In fact I haven't put anything in the store since the changeover because I am sceptical about where this will all wind up.

The fact that it is taking so long to get the EBE out the door tells me it is already on the back burner - I just hope I am wrong there thou! It also tells me that the voting board has the potential to kill any real development of the product - core dev is way more important that having minecraft in the editor.

But yah know if Lee asked, I would pledge again to keep GG actively developed, as long as the focus was on the core of the engine, and bells left till later when the engine was purring like a kitten.

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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 00:50 Edited at: 30th Nov 2016 00:58
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In my city its almost impossible to actually find 32 bit consumer units. I'd say this has been the case for the past 2 years now. Pretty much everyone I know is running on Windows 7 (64 bit) at the least. Ever since Windows dropped security support for XP the prices for Windows 7 machines went down and many of the computers that were paired with the OS, were packed with 64 bit versions of them. This is due to the fact that businesses cannot operate on an unsupported OS. Its just bad practice.

However since this was debated very early on in FPSC Reloaded's development I think its now a possible dead issue. Would require a lot of conversions and re-writes as all mentioned above. I mean we are behind on a great many things as it is, so changing up the core at this point would be a whole different ball game. I think when GG reaches a satisfactory point in development and there is enough funding to start a 64 bit version... Maybe then and only then should it be considered. Least that's my opinion. As amazing as it would be to have that extra memory expansion provided with a 64 bit solution.

Quote: "
But yah know if Lee asked, I would pledge again to keep GG actively developed, as long as the focus was on the core of the engine, and bells left till later when the engine was purring like a kitten."


Yep. I've even suggested the ability to pay for feature votes. Maybe say it gives you 5000 more points towards your vote.
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 01:07 Edited at: 27th Nov 2016 01:08
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Quote: "The fact that it is taking so long to get the EBE out the door tells me it is already on the back burner "

I think that was down to the big issue when it kicked off about things being unfinished and not yet fixed ...Its not on any back burner ..It just looks like Lee is just doing as requested and getting some of these things added, Fixed and stable first ..

Quote: "But yah know if Lee asked, I would pledge again to keep GG actively developed, as long as the focus was on the core of the engine, and bells left till later when the engine was purring like a kitten."

I would be all in and even set up a Direct Debit to assist in the Development of GG if it would help ...
However I feel spending months on the core now isn't the time because if that takes a couple of months and then you start adding features after you could undo what you have done ..... Better to get as much in as possible so we can create ( optimising as you go ) and then hit the engine with a huge optimisation when a lot of the key features are in .....Well that my opinion anyway

Finally there has been NO TALK OR PLANS TO DROP GG .... So again speculating will only create anxiety and more speculation ...
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 01:18
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Quote: "I think it will be 2-3 years, than 32bit CPU's are really outdated"


They have been outdated for quite a few years now, however even with W10 there is still 32bit support.
What does change, and this is already the case with Skylake/Bristol-ridge, there is no more support from Microsoft for new hardware in combination with older windows versions.
Older generation hardware still receives support until 2020.
So it is really a push from Microsoft to get us to choose for the newest version if we buy a new setup.
Sweet words about huge performance gains are something i take with a grain of salt, well, microsoft can of course tweak the older versions a little with driver updates.

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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 10:53
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Im very happy with GG, Lee has done a fantastic job up optimising so far. The results I'm getting are astounding now, even my standalones run very very well, with little if any bad slowdown, and if you have seen the map level I'm doing currently, It's pretty damned detailed, I can't seem to stall or crash GG at all, (I'm trying)

Custom scripts run fine, I use dynamic lighting, so I'm not sure how the Pre-bake is working now, I just hope we get more lights soon and a better flashlight.

On the whole, very pleased here.
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 12:12
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Quote: "Better to get as much in as possible so we can create ( optimising as you go ) and then hit the engine with a huge optimisation when a lot of the key features are in .....Well that my opinion anyway "


The point is... when optimazion (to 64bit, not for 32bit) is done first, it is huge way easyer to get the teatures above it and there are ne things possible. Yes, it's boring for us when this is a project of month. But nearly everything after this can be done faster. This would be great for the future. Isn't this more important instead of unstable and old workarounds that make it harder to integrate new things?

I would pay for it, too. I love the thoughts behind GG and I would love to see it on a moders base. I would love to see what it could be in the next years then.
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 12:57
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32 bit = 4 gig memory less any O/S use.

64bit = 16 Exabytes of memory, which I think is about 16 million terrabytes. Theoretically of course, but still you can see why the possibilities are so much better with 64 bit. It has so much memory most of us have never heard of it.

About time Intel went 128 bit lol ;p 64 bit has been around so long now...


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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 13:25
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Pay for voting board is a great IDEA put your money where your mouth is. This is will fund tgc greatly and hopefully if they get the cash from the votes will keep em going. Kind of like monthly pledges. And hopefully no millionaire kid asking for.silly things
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 15:28
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Quote: "The fact that it relies solely on new sales for funding I would not expect much more in the way of development on GG.
I believe that GG has probably reached its end of any new development."

You've been saying AGK is dead for a while now too, TGC have been around for years with what can be referred to as "little known" products... Sometimes development gets slow or made redundant but they're still going and GG is new, it has had a rocky start but to abandon it now wouldn't gain them anything either.

We don't know the specifics of the store sale and its very likely TGC still get a small cut from sales or a set payment.

Things will be slow for Xmas now too so don't be expecting miracles
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 16:35 Edited at: 27th Nov 2016 16:51
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Quote: "We don't know the specifics of the store sale and its very likely TGC still get a small cut from sales or a set payment."

The store cost TGC a lot of money to maintain on a constant 24 hr basis and steam taking their mandatory cut didn't help....
In order for Jason to make changes, modifications, and features users wanted he had to go through TGC first and no doubt his skills are also not cheap

The perfect solution was Jason to run it as his own .... Could have even been his idea for all I know ... Seems to me everyone wins ..
It wasn't a panic attack .... More of a good business solution and a little Crafty
TGC can still have a store .... Steam cant charge anything ... Jason can make all the changes and add all the features he wants ..
The only people that should be upset is steam really
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 16:54 Edited at: 27th Nov 2016 17:19
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I have always said that this was a strategic move.
Removing steam from the equation.



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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 18:43
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Over the years ...under different names ...I have been in and out of
The Game Creators store and used almost all the main programs that have been developed.
I bought DBClassic and used it and loved how it's development went along till all of a sudden it seemed to stall
and get nowhere. then along came DBPro and I got that and the same thing happened.Then I got DarkGDK.,,,,
then Dark Edit........DarkMatter....Darkvoices......DarkShader.......FPS Creator.......Tree Magik......Plant Life.....
Cartography Shop.......Dark A.I.......then bought DarkGame Studio....went on to buy
FPSC 10x.....and each time..what happened....all of a sudden when there seemed to be great progress
about to happen....each of these projects started to quickly dwindle in progress and and " NEW PROJECT " came along
with promises similar to a presidential election...." bigger and better is just ahead ! "
So now , we have had GAME GURU and up until recently the progress has been pretty amazing and a lot of fun....
NOW....once again...along come another project " App GAME KIT " and the company focus seems to go to that and progress
on Game Guru....thought NOT at a halt.....sure has slowed down,,,,,,SO , all this having been said.....I STILL HOPE GAME GURU IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO SHOW PROGRESS......but looking at the STEAMSTORE for game guru now,,,,,,the criticism from newer reviewers is ruthless in its negativity and the forum activity is deathlike.
Here , there is still a core of wonderful and supportive individuals who reach out to help and teach and encourages others
and I sure hope that too will continue.
I Truly hope Lee reads the forums and gets a feel for the state of affairs that is developing over the last little while
surrounding the overall reputation of the company and its projects and his ability to actually bring a COMPLETED , FUNCTIONAL project to full fruition......I'd like to continue to support the GAME GURU idea....I WANT to........I am willing do...
and,,,,I WILL...........for now..........with an open mind.........and based on the upcoming results.
In the meantime , lets have fun as there is so much potential now , so close....yes ...SO CLOSE........Keep it up !!

sorry for the rant.

UNIRD12B
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 19:00 Edited at: 27th Nov 2016 19:00
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Quote: "we have had GAME GURU and up until recently the progress has been pretty amazing and a lot of fun....
NOW....once again...along come another project " App GAME KIT " "

Hmmm .... App Game Kit has been out since 2011 ... Long before GameGuru
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 19:13 Edited at: 27th Nov 2016 19:14
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64bit all the way...

It's going to go that way anyway. It has too or go under. Maybe 32bit will be supported to some degree for so long or made open source. Who knows?

For the few who can see GG really being part of the indie game development; we will always want to make more demands that 32bit can never really deliver over time.

Lee and his team have done a great job over the years. Just maybe they need fresh blood in the mix.
I would love to see them release a full game themselves that may spark some interest from game engine developers. Just like epic games did with UT unreal, CCP and eve online, etc. Now they have the gamer(s) developers from the gaming background they want. Look how they are doing now!
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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 27th Nov 2016 19:26
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yes Syncromesh ,
your right , I wasn't meaning to imply that its a new project,,,,most of us know that , but ,
it seems to all of a sudden be the new " prodigal son " so to speak , as it SEEMS that for the last little while
news and updates for Game Guru have been few and far between.
and as you saw...I have supported TGC for many years in the background.
I would just like to see ONE project by the company , actually be functionally completed is all.
Look on steam now ...Game Guru is being almost given away now ...CDN$ 7.69......and still...because of so much
negativity in the reviews , I'm sure sales are suffering...and what would the BEST answer to that negativity..but to
answer back to it....with POSITIVE results...that is all I'm saying.....
I REALLY like Game Guru...A LOT.......and will continue with it.......

P.S im sure you also know and used MOST of the other projects I mentioned
how many do you still use....and why not ?

Please do NOT take any of this in a bad way......sometimes , when someone is wearing a white suit with a big black mark
on the back of it , that they can't see , a good friend , has to bring it to their attention.....NOT to denigrate them , but , to help them fix it.

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Posted: 28th Nov 2016 02:46
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What should be the first and foremost step in the development of GG is of course a proper working a.i which can function at height and climb stairs, swim and so on.
Without that, any project such as the work of art which bod is currently building and which has the potential to really elevate GG as a good game engine, will not come to fruition.

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/214805

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Posted: 28th Nov 2016 06:16
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Quote: "I STILL HOPE GAME GURU IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO SHOW PROGRESS......but looking at the STEAMSTORE for game guru now,,,,,,the criticism from newer reviewers is ruthless in its negativity and the forum activity is deathlike."


Yeah, and (funny enough) that's the reason why they can't abandon GameGuru and sell a new project without going into bankruptcy.
Now the age of Steam is here, meaning that most GG customers getting notice of the "new horse" beign sold would immediately downrate all positive, uprate all negative reviews and warn all the potential buyers of "New Engine Supercool" to stay the hell away.

Basically, the current GG users have the power and means to sink every new TGC Store Release on Steam, and I am pretty sure they would do so when really being left alone. That's not only true for GG and TGC, all companies had to step up their community management and be more truthful to their promises since Steam is the #1.
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Posted: 28th Nov 2016 07:39
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The store shift didn't actually concern me that much. Apart from how it would affect sales of course. The work Jason does on it is quite amazing. He really deserves a bigger piece of the pie and I'm sure cutting out Steam helps with that.
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Posted: 28th Nov 2016 10:56 Edited at: 28th Nov 2016 10:57
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@3com
LOL Nice script
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Posted: 28th Nov 2016 12:29
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Quote: "The store shift didn't actually concern me that much. Apart from how it would affect sales of course. The work Jason does on it is quite amazing. He really deserves a bigger piece of the pie and I'm sure cutting out Steam helps with that."


I have to agree, this is one of the best asset stores for engines I know.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 28th Nov 2016 16:36
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Quote: "Pay for voting board is a great IDEA put your money where your mouth is. This is will fund tgc greatly and hopefully if they get the cash from the votes will keep em going. Kind of like monthly pledges. And hopefully no millionaire kid asking for.silly things "
You know what, that is where I draw the line, TGC got a $100 out of me for the product development.

That said I got in return $3000 +- back on custom work done for TGC and competitions won, that is not even considering the store commission earned thus far, so I have made a decent penny, so I don't really have a leg to stand on .

None the less the funding was suppose to go towards the features promised, so I am hard press to say TGC isn't getting another penny until the deliver on those promises first. Additional funding isn't going to fix things, not even remotely, the development direction needs to be fixed, cut losses and focus on what is important, graphics and core features, get the engine looking great, then focus on the side quests....

Voting board speaks for it self, pointless and wasting massive amounts of time.
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Posted: 29th Nov 2016 20:52
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Quote: "TGC got a $100 out of me for the product development."


Good point wizard. Same here...
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Posted: 30th Nov 2016 00:18
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This conversation has been had countless times a few years back.

I have also been very vocal about how terrible the idea of the voting board is and so have others.



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synchromesh
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Posted: 30th Nov 2016 01:32
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Quote: "Voting board speaks for it self, pointless and wasting massive amounts of time."

Good or bad I think AI has been put off for way to long .... I cant say I'm disappointed its next on the list.
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Posted: 1st Dec 2016 17:51 Edited at: 1st Dec 2016 17:53
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Hi guys, I just want you to know after speaking to a contact at Intel and with a little research with Asus, Nvidia and Microsoft; there is a new Intel chip which is going to be 128bit. They have already been in development of the 128bit chip for just over 3 years with great results. They will not be in production until the last Q4 of 2017. I’m guessing ready for xmas. The move is to support core CPU demands, targeting the business and high end design market, but it won’t be long before it hits the main stream. They are working closely with Nvidia, Asus and Microsoft to support the Intel chip. Intel has said you will be able to run multiple OS including Microsoft, Linux and osX+ with a few clicks of the keyboard.

Nvidia are also working with Asus to build the first early motherboards to support the new Intel 128bit non-business PC. From what I could find out at Nvidia it is the way forward for design companies, film studios and is what the high end gaming graphics developers have been asking for.

Microsoft have also said the new os will change the way you will use Windows Edge (I think the Edge means cutting edge of tech) and the possibility for the new generations of gaming consoles from Microsoft will be endless.

Now Intel has said that they will not be making a press release until April 2017.
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