Product Chat / GameGuru MAX Alpha Build Released!

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 17:17
@trykxta : Post a screenshot of the error and confirm you are running Windows 10 with latest drivers, thanks!
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

LeeBamber
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 17:19
@Argent_Arts : Some good observations! Interested to hear what others think, and possible solutions
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

Earthling45
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 17:30
I agree with A_A, it also creates the ability to add some info on a tab or icon for lights i think.
Monkey Frog
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 17:43
If lights are their own thing (i.e. there is an icon on the top bar that, when clicked, opens options on the right-side panel) then there would be no need to have different colored lights and spotlights (white, red, yellow, etc.). Instead, you could click the Light icon (such as a light bulb) and then select the type of light (area or spot) on the right-side panel. Then you could use a color wheel (or some such) to select the exact color for your light (along with other things like size, fade, etc.). This simplifies things while giving the end-user a ton of control over their lights all in one place.
Loretta
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 17:44 Edited at: 16th Apr 2020 18:06
I just got a chance to install and test out GGMAX this AM. I AM SO PSYCHED!!! and VERY HAPPY with the Alpha!
Thank you Lee and All working on this...
I was actually able to build a small Map and go in using my Samsung Odyssey Headset. It worked Great!
The frame rate is a little slow when Windows Mixed Reality is running at the same time but I will tweak things and see what I can do.
Also I assume that will be faster in the a stand alone version, once we can save those.

When will we be able to save a stand alone?

There were some weird reflection things going on with water, but again I assume some tweaking will fix that.
EDIT: So far I have noticed that the drop down for "Behaviours" under "Entity Properties" doesn't Highlight anything when you try to select it.
I will jump in and play some more a little later today but I am VERY HAPPY so far.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 17:54 Edited at: 16th Apr 2020 17:57
Lights, markers, etc?
How about a right-click on the map, and a menu pops up (Windows Style), and
more specialized items and options (including lights) are accessible that way??
Not intuitive enough? But we wouldn't have to hunt for more UI buttons.

I'd also like to see more than one column of "current entities" on the left panel
which could mean you might have a column for landscaping, you might have
a separate one for buildings, and a third for details // collectables // weapons
etc. Because once you get over 40 separate entities in your drag-list, browsing
for them does become a little burden.

---"this will fill the screen" I hear you say. Okay, then how about you hover the
mouse on the left side (Windows style again), and you can slide that panel of
columns out and back away. ((oooh now we getting too fancy!!))

What you would do is when you select the entity from the folder, you would drag
it into one of those columns... just a thought.

---"Sounds like it would work like an 'INVENTORY' menu." Oh sure, sounds good.
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 18:28
Quote: "Lights, markers, etc?
How about a right-click on the map, and a menu pops up (Windows Style), and
more specialized items and options (including lights) are accessible that way??
Not intuitive enough? But we wouldn't have to hunt for more UI buttons."


Hunt for UI buttons? There are a total of 19 buttons across the top. Have you ever tried to use Word and seen the number of icons there (for example)? If you have trouble finding what you're looking for with 19 icons, I don't know what to tell you. Now, what's wrong with just one more icon shaped like a light bulb? How hard would it be to find that (a light bulb shaped icon) when scanning across 20 total icons? And those icons are HUGE, btw.

There is nothing wrong with a right-click menu over the editor window ... as long as it's IN ADDITION to having the icon somewhere else. When new people start using the program, they don't normally try to locate things in a right-click menu, but on the UI itself. So, an icon should be there. And, as stated, not buried under Entities>Markers somewhere.
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 18:42 Edited at: 16th Apr 2020 18:45
Trying to be more efficient. I'm not against a lights button on the top,
but a right click menu could open up more than that, a whole other
world of options that might not be even on top of the UI, or as fast
otherwise. Imagine-- right click-- boom, lights, weather, PARTICLES!,
grass, ground texture, sun control, and so forth-- whatever comes in
handy. I'm not marketing the idea-- I'm offering some suggestions
that may or may not be much use to everyone.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 18:49
The obvious problem with the right-click idea is that there is already a
right-click use for panning the camera... so in fact that might be
a poor idea, or you would have to add something life shift/ RtClick,
which I don't think suites GG style...?
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 19:16
As stated, nothing wrong with a right-click menu. Please read what I stated above. However, many do not look there first. Else, everything would be in a right-click menu. The most commonly used features should be accessible via the top bar, me thinks.
DVader
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 19:16
Quote: "How about a right-click on the map, and a menu pops up (Windows Style), and
more specialized items and options (including lights) are accessible that way??
Not intuitive enough? But we wouldn't have to hunt for more UI buttons."


Took the words out of my mouth We have a right click menu for selected objects, so why not for placing them? Single right click opens a menu, left click off anywhere else and it vanishes. If you hold the right mouse down and move the mouse it just goes into 3d mode. That way we can add a lot of things without too much fuss. I'm not saying drop what is here, just add a right click menu to the mix; possibly just opening up the existing menu options that already exist in some cases.

I really think a simple right click menu would add a lot to GG as far as quick access to features goes. For adding items really quickly there's no better method I know of.

Quote: "When new people start using the program, they don't normally try to locate things in a right-click menu"

@Argent_Arts I normally do lol. Automatic, as so many 3D packages use it. I agree though both are preferable. I'd even add a markers button as well. I also find it weird adding a new entity to then add a marker. I've been using GG too long for it to compute.
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 20:28
Heh. I don't think I am communicating clearly enough. Sorry about that. Let me try one last time.

GUIs have evolved over the decades and have, for the most part, fallen into a pattern that tends to work in most cases, especially for more complex programs. Typically, a commonly used function can be discovered at least three ways - 1) via a menu, 2) via a button/icon on a toolbar, and 3) via a keyboard shortcut.

The fastest way to work in any program is via keyboard shortcuts. When I work in 3D or 2D, most of the time I will access a program's core functions via keyboard shortcuts. Therefore, I will hit "B" to change to a brush in Photoshop instead of moving my mouse cursor all the way over to the brush icon on the side toolbar. But keyboard shortcuts are not typically used by new users as they have to learn them and get used to them. So, that leaves finding functions via menus and, of course, the commonly used functions are often right there on a tool panel of some kind.

When it comes to LIGHTS in GameGuru MAX, they are not easily discoverable because they don't readily appear in ANY of these. Well, yes, there are in a panel of sorts, but hidden under Markers, which is hidden under Entities. This makes Lights not easily discoverable to the new user. Longtime GameGuru users should be able to figure it out since this is where lights have always been. But this is supposed to be an "easy game maker" and I am sure TGC wants more and more people to use the software. Therefore, I am suggesting that Lights be moved out of Entities>Markers and be discoverable via the three common ways of finding core functions (as outlined above). Therefore, there should be, in my opinion, the following:

- An icon on the top bar, along with the 19 others, for lights
- Lights discoverable via a menu (and, yes, that includes a right-click menu)
- A keyboard shortcut that allows the end-user to place a light

So, my main suggestion the first time around was really more about MOVING lights from the Marker panel to some place more discoverable, especially for new users. And, now, due to the discussion, it makes sense that lights follow the common GUI pattern I talked about above.
IceVANPS
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 20:58
@MadLad Designs
Quote: "@IceVANPS: In top-down view, you can raise / lower the camera with the , and . keys (holding shift moves the camera faster). You can raise / lower the camera with the [ and ] keys in 3D mode. "


Thanks for the reply, but I don't mean that.

In Free Fligth view I cannot easily raise and lower the camera. I can only look up or down and then go forward or backward.

In other editors like Unity3D I can move with WASD just like Gameguru and I can also move vertically (Y global axis) with the QE keys.
This makes it much easier to edit and place objects on the scene.
WS - Forward / Backward (Z local axis)
AD - Strafe left / right (X local axis)
QE - raise / lower (Y GLOBAL axis )
DVader
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 21:22 Edited at: 16th Apr 2020 21:23
@Argent_Arts Firstly, I missed your last post as I took my time trying to get my post to make sense, without writing a sermon; and I even paused for a long phone call in-between It seems like we agree, I still think entities, markers and lights all deserve their own icons. Having a right click menu would be a useful addition for basics which are commonly used

But as a long term sufferer of Blender, although they are great when your in practise...
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Petr Surtr
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 21:52
@Loretta, happy to hear your enthusiastic review! Reading your post, it's clear you're goin to use the engine mostly for developing vr games, and that's just what I'm interested too. What about a possible collaboration? I'm quiet comfortable in designing levels, gameplay mechanics and games concept, can't say the same about modeling and above all scripting.
Let me know if you're in, even pm me if you like.
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Here's Waldo
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 22:09
I copied all of my entities from GG to GGMAX. I can put everything into the scene, but when I test the game, only non-characters are visible. I don't even know if they are there. Can I set up these old characters to speak or even appear in the future?

Also, when you write the manual, I would appreciate a comprehensive manual of the scripts so that when I modify the copies of the scripts to do special things, I can know in more detail what each function does and if it is necessary to include the functions called in the scripts. I've been following the specific script changes in the forums to do various things and I've examined the list of functions on Steam and watched the script videos on youtube. But most explanations don't give enough details of the functions and the other function calls within the functions. For instance, if I want to play a song or voice in GG using the play_music function it sometimes loops. I have to use stop_music with the fade length the same length as the song. When i destroy a certain entity, another entity of the same type with a different (or same) name that uses the same script also gets destroyed at the same time, even though the player is no where near it to trigger the script. I just wish there was an in-depth manual of the scripts. I hate spending endless hours trying to figure out how to do what I want.
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Loretta
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 23:38
Petr Surtr thanks, appreciate the offer.
I am not quite ready for that just yet but will keep it in mind.

Thanks!
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 16th Apr 2020 23:40 Edited at: 16th Apr 2020 23:41
@DVader
Quote: "But as a long term sufferer of Blender, although they are great when your in practise..."


Yep. I get it. The problem with Blender (more so in versions previous to 2.8) is that it was almost the ONLY way to work well in Blender. Else you were hunting forever to do this or that. Not so in other software. Even so, learning keyboard shortcuts is the fastest way to work. Who would want to copy/paste via the menu every time instead of hitting CTRL+C or CTRL+V? Or have to navigate to the menu each time you needed to undo something?

Quote: "It seems like we agree, I still think entities, markers and lights all deserve their own icons."


Yep! I am in total agreement with you.
MadLad Designs
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 00:43
Weird, it's been fine and all of a sudden this...

Check out my YouTube Gaming Channel: /user/MadLadDesigns
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OldFlak
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 01:47 Edited at: 17th Apr 2020 01:49
Yeah, not bad for an Alpha - not bad at all.....

With regard to lights and markers. To me, Lights are not Markers, and should be in separate categories.

I know we have layers of sorts, but when it comes to complex level design it would be much more Dev friendly to be able to add our own layers at different heights, and be able to lock\unlock them with a simple checkbox list.

After much work with zones and lights on Racha, I can honestly say the only time markers are kinda user friendly is when they are on completely flat terrain and at ground level.

But on uneven terrain they are a right pain.
For example: put a model up in the air, like sticking out over a ravine, and put a zone there. The zone points are almost impossible to align to the shape of the model, and when you load\edit the level a few times the points for the zone will often be all over the place like they are trying to follow the terrain. But they should stay flat in 2D space, after all, the models floor is likely flat

It can be difficult to select lights when they are on top of a zone marker, so at the very least it would be good to improve the current setup and have a marker icon - and - a light icon, along with the entity icon on the toolbar.

select entity icon - only models can be selected
select marker icon - only markers can be edited
select light icon - only lights can be edited

Just my two cents

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3com
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 06:25
My two cents.



The same can be done with markers.
Just giving ideas, as usually.
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Teabone
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 08:29 Edited at: 17th Apr 2020 08:30
Having some fun customizing the CC attachment meshes.

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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 09:36
@3com - That's certainly nice! Thanks for putting that together.

I would say this, though - there is already a context sensitive right-side panel used to adjust the settings for things like terrain brushes, placing grass, etc. It would make sense, to me, to use that for lights (and markers, etc.) for the sake of consistency.

As a side note - I don't get having various lights of various colors as presets. Most 3D programs don't do this. You only get a selection of light types (area lights, spot lights, etc.) and when you go to create or edit one, you gain access to a panel to make that light what you like (the color, how bright, area of affect, etc.). In my opinion, keep it simple. Offer types of lights and let the end-user make their own settings. Having said that, I can see allowing the end-user to save preset lights so they can easily reuse them in a project.
3com
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 10:04
You can access the configuration panel via toolbar icon and / or via shortcut.
Once there you can choose and configure the light you want, once this is done you should be able to save the light as a preset, to use in your project.

I think that a panel with the entities used in the project would be fine.

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/221719
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 10:11
Thanks.

Quote: "I think that a panel with the entities used in the project would be fine. "


What I meant was that GameGuru MAX already has a context sensitive panel on the right-side for things like this. Why not use it instead of creating another panel? It's there. It functions for things like terrain brushes, etc. All Lee would need to do is make it display light related info (color, size, etc.) when creating or editing a light.
Belidos
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 10:48
Any chance we can get a forum section for GameGuruMax?

I'm already getting confused over whether people are talking about Classic or Max and i'm sure less informed people are going to be asking questions and mixing them up too.

If we have a GameGuruMax forum section for Max discussions we can go straight there for advice etc. Also, a set of read only sticky posts at the top of that could be made for things like Hardware Requirements, updates about work being done, announcement for new alpha builds, live broadcast or youtube video releases, and so on.

It really would help a lot if we could have somewhere organised to jump to to discuss and get info about Max without having to go through every thought going through the communities head in the general sections.

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mikeven
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 10:57
Hi everybody,

A big thank you to the Game Guru Developers for this superb GG Max Alpha Build.



(My PC config : custom made hardware with Intel Core i7-8700K 3.70 GHz - 16 GB RAM - Graphic Card : AMD Radeon RX580 (8 GB GDDR5) - Windows 10).
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OldFlak
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 11:10 Edited at: 17th Apr 2020 11:21
Quote: "I would say this, though - there is already a context sensitive right-side panel used to adjust the settings for things like terrain brushes, placing grass, etc. It would make sense, to me, to use that for lights (and markers, etc.) for the sake of consistency."

Yeah definitely agree there. The markers and lights were in the right place in Classic. There was no need to change that imo, just stick them on their own tabs over on the right menu

Quote: "As a side note - I don't get having various lights of various colors as presets. "

Never understood that either. Maybe just to give several default colours, but in my use I have never used any of the lights wit the default colour, so kinda pointless

Quote: "Any chance we can get a forum section for GameGuruMax?"

Yeah have to agree. +1
Kind remember Lee saying they didn't want to do that, but seams inevitable to me.

On a side note, is there a toggle switch to get characters speaking. Tried a few times but they never do anything like the demos, sometimes they will walk up to the player but they never say anything. Must be missing something....

One thing that needs to go imo is the 'This an alpha version" blurb in test game - surely there is no point to that

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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 11:31
Quote: "One thing that needs to go imo is the 'This an alpha version" blurb in test game - surely there is no point to that"


I kind of think there is, actually. With all the comments I've read on Discord and YouTube to the tune of, "This looks just like the current GameGuru, but with a new UI!" Etc., etc. It seems that Lee needs to take every opportunity to let people know that we're still dealing with an alpha version of MAX. If any of us were to post screen shots, and that "This is an alpha version" is not a part of it, someone, somewhere will get all bent out of shape about how MAX looks just like Classic, etc. In fact, it will still happen any way.
Belidos
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 11:52
Quote: "One thing that needs to go imo is the 'This an alpha version" blurb in test game - surely there is no point to that"


It most definitely is needed, and it needs to be more prominent and in the editor too! I've already been speaking with two or three people a day since alpha release, who don't seem to understand it's an alpha and not complete, one was quite rude about it and said Max's failed release was disgusting LOL.

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Belidos
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 11:54
Found an issue with the Entity Catalogue:

If you add an entity to the entitybank and place it in a custom folder inside the user folder, the entity catalogue can't find it, placing a custom folder whether via the importer creating it or doing it manually, just isn't detected.

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Fitz marc ade
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 12:17
I love the new U.I. and the speed of rendering in the editor with grass and weather effects. I know it is only an Alpha version, but I wanted to mention that the E.B.E. system you can not add new .BMP images for say Doors and Windows prefabs. Was going to mention the custom Entities, but was beaten to it.

I am patiently trying to wait for a usable version to be released so I can begin making something as this looks to be awesome product. Will be patiently waiting for the next released! version !

Thank you!
Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 13:05
Quote: "I've already been speaking with two or three people a day since alpha release, who don't seem to understand it's an alpha and not complete, one was quite rude about it and said Max's failed release was disgusting LOL."


These are obviously people that are simply ignorant and don't have a clue (and clearly can't read).
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OldFlak
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 13:58 Edited at: 17th Apr 2020 14:13
Quote: "I've already been speaking with two or three people a day since alpha release, who don't seem to understand it's an alpha and not complete, one was quite rude about it and said Max's failed release was disgusting LOL."


Lol - Just give them a jellybean and a nappy and walk away.

Matters not what the numbskulls out there say. I know it's alpha so I don't need a message to tell me that.



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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 14:41
Quote: "Matters not what the numbskulls out there say. I know it's alpha so I don't need a message to tell me that."


Yes, but if someone is using the alpha version of MAX and they post screen shots somewhere, then those screen shots will have the alpha warning, making it clear to whomever sees it that it's an alpha.
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 16:04
I preorder the software but I don't know where to download the file for GameGuruMax Alpha. Can some one please tell me.
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 16:26
In the top of this window there is an [account] button and links you can follow there to get the download.
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JC LEON
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 21:43 Edited at: 17th Apr 2020 21:43
Quote: "My two cents.




The same can be done with markers.
Just giving ideas, as usually.

"

simply amazing 3com... llight ages better than original one..

and what about glowing GG shader i seen in one of you video...can you make some sot of tut for it or share something.?. thanks
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m2design
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 21:58 Edited at: 17th Apr 2020 22:02
Hey she does speak after all. After she delivers her little speech she just becomes hanging wall paper. There, but no longer a real acting part of the scene.

http://u.cubeupload.com/beaumonde/c76logo.png
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trykxta
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Posted: 17th Apr 2020 21:59
Hey lee...
Thanks for the oh dah moment...lol....i recently did a fresh install and totally didnt even think of out dated drivers...
That was the issue thanks again....cant wait to test it out
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3com
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Posted: 18th Apr 2020 01:42
I'm happy with GGMax as is right now, just thinking about newcomers as suggested above.
I was playing a bit with the tabs, you can do many things with them, even docking tabs is supported, and they keep hidden till you need them, maybe not that intuitive but it will be, I'm sure about; anyway now is time for new terrain system/render/ and so on. imho.
Usually the gui is the lats thing the developer does, since alway these tools are temporary, or you change your thought, or you delete/add mmost of them, etc.

@ JC LEON
You don't need a tutorial to achieve this, you just have to attach the correct shader and you are done, as I commented in this thread:
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/221734
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JC LEON
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Posted: 18th Apr 2020 08:41 Edited at: 18th Apr 2020 08:42
Quote: "@ JC LEON
You don't need a tutorial to achieve this, you just have to attach the correct shader and you are done, as I commented in this thread:
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/221734"


Hiand thanks .. but i i would a shimmer effect like this?

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3com
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Posted: 18th Apr 2020 09:05
@ JC LEON
I don't remember doing anything similar in GG.
Anyway you should open a thread with your question, since this is not the thread topic.
I do not know if GG has the required shader right now to achieve this effect.
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Super Clark
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Posted: 18th Apr 2020 18:46
How does one remove the black fog around screen?

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JC LEON
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Posted: 18th Apr 2020 18:49
Quote: "How does one remove the black fog around screen?"


isnt the vignette shader?

if yes.. set it to zero
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Super Clark
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Posted: 18th Apr 2020 18:58
JC LEON thanks m8 that.s it could not remember for the life of me...
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BRS83
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Posted: 18th Apr 2020 19:59
Is there something I need to do to make Game Guru Max stop crashing to desktop at alpha splash screen? I can't even use it.

I tried looking in .ini files but nothing is working so far.

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JC LEON
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Posted: 18th Apr 2020 20:08
Quote: "JC LEON thanks m8 that.s it could not remember for the life of me..."

you' re welcome mate
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OldFlak
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Posted: 19th Apr 2020 05:33
@BRS83
Quote: "Is there something I need to do to make Game Guru Max stop crashing to desktop at alpha splash screen? I can't even use it. "

Could try running MAX with administrator rights - worked for me

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BRS83
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Posted: 19th Apr 2020 08:16
@OldFlak

The Shortcut is checked to run as Admin, no luck. Crashes to desktop.

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