Empty excuses coming from ignorance...oh, dread! He stood alone trying to open their eyes.

Yeah, yeah, keep your shirt on. I was trying to open your eyes a few posts above aswell, stating that, no, its not a bad idea, but its not going to happen... at least not here. Its also not like we all didn't have that idea before, I'm sure that every user at least entertained the fantasy that "this would be great if it ran under a more power ful engine".

What I find particularly juvenile about this thread is that you simply can not see after all these years that this is, as more seasoned members told you before, indeed an empty discussion. All you will get here is more responses like you have gotten before. TGC will not do a 180 so late in development and just convert everything to UE4 because you said so and the community can not do it so why keep this going?

GG drag and drop functionality in UE4? Would be amazing! Likelihood of TGC doing it? next to zero.

From 3Com:
[quote=I only say why I am using GG, personally I cannot add reasons about something I don't know how it works, the only thing I know is that it requires a lot of knowledge, time, resources, etc. to get something that I get here in seconds, and that gives me the opportunity to devote myself to what I like most, try to go beyond the limits, since the blueprint and all that would be fine to learn, but I know I would not settle for that and I know that I would quickly feel frustrated at not being able to do what I want and for which I would need a lot of time / money / knowledge etc.
Here I have freedom to let my imagination fly, develop my creativity, I don't have to worry about the details since GG takes care of that.]


Hail Caesar!
Last I check most of us still have a day job. Unless all here, are trying to make it as developers, then I take my hat off to you, I give you my sincere apologies and please believe me, I DO mean it!
For the rest of us, let's concentrate to have some fun for as long as the creative juices are flowing, without stress, time commitments, deadlines and the like. For what monetary assets we invest in GG, normally a LOT less than what we spend in the coffee shop or pub, (novelty idea) we receive a HUGE value in entertainment/brain food/emotional satisfaction of accomplishment and such, all with nearly no time limit and plenty of FREE REFILLS!!

Live for the simple things in life. Don't overthink or invest too much time on" what if" huge mergers and other such ventures, especially when we have no way oF participating, or try to influence someone else's plan in life, which we almost know nothing about.
I will close with one of my mottoes in life, let it be love, adventure, self development and of course Life. "For as long as it lasts".
Now, let's create some GG games and write some scripts!

"The King Is Dead, Long Live GG" !

@ Zigi pointless discussion .. unreal has all do you mention..tons and tons of fps asset and template ready to be customized at you pleasure..
unity the same...

and if you know how to search there are a lot better solutions of asset ready on the market and on the unity rgiht now that are a lot better than an hopefully GG asset for unty or unreal..

i made this in unity in about 8 months starting from a free fps template and after i modified it sto suit my needs integrating it with other assets.. and result is a way better than GG standard engine in my opinion..


please some mod fix my link url video since i really cannot managed to make it to work today

I suppose you are an unreal user since you desire for this but let me say that this type of asset could fit eventually better on unity than in unreal.. btw... this neverr will happen... so.... pointeless discussion..

Well, hello
In my opinion, this discussion leads to nowhere. GG does not become an x ​​star product. It is intended for beginners and shows a way to create a game you have developed yourself relatively easily. It is remarkable that the development will not be stopped. Interest and expectations have weakened especially recently. I hope that this will not be the case and that as long as I can I will find some fun and relaxation with the tool. I am firmly convinced that no one who can do nothing with GG will achieve anything with another engine. There are a few people here who have the ambition and stamina to pull off a game project. There are also a few people here who can get the technical things in the right direction. And the people in particular would normally have to leave this scene thanks to their skills. But, they're still here and fighting their way through. Some who shouted the loudest and asked for additional features are gone. I think the extras I asked for stalled development. Let the guys do their work there and limit yourself to troubleshooting. The capabilities of the engine can already be seen in some projects. Actually, one would have to bundle these forces for a showcase project that shows the strengths and weaknesses of GG. Maybe this way you can get more interest again.
You can also easily create top point & click adventures with the GG. (If you can't think of anything else)

Zigi, there have been plenty of valid reasons offered in this thread, you cannot simply disregard them as "ignorance and scepticism" because you don't agree with them personally.

If you really want a list of pros and cons, here's what I came up with, but bear in mind I have never used Unreal...

Pros
Developers might be able to utilise some of the additional tools in Unreal
Better graphics
Better optimisation and performance
Better physics and particle engines (correct me if wrong)
A new potential audience for TGC products

Cons
TGC would lose agency of their product - they would need to keep it updated to the latest spec of Unreal engine. If Epic decide to make a big change to Unreal, or add a new feature, TGC may be contractually obliged to make sure 'UnrealGG' worked with the latest version of Unreal. This may actually slow down the already glacial pace of development we get now. Not only that, but Epic could block TGC from developing certain functionalities at any time if they themselves had a vested interest in developing them themselves.
TGC would have to rewrite everything in blueprint, which would not only take months/years, but negate all the extensive LUA functionality that has gradually been added to GG over the last 7 years. Surely Unity is more natural fit, given it already supports LUA?
Game Guru games could no longer be released on Steam, a massive blow for indie developers. Obviously Steam has a lot of negatives but it also has a huge market share and various community features like streaming that Epic store doesn't currently have. It's a lot harder to find new indie games on Epic store as opposed to Steam - this is deliberate by Epic to keep the quality reasonably high - but it means indie developer would really struggle to reach as many people.
Many of the free assets included with Game Guru and the Mega DLC pack are - in my opinion - not of an acceptable quality for use in Unreal.
Thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of assets made for Game Guru and its DLC packs would need updating to work in Unreal's pipeline. That's not to mention the thousands of community-made assets on the TGC Store which are currently ready to use in GG as soon as they have been downloaded; all them would need updating too, lest they be discarded.
Just because 'UnrealGG' would allow Game Guru assets to work in Unreal, it doesn't mean they would work with other assets developed by third parties. It may still require significant work to get someone's door working with the UnrealGG door script, just as it would if you were trying to get that door into GG standalone now. So, do we really gain anything by moving to Unreal, apart from graphical potential?
Unreal is a complex engine designed for professional game creation with a frankly bewildering array of features. This is likely to be off-putting for hobbyists and n00bs just looking to pick up a relative simple engine and start toying with it. I've been 3D modelling for 15 years and I still use Anim8or, a much maligned under-featured free 3D modelling tool. Why have I not learned Blender yet? Because its UI scares me and I don't have 6 months and 1000 hours to devote to learning a new software, and all its unique foibles, from the ground-up.
The community itself would likely be killed off once and for all. How would we share our games if we can only release them on the Epic Store? Would TGC even be allowed to have its own website and forum?

For me, Unity would seem like a more natural fit as both are engines that purport to be LUA-supporting drag-and-drop engines with a focus on indie developers. But TGC would still have the same issues with lack of control of their product, and be beholden to Unity.

I do agree with you about VR though - total waste of time! I vaguely remember a thread some time ago about making Game Guru Windows 10 exclusive due to Microsoft ceasing support of Windows 7 at the end of this year. The decision was made not to do this because the Steam metrics showed Windows 10 users only make up a small proportion of users at the moment. And yet, here we are, wasting time developing a toolset that requires hardware almost none of us have. To me it smacks of desperation from TGC, just like the perma-discounts on Steam.

AE

@Avenging Eagle Thanks, really appreciate it, at least 1 person listened.
However, I need to disagree with your points.


TGC would have a new product and they would totally own it. Yes it would be based on Unreal, but they would be not forced to do anything. If Unreal going crazy one day with their license and prices, they just did confirm that, each version of Unreal engine comes with their own EULA. So if they ever go crazy, it would effect only the most recent version of the engine and everybody would be safe to stick with the old version of the engine without being effected by the new EULA.

Now I hear you saying, stick wiht the old engine? Whaaaat? Unreal 3 games looks and plays awesome even today. So if Unreal go crazy today, Unreal 4.24 games going to be stunning at least for an other 5 years from now and that would be plenty of time for us to figure out what are we going to do if Epic lost their pills and we really need to most up to date features.


Why would they? Unless you need the latest Unreal features, there is no harm sticking with a certain, stable version for some time.
Epic was also working hard on making it as simple as possible to upgrade engines version without breaking anything and they doing a great job so far. It is not as bad as Unity.


TGC was also rewrite GameGuru engine 3 times? Let's see. 1. At the beginning Lee decided to get to the bottom of the engine and rebuild line by line from bottom to top to debug and improve performance. 2. After they did rewrite the engine in C++ because the 1st attempt was not successful. 3. After they did upgrade the engine to a more recent DirectX version because the 2nd attempt was not successful. 4. After they built a new PBR engine to at least offer decent rendering with the poor performance. Now they are working on a new VR engine so at least they can claim the engine was built for the future where people play photorealistic VR games to explain the poor performance. So the engine was rewritten at least 3-4 times in 7 years.

I seriously doubt TGC would need to go through so much work ever to keep up to date with Unreal. Maybe few things need to be updated every 6-12 months to keep things going with the latest version but certainly not everything.


Not necessarily, they could also code everything in C++. All they need to do is provide some Blueprint functions for us to allow us manipulate few things using Blueprint but certainly they don't need to write everything in Blueprint.


You are free to publish your game anywhere.

Are you talking about the 5% royalty? Well, in order to pay royalty first you need to make money $3k to be exact in a quarter. If you did not make $3k in a quarter you don't need to pay anything.
Most people here also claim that they are making game for hobby only and they have no intention making money, so I really don't understand why would this be a problem then. If you make no money, you don't have to pay anything.


TGC could sell the pack here at TGC website, it doesn't need to be sold in the Epic Store. Unreal allow us to import staff from anywhere, it doesn't need to be an Epic Store item.


I don't know where did you get this from. You are free to share your game in any ways you want. You don't even need to register with Epic if you make a few bucks. You need to register with Epic only once you hit the $3k mark in a quarter, then legally you are obligated to pay the 5% royalty. But before that, Epic doesn't care who you are and what you do and how and where do you publish your game and how much money you make.

If you publish in the Epic Game Store, you don't need to pay royalty, Unreal is 100% free to publish in the Epic Game Store. That's it but otherwise you are free to share and publish your games anywhere.

Thank you for your reply.

Now who is taken off the shirt? As far as I know you don't represent TGC here.
Talking in name of a company that you are not part of....I can't find words, just take your shirt back on

Doesn't seem like that to me.

And no, I don't represent TGC, nor have I ever stated that I did. It was just an educated guess of the outcome as you are not the first who had this idea during GG's development.

It will never happen at the end of the day

Dave

Yes but it would be built on Unreal's architecture, so if Unreal decide to change that architecture, TGC would be forced to update their product or face becoming irrelevant, left behind. At the moment, TGC have complete control over the direction of development. I know one can argue they've not always/ever followed that direction effectively but the fact remains they have 100% control - this does at least allow them to make adjustments based on community feedback. I'd worry that by moving to Unreal, it would put an addition step in the way of getting things fixed, or new features implemented. Maybe I'm just being overly cautious.


I don't know Unreal at all, is it still possible to get hold of old versions of the engine? Or do you always download the latest version initially and then you can either keep it as is or upgrade as new versions come out? If the latter is true, it might mean new customers 2 or 3 years down the line wouldn't be able to use 'UnrealGG' because it only works with Unreal 4.24 and they can only download 4.32, for example.


Not entirely from the ground up though, surely? OK, the C++ one was I think, but at least they were still working with all the same media as version 1. The PBR upgrade was a rendering pipeline rewrite, not an entire rewrite; all the LUA logic stayed the same and only a handful of assets were converted to PBR-ready initially. Even though moving to Unreal would mean we could rely on Unreal's own renderer and physics engine, so no need to rewrite those, it would still be a huge amount of work to rewrite all the AI logic and rebuild/retexture all the assets to work in Unreal.


I didn't know that, that's good to know

It's certainly an interesting idea, and I can see benefits from an end-user point of view, but I don't see TGC gaining a lot from it. Sure, they get to affiliate themselves with a well-known, well-respected engine, but they would also lose a certain amount of creative control, and it would require not only a massive outlay of time and resource up front to do the conversion, but an ongoing resource continually checking compatibility.

My biggest concern would be what would happen in the interim while we waited? It's a hell of a lot of work and Game Guru is basically a one-man-band product, supplemented by a few freelancers and community members. Optimistically, it could take a year to do, likely more. What do we all do in the meantime? Sit twiddling our thumbs with a half-baked game engine that will no longer be supported? Learn Unreal engine I guess

AE

Well..... I did read most of this but then got bored so I'll just chuck in my 10p's worth. "I Like GG" its not perfect and I'm on a little break waiting for new things to be added. Would I want it to be a part of another engine ….erm no don't think so. Personally I just think that people just expect way too much, sorry but that's my opinion. But I will be honest in this I have thousands of hours in GG check my steam account think last check it was 3-4k hours for something that cost pocket money and I have enjoyed it. Yes I get frustrated sometimes but I get more so with the missis and kids !!! lol. I think sometimes Lee maybe tries to please everyone and in that makes the job of getting GG where it should be harder for himself (no offence m8 its a Kind quality) but at the end of the day GG is what it is an easy to use game engine and I have enjoyed every minute and I have met some fantastic people along my journey with it.
Happy New Year everyone

Game Guru has a well prepared release coming sometime in 2020. I think its something that will help define what the engine really is. Rather than the back and forth expectation of being some triple AAA competing engine and something used as an educational introductory tool to indie game development. I really feel GG is in the direct middle of all that and from what i saw in the new UI it may actually fall better in line with that. Even something that is seemingly a visual change would help define it better.

While VR and MP may not directly appeal to me, the on-going improvements have kept me around. I've been able to create things not possible in Unity for myself without spending years in C#. Each time I feel fed up because my ambitious ideas get the better of me... Preben and Lee roll out an improvement that makes each idea possible. Its a bitter-sweet battle but during this entire process I've learned a new programming language (LUA), I've learned how to 3D model, I have been able to work with 2D percentage positioning which has improved my mobile web development skills unrelated to gaming entirely. This whole journey has been nothing but rewarding in the end. Despite the headaches of uncertainty along the way.

I'm working on two projects right now I intent to see to the end. I'm very much enjoying working on them now that a few bug fixes have now made it possible to complete them.

We could talk a whole lot about our expectations we had for the engine during the name change period and a lot of us were quite upset about the direction change at the time too, but with so much years having past since then, its not something I'd dwell too much on.

Probably not considering a new VR engine is coming but it doesn't mean we can't share our thoughts and have a discussion.
TGC did consider this seriously in the past so they may going to consider again in the future and in my opinion the future is tomorrow after they release their new VR engine and realise, (whispering) nobody care....


Yes, I have the feeling this is what most people do. If people would read at least my replies, I would not need to repeat myself and explain the same thing over and over again.


I am not proposing a free upgrade here. Yes I ask for more but I also ready to pay more to TGC including the 5% royalty to Epic. Also what is too much? Having vehicles is too much? Destructible environment is way off this planet? Or better performance and cross platform export?
I can accept that people don't need all this and you are happy with GameGuru the way it is. What I don't understand is that why is everyone against having everything GameGuru has to offer and more without any explanation but that "I like GameGuru the way it is". The point is, everything you like about GameGuru would be there and more for those who need it.
And the nice thing about it I don't even ask TGC to do more, they actually need to do less. The only thing TGC need to do is build on top of a platform that do all the heavy lifting for all of us.


To be honest, I have never seen a company jumping around and change architecture so many times like TGC and release so many different products and engines. DarkBasic, 3DGameMaker, FreedomEngine, DarkGDK, DarkNET, AppGameKit, FPS Creator, GameGuru.
By switching to a 3rd party architecture and build on top, I think it would bring only stability for all of us and prevent TGC from jumping around so many times. In other word, it is very unlikely Epic would change the architecture drastically overnight. It would be much more reliable than TGC own architecture. I mean seriously by now, DarkBasic should be the most popular framework for programmers, FPS Creator should be one of the best AAA FPS game engines and the other products should never have existed in our life. TGC should have been developing 1 maximum 2 products during it entire existence. This is what everybody does, YoYoGames, Unity, Epic, Scirra..etc developing a single product for decades.
TGC is the only company that jumping around all the time and change architecture.

So taking away full control from TGC and build on top of 3rd party architecture would do only good actually in my opinion.
And again, if it would ever happen, TGC and we could choose to stick with the old version of the engine for a while.


Yes, there is a Launcher where you can download and install any engine version you want including old ones and you can manage also projects for each engine version and even upgrade projects from one version to an other.


This is exactly the point. I don't want to talk about this I would like to have a proper discussions, pros an cons but everybody keep talking about GameGuru was never meant to be AAA and you guys love GameGuru the way it is but that is not the point.
The point is, if there was an Unreal version, just imagine for a moment, there is one, why would you use the GameGuru version instead?


This is actually the first valid reason. You have an ongoing project that you have put lot of time in and you can not afford to start over in a different engine. It may going to take years to finish so you can not switch, you need to stick with GameGuru to finish your project for at least a couple more years. This is a very good point. Thanks for bringing this up.
The only question is now, how many of us is effected and have an ongoing serious project in the making which is not just an experiment but something you actually want to finish in GameGuru.

You don't have to repeat yourself. We have read your comments, and you have been told multiple times by multiple people why it won't work, but you just ignore them and repeat yourself.

Saying it multiple times won't make it true.

For example someone says most of our "LUA functionality would be lost because it would have to be converted to blueprints", and your response is "it wouldn't have to be converted to blueprints, it would be converted to C++ with hook ins to blueprints", which is a valid point right up until you realise that doing that would be 100x more work than the original suggestion of converting to blueprints.

You're not helping your argument by using this kind of broken logic.

Ultimately, i agree, GameGuru overlayed on an unreal or unity architecture may be a better thing, but the issue is it's not a simple thing to do, if GameGuru was in the early development stages i would say yeah great do it, but this far along, for them to do this they would literally have to start from scratch, very little apart from the models themselves could be reused, even the scripts would be written again from scratch because you can't just convert from LUA to C++ directly, even the shaders would need a rewrite to conform to the standard used by the new engine. It would simply be such a massive project that they would be better off starting again.

Judging by the number of projects I am giving Lua support to presently I'd say a lot more than you think!

Could you please help me and compile the list of the ones I am ignoring because seriously I lost track of them. The only ones I remember:

I love GameGuru the way it is
I don't need the features Unreal has to offer
I support TGC till the end
TGC would no longer own their product
TGC would need to constantly keep up to date with Unreal
Unreal could screw all us if they choose one day to change their EULA or their architecture
It is pointless, not going to happen anyway
need to rewrite everything in Blueprint
can not publish on Steam
would lose Lua support
Unreal cost money
I have an ongoing project and can't afford to switch engine

I have considered and replied to all of them and except the last two, all of them is invalid and I have already explained why but people keep repeat the same reasons.


Yes it would be a new product offer all the benefits of GameGuru. Lua is actually not a benefit, it is a nightmare, worst Lua engine ever. If you want a 3D Lua engines specifically because you love Lua, there are much better options out there and you have probably already switched and you are here for the community only. I also keep going back to my favourite game dev community every day even though I no longer using their engine, but I like it, support it and enjoying the community.
I think this is what happening here is well. Most people are against this idea simply because they like GameGuru the way it is, they having fun but they don't actually use it daily only once in a while and so they don't care and prefer to stay as is because it is fit their occasional needs. Anyway, Lua is not a valid reason either in my opinion and I just explained why.


No. It was my reply to that it would require to rewrite everything in Blueprint. No need to rewrite everything in Blueprint but Lua would be lost, yes we would have Unreal own Blueprint system instead which is a lot better and more powerful and also C++ for those who really want to dig deep down. But if you prefer Lua, you probably not using GameGuru anyway.


Yes but it would offer lots of benefits for all of us including TGC that I was already go through.

I understand TGC want to develop their own tech.
I understand it is good to have your own tech because you are in control
But, TGC is not good at making their own tech and they not good at taking control of their own tech. I'm not saying I am right. Only sharing my opinion and trying to have discussion something more in depth than "my logic is broken, I am drunk, GameGuru is good as is, forget it, won't happen, too much work" with no real reason why.
-Just No.
Why?
-No.
But why?
-I am happy.
But Wh...
-Already told you No, you ignoring my reply your logic is broken.

I mean if this is the only depths we can take this conversation then I can honestly understand why TGC stopped asking the community what direction they supposed to take their products. It is just pointless, I'm sorry but most of you is very closed minded, it is definitely hard to plan the future like this.

At least I tried to help not just waiting for them to surprise me with something...good? No, I think something functional would be a better word choice here. Something useful that take me further. But the problem is, most of you is happy with things the way they are, you guys don't want to go further, you are standing in one place and getting nowhere because you are not going anywhere just playing around. I think that is the real problem here.

Anyway, I wish you all a very happy new year this evening and much success whatever engine you are going to be using and I wish good luck to TGC they are going to need it.

And as i said, do you know how much work it would take to port all of our scripts to bueprints and c++? There are hundreds of scripts that took years to compile, it would take months and months of work for a team of coders to port them over for unreal, that is the point i am trying to make, it would not be financially sound for TGC to do that, it would cost them less in time and manpower to scrap gameguru altogether and write a new add-on for unreal.

Regardless of how good an idea it is, the bottom line is that TGC is a company that is there to make money, they will not make money by scrapping gameguru and starting again. No matter how many pro's or cons there are, it's not financially viable for them.

So you just lost all credibility with me here with one sentence.

There is only one Lua, it is an off the shelf component (one of many that make up GG) and is used by almost everyone nowadays due to how it ticks all the boxes compared to any other scripting language.

@ Zigi
Even if you don't believe it, I also want many of the things you mention, the difference between you and me, is that I want them developed by TGC and being part of Gameguru, and I'm also in no hurry.

If I wanted to use Unity / UE4 I would try to learn everything necessary and use all the necessary time, and also start from scratch, I do not know how long it would take to get it, what I do know is that I would not use Gameguru as a shortcut, or worse still as a simple means to an end.

Maybe your best option would be to converge to TGC to develop an "Easy game maker" plugin for Unity / UE4 from scratch.

You just catched and horsing on a single word from an entire paragraph and you ignore everything else I just wrote.
I was obviously talking about the game engine. If Lua is your preference there are better game engines that uses Lua and I was not talking about Lua the language itself but the way GameGuru exposes it internal components to Lua is a nightmare compared to other engines.

In my opinion.... I know, you disagree. It is fine. Don't worry.


The first thing TGC would ask, how many of us would be interested in an easy game maker based on Unreal? Yeah now that you mention it, maybe I should try it since this topic was so successful, so many of you would love to use Unreal XD

But this is my point, it is not your place to say. I just wanted to have a discussion with this community about if there was an Unreal version, would you be interested and if not why not and that sort of things and everyone immediately become a TGC employee and expert in economics and finance and the accountant of TGC in one person just to say "No".

Never mind. Thanks.

Summary (in case TGC ever consider to read this topic)

Subject: Release GameGuru as an addon or asset pack for Unreal Engine.
Question: Would you be interested?

Pros (in general not only compared to GameGuru):
-reliable and stable architecture
-each version of Unreal comes wit it own EULA (safe for long term plans)
-no need to develop the engine but game mechanics (less work for TGC)
-paid priority support available (if you ever need a fix ASAP you can pay Epic to make it a priority to avoid any delays)
-advanced rendering
-optimization (better performance)
-compress and encrypt assets in release build
-cross platform (VR and AR ready)
-open-source (C++) (anything broken you can fix it then contribute back to help everyone)
-no paid version (Unreal)
-no monthly subscription (Unreal)
-free with no limitations (Unreal)
-easy scripting (Blueprint)
-easy drag 'n drop workflow of GameGuru can be maintained in Unreal with Blueprint Assets
-no need to rewrite everything in Blueprint, can be also written in C++
-the Epic Store provide lots of very high quality assets including many free assets
Advanced features included out of the box in Unreal:
-destructible environment
-vehicle physics
-cloth, hear, liquid simulation
-particle physics (create realistic smoke and dust effects)
-advanced terrain and foliage editing tools.
-mesh manipulation and creation tools.
-3D UI Widgets (to create 3D terminals and console screens that we can interact with)
-integration with 3rd party tools and services like Mixamo, Megascans, Substance Painter, Steam, SpatialOS and Epic Online Service

Cons (based on user feedback in this topic):
-people with ongoing projects can not afford to switch to a new engine
-require to pay 5% royalty over $3k revenue in a quarter (it is not for TGC but for users, engine would cost nothing for TGC)
-would be not compatible with the current version of GameGuru
-lose Lua support

Other concerns raised by the community:
-would require to start from scratch
-would replace GameGuru that everyone love
-being based on a 3rd party engine and architecture means less control for TGC
-some GameGuru assets are not acceptable quality to be published in the Epic Store (no need to publish in Epic store)

Community opinion (based on feedback):
Most people seems to be not interested in Unreal, don't believe it is necessary or logical to build something like GameGuru on top of Unreal. Others are simply loyal to the direction GameGuru is going as a stand alone, independent product, prefer to stay this way and willing to support it whatever direction TGC is taking it.

Personal opinion:
I believe most people here are against this idea and won't support it primarily because they don't know Unreal, they have false information and they are worried it would be more complicated to use. Others may have put lot of time and effort in to their GG project and can not afford to start from scratch in a new engine and would prefer to see GG being developed further. Content creators may dislike the idea because they have released many assets for GameGuru and they can not afford to update their content for Unreal. The Epic Store would also mean more competitor for content creators and better quality assets to compete against meaning more work they need to put in to their assets to be competitive.
In my opinion it would be logical to make a product like GameGuru on top of Unreal for the same benefits GameGuru has to offer targeting the same audience and also for the benefits Unreal has to offer to target new audience and to fit commercial and professional use better. In my opinion GameGuru and Unreal combined could be a very powerful tool for beginners, students and even professionals.
I have replied to most concerns and cons, and shared more details in this topic, please read all my previous replies.

Since, a moderator decided to mark this topic as "Solved" without consulting with me first and the reply was marked as Answer by the moderator was not satisfying because contained lot of false information about Unreal, I decided it is better to write this summary and mark this as the Answer before a moderator close this topic and consider it solved without consulting with me.

Thank you to everyone who participated and shared your opinions.

Wow.... really too much free time.... LOL

happy new year mate... and btw unity or unreal really dont take too much time like you said to learn and manage them.. i can assure it..

yes, I'm using Unreal/Unity and Gameguru (more for child simple games). Loving Unreal, as to whether GG should be an asset pack for Unreal, hmmm, not sure, probably not, sounds like a lot of work to me or just a plain waste of time.
Happy New Year to all.

..............on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
.... all the way to the end of the road to NOWHERE !

UNIRD12B

You have this under pro, it is actually one of the biggest cons, everything would have to be rewritten in C++, 1) LUA is far superior to C++ for scripts, 2) everything would have to be rewritten, that would be a gigantic task that would just end up with a bunch of mediocre scripts because a lot of it can't be converted easily and will end up on the cutting room floor.



If gameguru became open source then TGC could not charge for it, and cannot legally not make money for it, that is a huge con for them.


Gameguru already has a terrain editor, which i pretty good, just needs more brushes. Unreal already has a terrain editor, which is also pretty good. Where is the pro for either side?


Total fluff, is neither in the pro or con category, it's in the don't need it, but would be nice category.


Is neither a pro nor a con because both already have that.


You have done the same in almost every post to us.

You asked for a list of pros and cons, I provided one. "Nowhere near satisfying"? My list doesn't have to satisfy you, it's a opinion piece. Your replies are emblematic of the post-truth world we live in now; you don't like what I write, so you disregard it as invalid excuses. That's like a kid sticking his fingers in his ears and going "La-la-la-la-la!", it drowns out all possibility for the reasoned debate you claim you want to have.

Your time would be better spent learning some of that "3D mathematics" you say you're struggling with. If you'd spent as much time doing a Brilliant.org course over the holidays as you have lambasting us for our concerns in this thread, you'd probably have written your own physics engine from scratch by now.

AE

i do agree with this statement though and that's not even a complete list... TGC seem to go through engines like there's no tomorrow... sure you could argue that they are "working" when they move on but then why are most of the "new" engines just rewrites or upgrades to the old engine? so lets not cause another engine rewrite here

I think you must have ignored the numerous people who stated that this undertaking would be extremely time consuming and is not desired in a time where GG is making a lot of strides to become a better project. Rather than scrapping all that for taking the odd year it would need to implement your idea.



You are not the arbitor of that. You wanted a discussion and it seems to me that is what you got and AE has thankfully taken the time to compile most points raised yet. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but that does not mean we as a community have to debate you on it. I am extremely disappointed that you dismiss so many of us as ignorant or TGC sycophants in your friendly discussion just because we seem to have different goals and views for the future of Game Guru. Your idea is just as valid as the opposing arguments to me.



Indeed.

Also Happy New Years, gang!

FWIW.
For me GG is trapped in the relationship that exists between TGC and the major content contributors on the store and on this forum.
It's a happy little band that does not want the status quo to change. Features and facilities that could easily be built into the engine never will be because it would cut the revenue stream of the store.
I think that changing GG as a whole into an asset pack for another developer's platform would be a valueless exercise - alienating all the people who really cannot be [please no swearing] to accquire skills in yet another, (more complex) game engine. It would be the death of the product.
I think it will continue to stagger along in just the same way it has done 'till now until Lee decides to retire.

Hey, let's go outside now and watch the real fireworks light up the sky in a great
show now, and have a great time coming in 2020!!

((Oh, you people out in the European/ Russian/ Indian/ African ETC! <>> Realms,
you probably already did, or are sitting there waiting for those fireworks,
as I type this!)) Holly Jolly NewYear.

Ok so we have established Unreal has many wonderful things ..
We have a Preben !!
The end..

This lol


Skimming through the thread I lost all will to live......... It is the reason I am no longer active on the forums, while I still read and appreciate the forums, constant fighting, bickering, going around in circles gets long in the tooth.....with a large divided and fractured community, the forums in large part lost the "fun".

Just to clear up things. The VR product having done some content for it, and actually having worked and build levels with the product it self, I can tell you it is an educational program foremost and is targeted at a young audience. It is neither a replacement for gameguru nor is it a direct competitor. While it shares functionality of gameguru, it omits a great deal of gameguru functionality.With the exception of VR, gameguru is VASTLY superior. It is being worked on in conjunction with a unnamed company and assistance from many partners. It is still pretty much NDA, and can't say any thing else or share any thing else.

If you are expecting the death of gameguru with this new software, you are in for a VERY rude awakening.It is a totally different market and audience.Did I mention it is more an educationally tool and a introduction into vr.

@ wizard of id.. are you alive..?? glad to read you on the forum ...happy new year mate..

Still very much alive, just been working behind the scenes on work I can neither showcase or talk about.

So basically you're saying the new VR is not actually a part of gameguru but a separate software being developed by the gameguru team? Taking time and money away from developing gameguru. Gee thanks TGC just when we start to think you are doing grand things for gameguru we find out you're actually using gameguru resources to develop yet another separate software to go along with the multiple other half finished apps you already have?

Odd ?
So are your saying is this pic is not GG at all and the Character Creator is for a totally different Product ?
Yet I thought Cyber has been using it for his game ?
I mean it shows the VR Buttons..

Seriously!
This is not the time to stay quiet @Lee Bamber

Don't forget you said you were only going to work on bugs, and therefore would not add any new features, all during 2019.
Is the NDA just a smoke screen or have you actually made any real advances with Game Guru.

Just let us know if the GG is dead in the water or not - so we know whether we can regain trust in TGC or need to move on....

OldFlak....

Don't worry I am done, please read the "Solution".


I meant the pros in "general" not only compared to GameGutu but in "general" we have those and it is good, losing nothing, better than Unity or esle..etc But I'm really done with this guess we have a more interesting topic for us XD


Wow, maybe you just told already too much. I was not expecting this. Unless we lost somewhere in translation the new VR engine is basically a fork of GameGuru a new product independent from GameGuru and VR is not coming to GameGuru at all?

To be honest it would not surprise me and this is exactly what I was talking about when I said TGC is the ony company I know jumping around all the time. I have never seen any other company releasing so many different products with so little resources and this is why I stopped using GameGuru. It is going slow because of small team and budget is one thing, but always shifting direction is totally unreliable and unpredictable. Maybe the new product is not a competitor but the resources are limited and there must be priorities which product get the resource. I guess we can all agree on that at least, we want all the resource to go in to GameGuru.

Wondering if they were releasing a version of GG for Unreal, would it be different? Probably it would be the same I guess, they would jump around on top of Unreal.

I have just realised this discussion was indeed totally pointless, being based on Unreal would not change anything at all XD.

I would hold fire before jumping the gun on this one ..
We have no actual facts and if its NDA we still wont get them yet but I am not yet convinced that pic above is not GG.

That is true but "not a competitor to GameGuru" and "exception of VR, gameguru is superior" is a bit alarming and I can totally imagine it is a new product, it would be a so typical to TGC to release it not as DLC or next version but as a completely new independent product.
But I agree. Let's not jump to conclusion. Can't wait to see what is this "VR engine" going to be like that TGC was talking about throughout 2019 in their news letters

Note I said It shares gameguru functionality.Will tell you 90% odd is entirely new assets for specific themed levels. The software is based on gameguru, same layout ect.Because it is VR software certain functionalities aren't there, 3rd person, top down ect, the VR aspects are different code. Quite a bit of fixes goes into both.So don't be fooled into thinking resources are exclusively been poured into the VR product alone.

More then that I am not sharing, saying, showing... period..... any thing you say or draw conclusion of, is speculation, Personally I am even not aware of all the facts.All I know is what I can see and what has been shared with me, not that I shared any major plots or twists.When I say superior you will have to wait and see.I am not inferring that the product is a lessor product, just referring that the target audience certain functionalities isn't needed for the product. In this regard gameguru is better.

From my own conclusion the product will be sold via partner website, so unlikely you will be seeing this sold via TGC directly nor will this be hitting steam, ZERO threat to gameguru. Pretty sure the partner is funding this project.They gave specific direction on themed levels ect.
Considering the partner is funding the project, whether you like it or not, It's money and the company comes first. You will just need to accept that from time to time, that you aren't the center of the universe.

I will say this there is examples of the software in action on youtube, and the website is live, so with a little searching you can find out for your self.

That goes without saying in my book as I have been there most of my working life.
Just hope we get more details soon ..

Look it's entirely unrelated to gameguru, and in large part indirectly inconsequential to gameguru and it's development. I would also say since it isn't competing with gameguru, TGC products isn't funding the project, we have no right to demand any thing nor is it any of our business to pry at what is happening in and around TGC.

There is NO obligation on TGC's part to release development updates or fixes every day, week, month or year.In honestly TGC is far too open and should take a much harder stance, and approach updates and fixes like valve approached half life.When it is good and ready.

You don't see either Unreal or unity users demand to know when the next update or fixes will be released. Quite heavily against the entitlement we as community seem to have, that NO other community has with regards to their software.

I am not interested in VR at all, but if TGC is interested in launching software in parallel, as it has done many times, which would mean more resources for TGC as a company, I honestly do not see where the problem is.

Does anyone sincerely believe that TGC could survive as a company, only with the income of Gameguru?

I think the time has come for Mr Lee to give the end of the year speech.

No and it does not … In fact it could probably still survive without GameGuru.
I think AppGameKit the Driving Theory Kit are the big sellers along with any other sideline projects TGC has going.
They probably have their fingers in many pies we are not aware of like any other business

Lee and New Year's speech! A great idea! Hopefully Lee is reading this post
But since we all here, allow me to offer my best for a Creative and Enjoyable 2020!
Cheers!

@WID
Well, I don't think it's that simple. Money was paid for a product that advertises creating a game in a relatively simple way. Now it is very difficult to finish a game with several levels without delving into the matter. A lot is related to the existing bugs, some things already worked, but were broken for some features, probably also, I have to agree with you because too much attention was paid to the customer. In the end, the company can act as you see fit, that's true. And yet I see TGC as having a duty to correct these errors. I think that will also happen, but with the new project, a front will emerge that will slow down this process.

Except it's not.

When we were told about it originally we were told that it was the gameguru team working on it, it is being worked on as a branch of the gameguru GitHub, and it was inferred that it was to be a feature of gameguru.

It now turns out, according to what has been let slip despite the NDA, that it is not part of gameguru but a separate app based on gameguru.

Which means they have redirected resources from gameguru to work on it, thus directly effecting us and the development of gameguru.

It's not even really the resources that are an issue for me, if this info that we've just been given is true, it's the subterfuge that annoys me, if they'd been up front to begin with I wouldn't be so annoyed.

I totally agree. TGC is a software company and they most likely do lots of contracted jobs for other companies too that we just don't know about. In-fact I guess we never meant to know about this educational VR project either.


Where did you get this from? They never told us anything like this but even if they did, they own no explanation to us. They do what needs to be done and it is not our business it is theirs.


No one told TGC is not correcting these errors. Just because they have more than 1 project, it doesn't mean they are ignoring the problems with GameGuru. They are working really hard for what $5? A lead C++ programming makes at least $70k or more, I think it is amazing what TGC have done while asking for so little.


You can't honestly expect Lee have time for anything like this. Forget it, it is not going to happen.