Hi Guys and girls ( if any )

First... Disclaimer... I'm not affiliated in any way with TGC, Nor Bolt-Action-Gaming, or anyone involved in this Book.
I don't get paid for this, or for any advertising . It's just my personal view, and I believe credit due where needed....

Being a proud owner of GG for about 2 years, I never really had much time going into the 3D game creating thing with GG.
I'm a AGK/AGKS user for sometime, and 99% of my Educational APPs/Games is done in AGK... ( the other 1% is my nap time hahaha
Lately the 3D thing interest me a lot, and I start learning the basic for creating Models, game making etc.... with fantastic tutorial videos by the community members.

I couldn't wait to get met hands on this book, and I bought it as soon as it become available....
WOW, Wow, Wow... congrats to Bolt Action Gaming for this wonderful book for our newbies.
You can see he spend hundreds of hours and effort i creating this book..
For any beginner like me... this is n must have... actually I think for every game guru user, this is a must have....

Well Done!!!! Bolt Action Gaming

Hmm, I already thought about buying it but it's really expensive to be honest.
I am gonna think about it. Did you buy the book or the download version?

yea i might buy it too...

I am really eager to see what I can learn form it..
It is so important to know the tool you use to unleash the full power of it!

but yea its quite expensive but sure worth the investment.

I was considering it, too. But, wow. That's one heck of a price. Even the digital version is around or over $50. The hardback on Amazon? $150. Yikes.

Wait a few weeks ,
most books start off full price to feel the market....
followed by discounts when sales slow......or dont take off.....
then followed by deep discounts to recoup whatever can be made.
Most video game design books seem to start out around $50 - $60
then before too long settle around $10 - $20 range.
So depending on the heat of your desire...and need for help...
Just like with a new video game,.,,,,,,same pattern.
you get to decide.



UNIRD12B

True. But even with new releases, I am used to the digital content being significantly less expensive than the print versions. The paperback is around $65. The digital version - $55. I've created books (interior and covers, both) and once you get this set up for print, it's pretty easy to go to digital. So, the cost of the digital version is normally significantly less because you don't have any print costs involved, which eat up a large chunk of the cost.

The cost of a book has very little to do with the production of it and a huge amount to do with content. Basically what it all comes down to is whether you think the content is worth the money!

Yes ... and no. Of course, the cost of just about anything is what the market will bear. I deal with creating print products (such as books) for customers a lot. So, I do have a little experience in this area. When you put together your book for print (usually using a program like Adobe InDesign or even Affinity Publisher) you can export out both your digital and print copies. The digital copies are ready for sale (i.e. there is no additional cost and, other than what someone like Amazon might take, the rest is profit). With any print material, not only does the publisher/distributor take their cut (like Amazon), but print costs for POD (Print On Demand) must be covered as well. The end result is that digital download versions of books often cost a heck of a lot less (no print costs) than their printed counterparts ... no matter the value of the content.

A novel that sells for $16 for a 6x9 print will go for anywhere from $1 to $5 for the digital version. Manuals and other types of similar books like them often will sell for $50 for print, but only $9 or $10 for the digital version. Again, the difference in price between the print and digital is because of costs. The raise in price between these types of books and novels is perceived value ($5 vs. $10).

This being the case, the book in question here is overpriced for the digital version. He is selling his digital version for only $10 less than the print version. It should be less than that, but that's just my opinion. As you said, it all depends on whether you think the content is worth it. The market will dictate if the creator of this book has priced it well enough.

The problem is, you can not always know if the content is worth the money before you buy the book, especially when the topic is special and there are no reviews.
Months ago I bought a book for 25 bucks only to find out it was a totally waste of money and because of the very special topic, I know it would be hard to resell it on eBay.
Don't know if this one would sell well on eBay. So I guess I'm going to wait for a better price...

Except in this case we know the author, can research his activity on the forum, in GameGuru in general, read what he's written on his blog, etc. So, while you may not know exactly what's in his book, you can do a decent job of discerning his level of competency with GameGuru and how well he can write.

well, am going to buy the book, firstly out of curiosity and secondly cos I can

what are you lot talking about, it' dead cheap only 27 quid for the e-book. well done BAG.

[edit-ok I see it says 48.59 for some odd reason-still I can get it cos am rich ha]

On the US Amazon site, the Kindle version is listed as being regularly $69.95, but currently discounted to $55.96. And this is the cheapest version available on Amazon (US). I haven't checked other sources, though.

@KRiwa


I bought the e-book version. Not a PDF (Disappointed about that), but you read it in ViralSource Software APP
I'm currently in China on contract, so difficult to get a paperback or hardcover shipped.

Price might be expensive, but I think it's worth the money.

I'll be really disgruntled if their is a price drop to $10-20$

I think the content/assets etc you receive with, is already more than half the price , worth every sent.
For me as a "newbie" to GG/lua/assets etc..., worth every penny ....

I think some of the hard edition value and demand comes from
the simple convenience of a book in your hand. Call me old-school
if you disagree and prefer digital, but that's the way I see it, you don't
have to flip a switch to browse and study a hard copy at your leisure.

Sure, sometimes the digital has things like links and a quick search... ya know,
but the hard should also provide that info to access online.

I think most would love the Hardback and the Digital as that's just handy whilst your on the PC
But unless your rich like BOTR I squander a lot of my money on food, clothes, bills etc

Yeah the price is ridiculously high.

Pretty sure the author doesn't have much control over the price.

Reliquia....

Yes, so it's pretty naff that you can't actually download the e-book as a pdf. Have to login evertime to browse it in a so called library. Anyhooo , haven't read enough to say whether it was worth the money or not yet, but it looks quite informative from what I've seen so far.
wonder if it covers bugs, things missing, standalone out of date and not working correctly etc etc

That appears to be true. This work does not appear to be self-published as there is a publisher. So, they are setting the prices.

So you cannot even convert it to your own .pdf then ?

Usually not. There are tools which can do that, but I think it is not legal.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

So did anyone actually got this book?
Is it worth buying?

In the ebook preview we can take a look at the table of content and it seems it is just demonstrate all the editor features like how to add entities, how to edit terrain, how to create character, buildings, edit paths, edit and change textures of meshes...etc

Wondering if the book get in to any advanced topics anywhere? It does mention some Math and Scripting in a small section of the table of content and some "advanced game and level design techniques and practices" and 3D modelling but not sure what is covered exactly. Is it any good, worth getting it to learn some useful level design practices and techniques, math and scripting, maybe how to make GG ready 3D models?
Or this book target people who completely new to game development and GameGuru is their first try?

Thanks.

yes, I have the book. I even get a mention in relation to heightmap import. shame that won't go any further.
but I would say just buy it when it comes down in price. the publisher's are taking the Michael (the mickey-English phrase) to be sure.
it definitely has some advanced stuff in it.

OR

Just work out GG for yourself, good luck

We have been doing that pretty much since day one

Not interested really, I was just wondering if the book offer any real value for the price or just a kids book.
Thanks.

to wonder is to buy the book....but on here most people want everything for free without paying a penny......some things can't be given on a plate.... teach ya self or pay to gain the knowledge.....

I much prefer just learning by doing, but I would like to have bought the book just to support BAG.

IIRC - might have been on Discord - BAG was disappointed in the price, but it was not his call to set it. It would be interesting to know how much he gets for each sale - but he is probably not allowed to say.

Had he released the book in PDF himself, I would have bought it no matter the price, just to support him.....

Reliquia....

Agreed I would want the Hardback if anything but for me right now its to much.
Perhaps a little later on

I bought the book (Use VitalSource) offline desktop reader, and for me as a beginner in GG, surely help alot.
With the Reader you can only print one page at a time.

And like reliquia and other mentioned. Its good to support BAG with this. There is not much documents available for GG, and If you read the books with examples and explanation, it took him a couple of months to get everything sorted and planned.

Okay, so all I was asking if the book cover any advanced topics that worth the price but people begin to talking about me figuring out GG for my self or buy the book and how much work it is to write a book and for that we should support the author yet nobody answered my questions.

BAG do have my respect for all the work he was putting in to this book. Once I did also want to write a book not for GG but an other engine but after 50 pages and about 10 example programs I felt exhausted. So I do have some idea how much work we are talking about.
I also agree on that content creators in general (not only BAG) deserve to be supported even if we personally have no use for the content they created but it is something we appreciate and I do appreciate this book.

To support a creator with $5-$10-$15 top $20 Sure, no problem. But $50 - $100+? It is too much I'm afraid I would really want something worth that amount of money.
Things like how to use the editor should be already documented for free not by BAG but by TGC and in-fact they have on Twitch and Youtube and it is also something you can figure out your self once start using GG. It seems to me 80% of the content in the book is covering the basics, documented with pictures maybe and example programs. It does not worth that much money. We are talking about a tool that was designed to be used by kids. End of story. If you can't figure this out without documentation and books, you have problems.

So the question that nobody really answered is that what is covered in the 20%?
Table of content mention things like Optimization, Level and Game design practices, 3D model import, Math, Scripting.
Which is sounds more interesting but considering 80% of the book is covering basics, wondering if the book only touch these topics too only on the surface.
Like Optimization is maybe just that to use low poly models, disable physics and cast shadow property for static and background entities, use static lights..etc
3D model import is maybe just that to download a GG ready asset from TGC Store or how to use a DLC
Level and Game design is maybe just how to place things in the editor, re-use same entity with rotating, scaling..etc.
Math, I have no idea what it could be, the whole point of GG is that you don't need any knowledge.
Scripting is maybe just that we can open and edit them in notepad, select them in properties and maybe write a basic script to create a light switch or something which is something but nothing worth that much money.
This is just a few quick guess what these topics might cover since nobody answered the question.

So if even that 20% cover basic things only like I mentioned, no it doesn't worth the money and in that case I'm wondering why not TGC was publishing this. Maybe because BAG was asking for too much money which he has all the rights to do so, even if the book cover the basics only it is awful lot of work, I agree no doubt but it doesn't worth the money he and the publisher asking for not even if the price drop 50%.
We are talking about the basics that indeed should be documented already and kudos to BAG for having this done, but again, for $50 no. GG cost $15.... I would personally consider max $10 to spend on this book if only the basics covered to "support" BAG for having this done for us and no I don't expect BAG to share it for free but maybe he should have been doing what I did and stop after 50 pages or publish digital version only with TGC for $10 because if the book cover basics only, it does not worth $50-$100+

Let's get real here, for that amount of money you can buy tons of Unity and Unreal learning materials that actually teach you real practical skills and concepts that you can apply anywhere including coding in C# and C++ which I would personally consider the two most important programming languages not only in the gaming industry but everywhere.

Anyway, kudos for BAG for having this done and thanks for all the replies.

Im not surprised … You said you were not really interested anyway.
And I cannot see any comments aimed at you.

I did not manage to go over very specific problems in game-making in GG over 2 years now and this is because there is no real manual, where I can look up things. I am not a fan of video-teaching if its not made really professionally with good sound and a real didactic structure.

Therefore, and because GG is HYSTERICALLY cheap, I will buy this book.[color=skyblue] I am just dissapointed, that an eBook is NOT included in any hardprinted version. This always annoys me. I want to read this as a real book and of course put it in my cloud to be able to read it everywhere...

But hey, this is the missing manual for me.! Thanx!

I agree if you buy the book you should really get access to the ebook as well
Probably not down to BAG though ..

Though I asked a very simple and straight question which is triggered some interesting replies in this topic.


No I'm not interested in GameGuru those times are over.
But when I've seen the announcement about the release of this book with that price tag, it got my attention for a moment and was make me wondering what is happening around here. Did I miss something maybe... and I asked a very simple and straight question but I got nothing but curved balls back including your reply.

I can see now I did not miss anything, everything is the same except we have a cool documentation now that cost 10 times more than the tool it is documenting and don't even include at least a discount code or something XD

Just say it guys, the book cover the basics only. But at least someone did cover them thanks to BAG. Was it hard?
Have fun folks!

Question: I'm wondering (because I read the weekly BAG news and updates),
whether the print edition comes with the promised weapons and other bonus
maps, scripts, etc on a disk (old school!) reminds me of PCWorld magazine.
Does it come with an upload link for these items or something?

Shoot, I could ask the same about the digital copy-- how are these bonus
items provided?

@GubbyBlips



BAG send me a download link for all bonus material. When I bought the e-book, the publisher havn't upload everything yet, but I assume by now all should be available.

Dunno about the hardcover version, if an old school CD/DVD will be included

All Bonus material will also be on the TGC store to buy, if you not interested in the book (If I understand correctly from some posts)

Old school … God I remember when they were the biggest advance in media tech !!
I paid £5 each for what we called " silvers " Cheap unbranded blanks

Arrived today:



Cheers

Best prices for the ebook are on amazon.it and amazon.fr, about 36 euros.
Unfortunately you have to be in the right country to buy it...

right here on mamazon.it (italy) the price is 36€ ..and i'm gonig to purchase it..this seems to be an honest and right price

i was goging to purchase but i would to aks to who ahas the book yet how much the book go deep inside gg and in lua programming and if are there real examples is it when can use...

The price has always bothered me, but also the format. A physical book to learn a game engine is such a 90's idea, it's like having a handwritten recipe to explain how to assemble a Lego set. You need to see it! You might even need to play it! I came so close a few months back to setting up a new YouTube channel dedicated to educating people about how to use GameGuru, but I figured it might wee all over Michael's book and affect his sales and I don't want that; the man's a saint for working as long as he did on it. I just think the idea of publishing it as physical book has been a massive financial miscalculation.

AE

I absolutely hate the modern fad for video tuition, give me a book any day.

I'll have RTFM on my gravestone!

Eww! I gotta disagree here. I deeply despise video tutorials.
Most of the time I find myself looking for specific information that I might just find well if I where able to "ctrl & f" through a written tutorial/guide. If not, I can always read three times faster than it takes your average youtube creator to stammer through a tutorial video.

If I am learning how to use a new engine and I want to know something specific about its material editor, I take a written document over having to watch someone explain the whole blasting thing to me all over from the ground up if all I wanted was something specific. Just an example.

So far I have never used 3d software where I had to "learn the basics" from a video but I have often browsed through a manual for specific short cuts or that one hidden tool/feature. I dearly hope written documentation will be complemented by video tutorials, not replaced.



-Wolf

I find YouTube tutorials invaluable. However, I do like a hard copy to carry around so I have ordered my copy of the book. It does seem rather pricey and I think it will become outdated quite quickly. TBH, I am surprised it exists because the market must be very marginal.

This is true, but then - and I know I'm being very arrogant here - but I'm not your average YouTube creator. I do ramble a bit, but I think there's merit in seeing someone perform an action rather than just reading about it. I genuinely think there is an audience for this sort of content, if it were tightly packaged enough.

AE

Oh, there absolutely is, I wasn't knocking down the whole concept objectively, I was more sharing a personal grievance

On a semi related topic: I am not a visual learner. If I can read the manual to a machine, I can operate it. If you show me how its done live I'll probably stand in front of it right the next day being completely oblivious as to what to do with it.



-Wolf

Depends how well its written …
I recently read a tutorial on new launcher software and just couldn't get it right I then watched a video and saw where I went wrong , The explanation was in the book but awkwardly written and missed one slight part out that made all the difference.
Swings and Roundabouts ?

One problem I have about the video's I've tried to use is that the person making the video is simply recording what they are used to doing and when you do that it is really easy to press keys or do mouse actions without explaining what you are doing. This makes it really frustrating when trying to replicate what you are seeing on screen and the result is completely different for you because you weren't holding down the right mouse button whilst pressing the A key or some such.

If instead you have to write down the actions it makes you stop and think about it more so you are less likely to miss out explanations for things.

Plus a written description is usually a way smaller download and can be easily stored away for future reference rather than having to link to myriad utube channels that may or may not suddenly disappear on you.

I will get in trouble if I talk honestly about tgc tutorial videos... lol
Yeah, of course the content style on either media front is critical, but I have and
probably would learn better from a book-- again if presented properly.
I can squint at a page that isn't moving, but sometimes squinting at a screen
that is moving around is a bigger challenge.

As a for example, when I started with GG there was already a bunch of Lee videos covering various scripting examples each of which was supposed to be 30 minutes but usually ran over.

I enjoyed watching them the first time but later on when I suddenly found the need to do something I had seen in one of the videos I first had the issue of trying to figure out which video it was in (you can't really search a video!) and then the right royal pita of having to fast forward through many minutes of video to find the exact point where he showed the script I was interested in. (only to realise most of the time that, no it was in a different one)

A very inefficient way of doing things in my mind.