Product Chat / [LOCKED] [SOLVED] When Is The Next Update

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synchromesh
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Posted: 30th May 2019 23:45
Quote: " now they are giving it away"

It was only a weekend promotion.
They did the same with GameGuru last month. Im going to get it as soon as I have some spare funds ..
Wish I got the first beta at the real knocked down price now
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 31st May 2019 01:36 Edited at: 31st May 2019 01:38
The whole point of Vulkan is that it will run on pretty much whatever hardware you have, unlike DX where the graphics card has to support it otherwise .. nada .. with Vulkan the API scales depending on the hardware available to it, so if the application is written correctly it should function on the lowliest pos up to the latest and greatest!
Having said that if you really want all the bells and whistles from Vulkan atm it is best to have a top end AMD card as they support pretty much all the fancy stuff out of the box but NVidia cards are catching up fast, although even if you have a last-gen NVidia card Vulkan will still use it to the max it can.
The Talos Principle is entirely Vulkan now so if you have any doubts about your hardware download that and give it a go (it is a very good game btw)!
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 31st May 2019 10:09
yes the silence is quite deafening. Even a hint at what might be going on would be the polite thing to do. But i guess TGC have there reasons, the full release of AGK-S is very close so might be concentrating on that.
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Posted: 31st May 2019 20:14 Edited at: 13th Jun 2019 06:31
As of May 9th Lee mentioned they are looking to get someone on to the issue board. Which is something I think a lot of us would appreciate. Hopefully, its not entirely donation reliant.

Quote: " We are also planning to put an expert freelancer on the case with the issues board too so watch this space for an assault on your bug reports as we finally put your donations to good use."

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ShN33Ky
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Posted: 1st Jun 2019 20:34
I would imagine there's important security issues if we're to get a stand alone MP system in the next build !!! Really crossing my fingers this update is coming soon but always appreciate TGC's efforts to put a polish on anything substantial ! So worth the wait but feeling lost in the twilight zone....
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Posted: 1st Jun 2019 22:59 Edited at: 1st Jun 2019 23:02
Quote: "feeling lost in the twilight zone"

Sorry couldnt resist ..



The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..

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MXS
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2019 02:51
lol..
more than what meets the eye.Welcome to SciFi Summer

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ShN33Ky
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2019 16:46
LMAO ….we are about to enter another dimension! Better bring some toilet paper just in case!!!
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2019 20:09
It is self-destructive for TGC to become so unresponsive to community concerns and threads like this. I remember being very enthused and engaged in all of the activities when Lee ran his daily developer blog for FPSC:Reloaded. It was always exciting to see what was being worked on, ideas and visions, roadblocks and hurdles, anticipated releases. All of the backers were kept in the loop about each and every bit of progress or setback. Eventually this transformed into a weekly or bi-weekly news update and then not much at all. Now I check in maybe 1-2 times a month just to see how things are going but don't find a lot of activity. The other game engines I've explored have much more frequent blog updates and information to keep its users informed and interested.
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2019 20:37 Edited at: 5th Jun 2019 19:10
I hear ya xcept. I certainly miss the golden era of GG's progress. Not sure we will get those days back. Maybe some spurts here and there but nothing directly aimed for the current community. I believe we are now seeing develops in areas that are geared more for the outside community for new customers.

Otherwise, we'd have seen some more regular bug fixing going on from higher up. I almost feel like im committing a crime around here when I ask when bugs/issues will be tackled... so i think i'll take a rest on that for now.
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PixelF
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2019 22:20
I'm afraid Game Guru is pretty much dead in terms of updates. Even if we were to get a big update right now, Game Guru has fallen too far behind for it to make much of a difference.

The idea of an "Easy" game maker was unique and innovative a few years ago. But now there are tons of Assets for Unity that make game development almost as easy as FPSC or GG. Game Guru missed its chance to take the lead in this niche market a long time ago.
m2design
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2019 23:54
Been a member since 2010, and I think I have been to this dance many times. Just when I get a partner I get used too.. TGC wants to introduce me to a new dance partner. My previous partner no longer gets updated apparel or make-up.

Just the way it is I guess...


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synchromesh
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2019 01:13
Quote: "Even if we were to get a big update right now, Game Guru has fallen too far behind for it to make much of a difference."

Well I wouldn't put my money on that I have heard at least once a year since I have been here
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2019 14:27
granada
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2019 15:06
Would have been great if that effort had been used to fix existing bugs

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OldFlak
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2019 15:16
Lol - seriously?

Wonder how many GG users have VR devices - Gobsmacked really.

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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2019 15:37 Edited at: 27th Jul 2019 14:45
Quote: "Pssst...

Look at what landed on Github a few hours ago.
https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/commit/243fbd39d2085a9265a67810a232c481150c69ed
"


Teabone's point still stands. That's not 6 months of promised bug fixes. We still have potato frames a second and instability yet more features are being added. If you look through the commit changes they consist of VR and multiplayer updates. A key aspect for VR to work properly is performance.

This is the classic TGC move by pulling the wool over our eyes: "We'll fix the core issues we promise but first look at this shiny object so we can try to distract you from what is really wrong with our product."

Please don't say I'm being negative, I know I am but the fact is this has happened countless times and these moves are putting this product at jeopardy. Sure these updates provide a resurgence in user activity but that's just over a short period. Then people catch on to the usual tactics that TGC pull off and they move on. In the long run this is damaging to their name and long term users of TGC products eventually leave.

Lee's (nearly) complete lack of communication doesn't provide reassurance either. In fact the introduction of VR and Multiplayer seems like a cash grab for those potential customers that know nothing of GG.

The most mind boggling question to me is, why is there such hesitation to fix the core issues of GG?
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2019 20:38
Please do not be offended by me speaking about people being negative.
I myself am also quite negative about the lack of bug fixes and the rush job of doing those PBR textures for instance without any eye for quality and the consumer who buys these packs.
Lee must be cautious to not lose this community base which has meant so much to TGC and added so much value to GG over the past few years.
The above message was an answer to GG being dead, i doubt Lee would do all that work on GG if he would move on to a new engine to replace GG.

If people were offended then i offer my apologies, that was not my intention.
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 07:49 Edited at: 5th Jun 2019 21:47
Can someone explain to me where we are supposed to have a general conversion about this topic? Is it here? Or by email? Cause its sure not Youtube:

"Comments about the next GameGuru update are discouraged as there are better places to put that information across"



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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 12:24 Edited at: 27th Jul 2019 14:46
Quote: " Please do not be offended by me speaking about people being negative. "


No ways. No offense was taken at all. I like that you're positive about things and trying to reinforce that. My statement wasn't directed at you primarily (even though I did quote what you wrote) Oopsie Sorry if it came across that way.
OldFlak
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 12:42
I'm guessing this thread will soon be locked

Quote: "The most mind boggling question to me is, why is there such hesitation to fix the core issues of GG?"

Maybe the simple answer is that they are not fixable?

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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 13:11
Quote: "Maybe the simple answer is that they are not fixable? "

1) The thing is, that a lot of bugs are there, because GG works how it work. If you want to fix a bug, you will maybe destroy a lot of created maps from some community members.
I do not want to hear the outcry of some community members if we break all their maps.
2) Some bugs are so deep in the source code, that there is no simple fix. So you need to check a lot of stuff, which is very time consuming.
3) Lee will not fix any bugs, if I understand it correctly. This is now up to other developers So Lee can concentrate on the shiny things
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 16:28
yes , unfortunately, have to be careful fixing bugs as a fix can have knock on affect with other functionality of the application causing possible further bugs. Vigourous testing is required. I do this day in day out in my normal day to day job, it's what I do and get paid for. Am looking at some at the moment to see what are priority and fixable. To start with , I always try to look at the possible simpler ones and prioritise. Always better to fix a lot of small bugs than to spend hours/days trying to fix one complicated bug. Then of course any bugs fixed need to be tested. Finding the cause of a bug in large amount of code can be a little difficult to track down, especially if you don't know the code that well, you have to almost get into the mind of the original programmer. If there are plenty of comments then it helps (sometimes). I think a couple of my friends can help but like most people they have other committments, but let's see what we can do.
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devlin
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 16:40
I cant help thinking that,
the github link is a plug for AGK-S more than GG,
sorry but i cant see vr and multiplayer being any help in fixing the engine problems,
and see it as just a plug for easy integration for levels in to AGK-S . for vr and multiplayer.
not advantageous to GG at all.


https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/commit/243fbd39d2085a9265a67810a232c481150c69ed
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Teabone
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 17:05
Like i said before the VR and Multiplayer upgrades were probably contracted by an outside source and that is the only reason why GG is getting a nudge at all.
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 17:31 Edited at: 4th Jun 2019 17:51
eh? double posting??
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 17:47
"and see it as just a plug for easy integration for levels in to AGK-S . for vr and multiplayer."

Not to be rude, but-- how? They aren't the same software, and you have to script
everything in AGK (in a different language also.)
Not that easy integration isn't worth supporting, but...

I'm hearing everything people are saying (I hear ya dudes-- I dig it!)
I'm not a FPS fan, nor do I have any VR devices. But let's say that 2019
is known as the year of VR and Mutiplayer actually coming alive in GG.
Hmmm... now that sounds pretty good. How can we people in this forum
benefit from that? Well, we as users can because if it's sharable technology, we can
obviously promote our own games as having those stable features. (Hoping not buggy!)
Good for them! Do you make games just for yourself to play? I don't even play games!

I ask very little at this point.
But yeah, maybe a few bug fixes before this was inserted, might be wise.
I hope the standalones are stable, memory issues are tackled, lighting might
be nice, and well ya know how bout just a wee little menu helper- please!
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Argent Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 17:53
VR and multiplayer is great. No doubt. But it won't do a bit of good when lighting is essentially broken, PBR is not fully where it needs to be, level load times are so darned slow, and the issues people are having with memory and what not. Just because people will be able to view a game through a set of goggles on their heads instead of a screen, and control the game via VR controllers instead of a mouse and keyboard, will not make the current issues go away. In fact, it may make them stand out even more.

I'm sorry, but it makes little sense to me to add these amazing features when the previous amazing features (like lighting) don't work properly. Fix the essentials first before adding more bells and whistles.
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Earthling45
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 19:54
Quote: "1) The thing is, that a lot of bugs are there, because GG works how it work. If you want to fix a bug, you will maybe destroy a lot of created maps from some community members.
I do not want to hear the outcry of some community members if we break all their maps.
2) Some bugs are so deep in the source code, that there is no simple fix. So you need to check a lot of stuff, which is very time consuming.
3) Lee will not fix any bugs, if I understand it correctly. This is now up to other developers So Lee can concentrate on the shiny things"


Who are the developers? Isn't the development of GG in the hands of Lee?
I think that the effort should be to solve these bugs, map breaking or not, we can always work with a version of GG which does not yet have fixes which potentially breaks a map, so that is not an issue.
Even if they are so deep in the source code and are time consuming, in the long run it is going to pay off for TGC, it is not time wasted.
Having a solid base to add those shiny things to without them breaking other stuff should be the goal in my view.
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 20:54 Edited at: 4th Jun 2019 20:55
I wrote a big long post...then realised it could pretty much be distilled into the following issues:

1) Game Guru has never had a predefined development path, it relied too heavily on the community-led voting polls, resulting in a constant need to add new features to appease the community and a lack of due diligence and iterative improvements to existing ones.

2) Lee obviously likes developing new features a lot more than troubleshooting existing ones. It's frustrating but you can't blame him, after all, he's been scouring over some of that code for nearly two decades now.

3) The decentralisation of The Game Creators' management hurts the momentum of the company. Rick and Lee don't even live in the same country; Rick is busy with his projects in Macclesfield while Lee codes long into the night on the Welsh coast. It must be very lonely and demotivating.

4) As a company director, there's no one above Lee telling him he has to fix bugs - no shareholders, no trustees, certainly not this community. Instead, he is relying on the support of part-time volunteers and this elusive "expert freelancer", hence the glacially slow progress with bug fixes.

5) Having been consistently savaged on YouTube and Steam, Game Guru's reputation now lies in tatters. TGC has to sell it cheap to make any sales, but they also have to put effort into reinventing their product. The VR and multiplayer implementations are obviously attempts to make Game Guru appeal to a broader (and some may say more casual) demographic than the archetypal amateur FPS game developer.

6) The lack of communication is because Lee knows he will get inundated with abuse and negativity if he sets foot in these boards. Why waste time justifying your business decisions when you could be developing? Or making amateurish YouTube tutorials? Or, hell, I don't know, walking the dog!? Literally anything is preferable to facing your critics.

AE
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 21:31 Edited at: 4th Jun 2019 21:39
Quote: "GG is following the path of its predecessors - sad, but obvious to me."


Quote: "I cant help thinking that,
the github link is a plug for AGK-S more than GG,"


Quote: "This is the classic TGC move by pulling the wool over our eyes:"


Quote: "Judging by threads like this one, any concerns\speculation mean zilch to the top brass."


I remember saying most of this quite a while back at a time when many still felt a shred of hope that
Game Guru would end up being a great lil engine ( I Still feel it COULD ! )
and now more new projects come along for Lee ( AGK Studio etc..). and the , in the details work of what is needed for game Guru to progress is cast mostly aside.

I for one , have decided that my personal way of dealing with this will be to no longer invest in
any new engine or concept that TGC come up with no matter "How New and Amazing" it seems,

UNTIL , they make clearly evident that the pattern of starting and promoting "The Latest And Greatest " to the detriment of "Projects In Progress " is effectively remedied by making actual progress on the older projects.

I WANT it to work , We have all invested time , money , and heart in to all this , hopefully , not to just watch it " Fade Away " slowly or abruptly like so many other TGC projects.

Hope does spring eternal but dont keep peeing on my leg and telling me its raining.
( Hopefully that's NOT considered cursing or swearing...)

UNIRD12B
Let\'s actually make something happen with this one !
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Posted: 4th Jun 2019 21:49
Again-- agreed @ above concerns. Load times-- outlandish!
But if Lee and TGC feel like their current decision is best for GG...
well, that's what's going down-- let's hope the best for that.
Yes, it's hard to test often when load times become 5-6+ minutes...
My first attempt at a GG game was a genuine effort to put in videos,
pictures, trigger points, media and story-line, then make a custom menu.

Whew... this is a simple engine, but for just one noob person to game making,
and testing load times in excess of 6 minutes... not to mention missing items in
standalone... mixed up trigger points, Wheee whew! So now I am on here often,
but pretty much I'm just scripting... trying to figure out something new...
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Belidos
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 00:09
Quote: "no shareholders, "


Actually there are, the guys who backed GameGuru when it failed the kickstart as reloaded. He has a yearly meeting with them from what i understand.

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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 01:11
I kinda agree with AE here and as you probably know I also kinda welcome the MP idea as for VR dunno don't own a headset to comment. I do though think Lee must read this lot and think omg do I actually have to answer that lot! ( I wouldn't I'd walk the dog ) Ok not all of us wanted multiplayer but it is an extra thing that lots of people like and always are complaining about not having the ability to put out as an exe for me and I'm sure lots more the fun part of GG isn't to sell games as most of us don't but to share them with family and a few m8's just to trash around our own maps and have a good laugh and I think with Lee adding this feature we can do that. bugs yeah maybe but if its done between these groups they will probably laugh and find it funny instead of this constant drone of this and that doesn't work. OK maybe there might be those who might have a bash at releasing sommat out to the masses (fair play to you guys) at least you will have the option to do so. Imagine one of Wolf's or Ivan's Maps on multiplayer! It'd rock truly. I just think that Lee's getting a bit of a bad rap here as I think that the new addition monitory or not are a good thing, and I'm personally looking forward to having something different to play with
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 01:26
I think (just fix the bugs ) please , the longer you leave it and add more features the longer the list will grow

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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 04:30
Belidos wrote: "He has a yearly meeting with them from what i understand."


A yearly meeting is something I haven't heard about. I had a big chunk of US dollars that I invested up front. Of course, the meetings would have taken place near where Lee lives, so, I Wouldnt have been able to attend. This seems like it was ages ago. Before he dropped FPSC like a hot potato. I was a little peeved when he did that because I also spent a whole year creating a role-playing mod for FPSC. There at first, I thought he would keep FPSC going while he worked on FPSC-reloaded. There were a lot of people that got juked in that mess. Especially the model creators that had all those great model packs. I felt betrayed so I don't know how bad they felt but I can imagine.
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xCept
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 04:32
Quote: "Like i said before the VR and Multiplayer upgrades were probably contracted by an outside source and that is the only reason why GG is getting a nudge at all."


Lee suggested on May 9 that he was personally " putting much time and coding into a non-Steam multiplayer system." This and his commits indicate he was the lead of both, as far as I can tell.

To me these two features are sort of déjà vu as their prior incarnations were introduced years ago and somewhat out-of-the-blue. Many in the community disagreed with the decision to invest resources into those components when so much of the engine still needed work. It adds another layer of framework/API that will have to be consistently maintained for future compatibility. That is what has always been a bad trait with TGC products in my opinion, features and libraries get implemented but then often get neglected and soon become incompatible. The original VR feature was not maintained after the original Rift DK, and many libraries in AGK were often outdated or only partially implemented with no clear idea on when they would be updated again.
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Flatlander
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 04:43
xCept wrote: "Lee suggested on May 9 that he was personally " putting much time and coding into a non-Steam multiplayer system." "


I have no use for VR. However, a non-Steam multiplayer system intrigues me. I may not exactly know what he is planning, however. I do know that VR is starting to be a big thing on the East and West coasts and it is starting to be the talk among software engineers and such.
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Corno_1
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 09:18
Quote: "I think (just fix the bugs ) please , the longer you leave it and add more features the longer the list will grow "

It will always grow. Thats how coding works
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OldFlak
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 09:35 Edited at: 5th Jun 2019 09:45
And the harder it gets to remove existing bugs with out breaking existing code along with the shiny new code stacked on top of it.

Surely it is a counter productive process

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granada
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 10:30
Quote: "It will always grow. Thats how coding works "


Especially when no one is working on them

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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 10:32
Quote: "5) Having been consistently savaged on YouTube and Steam, Game Guru's reputation now lies in tatters. TGC has to sell it cheap to make any sales, but they also have to put effort into reinventing their product. The VR and multiplayer implementations are obviously attempts to make Game Guru appeal to a broader (and some may say more casual) demographic than the archetypal amateur FPS game developer.

6) The lack of communication is because Lee knows he will get inundated with abuse and negativity if he sets foot in these boards. Why waste time justifying your business decisions when you could be developing? Or making amateurish YouTube tutorials? Or, hell, I don't know, walking the dog!? Literally anything is preferable to facing your critics."


I'm going to disagree again.
It was advertised as an easy game maker wich meant that the user did not need coding skills.
But it was very basic and even placing a door was quite a challenge because often it did not work or if you were lucky the door would vanise when opened.
Grass sometimes hanging in the air, water like acid, A.I very basic and easy to kill, characters have holes in them, memory stacking which meant that certainly systems with only 2 gb vid memory would encounter a huge performance hit and a system crash when at level 3 or 4 due to being out of memory.
Of course you are going to get bad reviews, hence there has been a thread about 'the easy game maker' which really should be advertized as being an early access and in development until the base is solid.

It is all due to TGC and its ways, in many threads and also here in this thread it is obvious that this is how TGC works, create a tool and add shiny stuff to it in order to make the tool appeal to other potential consumers.
Hence many are wary and anticipating the end of GG.

It has meant that i've stopped with purchasing any more packs, it is of no use if TGC is not serious about their products and won't work towards a solid base by tackling these bugs and problems caused by new shiny implementations.
Let's first see how it goes this year.

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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 11:01
Not interested about vr and multiplayer, therefore I can live without.
Meantime Sir Lee could fix the main bug: the lack of information.
When GG jump to hlsl this breaked many maps for me, anyway I'm willing to living with, if this mean fix some or all the GG bugs.
We need a very stable version of GG and some sort of standalone's windows to setup our games; then and only then maybe I would dare to make/publish some GG game.

As I always say, the higher updates comes with santa.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 11:50 Edited at: 5th Jun 2019 12:23
started a "BugFixes_BOTR_June2019" branch on GitHub-let's see what can be done, spare time permitting.....fixed and pushed 1 bug already #492 on Github issues tracker just to test as it's been a while, nice easy spelling mistake in Global.Lua, raised by Teabone originally. will get the easy ones out of the way , then onto the harder ones.
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Earthling45
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 15:37
If i had the skills, i'd jump in and help out with fixing bugs!
But that does not take away that TGC should change their approach and be serious about delivering a solid product.
Like i wrote in a previous reply, TGC should embrace this community for all the help and added value they have received so far, which is quite a lot.
Personally i would not dare to write that Lee gets inundated with abuse and negativity when he sets foot in these boards.
So far i've seen only a few already banned members which were crossing the line, for the greater part it has been constructive and even in defence of GG, just look at the forum on steam where members help out and react to critisism.

So, now i'm going back to being positive again.^^
Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 16:01
Entity - Bunny Character's Feet in Ground #110 - issue now fixed - down to FPE(s) (also raised by Teabone).
See Github link https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues/110

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granada
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 16:20
Nice of you to jump in and help Bored of the Rings, thanks

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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 16:26 Edited at: 5th Jun 2019 16:26
Thanks Dave

For the Cartoon Rabbit, if you want to scale down the model, I would do it in a modelling package. I used Fragmotion and used the transform UI to scale down on the Y axis a little with "uniform" ticked/checked then exported. Unfortunately, I was unable to scale down the entity in GameGuru using the scale transformation gizmo...oh dear
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Teabone
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 17:15 Edited at: 5th Jun 2019 21:52
Thanks very much BOR for those fixes

Would be great to get a small fixer in between before the VR / Multiplayer.
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Corno_1
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Posted: 5th Jun 2019 23:45 Edited at: 5th Jun 2019 23:49
Quote: "Entity - Bunny Character's Feet in Ground #110 - issue now fixed - down to FPE(s) (also raised by Teabone). "

You didn´t fixed it. You just removed a feature.

My try to fix it in my personal build is:
in M-Lua in the method "lua_loop_allentities"
Go to this part:

and add
PositionObject(t.entityelement[t.e].obj, t.entityelement[t.e].x, t.entityelement[t.e].y, t.entityelement[t.e].z);
in front of the
t.entityelement[t.e].y = ObjectPositionY ( t.entityelement[t.e].obj );
so it looks like this:

It is still not perfect, but at least it fixed the bug instead of removing it.
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