Product Chat / Latest GameGuru Public Preview - New A.I

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lorddweeb
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Posted: 5th Oct 2018 17:24
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Thanks guys I will check that when I get a chance and report back.
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DVader
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Posted: 6th Oct 2018 19:38
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Tried the demo and have to say I got murdered. I need the crosshair to have any chance lol. Is there an easy way to get it? I checked the setup but couldn't see anything.
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 6th Oct 2018 20:30
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Check if the cross hair file in the weapons folder is there and not all black.
Then check the gunspec file.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 02:25
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Check out the latest update to the AI from your early feedback. I had the bright idea to throw your thoughts to smallg, and he responded magnificently, check out the new standalone at the top of this thread called "Standalone V2 - SmallG Improvements".
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 11:23 Edited at: 7th Oct 2018 11:29
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Im dead in about 10 seconds
Need more health so I can see what there up to for a good report …
I did notice 2 characters running in a circle in sync and shooting as I came into line of sight .. almost a Ballet
But again im dead before I can record or investigate..

Its not all about how long you can survive surely .. Im trying to look for Head Bashing on walls or any other issues
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Belidos
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 11:30 Edited at: 7th Oct 2018 11:36
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Quote: "Check out the latest update to the AI from your early feedback. I had the bright idea to throw your thoughts to smallg, and he responded magnificently, check out the new standalone at the top of this thread called "Standalone V2 - SmallG Improvements"."


Worst experience ever. The moment i loaded in i was completely surrounded, unable to even move, and when i died (in under 3 seconds) i re spawned with them all surrounding me again. I didn't even have a chance to see any of the improvements, unless instant kill zerging is the improvement.

Some bugs i have found, after the first player re spawn the AI next to me became invincible, almost a whole clip into the crowd surrounding me and not one dead, and after the second re spawn the counter showed i had ammo but the weapon just clicked as if it was out.

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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 12:16 Edited at: 7th Oct 2018 14:51
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Like other users, I still found this incredibly difficult and died quickly every time without killing more than one or two enemies. Have you guys ever made a game before? There's this little thing called balancing...

In the end, I had to go in and edit the gunspec files to get a level that was playable. I increased the damage of the AKM, turned on auto reload, and reduced the damage of the Colt 1911. Ideally you would tinker around with both the weapon damage and HP of the enemies until you get a result that is challenging but beatable.

This was the result:


So, despite my initial frustration at the balancing, the AI itself worked well and I definitely think it's an improvement over previous AI. I'd like to see a test level that features fewer enemies and some following waypoints so I can see how they behave when the lose sight of me.

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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 13:11
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Just a thought.
maybe one need to work out the percentage of the player's body part if possible that is out in the open and from that work out and accuracy percentage for the AI , so that they also some times miss if they shoot at the player.

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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 13:43 Edited at: 7th Oct 2018 13:43
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Personally I would say 5 to 6 characters max spread out well and 3000 health so we can really see them in action and get chance to note any issues … But that's just me
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 13:46
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Ran it twice and put it in the bin, i will wait until there is something i can test . not even a chance to reload let alone see whats going on

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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 14:01
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In reality I would have surrendered before firing a shot
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 14:21
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In reality I'd be back home repairing tanks or something.
Been there, done that, got all the T-Shirts!
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Corno_1
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 18:20
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Maybe a bigger area and less enemies would be better to show improvements. A good AI show his potential in a small group, not in lemming fights!
I did not see any improvements in this testmap, whatever smallg did is maybe great, but I die as soon as I need to reload, so I have no chance to see it.
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smallg
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 18:55
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i think Lee just wanted some feedback to work on next week, perhaps checking if anything major is broken in the changes.
but to answer some of the comments... the core AI is still the same as the previous release, all i did was fix a few bugs and add some code to make them think about moving out of your cross-hairs... so if you're dying faster that is actually a good thing, means the AI is working more like it's intended to do - this is more of a design flaw in the level than anything to do with "bad" AI and the level itself has not changed since the first release - i'm sure you will be able to make better/fairer scenarios in your own games compared to Lee's little test map here

Quote: "Some bugs i have found, after the first player re spawn the AI next to me became invincible, almost a whole clip into the crowd surrounding me and not one dead, and after the second re spawn the counter showed i had ammo but the weapon just clicked as if it was out."

not seen the AI become invincible but yes, rapid fire weapons jam - this is a feature, press reload to un-jam it... though reloading in this map is never a good idea

Quote: "I did notice 2 characters running in a circle in sync and shooting as I came into line of sight .. almost a Ballet "

yep, characters not knowing what to do when reaching their intended destination is a bug - it was in the original too, one of the first things i noticed and reported but also one of the few bugs i was unable to find a (quick) fix for - it is on the list though

Quote: "maybe one need to work out the percentage of the player's body part if possible that is out in the open and from that work out and accuracy percentage for the AI , so that they also some times miss if they shoot at the player. "

i think running around is about the only thing that makes the AI miss? accuracy is editable on the gun stats but i have no idea if it actually effects the AI, i'll have to test it (it does not)... but it would be nice to get access to AI accuracy in lua, yep, but not currently possible.

Quote: "and some following waypoints"

they do now have the idle / relaxed animations while patrolling at least (as requested above)
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reyandekcire
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 20:09 Edited at: 7th Oct 2018 21:24
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Quote: "I'd like to see a test level that features fewer enemies and some following waypoints so I can see how they behave when the lose sight of me. "


Here is a small video of a small test level with only 3 ennemies

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 22:31
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Does everyone agree with 6 enemies and 3000 health for the next test map? I completely agree you need more health and time to assess the AI in action. As smallg stated, the layout of the level did not change, just the improvements to the AI to make the enemies more deadly. Naturally (and kind of the whole point), game balancing is down to your choice of enemy placements, weapon choices, strengths, settings and the thousand other little ingredients that create that rare quality which is great game-play. If anyone wants to have a stab at modifying this test level to make it more balanced, I have attached it here.
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granada
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 22:37
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The improvements are great Lee ,just need breathing time to see them

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Earthling45
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 22:51
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I've tried it and was dead quite quikly.

But i'm thinking this is certainly an improvement, how will it be when they loose track of you? that is a good question but i like how they either seek cover or come straight at you.
I have not seen them turning or rolling like in V1.
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Posted: 7th Oct 2018 22:53
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In fact, Lee if possible, i think it is, i'm going to copy the A.I files and make another level.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 8th Oct 2018 00:44 Edited at: 8th Oct 2018 00:47
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The reason I want the health at least 3000 is that I want them to come up and shoot me so i can see if they retreat when I shoot back … Or if they are ganging up to much .. All these things and more without being killed in an instant ... I know they can kick my butt already

The improvement in AI are massive dont get me wrong .. Its all heading on the right track
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synchromesh
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Posted: 8th Oct 2018 01:40 Edited at: 8th Oct 2018 02:10
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This is more like it …
5 enemy and I set their view distances slightly different for more realistic responses ( as you would in a real game )
Upped my health ( for testing reasons ) and changed to a weapon I was more comfortable with
For me the AI worked really well and it felt I had breathing space to plan my moves and its more fun
I attached my map if anyone wants to give it a try .. Its not meant to be difficult its so you can try and out smart them and watch the responses.. Beware though they are getting clever

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Earthling45
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Posted: 8th Oct 2018 02:23
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I was thinking of making a few levels in order to test different kinds of interaction with the A.I with a first level for melee.
Does anyone else have a problem with motionblur?
I have to set bloom to 0 in order to have normal behavior in testgame when moving around.

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DVader
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Posted: 8th Oct 2018 11:23
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Quote: "Check if the cross hair file in the weapons folder is there and not all black.
Then check the gunspec file."

I can't load the cross-hair image as it's probably encoded and have looked through the gunspec file and see nothing that is obvious. It looks like a standalone is pretty set in stone, unless the gunspec flag needed is not super obvious. I've also downloaded the public preview version, but am unsure if it is using the new AI after a few test runs on a hastily made map. They certainly didn't appear any different than before there. Perhaps I need the beta version?

Regarding the cross-hair issue. I think it would be better if it defaulted to a cross-hair myself. That, or an option in editor to change it. Most people are not going to want to start editing gunspec files and/or changing images to get the cross-hair working. On the other hand if people want to disable it, then editing the files makes more sense. I've mentioned this before I know, but feel most people simply will want the cross-hair by default. In fact for a standalone as the demo here shows, an option in the settings to enable disable cross-hairs would be much better overall.
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DVader
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Posted: 8th Oct 2018 11:59 Edited at: 8th Oct 2018 12:00
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Tried the new demo and I got murdered again. It's basically a firing line and so you just get killed super fast as all those soldiers at the back fire madly at you on mass. Once you have died, it's even worse, as you tend to be put back right where the AI has now run to and get killed even faster. Compounding this is the fact your ammo does not reset and you tend to die, re-spawn and then die again as your gun clicks uselessly at the NPC now 2 feet away.

Just too difficult to really see the AI in action and make any kind of judgement.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 8th Oct 2018 12:58 Edited at: 8th Oct 2018 13:02
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Quote: "Tried the new demo and I got murdered again. "

Try Mine .. This one will give you chance to think, Plan your next move and try to outsmart them along with seeing their reactions. At least I hope anyway but keep looking for safe positions don't stay put
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 8th Oct 2018 12:59
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Just downloaded the second test map.
The two weapons enhanced/akm and enhanced/mk19t do not have crosshair files in the folders.
The modern/colt1911 does have the crosshair file.

So I would just copy any crosshair file to those weapons folders if you want crosshairs for this test map.
and you will see them right off.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 9th Oct 2018 11:07
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Just for reference, the weapons described should not have any crosshairs, they are in keeping with modern shooters where you use the features of the gun for various degrees of aiming. Just ask ErrantAI and he will read you the riot act as to why this is important. Bottom line is that if you can just put your dot over the soldier and shoot, the player has an unfair advantage. That said, the enemies are pretty good at accuracy too I did like the idea of calculating the players 'exposure' value based on whether they are moving, running, ducking and how much of them is visible to the enemy when they shoot.

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DVader
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Posted: 10th Oct 2018 10:49
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Well, I think it should be player preference. I know if I purchased a shooter game of any kind and there was no option for a crosshair. I'd be requesting a refund shortly after. I'm not buying a game to be realistic, just to be fun.
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Posted: 10th Oct 2018 14:15
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Quote: "Well, I think it should be player preference. I know if I purchased a shooter game of any kind and there was no option for a crosshair. I'd be requesting a refund shortly after. I'm not buying a game to be realistic, just to be fun."


This.

Or give us tracer bullets
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Posted: 10th Oct 2018 15:42 Edited at: 10th Oct 2018 15:54
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Quote: "Well, I think it should be player preference."


Agreed. But I believe crosshairs in general in GG are still customizable right?

They were back when I was playing with some FPSC weapons in GG:


LUA commands to disable or enable crosshairs per weapon would be cool. A lot of the online FPS games have cross hairs as bonus upgrades to weapons.
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DVader
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Posted: 10th Oct 2018 16:39
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Quote: "Agreed. But I believe crosshairs in general in GG are still customizable right?"

I imagine it is from the posts above, but I haven't really dabbled myself as they were always visible and never thought they needed replacing. I just think that by default they should be on, at least if the weapon has one. But as there seems to be a preference for this sort of thing apparently, an option in editor would be far more user friendly than copying images and editing gunspec files for most people. This demo for instance has put me off with the lack of cross-hairs, especially as there are so many ai and so little health. So one run per version, lol.

It's probably already possible to do in lua if you replace em with your own sprite that you can hide You could animate as well :p That would be down the road though and for basic tests and stuff I want cross-hairs enabled
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smallg
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Posted: 10th Oct 2018 19:50
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laser sights and such are normally optional upgrades for modern games and generally have replaced the old fashioned cross hairs - but i agree with it being an optional setting, give the developer the final say.
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Posted: 10th Oct 2018 19:57
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Quote: "but i agree with it being an optional setting, give the developer the final say."

Better still in the game menu … Give the player the option
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reyandekcire
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Posted: 10th Oct 2018 21:18
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Are AI bots supposed to reload their weapon at some time ? I've seen in the AI script that they are supposed to do so (at least there is a function with appropriate Reload animation in the script) but as far as I can see they don't...
I've made a litte test with an ennemy AI armed with an AKM from Enhanced Weapon Pack ( damage per hit = 40) and stood right in front of him with 4.000 Health Points ( basicaly 100 bulets hits before I get killed ). AI hitted me with almost each bullet fired in burst mode ( what a sharpshooter are AI bots) without reloading a single time (I have stopped the test when my Health Points were reduced to 960 out of 4.000, that is a minimun of 76 rounds with 100% accuracy fired from a 30+1 bullets magazine without relaoding a single time).
New AI script added a lot of realism in AI behaviour but I guess we can make a step further if AI were actually reloading their weapon when running out of amo.
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Posted: 10th Oct 2018 21:32 Edited at: 10th Oct 2018 21:36
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Quote: "New AI script added a lot of realism in AI behaviour but I guess we can make a step further if AI were actually reloading their weapon when running out of amo."

I have seen this in the panther scripts and yes it does enhance the the experience.
If Lee has added the anim to the fpe than he could be planning to add it for the AI
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 11th Oct 2018 10:38
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Can someone add the 'property in weapons to activate a stock cross-hair' in the issues tracker, so we don't lose this idea, I agree some users will definitely want control of this. ErrantAI will probably despair

The AI bot reloading was something I had in many moons ago but took it out when I realized you could have them waste their shots, count them and come out when I knew they were out of bullets and likely reloading, an easy kill. Any way we could combat this scenario so players don't take advantage too much.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 11th Oct 2018 10:42 Edited at: 11th Oct 2018 10:44
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Quote: "ErrantAI will probably despair "

Oh Bless
J/K
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DVader
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Posted: 11th Oct 2018 18:58
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I think Dirty Harry would agree counting gunshots in a gunfight, would be something most people wouldn't do ;p
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Posted: 12th Oct 2018 04:41
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Posted: 12th Oct 2018 20:06
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Hope with the advances of AI - You will solve this problem.(Issues #376)
(Standalone Save & Load Characters Glow bug #376)
This is a bad bug And the game will ruin.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 12th Oct 2018 21:46
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Is anyone seeing the "Characters Glow bug" issue in the AI standalone I am sending out, I cannot see it at my end?
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synchromesh
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 00:10 Edited at: 13th Oct 2018 00:13
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Havent seen that at all … but I did read it on GitHub ..
@SHAHIN3D
Whats your specs, system etc
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 00:40
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I have added a new V3 which tones down the aggression of the level, thanks to some editing by Synchromesh, so you can spend more time looking at the A.I and less time getting murdered. Naturally, your own levels will be finely balanced by your good selves, so the purpose of these levels is to demonstrate the A.I so you can provide feedback. I think we can say though that you now have the ability to create enemies that will take any player apart should you wish to tip the scales in their favor.
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 00:49
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Regarding the Glowing … Im getting something but not as apparent as SHAHIN3D
Trying to record it now … not sure how well it will come across on the video though
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synchromesh
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 01:18
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@Lee
Ok somethings going on … Depending on angle characters do get lighter but not as bad for me as SHAHIN3D
However this may give you a better idea close up … when reloading the save funny things happen ..
Hope perhaps this gives you some clue as to what might be happening

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 01:51
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@synchromesh : Is the graphics mode option resetting? Try going back into the menu and setting graphics to HIGH again, it does look like some kind of visual setting change, as though shadows and bloom are being shifted.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 02:02
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Ok I just tried the same thing with all GFX modes .
The settings seem to stay as they should for each save and reload on either Low, Medium and High .
Low does exactly the same thing but not as apparent as medium or high ?
Really strange ?
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OldFlak
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 07:58 Edited at: 13th Oct 2018 09:56
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I've not tested the demo level, but have been working on menu system for my own game.

My game uses custom drones, that currently use the sci-fi drones script, when loading a saved game the drones are invisible but still active.

I will report further on this issue on git-hub when I've tested this using stock drones, but figured the invisibility may be relevant here.

Using current beta.

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Corno_1
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 09:02 Edited at: 13th Oct 2018 09:15
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@Lee
Here is a testmap that helped me to replicate this glow bug.
What you need to do is:
1) Load level
2) start testgame
3) die from the AI
4) You will spawn on the startpoint, then press esc to end testmode
5) You will see a glow even in the mapeditor. Some character react more, some less to the glow
6) Start testgame to see ingame character glow

I try to fix it, but have no idea what caused this.

Also in this testmap, you can see how the thirdperson character is invisible after he died. This is related to an decal in the level. Remove it to only see the glow bug.

Two bugs in one testmap
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synchromesh
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Posted: 13th Oct 2018 10:20 Edited at: 13th Oct 2018 10:25
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I can see the decal bug .. it seems to hollow out half the player for me ..
Remove it and its ok again as you say … But not seeing the glow ?
I am however seeing the glitching that my video shows if I zoom in to the character once back in the editor.
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