"I'm sure there will still be many buildings and architectural elements still being produced externally."

You say "still", where exactly are these now? I have a huge library of GG assets from the store packs and converted from FPSC and frankly they don't come anywhere close in quality to what I can knock up in the Unreal engine in a couple of minutes!

The reason I don't use the U4 engine is not down to visual quality, it is more down to the mechanics of actually making a GAME, to make a functioning game in U4 is mind bogglingly complicated, constructing a jaw droopingly beautiful living room otoh is simplicity itself (as long as you don't mind waiting a few hours for the lighting to build!)

I have similar problems with all the other competitor engines and if all these so called 3d modellers out there would actually get together and create modular building components with the sort of quality I can get in U4 for GG then I would willingly spend a few hard-earneds for them but if they are out there I haven't managed to find them!

This problem is not restricted to buildings btw, I have some really nifty AI scripts for animals, i.e. herding/flocking behaviour, predator/prey behaviour even cooperative hunting behaviour (would be cool for a wolf pack) but I can't find any decent animal characters to apply them too. The best I've found so far is some dodgy looking sheep models that have only 4 different animations to play with. (I have to admit though that applying the herding scripts to the unarmed civilian character is absolutely hilarious)

If instead of whinging all the time the community actually buckled down and created some quality assets which could compete with the best the opposition has to offer GG could really take off and maybe even produce a commercial game or two.

On a realistic note .....The GG modellers probably don't need or will use the EBE very much ... If I could create amazing things in blender etc I would still probably continue that way especially from a selling on the store point of view ..

Its a construction kit ( That looks more powerful then the old one previewed for Reloaded ) That's what I'm expecting in the beta .
It has a similar style to the older FPS Creator for upper / lower levels placement and its supposed to be easy.
As this will be the first release the door is still open for expansion,

We have a Character Creator for users who cannot create Characters, rig and texture in max for example ...
Its not a full fledged character creator like fuse but its still handy and very usable and does the job quite well

You just answered your own question in your next sentence.



I do, as well, along with my own(which, quite frankly, suck), as well as many I've acquired over the years from many other sources, but they are being made, and you know it, because you just said so.



The modular components are being made by some, but not by all. Again, I have many. If you want UE4 quality assets in GG, perhaps you should contact the creators of the UE4 asset and see if they would allow you to use them in another engine. If they are too expensive (and I realize they can be pricey, I own a few), then you've simply discovered the difference between a 50 cent coffee table and a 10 dollar one. I use UE4 as well. It's not mind boggling, it just requires more time than one person can typically do if they hold a full time day (or night) job. And yes, I know, there is always that one guy, but most of us are not him.

There was nothing in my comment regarding the quality of the assets. Some are not very good, some are actually fantastic. Lighting certainly helps in making them look exceptional.

Hi man

It would be interesting to see a video of how it works EBE .
As an interior designer (with over 15 years of experience) I can suggest some tool to inspire you .
I have seen and tried countless programs

https://extensions.sketchup.com/en/content/buildedge-pro
http://www.protoolsforunity3d.com/probuilder/
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/56380
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/51485
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/7292


I hope to be of help.
I love game guru and I want to see it grow

The day I create something that gets 100% of the vote is the day satan will be skating to work! Let's get ourselves a first version of the EBE out the door and then look at tools which might extend the capabilities to create all manner of shapes. I still believe that using the parent-child grid snapping of regular static entities will be a great way to improve the final visual of the structures, so they look less blocky and more believable. Working on polygon reduction today, and will be looking at the AI obstacle and occlusion aspects too so characters can run around the rooms and corridors without issue. Thanks for the continued feedback, it's the only way we can create something great!

Lol

Well don't worry about that too much it's very likely I will not like the first version even a subsequent version(s). But you can count on me to send you a lengthily report , when it's out . You will need to the replace the teacup with some whiskey

But that said, what you have in mind for EBE, means FPSC segments will eventually be a must for quick assembly indoor levels, I don't think it's the intention of EBE to be a full scale indoor level creator. I don't know how other people feel, but I would definitely want to see indoor levels getting some TLC sooner or later.

LOOOLLL

For creating simple and FAST indoor levels fpsc classic is the best. there is nothing out there that compares to it. That is why i bought entity welder from BOTR. I use classic to build indoor levels for guru and for other engines. I personally do not want anything more complicated then that. If i want to spend minutes roughing out a level i use classic. If i want to spend hours or days i use a modeling program.

Does this count as a little Devil on Skates

I just saw a horned red dude on a skateboard EBE is looking fine Lee it'll be a nice asset to have, being able to match your building styles to the game you are designing/building....Gets the thumbs up from me

Looking great! Us non-modellers will get to make our games unique!

EBE is exactly what i need !!! I have needed to create buildings the way i want but could not. I am not a 3d artist nor a game engine programmer. I have been following and generating ideas since FPS Creator . What i have been developing needs indoor as well as out door areas. Building appearance as well as internal area need to be created for project. With basic items i can assemble my own, this is great! Blender is a great program but does it need to be that complex to create basic items for games? GamesGuru gives me a way to buy assets that i want to use, and create outdoor areas that i need, What was needed was a way to create buildings inside and out!

Not sot sure about that.



3com

hello

To me the best way to see if the ebe is good, would be to ask lee to make say the taj mahal with as much detail as he can get. Or maybe a cathedral from France,Italy, or a Gothic church. Something that incorporates a lot of basic features.

Its a construction ..... features capable of creating that is called a Model program ...
It doesn't mean its not any good ..... It just means your not getting Blender 2

hello
I didn't mean good or bad more like what meets the needs of every one. If it can make the buildings from my previous statement then it should be more than enough I would think. Most buildings don't require that much detail so if we can make something like i previously said then we should be good.

Apparently it will allow you to add detail in the form of additional "parts" as you see fit. I think it's looking good for a first go. Again, we should wait to get our hands on it and see what we can do with it. There are many people around here who think "outside the box" and I'm sure they will come up with some amazing things. Hopefully they will share their secrets with us when the time comes!

Let's wait and see what we can do with it. But remember, you get a easy bulding editor and not an indoor level creator. This is not the same in my opinion, so if you voted for it, but want the other thing, you should read more carefully

Don´t hope for too much and you does not get disappointed

shivers say:


Jerry say:


So I already have many work done, can just use EBE for geometric and my parts for details.






So I can get a most lowpoly mesh.

3com

Nice work, 3com, absolutely beautiful!

I didn't have time to watch the full video and read all the comments in this topic, so I just leave my general view here regarding EBE:

I think it is going in to the right direction but at the moment it feels way too limited. I don't know what have been told, planned and promised but I believe the Building Editor should work somewhat similar to the Segment system in FPSC Classic and don't need to reinvent the wheel, I don't expect a full featured 3D modeler in GameGuru, but it need to be more flexible.

In my opinion, similar to segments but further developed:

When we choose floor and wall we should be able to choose from different walls and floors with different details for each like a broke here a dent there with ledges, bends, curves, half height wall,..etc and able to also choose the inside and outside texture for each shape so we can design also interior of the building and the exterior.

The small box shown in the video to add more detail such as a sill and stairs should be not the only shape in the editor, we should have more shapes to choose from so we could make nice detailed, curved buildings and interiors.

To take it a bit further, each wall and floor may could be a sort of prefab built entirely from these smaller shapes like the box in the video that we can use to add more details but using more varied shapes not only box. This way, after placing a wall or floor, we could select any part of the floor, wall, building and apply any texture on the selected part only and may even make it destructible. On explosion, the prefab = walls / floors could fall to pieces.

When we choose the doors and windows, we should be able to choose from all kind of doors and windows just like with the old FPSC Segment system. Add normal doors, automatic doors, sliding doors..etc and able to change their texture maybe.

Apart from the "prefab" and destructible floors and walls I don't think I'm asking too much and this would not require to reinvent the wheel but develop a bit further and bring together the old Segment and the current EBE system. If the prefab and destructible floors and walls will be added, it a plus.

the problem is with a segment system like in FPSC is the waist of resources a system like that incurs with unseen faces and doubled up polygons, yes its convenient and easy but it comes at a cost , take a model output from segment welder and load it up in blender, see all that waist!!, Lees new ebe system addresses that problem but again comes at a cost but one worth paying, the best of both worlds would be the EBE as it is and low poly trim items sized correctly and aligned to the EBE grid, I'm pretty anxious to get my hands on the thing lol

Quick rant

1... The problem with the Segment system is your back to square one !!

2... Everyone would have the same Segments .... or you would have to buy the segment packs like before .. Again that everyone else may purchase ..
That's no different than buying the module packs on the store that to be honest have a lot more variety, They are not limited to Just corners and walls.

3... However .... The down side .... If 10 people buy a particular module pack then you know your game wont be unique ... So unless you plan to re-texture which is no easy task or its a default dungeon of some kind that you can decorate to give it a different look then its really for your own pleasure ...

4... Ok now the EBE .... You can construct buildings ... and it does have the lower level ... then you can select second level in the same way the classic segment system worked .....16 different textures for each construction .. ( I have seen less on a UV map for a highly detailed building )

5... Then Lets not forget interiors ... you can create a complete indoor level easily with the EBE ( why Is everyone thinking buildings )
I could probably recreate my Bunker in Die Glocker bigger and better very easily .. Dungeons, interior city buildings etc ..

6... Mix and match .... Store items are good .... so many animated doors already on the store .... just create your doorway the size to fit ... and that's just a couple ideas ... My head is full of plans for this so called limited EBE

Rant over ... Mod hat back on

Quick rant
1... The problem with the Segment system is your back to square one !!
Which square is one, because there is nothing wrong with segments
2.. Everyone would have the same Segments .... or you would have to buy the segment packs like before .. Again that everyone else may purchase ..
That's no different than buying the module packs on the store that to be honest have a lot more variety, They are not limited to Just corners and walls.
If you remember correctly lots of people including my self actually made building assets/ corridors and what not so it's not exclusive to Rooms.


3... However .... The down side .... If 10 people buy a particular module pack then you know your game wont be unique ... So unless you plan to re-texture which is no easy task or its a default dungeon of some kind that you can decorate to give it a different look then its really for your own pleasure ...Lots easier to replace textures then the current system

4... Ok now the EBE .... You can construct buildings ... and it does have the lower level ... then you can select second level in the same way the classic segment system worked .....16 different textures for each construction .. ( I have seen less on a UV map for a highly detailed building )
Having 16 textures on atlas isn't going to magically make you building better, in fact 16 textures is pointless if you don't have the ability to paint any thing worth while or detail.So no 16 textures doesn't make some thing automatically better. The current atlas I am working with has 15 textures on it, close enough to 16 textures add the floor and you have 16 textures.I should add that different level selection isn't any different with entities the gameguru editor allows you to render per level as well.Considering most of the time I keep floors a separate entity so that I can add more floor textures variations and lets not forget the entities made to snap with other entities as well as these entities being exclusive to the particular pack exceeds 16 textures easily.


5... Then Lets not forget interiors ... you can create a complete indoor level easily with the EBE ( why Is everyone thinking buildings )
I could probably recreate my Bunker in Die Glocker bigger and better very easily .. Dungeons, interior city buildings etc ..

I am not sure, you create your bunker with EBE, then I will use my bunker, https://www.tgcstore.net/pack/10676, and will still rival any thing you can create with EBE.Secondly creating an entire level is impractical with EBE.While I likely spend two or so weeks creating the content, it pays for it self in that I can construct full levels even quicker than EBE can, with premade assets.

6... Mix and match .... Store items are good .... so many animated doors already on the store .... just create your doorway the size to fit ... and that's just a couple ideas ... My head is full of plans for this so called limited EBE Which is why there is a scale function, as well as a feature of the voting list for CSG punches.

So yes I am willing to put my good name on the line here Create an entire level with just the EBE that rivals any thing I can cook up and to be fair, I will only use content that is already on the store.It's nothing rude, nor is it personal your so called EBE has limitations you just aren't aware of them yet.


Stuff created with the segment system (some or most pics is dead, it's just to prove a point you can do more with the segment system then rooms)
https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/210320?page=2

https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/205044?page=2

https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/182460

https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/198105

Now while EBE will allows importing of your own mesh EBE files, it remains to be seen what the limitation are, well it has already be mentioned by lee, forgot now some thing like 200 units around there.Using prebuild entities have zero limitations as to size,height and length the only limitation you will run into is polygons, it's not like there isn't some way around it should you slice up a building you could have 2 or 3 parts or multi layer them and remain with in the polygon limit.

Most people know I have been using gameguru since day 1, also used FPSC classic since just after EA was released, I have practically spend that entire 10 odd years creating structures of various kinds to be used exclusively in the segment editor, 10 odd tunnel packs, ranging from sewers, spaces bases to underground bunkers and even a warehouse, gameguru is no different, created buildings for gameguru it self, the warehouse level and the great escape is all content I made, of course there is all the store content.But every 1 doesn't have that content, just to give people some idea.

So you could consider me an advance user, the problem is now, I have helped lee in some small way with creating the EBE, with some suggestions and ideas. I have now turned around and said well that isn't want I expected nor will it suit my needs.Lee and I had very different ideas of what the EBE should be with the suggestions and ideas tabled. I was looking at taking the EBE and creating an entire level with it, I am not sure lee had the same idea, and was just looking at creating a single building at a time.

Which is fine it is called the building editor after all.The problem is there is still no viable option to create indoor levels at a reasonable rate, I wanted the building editor to fill that gap as well it doesn't seems it will, not in the first version at least.So yes the ideas and suggestions made to lee, took the average joe in account who doesn't have vast knowledge of structures into account, which what it needs to be easy to use, I think some where along the lines where I said to lee that advance users shouldn't be taken for granted got a bit lost in translation.

Ultimately lee did a great job and glad I could help in some part to make it easier for guys that is going to be happy with the EBE to create buildings, it doesn't seem at this point and time I will be able to get what I want and need out of it.it's nothing to do with 3d model editor features. All I really need the EBE to support is convex and concave shapes , if you not sure what it is, or how it is used then EBE is perfect for you, if you know what it is and how it's used, then you have some understanding of why I am not entirely happy with the end result so far.

Actually the Segment system was highly efficient in the end, it created hulls, if you made a full indoor level, it would not render past the hulls which made the system great, you could use the full grid, he slow down came in when you started adding entities and AI, then the system didn't preform all that well.

That said you have to remember that gameguru and FPSC classic had to consider buildings and segments have to be used in every possible way.My Segment pack for the FPSC classic completely did away with every single uneeded face.I have already asked lee if he was planning on adding a no render paint brush and texture.

So while the segment editor has some limitations, especially null space, and that AI wouldn't work on floor or entities bigger then 100 x 100 units, you could have done far more with the system then just rooms, A lot of people seems to forget that.

So yes the segment system is old, but a revamp to the 23rd century isn't a bad idea, just as long the null space and 100 x 100 AI collision stays safely behind in the 18th century.

I wouldn't even want to try .... Even I could probably do better in sketchup than I could do with the first release of the EBE
But that wasn't really my point

I totally agree ...The Segment system was great , fast efficient as you say ...No argument there in fact no argument at all


This was the only real point I was making .... The average user couldn't do this which you have kind of made clearer
They relied on others to create and bought TGC packs,
Chances are the EBE will develop more like the old classic Segment editor but now the user will have the ability to create their own out of the box.
I had a segment creator and was able to create some cool levels despite the fact it only made corners, walls, floor and a roof and other users did as well.
But the fact you were able to create them using your own textures made all the difference.

This is only the first release .... We really cant knock it until we have tried it ... This community surprises the hell out of me all the time and always seem to take a feature further than it was designed to do.

@synchromesh

Your words were


Bit of a backtrack



So you admit EBE isn't suited to creating your level, and still consider what you do outside of EBE will be better.This isn't what I entirely envisioned when I approached lee, I had half expect that lee would choose the more traditional way of octree,(think mine craft) its far more flexible.So I am not entirely happy with it, I will rather speak up then keep quite as it is still in early development, but ground work is done, so it is sort of game over from here, lee can only build on it not change it, which to me means a new version might have new features it won't change how it fundamentally works.

It is the fundamental that irks me.So definitely happy if users find a use for it, would make their life easier, don't see how it is going to change drastically to please me or others and I don't expect it will, but again it comes down to leaving advance user fending for them self, I don't mind, I stupidly fought tooth and nail on the subject matter of EBE, on here and on email. Never again.

I see the EBE as a gain for non-modellers and those that are modellers whether it be at semi/professional level or not, haven't lost anything as they wouldn't use it anyway and will continue to use the software they have already become proficient in.

No I was answering to your quote below which I took as a kind of challenge with you modelling using blocks and me with the EBE..
Perhaps I misread ?


A block bunker ( and that's all I used ) would probably be quite feasible I wont know till I try...
I'm also thinking some cool isometric stuff will be possible. I'm just trying to be positive about what we can do rather than what we cant.
Either way .... whatever I create will be unique to my map and created out of the box .

Aren't you always the positive spin doctor You see the glass as half full, I see it half empty

Great that it will be unique, the question is, will it be visually enough, that is where it gets dark and murky for me as well as symmetry, some thing that is too symmetrical doesn't work, I don't want to go into a full length discussion about symmetry again, in case of EBE it will definitely be make or break.

You should definitely enjoy the EBE, will either way give it a twirl, will probably rage quit or not, depends entirely how cold it is that day.

as I said just stick with what your proficient in

Always
I find when I think the worst or improbability of anything someone out there always proves me wrong

I know that feeling, my general state of being is "wrong until proven otherwise"

I just sat through the EBE video, and my initial reaction is that it looks pretty good for pass #1 to me. Looks like it should enable a quicker creation of generic buildings, which can then be customised with styling elements from doors, windows, signs, furnishings etc.

I've also spent a good many hours crafting my own unique construction kit so I can plug together a building made of many parts, and really, in the main this would have done the job, except for the 'trim'. SO a definite plus as far as I can see.

The only concerns I have are that I really think we need to be able to export a creation eg: Brick faced Semi Detached house, so we can use it in other maps, and that we should be able to then simply modify the textures to create versions easily for example plaster faced SD house...

The EBE looks very interesting!

However, I agree that the ability to create "indoor" levels (just like it was possible with FPSC's segments) should be introduced at some point in the future!

The EBE looks good for the purpose,
and look forward to it released, mabie not everyone
will use it but it gives options for most to be creative
and thats what it is all about, you can also create your
own EBE files if i am right, so could be fun, even at entry level
it looks promising. and am sure new or old users will enjoy using
the EBE .

16bits, 16bits, please. I have a modest computer and memory i have, now days it is not that expensive. Not everybody can use blender or other 3d modelers so for me to create special items or buildings is very hard. The only other option is to buy something close to what i am looking for ! Lee's EBE would give me the ability to create something exactly what i want, maybe not as good as blender, but as i said before i need a tool I can use! Plus would it not let me use item sections or parts i already purchased to help in what new item I needed? Lee can do a basic layout but we have the ability to modify it more if we want to ! A 16 bit data structure I understand, modifying, ok i can do. I can take a unit and like the door example, I can pretty it up. I dont HAVE to BUT i CAN if i want to. GameGuru is becoming a overall tool i can use for games as well as needed demo creation!! I don't need to be a artist or a 3d modeler, WAY to GO Lee!!!!!

hello


I noticed that people are mixed about what is best for the ebe most people seem to think that just because you can make a good building in blender that should be good enough and that you only need the very basic with making a building in game guru . I agree that you can make good buildings in blender and many other model makers out there. The problem i have is I have not been able to import any models with the importer let alone make them in blender. But if it that works for you then more power too you. But for those who can't or don't understand how to do that process, that process seems no very viable. And I can also see Lee's point of trying to save memory. But when it comes to game creation I know that buildings you walk in need to be more detailed then say a building in the back ground so simple buildings might not be the best choice for walking around in. And something else no one seems to be thinking about what about details like holes and glass in the roofs , pools ,all kinds of stuff you can't get with just simple models . In fact if you make it in blender then your holes and glass and details would have to be included in you building and if you don't put that in you model then you will have to add it with game guru. And I'm willing to say that you can't do that with out some sort of modification or even having to make some other program to add that kind of stuff. So then were just getting back to being like unreal or one other editors out there and we are no better off then when we started. To me game guru should make the process better not remake the horse with different paint. I feel that lee should come up with something that gives you holes and details and then give you the options to use your own textures , and also let you add your own models if you buy them . To me if he make the basic details like holes and glass roof and domes pools and underground things as basics the less he will have to add later. But that 's me and if you say no one needs that kinda stuff, mark my words , sooner or later some one will want to have some kind of detail and they wont be able to add it and lee will have to do something special to fix it. To me smart design now will save in the future.

I agree, but you have to realise that Game Guru can only access 4 gig. It doesn't matter if you have 32 on your system, Game Guru will run out of memory at 4 gig. So I can understand why Lee is trying to make it ultra efficient. We won't get more memory available to us unless GG goes 64-bit, which I can't see in the immediate future. So, until we see how much memory the buildings start to take up, possibly better to stick with 8-bit values.

The reason we need 16 bit is so we can create the small details like window sills and skirting boards, glass should be simply a case of having a glass entity covering a hole. In addition to the EBE we need a whole heap of very simple 3d entities to be created (or imported from FPSC if they already exist) for things like window panes, doors, bathroom fittings (surprisingly hard to find) kitchen stuff etc etc.

I wanted to create a realistic hospital ward for a simple zombie shoot-em-up but came unstuck when I realised that the majority of the stuff that you would find scattered around a hospital just doesn't exist as models in any of the packs and the models that do exist are not available in enough variation to make a realistic scene. For example I wanted a hospital style bath, one of the old fashioned type with all the pipework visible and grip bars to help patients get in and out, next on my list was a hospital style toilets, the type suitable for infirm or disabled patients. I searched high and low on hundreds of 3d model sites and found nothing suitable for use in a game, I did find a $300 dollar model with about a million polys on an industrial architecture site.

What I am most interested in though is how Lee plans to make characters navigate inside the buildings we create in EBE, will we be able to place entities in a building on say the third floor and have a character navigate to it from anywhere in the building under Lua control? Will the AI system be able to navigate around entities placed inside a building?

@ Jerry
Glad you like

@ all
I think is too early to compare EBE with others most developed systems.
What I want to see is what EBE can do, and how I can help to improved it.

3com

I hope the EBE will be the start of the bots being able to navigate different floor levels . What good is a 2+ story building when only the player can navigate up/down stairs or lifts .

I'm pretty sure it will be as soon as the basics are down and confirmed 100%. Not sure how this will translate to non EBE buildings yet though.

Well we know Bots on all levels are coming .....
Rather have and editor that can create 2+ storys now than bots with AI in the near future and an editor that can only make a floor level

Awesome to see the progress so far. Hopefully our indoor levels have the ability to look better than some of the scenes created in FPSC. There were some seriously awesome shader effects going on back then. It was quick and easy to create an indoor scene in minutes.

Some old examples:

Nomad


T-Bone (myself)


Matt


bond1

I know nothing about shaders, and I also don't have much experience with FPSC, but I have as of late seen some of the magic that they can do. I have to wonder why they aren't more plentiful in GG?

I think all these shader effects were user generated stuff. FPSC wasn't as impressive when it was first released either.

Probably all Bond1

There were several:
Dark Goblin
Uzi Idiot
s4real
Nomad Soul and many others, even wrote (or mostly re-wrote/tweaked) a couple myself, though as with all things I barely scratched the surface

There are a few shaders that get little use in GameGuru even though they are in effectbank now. It is mostly up to Artists to create media which uses shaders and this takes a real understanding of how shaders work, most effects require the appropriate texture maps to use them. Atlas walk (effect_animate.fx ) isn't an easy one to create the maps for and only seen a few items which use it so far as it takes work to create the sprite sheets and is a skill in it's own right. Ideas for imaginative use is the key.
Post process shaders are available for use by all but entity shaders won't be of much use to non modelers/texture Artists even though your average user seems to think they would improve their games out of the box and holler for them to be included.

On topic it will be interesting to see how the EBE will handle shaders, if you can include entities in a build and whether these could have their own shaders assigned. If so and you can save out EBE builds then it might be interesting to use it to create 'entity parts' which can have different shader effects (and textures aside from the Atlas) in a single EBE 'model'.

DarkShader was an awesome utility for FPSC, of which I still use for GG to this day.



I noticed that only recently! Quite a nice find