Product Chat / GameGuru 1.1

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Emrys
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 18:53 Edited at: 17th Nov 2015 18:54
I'm little surprised no one has posted up yet, how you all finding it?

The performance on my machine has more than doubled and we can group select now which is a god send !

Well done to all involved, best GG version yet !
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Kalle801
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 18:55
Its really ultra fast now! Thank You GG
HarryWever
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 18:58
I am also very happy with this build.
Love the rubberband tool. fps increase of almost the double on the big escape map
Occlusion works.
more options, like lightrays etc.. yep a very good update..

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Whyrag
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 19:42
Awesome update ! Very fast and working great so far !
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Sanguis
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 20:01
In some demo maps, I have over 200fps more than before.

The IDE feels more stable and quicker. I really like it.

I'm looking forword to see the connection with Directx 11 and what it brings. It's a good time for GG!
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yrkoon
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 20:24
Well, I somehow was expecting that the upgrade would happen automatically, but one has to download it explicitly from steam. Not a bad move if that holds true for versions to come based on DX11, which won't work for those still on XP and Vista, so, they will not end up with a GG unusable to them.

I had a full go through Morning Mountain Stroll, start to end. Although the Overall increase in framerate wasn't that great for me, a General Feeling that everything is a noticeable bit more fluent (which usually means at least 15% Performance increase) is definitely there (system specs: GTX980M, core i7-4710MQ@2.50 GHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1-64)

Also on the good side: I died a lot on incoming RPGs, but never had to face the dreaded "Floating grass" again at all after being resurrected.


And my other quirk with RPGs is at least remedied a bit: whereas the Rocket men formerly obviosly didn't have to aim at all but just needed to shoot in My General direction to kill me, 5 out of 10 of my rpgs used to pass right through the enemy or exploded right at their feet or at an object next to them without doing any harm to them. This is no longer the case.

The cooling fan kept much calmer and quieter than before.


So, the update is looking promising so far, and it seems that good things were done to GG in much more than only the performance Corner.


Were there any Problems: Yes, but tiny ones.
1) a very occasional texture flicker I never saw before with M.M.S.
2) Pressing "T" to replace a weapon Held by another weapon type just found did not work
3) also very occasionally, my first and second shot were fired soundless.



Well Done, GG Team

Oh, last but not least : .fpm release is still 308, so I can happily continue my work on my two humble Tools.


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Moshroom
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 21:08 Edited at: 17th Nov 2015 22:19
For the first time, Morning Mountain Stroll and Fantasy Pack sample map are actually playable in my machine. Thanks!! The wait was long, but it was worth it. Now I can finally start creating my own game instead of just playing with the scripts .

Edit: For some reason when I launch GameGuru, (especially if I have other programs such as Firefox running simultaneously) sometimes it takes longer to load and after that "Tutorial 4" video starts to play automaticly. This is a bit annoying. Otherwise I'm happy with the update.
science boy
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 22:23
my issue is the pine trees in the foliage section are stretched and on another level they are showing furthest lod i believe. anyway at the moment i only tested a pine tree and it is not very good at all can not use it! is this just mine?

it is when you play it gets disfigured
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mguy1122
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 22:28 Edited at: 17th Nov 2015 22:30
My level I've been working on it went from 8 fps to 20 fps on high settings (it has a bit of detail). Which is a nice jump but not enough for someone to play it enjoyably without a beastly rig. It's a nice improvement but I think it needs a bit more work, at least on my end. I also seem to be getting a lot of pop ins with entities now. or Maybe game guru doesn't like my computer as much as others

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synchromesh
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 22:48
You can adjust the occlusion slider to suit your needs in the metric panel ( Tab Tab )
This will stop the pop ups ...
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Slaur3n
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Posted: 17th Nov 2015 23:00
I ran Curse of the Draugr before update with 30-40fps, with the new update its 80-90fps. Wow!

But then I noticed that occlusion was set on 100, so in the big open landscapes you couldnt see entities far away. When I put occlusion to 10 or less the fps dropped to around 30-40fps like i had before.
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CRF
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 00:52
Speed increase here too,but... Press/hold escape in lightmapping (F1) caused frieze up. After 10 minutes frozen and unresponsive, I closed the window with task manager. The main editor window had no issues.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 00:58
Quote: "Speed increase here too,but... Press/hold escape in lightmapping (F1) caused frieze up. After 10 minutes frozen and unresponsive, I closed the window with task manager. The main editor window had no issues."


I just tried that without problems ... it should be pretty instant .

Anyone else seen this issue ?
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 07:31
I'm still playing around with 1.1 but so far I like it, not a massive FPS boost but overall what I've seen so far seems stable. Will have to test out lightmapping side.
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ozziedave
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 07:47 Edited at: 18th Nov 2015 07:48
Great Improvement in FPS, C+ makes a big difference. GG is definitely the easiest 3d Game Maker to be found on the Internet
On-wards and Up-wards, Tale-hoe Chaps.
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MooKai
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 07:57
When you create a new level and click on random, it only creates one type of mountains.... It's always the same map.
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Old Larry
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 08:57
MooKai wrote: "When you create a new level and click on random, it only creates one type of mountains.... It's always the same map."

True that. it's always the same map
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OldFlak
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 09:45 Edited at: 18th Nov 2015 09:46
MooKai wrote: ""When you create a new level and click on random, it only creates one type of mountains.... It's always the same map.""


Same here. so far the only glitch I have come across.

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Uman
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 10:30 Edited at: 18th Nov 2015 10:32
I don't see a lot of difference in speed here.

Any increases for me seems in the main to be brought about by the following which negates any benefit for me :

* Dynamic resolution: If the draw count is high and fps is below 60, the resolution will dynamically adjust to improve frame rate......

I already use low settings and have most affects turned off completely to help with performance. I don't use occlusion at all as my levels are open world and don't want anything popping up before my eyes. I have always had set/used and tested like that so no benefit/boost or difference there.


* Characters use a diff shader from a distance and do not animate, even when instances......

I can see enemies at distance and they need to react at distance in normal behaviours so that is a minus for me and presume that is hard coded which is not helpful.

* Shadows speed up: Shadows are not always drawn for objects dependant on their distance and size......

Same as above. Now shadows for trees and such like are mostly missing completely until I get to a few yards away from them and then the shadows pop into view which looks just very unprofessional. I cant use that and again guess its hard coded which is completely unhelpful with having no end user choice. Most speed benefits again seem come at the expense of quality loss in gameplay/visual display and or more hard coded features or lack of, that end users have no control or choice over, not that it would help much if they did have control as these changes have been introduced for a reason of enforcing a level of speed increase internally necessary for the engine to return them. i.e. cant have more speed without losing features or quality to one degree or another. Normal perhaps I guess within a range depending upon the engine.

I can see there is some speed increase from recent versions but its still similar to versions some time back before GG. In levels where there are more world objects blocking the view and indoors again there is a speed increase over the recent versions as mentioned and some speed benefit may be gained with this update and its updated features, however open world games of any level of complexity akin to a modern game are another matter given that they would/could be required to handle large numbers of both static and dynamic objects, AI's and heavy/advanced gameplay dynamics requiring a heavy drain on any engine.

I am getting around an average of perhaps between 35 and 80 fps dependent upon level, location, view and so on. That's OK except that to achieve that all settings are at lowest and all features/sliders possible are turned off in levels which contain only a small proportion of the level of content and game dynamics as mentioned above as might be expected and or required in a quality, modern game.

If you are making and indoor game or relatively enclosed/restricted view external one this release will probably be of the most help in any speed benefit.

I will wait a few more updates or years and see what comes of it. See if it becomes a full, well rounded, capable tool before doing anything with it other than testing release versions as usual.

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TazMan
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 10:48
Quote: "Well, I somehow was expecting that the upgrade would happen automatically"


@yrkoon, if you used the steam icon / version then as mine did it should have downloaded automaticaly.
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CRF
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 14:54
You can opt out of automatic downloads in the steam settings. You need to switch it back on.
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 15:07
all working great here, phenomenal update, nice one lee and ravey, no glaring bugs as yet, working on something new here at the moment to. i have an average speed up of about 80%,with everything on highest. very happy here.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 15:29
Hi Uman, I am quite alarmed that you are seeing no significant speed up with V1.1. If you have time I would like to run a few before and after tests to see why you are getting so little FPS increase. If you can email me directly at lee@thegamecreators.com we can bounce a few emails and see if we can identify where we're sticking on your system. Your GT 530 is a decent enough dedicated card and should show improvements over the previous update, and I'd like to investigate if you're up for it.
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Gervais
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 18:52
Hi Uman, I did have similar experience when I first updated to version 1.1 on my Laptop and desktop and realize that windows was not using the GPU but the integrated INTEL graphic. Use the NVIDIA console and add GG to the list of program that use the GPU this may fix you problem
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Old Larry
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Posted: 18th Nov 2015 21:33 Edited at: 18th Nov 2015 22:03
I already have minimum request for GG, maybe a little more (see the photo attached).
The speed of game is relay increased, but just for a little. Must wait for the GG to switch on DX11.
If used one music, that music of game make other sounds to can't hear it (no sound for key added, gate opening, etc)...
View this video, please. No terrain or vegetation used (just a sky, water and two oil rigs), and a lot of options is setting at minimum to maintain some decent speed of game.
Well, the GG it's in a huge upgrading process, please be patience.
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snowdog
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Posted: 19th Nov 2015 20:38
Think I've worked out the crash when pressing Esc during the F1-F4 lightmapping.

Reproduction Rate: 100%
Steps To Reproduce:

1) Start GameGuru.
2) Load the 'Devil's Hill' multiplayer map from the Demo Games menu.
3) Wait for the map to load into the GameGuru Editor.
4) Press the Test Game icon to test the game.
5) After the map has loaded and the game starts press F1-F4 to start the lightmapping process.
6) Allow the assets and scenery to load.
7) Once the lightmapping process starts press the Esc key when there isn't a ''(hold ESCAPE to cancel)" displayed on screen.
8) Note that when the next "(hold ESCAPE to cancel)" prompt is displayed GameGuru crashes.


You may have guessed that I used to work in the industry years ago!

Quite an easy one to work out even though I'm a wee bit ring rusty. I came across the same crash myself earlier.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 19th Nov 2015 21:23
I have seen this reported by someone else for light mapping in general
But again I cannot reproduce this ....
I tried F1 to F4 ..When it says press esc to cancel I do then it stops going back to the game pretty instantly for me ?

Anyone else had this issue ?
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nuncio
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Posted: 19th Nov 2015 23:13
i just tried the new build on my latest map. the fps rate changed from 8 to around 30 wich is really good. i have a major problem though. objects are disappearing and reappearing in testgame all the time wich looks not ver ygood. objects (buildings, trees) and popping up and disappearing when iturn around. in the distance but also very near. i tried to chnge the sliders but it didn't work.

oh now when i open the first "island hopper" map GG totally crashed. runtime error.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 00:03
Quote: "objects are disappearing and reappearing in testgame all the time wich looks not ver ygood. objects (buildings, trees) and popping up and disappearing when iturn around. in the distance but also very near. i tried to chnge the sliders but it didn't work.
"


I noticed you Occlusion is still at 100. I had to turn it all the way to 0 to stop stuff from disappearing. I don't know how the occluder decides what to render and what not to render.
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cybernescence
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 00:39
Quote: "I don't know how the occluder decides what to render and what not to render."


Me either. I get noticeable FPS improvements whilst using it, but it's only practical to use it in certain scenarios at the moment (e.g. where player within a flat enclosed map area where horizon or any span of distance can't been seen). To that end it would be great if we could get a lua command to dynamically set/stop occluder - then we could use it a bit like HideTerrian() and HideWater(), i.e. when appropriate within the levels.

I'm busy converting assets for LOD - I'm finding this is making quite a difference too, but is much better than the occluder 'popping' effect. Downside is the time taken to add the LOD of course .

Overall though, I'm finding this a smooth stable release and am pretty impressed that a code refactor of this nature has worked so well.
snowdog
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 01:30
You didn't follow my repro steps properly. You press and hold Esc when the prompt ISN'T on the screen. As the lightmapping progresses there are two states, one where the prompt is there and one where there's no prompt. Press and hold Esc when the prompt ISN'T on the screen and when the prompt appears again GameGuru crashes.

Probably should have put ISN'T in capitals or bold to make it clearer.
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MXS
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 02:16
@Old Larry I like the video that was awesome. but one thing, you should use F11 to monitor your frame rares. the fps showing when you hit the tab is not your real fps. the hud slow down your fps so it is best to monitor it with F11. so you can see the real fps you get when you have no hud showing. also hide hardware info in the set up before doing so you will see what I mean. this one of the reason why I get 900 fps on a blank level with just flat terrain. which is better than the 400 to 500 fps I was getting with the old guru.
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nuncio
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 06:39
Quote: "I noticed you Occlusion is still at 100. I had to turn it all the way to 0 to stop stuff from disappearing. I don't know how the occluder decides what to render and what not to render."

thanks!! i will try that when i'm home! that was the slider i didn't change

i always get "runtime error 0" when i open "sun of a beach" and GG said it is because of a water decal wich does not work ("dds display error") i have no idea what this means but i can't open the map anymore.
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Old Larry
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 08:30 Edited at: 20th Nov 2015 08:35
MXS wrote: "@Old Larry I like the video that was awesome. but one thing, you should use F11 to monitor your frame rares. the fps showing when you hit the tab is not your real fps."

In the same conditions (by pressing TAB like in my video example), with the old GG I've goted max 20 fps, so it's more speed now in the GG v1.1
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OldFlak
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 13:14
Played the Get to the River map. Notice a couple niggles with some entities not being able to walk near or over easily.

When you get to the first two buildings, go inside and try walking near the rubbish piles. And when you get to the river, try walking over the broken pallets on the pier.
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nuncio
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 19:25 Edited at: 20th Nov 2015 19:26
hi! i have set occulsion to 0 and now everything is displayed again as usual. good. the framerate dropped by doing this from 30 to 9. bad, so after the update my map has the same framerate as before.
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rolfy
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Posted: 20th Nov 2015 20:23 Edited at: 20th Nov 2015 20:53
I get the feeling you may be using a lot of media from the store which will have to be updated to work properly with the occlusion set up. Although TGC may have updated some stock media they also may have missed some too.
I found one myself recently which was a small bush scaled up and it was an easy fix

Only certain entity's require a fix and transparency is the main problem where objects behind will be occluded by the transparent areas when they should be seen through it, this causes objects to 'pop' into view when you move around them. You have to identify the offending culprits and add notanoccluder = 1 to the fpe. Hopefully it may not be too many of your entity's and you can switch occlusion back on, it's a balancing act.
DVader
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Posted: 21st Nov 2015 23:43
From my experience occlusion fails on most small item scaled to a larger scale. Out of curiosity, are the items you have popping in and out scaled at all?


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nuncio
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2015 00:24
most of the objects that have this problem were not scaled. the objects are from oldpmans prison pack, nothing was scaled.
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2015 01:37
might, need to send you map file to tech support, so they can check the media. send a link thru the help button.
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CRF
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2015 01:48
@Snowdog

Good work, and appreciate the time... but I tried to cancel out at 75% complete.
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snowdog
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2015 01:38
CRF, doesn't matter when you try and cancel, if you press Esc when it doesn't say 'Press Esc to cancel' it will (I think) always crash. Had another look at it last night. When that message isn't being displayed the lightmapping system is saving the lightmap that had just been calculated (that prompt to cancel appears when it is calculating the lightmaps and disappears when saving).
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2015 04:47
Quote: "You press and hold Esc when the prompt ISN'T on the screen. "


Don't press Esc when the prompt ISN'T on the screen, then. (Disclaimer: I am NOT a doctor!)
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synchromesh
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2015 09:58
Quote: "Don't press Esc when the prompt ISN'T on the screen, then."


I do have to ask ....Does it work correctly when you press "Esc" when the prompted ?
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DVader
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2015 12:33
Quote: "most of the objects that have this problem were not scaled. the objects are from oldpmans prison pack, nothing was scaled."


Not even in the FPE?


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LeeBamber
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2015 16:24
I was able to reproduce a 'freeze' where when you press and hold SHIFT during the save phase of each sub-lightmap step, which would then skip to the next sub-lightmap step but then stay there frozen. Was this the crash reported? Added to my list, well found!
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snowdog
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2015 17:13
Yup, it works fine when you press Esc with the prompt on screen.

Didn't report the bug anywhere apart from here
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3com
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Posted: 24th Nov 2015 11:47
Hi guys
I'm getting out of a total crash of windows, and now I'm starting from scratch.
The question is:
Can I install GG from scratch using the upgrade, or should I install gameguru first, and then upgrade to the latest version?

Thanks in advance for all feedbacks.

3com
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OS: Windows 10 (64) - Ram: 4 gb - Hd: 283 gb - Video card: Intel(R) HD Graphics

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 24th Nov 2015 12:31 Edited at: 24th Nov 2015 12:33
@3com : You would simply go to Steam, select GameGuru and uninstall from there. Then go to the Steam root folder and delete the GameGuru folder manually (SteamLibrary\SteamApps\common\Game Guru) and then return to Steam and install it afresh. Steam always holds the latest version (with all previous updates applied) and so will install the very latest version for you.

P.S. Remember to back up any custom media you may have stored in your GameGuru files folder such as entities, levels, sounds, e.t.c. You don't need to worry about store content though as that can be re-downloaded from the software FILE menu once you have installed a new copy on your PC.
PC SPECS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, Intel Core i7 920 (PASSMARK:5008), NVIDIA Geforce 9600 GT GPU (PASSMARK:752) , 6GB RAM

3com
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Posted: 24th Nov 2015 14:09
Thanks LeeBamber

3com
Laptop: Lenovo - Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 1005M @ 1.90GHz

OS: Windows 10 (64) - Ram: 4 gb - Hd: 283 gb - Video card: Intel(R) HD Graphics

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