@Uman-many thanks for purchasing the tool I will send the links soon. Sorry you were unable to save a segment out in the Demo version, that surprised me as I tested on all OS systems including XP, Vista, Win7, 8, 10. I'll double check the demo as I was able to save out the 10 segments without any issues prior to release.

My Bad,

I have saved out now from the Demo version by using the Middle mouse button !

I discovered that in one of your videos - when I had thought that choosing file - save would have worked

No worries.

Good luck with the product which seems to be a great boost to users content and level building.

Thanks

@Uman-no worries, I'll have a look into the whole save functionality- after pressing save button and the save dialog box is shown you can either type in the name of the segment or to use the original default name press the Cancel button (I may change this as users may actually want to cancel the whole save procedure). You should receive full product links shortly. Loads of improvements/features to come.

I used the original FPSC segment names so I don't get confused. I copied the names from the FPSC files manually as the name field in the save dialogue in the Demo version at least was blank.

I tried placing the saved segment entities inside GG and seems to work perfectly except for any GG issues - like snapping accuracy and crashing as usual when I went to make a cup of tea....and leaving it alone for a while

Thanks for your hard work on this.

Peter

@Uman-hope you got the links ok.

To all, just remember to use "cancel" button at the save dialog to save out segments with default FPSC names. I can change this if need be.

Hi, please can the person who recently ordered with the email address ending in "aternatives.ca", please contact me with an alternative email address as I received "undeliverable" email back after attempting to send the links to the welder tool.

Please can I ask that you do not use work email addresses or any email address that begin with "info@", only personal email addresses as I have experienced the "undeliverable" issue several times now when these email addresses are used. Many thanks
Mike (BOTR)

BOTR,

Yes got the links OK. Thank you.



Edit Update :

Good tool this. Attached is a screen shot showing part of an FPSC Game level inside GG. Converted over 650 objects successfully here to .dbo of just over 7mb which seems to be really good. Minus all dynamic entities of course. fps is currently very high with terrain and so on disabled it being an inside level and no dynamic entities lights etc as yet put back in.

GG will have to progress somewhat yet to take advantage of this so the player and AI could navigate and so on levels like this and far more complex ones I have in FPSC. Some FPSC levels I have would have lifts and other dynamics which would prevent the player from moving through the level without a way to do so in GG at the moment.

I have some far bigger FPSC levles with which is likely to be thousands of objects and it will be interesting to push this product and GG to see if can cope.

Two things I would report back on :

In the conversions, when needing to go downstairs from a higher level room - the default floor tile space (cut out) FPSC uses converted here is too a little small for the player to get through when going down the stairs and so one needs to use the "C" key to crouch I guess due to slight differences in FPSC and GG scaling. Not a biggie perhaps and collision setting or scaling player a bit if possible might work around it.

The screen shot shows a medium Entity quality setting inside GG. If I switch to Highest entity quality in GG the whole of the textures on the .dbo model here go haywire. Looks like a Shader issue/conflict thing on that Highest entity setting? Not sure if anyone else has tried it and found similar?

Anyway great work. I hope to test more larger FPSC levels when I get a chance.

@Uman, thanks for the feedback and the pic (has made my day)- glad you like the tool so far. I would really like to hear how it goes with your larger levels and how the tool/GG copes with them. I'll be revisiting the texturing/shader side for both FPSC X9/X10 so that they use the available DNS textures correctly. I'm not sure if there is anything I can do about the scaling, although the puncher tool may help. Maybe I need to split the levels out in smaller chunks which I think Rolfy mentioned a while back....uhmmmmm. I'll see what I can do.

Superior job on this BOTR! Will be purchasing soon but will have a company email address but you should be able to use it fine. Best of luck with your creation - hope you keep going with it for a while yet . Cheers.

@Cybernescence-thanks for your kind comment.... I will certainly be keeping at it, it's finding the time at the moment, but there will be much more to come.

Here are just some of the things I will be focusing on in the coming days,weeks,months but not limited to (and in no particular order):

-- add ability for user to change a texture for any segment part that make up the original FPSC segment
-- revisit DNS texturing so that the user has option to apply _D, _N, _S textures instead of just _D2 only textures.
-- revisit door issues (sinking)-almost there but something still missing somewhere.
-- change SAVE segment functionality instead of using CANCEL to default original file names find another way as some users
may want to actually cancel the save.
-- look into possibility of importing FPSC level dynamic entities.
--general functionality and coding improvements throughout.
-- continue to develop the Segment Editor
-- add more features to the Punch/Weld tool
-- revamp the GUI
-- look into the possibility of saving out the levels in chunks or at least giving the user the option.
-- would really like the ability to be able to do some post editing of the FPSC levels prior to exporting, just a thought


If anyone has any other feedback, please let me know. I welcome any ideas that will improve the tool.

Hi Mike,

I converted all my original FPSC levels - except one monster size one - which is dupilcated in the smaller ones as separate levels anyway as FPSC originally could handle the biggest one but later I had to cut it into smaller levels due to performance issues. I may try the mobster size one later - much later as don't need it for the purpose of testing stuff anyway

I have one level which amounted to around 1800 objects/parts to convert so the process can handle large (ish) volumes certainly.

I have attached another level screen shot. You can see its relatively complicated, though obviously all the dynamic entities, window glass, doors, keys and more are missing, plus in FPSC this level and view had a lot of decals. e.g. force and electric fields and so on. The segment structure itself converts and seems to import very well indeed and intact. I have found some of the FPSC platforms I used in levels don't render on the undersides in GG, probably - texture or model face convert issue to consider - no worries. It's asking a lot to convert an existing large complex level perfectly and probably best to create levels in FPSC working around known issues found or adjust the existing levels in FPSC first to fix issues there by replacing offending segments if critical perhaps...............

Main thing that has me stumped at the moment in the levels inside GG is that I cant seem to get Lights to render on the imported converted models and similarly the level (model) details don't seem to cast Shadows. e.g. a pillar, table, chairs and so on. I guess I am referring to a model self shadowing or casting shadows upon itself? which results in a bland visual look and not as it would be in reality and as should be. Not sure if this is an issue my end or is more likely to be a GG lighting/shader conflict issue as I know the imported models here don't like the current textures/model entity when quality is set to Highest in GG. Light in GG should and do (currently) display at Medium entity quality setting inside GG but I cant get them to display on the model myself - though the light will display as soon as I drag the light outside onto the terrain which it illuminates.

I guess it may be best to just import basic walls and then add all the details inside GG if that would do the trick where large complex FPSC levels already exist - so one would have to remove detail entities (static e.g. tables) from FPSC levels and recreate in GG. Lot of work as it's a nightmare in GG to do compared to FPSC.

There were a few other things I found which are less of an issue many and all of these things partly perhaps related to my end or GG related - it being way behind FPSC capability when it comes to some of these things. We are using two tools here both of which are in development and benefit here is restricted by GG as much as anything else. Could be years or perhaps never before GG will be able to make use of a level like this to match what was achieved in FPSC by trying to recreate fully it inside GG. e.g. Navigating is an issue for player leave alone AI characters in GG here. I am using my own jetpack temporarily to get around so I can walk/navigate around levels as I don't have lifts and other methods in GG to even allow me to check these levels out in test mode.

The Player scale problem I came across was particularly problematical when coming to FPSC segments like small tunnel FPSC segments and stair models and the doors were a bit low/small too though navigable. The easy solution is an easy one and I simply set the imported model scale to 120 in its .fpe which is a good size to fix the problems. I guess one could make it 130 but 120 is just workable. It scales not problem this way in GG and only takes a moment to do so no real issue there thank goodness. The slightly larger size then also looks more appropriate inside GG too to me.

Some things that may help users indoors. Turn off terrain, veg and stuff if you don't need it indoors and try turning off occlusion completely as I found that boosts fps quite a bit. I use a trigger zone with the goindoors script too at player start for good measure.



EDIT UPDATE :

Lighting : Two more screen shots attached which show what I am getting.

1. entity setting Medium with yellow light - cant see light and texture display normal.

2. entity setting High with same yellow light - can see light but texture display is unusable.

At Medium setting the light should display so I may need to look into it further and perhaps be able to find a work around with a lot of work and effort - eventually if necessary.

@Uman-thanks for your post/comments-wow, I'll have to reread after work, but I will look into some of the things you brought up and see what can be done. I'll be revisiting the DINS texturing system so that effects can be applied and other features that need looking into.
So I will probably put the Segment Editor to one side just for the moment and concentrate on getting textures/effects correct. I'll also look into the scaling and see if anything can be done my side without messing the levels up. Lots of interesting stuff to look into in the next few days but it will hopefully all be worth it.

Thanks for the reply.

I have attached two more screen shots to the post above showing the lighting I am getting at medium and high entity settings.

At the medium setting I may be able to help myself with a lot of work but wont know till I try but as said not time critical.

UPDATE :

Lighting at Medium entity setting may not be working for me as a lot of my FPSC textures don't use D2/D FPSC default naming conventions and I can update all of those if necessary with a lot of work, though in both FPSC and GG they do work with lighting fine but perhaps not via the resultant conversion in this instance for converted models here. The High setting may be to be related to the GG Shader but may be the same reason too unless others get the same result as I do at Highest entity setting.

Personally I don't do much currently with the I/S/N textures as I am fussy about over shader use rather than selective and besides don't really have a system to use it fully due to performance drain lots of effects have, Best to have the option though if you are developing a product and making games.

No worries and thanks again.

Just to keep you smiling here's a few more screen shots of part of a large training level where you learn to jump and climb around, fly, navigate obstacles and dangers, enemies and practice shooting weapons at them and a bit of fun shooting cartoon cows, sheep and birds - or at least in FPSC you can.


At least they show how well your product does and if GG could do better with these then they should look much better later when finished there, if ever Would be good to get the lighting and missing stuff back in but without AI and the other dynamic stuff too yet we will have to wait some time yet.

Peter

@Uman - thanks for your updates and the info of which I've taken a note. I'll be looking into these issues after work.

As a general note, I found that some FPS files contain more than 18 parts that make up the segment and therefore I'll be adding more flexibility into the code to adjust accordingly. A good example is the Metro Theatre segments which some have 21 parts to a segment. Not sure how I missed that but will correct. [update -- See example pic below.. as you can see the GUI is somewhat crammed-will soon fix]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that.

Great tool anyway as is before any updating that may come along. Thumbs up.

I should say that I can convert single FPSC segments across to GG and get them displaying lights perfectly. Tried some sci-fi corridor segments and they are great. Seems to be only the larger complex levels that don't react to Lights yet it seems. Tool is invaluable for those single segments and alike so worth its wait in gold there

I have attached another screen shot from FPSC level as is there for comparison - similar to one posted earlier after conversion. This one from FPSC has all the things included for me to aim for with GG perhaps (and better hopefully) sometime down the road. Subtle lighting and a lot of dynamic things. Got about 8 characters in this area all doing useful things like - walking around, sitting at keyboard and typing, stopping and talking and giving instructions to player (FPSC lip sync) and the inevitable robot guard Long way to go to equate to this in GG at the moment but I am sure your tool will help.

I have a lot I could find to do anyway, updating and converting segments perhaps and much more not to mention waiting for GG progress so no worries. I was very glad to find your product to help. Thank you so much for your hard work on this. In reality if GG does not at some stage get to a position it can do all of the things you can see in this screen shot and mentioned by me above in relation to it and more its unlikely I will continue to attempt to rebuild these levels in earnest in GG as theres not much point if it cant be achieved by GG due to any limitations it has. Currently even the AI cant do anything at all including walk around here properly and without them and the rest of the dynamic elements and game play dynamics its just an empty shell and not worth the considerable (massive) effort.

I will leave you alone now. Taken up too much of your time, sorry.

Thanks again

Peter

Most of the shadow issues shown by Uman are probably down to the scale and poly count of 'welded' levels and segments which is why it would work best if segments were separate 'prefabs' which are rebuilt in GG, of course I haven't looked closely enough to make anything more than an educated guess but that's where most issues with shadows in GG lie.
It might be best to export your level in parts and snap these together to ensure shadows and collisions work as they should.

The issue with over stated normals and specs are simply down to the differences in the shader requirements between GG and FPSC where specular maps for instance should be far darker in GG so those brighter spec maps from FPSC produce a hugely exaggerated specular highlight. It looks like the normal map could be 'lowered' a fair bit as well, not sure this something you could fix in your app as it graphic and shader related.

What would work best in my opinion is for Lee to look at offering a way to adjust normal and specular highlights for individual entities on the fly. For the present you could dial the global specular way down and it should help a little in your current scene though looking at the normal exaggeration I doubt you will get it looking 'natural' enough with only doing this.
You could try darkening the _S a fair bit and that will work better.

Hi Mike,

UPDATE :

OK, looks like we have success. Whoppie.

See attached Screen Shot. Lighting success in GG and can be used with both Medium and Highest entity quality settings.

Not sure exactly what I had done altogether but works in this level. I will test same procedures out in some other levels to see if they all with light.

What I did. Place light "Marker" - took a lot of moving around and viewing in GG to get it to position anywhere near correctly as its almost impossible in GG to place a marker - every angle you look at it seems to be dynamically moving so in and out of top down and free flight and angles constantly. I seem to have to have it placed higher than one might think it need be.

Anyway could not see the marker entity lighting anything inside the level in Medium entity setting, so Change to high setting and the textures still go crazy - change back to medium setting and bake on level 3 lighting and the light appeared displaying in level. Change to Highest entity setting and all is good - no artifacts after the baking on setting 3 (lights)

Pre bake therefore seems to be necessary and must in this instance here as opposed to real time lighting?

I will test more levels and see if I can get results so I would hold up doing anything and spending too much time looking for a solution.

EDIT UPDATED :

Tried another level and it works. See attached screen shot. No lighting or shader issues now after level 3 baking. These lights are as placed with default marker settings so they are set as dynamic. If I change that to static after baking the light does not display. Not sure if GG has a limit on the number of these lights set as dynamic, but if so then that will be a problem as we need a lot of lights. Not tried baking a level with a light set as static before baking but I am guessing it wont work? or if it would show up if its setting is later changed to dynamic after baking. Either way a lot of lights will be needed in large indoor levels. Could be hundreds needed

Still I am happy to see the old FPSC levels in GG now and fps is really good at Medium quality setting currently albeit with many of the dynamic entities missing in the conversion. Performance seems to be better than I would get by creating these large complex levels directly in GG so the conversion - perhaps the welding makes a big difference, I don't know?




UPDATED :

I can confirm that at the moment I can only get dynamic lights to work on the converted level models. No luck with static lights baked or not on any quality setting.

@Rolfy: thanks for your comments. Yes I agree, will update the code so that the user can have the option to export out in chunks. regarding the normals, I'll see what I can do there to help. I spent part of last night playing around in Dark Shader and looking into some of the FPSC shaders and the DINS textures, some unfortunately don't work in GG at all even if I recompile using the current pixel/vertex shader version i.e. 3_0. I'll keep experimenting and see what i can do.

@Uman-thanks for your posts and the pics they look good and also the time and trouble testing your levels out-very much appreciated. I was also playing around with light markers (and shaders etc) and had the same problem in positioning them. The lighting side is definitely something I need to experiment more with in GG and play around with some test levels. Interesting that performance is better using FPSC levels maybe something to do with poly count? I'm not sure. For the levels, in the dBO files, they only contain the diffuse textures at the moment for both FPSC X9 and X10 (although the DNS textures for X10 get copied over to the GG area). So will be updating my code so that all DNS textures are included in the DBO files. I really want to be able to get the dynamic entities in for levels, as these are not contained in universe.db files but are mapped in later. So that will be fun to do (I think ).

I've now (finally) started fixing stuff. The first fix is the number of maximum parts/meshes that can be checked/ticked.
As a quick fix I've applied 27 boxes as a maximum that can be selected/deselected. If anyone finds that some FPS files contain more, please let me know.
For the save segment function, if the user presses the cancel button, the save is cancelled and the save button set back to "SAVE" and the status bar text displays "Save cancelled.". I'll see if I can get the dialog box to auto populate the filename with the default/original segment name or allow the user to press CTRL+V to paste the name in at the prompt.
After that I'll be starting to get the DINS textures in the DBO files for segments/levels should the user want to apply these as alternative to the D2 diffuse textures. It seems after some testing that some effects work in GameGuru and others don't so this will be a bit experimental.

Only static lights will bake shadows, static lights do not show in test level until after baking. If you are using dynamic lights they wont bake shadows and you are limited to 3-4 in range if you move around these will turn on/off as you approach them. Have you tried setting all dynamic lights to static before lightmapping to see if your shadows work properly Uman? You should only use dynamic sparingly and set further apart in areas of interest or at points where you want dynamic objects to be lit.

What I would normally do is have all lights static for a bake then change a few to dynamic where I want them, or you can even have a static and dynamic light in the same place so after baking you dont need to switch around. Static lights needs a wider range than dynamic so my own recommendation is to have a static light with a wide range and a dynamic light with a smaller range where you want dynamic, so you aren't constantly changing things out as you test and lightmap. These can even occupy the same space without interfering with each other and your baked shadows will still render just as they should.

Depending on how long you are willing to wait you can increase the shadow integrity and quality in the setup.ini just as you could in Classic

I dont know if it would be feasible to transfer the lightmapping over to GG from Classic along with your level, that might be something else that BOTR might get a kick out of looking into

If you are going to divide the level into 'chunks' then maybe culling will get the chance to work and help with performance, particularly for indoor levels. Currently if a level is a single 'chunk' or mesh then the entire level is always being rendered.

@Rolfy/Uman--I'll have another look into the lightmaps as I seem to remember I did play around with those but can't recall whether they worked in GG or not. I think it all looked awful in GG but I'll revisit this side again and see what happens to jog my memory.

The user can now cancel at the save dialog and CTRL+V (paste) the original filename into the dialog. I tried another dialog box where I could prepopulate the filename but for some reason is a bit unstable and kept crashing the tool. Will toy around with this again, but for now want to concentrate on the texture and level chopping out in chunks side and see how well it works.

@Uman-some great screenshots-somehow missed the training1-4 pics , look great....

Thanks all for the replies and updates.

Tried a converted level where no lights had been placed previously, placed one static light and bake and that worked, however don't now seem to be able to get any static light to render upon baking in any level that was baked with a dynamic light in it first. 3 levels.

No worries. Probably would need to delete all and start from scratch with new conversions and see if that would work. At the moment I wont do anymore until updates to the tool and GG as GG may change again, and again perhaps in how lights/lightmapping and so on works and mess anything done up anyway later. Who knows.

I was just doing some testing and hopefully helping but perhaps not.



Would look a lot better if they were the same as those inside FPSC with the same total objects and dynamics and of course the lighting.

To be honest the levels were never completed in FPSC either - I gave up on them due to performance issues by and large and at various stages other FPSC issues.

Over the years it's driven me insane - more than once...

Still would love to get them into GG and develop them (and more levels) to a finish but doubt it will ever happen. I can't see GG ever having what I need or I will be long dead before it does. Personally I find It's also much harder to work with than FPSC and achieve the same and FPSC was hard enough, despite what some would say.

GG of course has the great outdoors and most of my game levels need outdoors despite the indoor screen shots you have seen which are part of the first 4 or 5 levels at start of the game. (Just a warm up). If I ever got those start levels complete I would be happy.

@Uman-many thanks for your testing and help I certainly have found your feedbck very helpful.... cheers again

Thanks,

Pleased to be of some little assistance.

played around with various stuff last night and a bit this morning i.e. DNS texturing and dynamic entities. So now I can read in a list of the entities that exist for a testlevel or built level, the hard part is going to be getting them exported across to GG along with the x,y,z coords as the universe.dbo doesn't export dynamic entities. It looks like FPSC loads in and positions these entites during the test game process. This will be challenging...time to get the grey cells into shape

I have been playing around more with what I've got so far.

I have moved over some of my FPSC Entities into GG and been placing some of them e.g. animated doors, window glass, and a few other other things. Placing them in the converted FPSC levels inside GG is a relatively easy process once you get the hang of the best method to control the positioning so at the end of the day the tool is great even if placing missing entities manually. Much easier than doing everything in GG I would think where every object would need precise placing and alignment.

Doors I am just using my FPSC ones without punch or frame element as they are not needed the converted level already having the frame and hole in wall ready to accept a door. Same for windows exactly - I am just moving my glass entity across from FPSC and placing in place in GG where the frame and hole in wall is waiting for it. Works very well.

Other dynamic entities I can move across, place and then apply any script I want in GG - AI or other.

One can basically take the fpe files (textures and so on) from FPSC and just amend needed fpe code (very little) to use in GG.

My main prob is still getting Static lights to work, bake and render on screen to affect the scene (at all).

Attached is a screen shot of another level - floating space station. Effectively this is an outdoor scene with a lot of indoors too. This has one light placed near the door to the top left of view. Scene is backed but as static the light does not display so here it is set to dynamic. Note that the nice shadows and lighting here in the scene are presumably as a result of the "Sun" influence following baking and not any kind of placed lights as said as the single one existing as said does nothing when static. At least not as far as the viewer is concerned as it can never be seen if static. Moving around the scene there are shadows cast for everything from this Suns influence - correctly in the outdoor areas. You can see this in the second screen shot. Clearly there are shadows and light areas but the level entity is only lit from the Suns angle/perspective/position I believe, as you can see and elsewhere there are no such lighting effects or shadows. The AI enemy by the way is not much use apart from shooting the player as is stuck on a single tile where placed and cannot move around (position frozen to the spot) at all due to GG AI restrictions.

Personally I am not quite sure really whats going on with the lights exactly as yet but will keep trying later down the road.

cool-love the pics thanks for sharing ....out of interest how long does it take the tool to process a very large level that you have? Thanks for all your testing and feedback this is very helpful. I am thinking of ways to get the dynamic entities brought in GameGuru and placed in the right place....ideas and processes in my head and hoping it will be possible now I can access the list of level entities and read in other element data associated with those entites.... this is getting exciting
THanks for trying with the lights I'm sure there is a reason somewhere it's not my area of expertise unfortunately so Im not sure why static lights are not working.

I have one existing level in FPSC which is the biggest I have that I have not tested with the tool due to the fact that it was new to me and to be honest I am afraid to try it it's massive covering the whole of the FPSC world from end to end plus I am not sure maybe rooms spreading over 7 levels high and on top of that crammed full of static and dynamic entities.....

It comprises the whole of the First train/tube station/west1 level plus the training mission level where in game its design combined in slightly different and the player can choose to take the training mission or skip it all from one level. Both of the levels/West1/Training levels and the combined one are far larger/more extensive and detailed/complex than you can tell from the few screen shots . So much so as I said I had to split the combined level into two levels to help with performance.

I will have a go at the biggest level if you like and it don't crash your tool and see what happens. I will note the number of parts is says it comprises of and the time it takes to do its stuff. Then if OK if it ports to GG and how it affects performance therein if that would be helpful to you?

Wish me luck

Peter

@Uman-definitely would love to know if the tool copes as I set the static universe to the maximum which is the whole FPSC max universe size so in theory it should be ok. Would love to know if you get it into GG ok and what performance issues you have, definitely would be very helpful.
many thanks again -good luck hope it works keeping my fingers crossed

Hi Mike,

I just wrote a longer post and lost it so here's the short version again

Can you help and confirm what I should use as settings in the Game Compile in FPSC :

Textures/Lightmaps : Full

Shaders : Full

Does it matter at all?

This may well be relevant to me for compilng the biggest FPSC level I have which may exceed the 1.8 mb 32 bit mem limit in FPSC and may also have effect upon static lights displaying inside GG as far as I would know?

Currently I compile with Full Shaders Off in FPSC. The largest level I have compiles at 1586mb in FPSC with the Shaders off so turning them on may well exceed the limit above and kill FPSC during the compile process

I will try it without first perhaps and then turn them on if its a requirement of the tool?

Peter

@Uman-the tool doesn't rely on any of the settings. I usually turn shaders off and textures full and the tool doesn't use lightmaps in any way. Also I make sure there is no automatic floor. If the build exceeds 1.8 then maybe try with textures on low.
Thanks again for trying this out and for your time doing it.

Hi Mike,

Quickly, It's converted...

I will get back to you with the stats once I have it in GG and can give a full overview and screen shot.

Peter

@Uman-wow that's great......can wait to see screenshot and stats.

I now have all the information I need for all dynamic entites including map placement variables, including markers, triggers, lights, doors, enemies etc. This is great, now the only problem that lies ahead is how to get these imported into GameGuru with the level and to re-attach them to the level.
I'm away this weekend until Sunday afternoon so I will have to carry on a bit tonight and late afternoon Sunday.
Still it's a bit more progress

Hi Mike,

OK, Sorry I have been a long while here if you have been waiting for this - had some other stuff called me away.

Anyway as is the case with game making and FPSC/GG some wild, wonderful and weird things go on

I did not have a problem with the tool converting and getting this into GG itself - your tool works well.

Stats :

In FPSC the level here in test run at size 1586mb. No lights existed in the level in this one. Though lightmapping was on.
IN FPSC Inside level at test run game play fps is 60 fps. (No Shaders) Some interesting comparisons to follow for anyone interested.
FPSC Compiled (level) Game - Universe.dbo is 28.6mb. Full Game Folder size 54.4mb. (Textures used are relatively small)

Conversion with your tool.......
Open No Problem.
Import Time : 3min
Number of objects/parts : 2104
Rebuild Time : 10min
Save/Export Time : 1min

That I believe totals 14 minutes to convert and get out to the GG folder.

Now the interesting bit Getting into GG.

Takes almost as long as your tool to just launch GG and place into GG then player set up and so on, including zone to tun off terrain and alike.
Inside GG the object works fine as far as your tool conversion goes of course. I do notice some glitches as mentioned previously. I see some entities (a few only) with missing or incorrectly mapped textures. e.g. Platforms (underneath platforms - a transparency on textures or normals issue perhaps) and have seen some incorrectly mapped textures on sci-fi chairs.
I turn off all unwanted Extras and Eye Candy, so have a minimal quality and performance drain on the game. I have only the Entity setting set above lowest at medium setting so (hopefully) lights will work and display.

Now Lights and Baking. I place 4 static lights in this new level and bake on level 3 Lightmapping..........and what do I get? well a light mapped level with 4 lights displaying of course. Yes! - Well Yes and No? All works fine and the lights display fine after baking that is until - yes you guessed it. After having tested the level and saved the level all still works fine and the lights (static) display as they should, however the issue if you guessed is that following closing of the level if you reopen it the lights have disappeared (dont display ever again) and that seems to be the issue perhaps. Somehow they are not being recreated once the level is closed and the level is unlit thereafter - unless you change the lights thereafter back to dynamic so it seems GG is not writing the bake/lighting info in a way the editor can save it with the level save option?

Now that's a gutter when you consider that before I closed the level I had the sense to first compile the game in GG as a stand alone .exe as I thought that was worth a go see what happens and Yes you guessed it again, in the Compiled .exe the Static Lights have been saved out correctly and display fine. There is clearly a difference here between Editor test run and compiled result. And not a helpful difference. No lightmaps being saved in Editor is not helpful as whatever you do in carefully setting up maybe hundreds of lights or how much hard work you put in getting your lighting just right they wont appear again once you close your editor level session. In a level like this you would never set up all your lighting in one session even if you left it to the last thing to be done. The level is just too big to do that.

Moving on the last thing I guess is the all important Yes again you guessed - the performance tests.....

Remember in FPSC this level was running in test mode run I said at 60fps and that included additionally all of the many dynamic entities - amounting to some hundreds, scripts, and AI characters throughout the level - though I did have my Entities Load and Unload entities on the fly scripts working which may have helped performance.

This level combines both my west1 and training levels which together although only occupy a small area of the GG world still is a fairly complex level even with all the dynamics and FPSC content missing. If you look at the Attached Screen shots you can see even with all that's not been brought across from FPSC the fps in GG is less than in FPSC so one wonders how GG would cope with all the extra content and dynamics - leave alone AI characters, game play mechanics and drain. I am reaching only about 49-54 fps here (around 50-100fps less than when the levels were separated) so this level is about at the limit or already beyond I would say what my system can push GG to achieve at least. I doubt very much whether i could use this level add to it much more and maintain adequate game play performance personally. Remember in GG I already have almost every setting turned off or at lowest except the entity quality set at medium so I have nothing more to save performance with. No water, No terrain, no anything This level object is pushing GG already and the object itself is well empty except for itself. Had I had the inclination as its the only way to find out I could add to it but think I would find very soon myself getting down to 30fps or less very quickly so no point.

Could be that the one entity is just to big and complex and one needs smaller levels in GG. Could be breaking it into pieces may help though I doubt it would be enough. Who Knows.

Anyway I think that's more than enough as much is speculation other than what we see as fact

I have attached some screen shots. First is the FPSC map (object) in GG from perspective so you can get some idea of the object involved.

Hope that helps.

Great News on your progress by the way. Have a good weekend.

Peter

It's going to be a full on porting solution very soon by the look. the current version works well for anyone reading who is undecided on if they should buy, Cheers.

Yes great tool.

@Uman-thanks again for the screenshots/stats-I can probably speed up the import/rebuild process. If you use the goindoors.lua script, does that increase the FPS rate much when the player triggers it? I really think that in GameGuru the user should be able to reduce the size of the terrain, it would certainly increase FPS. Is great to see the tool stretched to it's limits with a large size level. It's a shame there was some miss-texturing, I'll look into my code and see if there is anything odd in my code. Thanks for the positive comments.

@Cybernescence-thanks for the comments and positive support, ver y much appreciated.. Im hoping I'm going in the right direction with the development of the software.

thanks again to all that have purhased so far it really is very rewarding to see the tool is providing some help in game development for GameGuru.

Hi Mike,

I also turn off the terrain inside the GG setting sliders, just as with veg and all other unwanted settings. As far as I can tell disabling terrain completely via the goindoors script via trigger zone just hides the terrain completely but makes no difference I can see to the fps at all so as long as you turn off terrain in editor settings that's the best you can do.

The mis texturing thing is no big deal and strange that only some entities may do this. I guess its something to do with the original model and mapping which you won't be able to do anything about. Some of the platforms which don't render their textures on the undersides may be other issue related and again nothing to do with your tool perhaps.

I hope that you and everyone else don't think I am complaining here as I have nothing but praise for the tool and your work here. Just trying to test and help as I am so impressed with it in fact....

Well worth the cost and more just to covert individual FPSC segments, never mind the convert whole level ability which is a massive bonus as is. If you did no more to it - its more than worth the asking price right now so I agree anyone need some help all round building in GG they should get this tool and FPSC....Fantastic tool right now.

The lighting thing may be just my end. No idea if anyone else is finding any difficulty with converted levels and static lights showing up in GG and it could well be me and my own levels. I don't know....

I will continue on and try and track down the reason given my capability and understanding which is not a great deal

I can say I have just tried out of placing and rendering/baking two static lights in a GG level created in GG with bespoke entity models made by me - plus some FPSC sci-fi corridor segments which I converted with your tool and placed in the level too. One light in my models, One light in your FPSC converted segments. Then bake on mode 3 and the static lights work fine. Close the level and re-open and the lights still work so this is different to the other complete large FPSC converted levels that I have been testing. No real idea why they should be different except for size and complexity...but like you said earlier - I will have some more head scratching to do

I am still working on static lights - Inside the training level I have a static light - it does not work as described previously - disappears after closing level following baking.....

I place some converted segments outside the main level object on the terrain - place a light - bake - it works perfectly.

I place a static "yellow" light "Under" part of the main level object near the terrain - bake - it works perfectly - however it only seems to illuminate two of the outside, side wall, of the main level object, whilst the terrain itself and the floor above does not seem to render the light at all so it only reflects on the two side and not above or below itself.... See attached screen shot which shows this.....

Thus to date no static light working correctly "inside" the main converted level object which will remain following saving and closing of the level....

All very different behaviours with different static lights in the same level.

I will do more discovery yet. Not quite given up.

Peter

@Uman - If your testing your level with entity quality setting to lowest, you might want to try increasing this to highest as I remember this has a bearing on the lighting of models. I'm guessing you've already tried this but just a thought.

@Bored of the Rings - It might be easier to incorporate the universe lightmaps generated by FPSC into your tool as that will probably be more reliable. It would be worth contacting Lee to see if there is anything in the GG engine that would prevent lighting from being saved correctly with imported levels.

Ideally you want imported FPSC maps to work with GG's lighting but using the FPSC lightmaps would be a good tactical solution or option until Lee implements the new deferred rendering expected this year.

Hi Mike,

Just a quick update to say that I have now got Static lights working - though after a fashion given GG's discrepancies with lights and its light mapper having some issues.

I will be more specific if you need more info but for now I attach two screen shots of static lights rendering in GG over a converted level....

Whatever - can be done - does work once you know how but is far from easy or ideal. So messy in GG its not true.

Nomad,

You are probably correct no doubt as currently GG is erratic - well not so much erratic but confused to say the least.

In fact I am using Medium Entity settings inside GG - though the static lights actually render both in editor and compiled game .exe once compiled and display even in lowest settings.

Two screen shots are attached showing the static lights displaying from compiled level .exe and this is the .exe using the lowest graphics settings.

: -)

@Uman/Nomad Soul-wow, thanks again for your feedback, pics, input and praise for the tool, it's certainly made my morning. I will definitely be continuing to look into various aspects such as revisiting bringing in the lightmaps from FPSC as I have played around with those before but was quite some time ago now. Good idea about contacting Lee, I'll see if he can shed some light (pun not intended ) regarding GG and the saving of lights with imported levels. There are probably some small tweaks I can apply also to objects which I also need to look at. Will have to start prioritising my work load as there is tons to do but enjoying every minute I spend on working on the code and improving, the good thing is I can now access/read in all the FPSC files I need to and use that information for further development.

Current list of things to do but not limited to (in no particular order):

bring in DNS textures (as a user option)
bring in lightmaps (and test to see if they work in GG as I can't recall)
break the level into chunks (also as a user option?)
look into object normals/shadow settings?
allow user to change segment textures
display images of each segment part/mesh (so user can see visually what they are selecting-this will def mean GUI overhaul)
GUI revamp (not sure what everyone makes of the current GUI)
continue development of Segment Editor
importing Dynamic entities (got all info now the challenge is to get them across to GG and re-attach to the level-wish I could talk to GG ha )
add/improve Punch/Weld tool (e.g. easier positioning of CSG mesh and object and anything else I can think of)
not sure about a construction kit as TGC will be working on the Easy Building Editor.
allow user to bring in segments that have a CSG punch attached (e.g. windows etc, currently tool attaches the punch to those)
any fixes/improvements (code and features)

there are probably other things that I haven't mentioned in the list but I think those are the main ones.
The main challenges has definitely been with texturing and file paths, but I think it's been worth it. The biggest challenge ahead will be the Dynamic Entites, am keeping positive with this one.

Please feel free to mention anything that you feel is missing or frustrating, I'm open to new suggestions.
Will be back Sunday (at some point)
Have a good weekend all.

ok I've not quite gone away yet ha
I have done a quick test in fragmotion on my theory stuff and tested out a quick test level that has just a door frame (not very exciting-I hear you say ha ) but I load the level in Fragmotion and then getting the XYZ coords from my other test program I used these to place the matching Dynamic Door and it fits onto the universe/level perfectly. I'll upload a short video to show you what I mean. This looks positive and I will do further testing with other dynamic entities and see what happens. This will all be amazing if it all works...so fingers crossed......this is getting quite exciting

Hi Mike,

EDITED :

Removed the previous post content of yesterday as the good news is that after a night with the computer turned off and reboot today, fire up GG and load level, I have my static lights intact. Seems like the various GG memory issues and failing to update the map lighting as you go until complete system shutdown and reboot may be the issue, Whatever, I now have static lights correctly displaying so thought I should let you know before you waste any more time on that/

See attached screen shot of this morning with all looking good. You can see in the shot - this being an underground tube station I have added the electric train rails back in manually from FPSC which look nice and well "electric". Now I am here if I get time I may move all the other missing entities back in here manually from FPSC, and more lighting, a bit of repairing where the conversion missed things and see how the level then all looks. Dont ask how long moving and placing the electric rail entities took as they are single tile FPSC width entities so a lot placed joined together and GG editor is the worlds worst at placing and aligning together lots of small entities like this and still needs much work getting them right which I will meed to all over again another time. This entity placement work is the greatest nightmare on earth in GG and only for those of a strong constitution and heart........

Thank goodness for your wonderful tool which brings in the main level from FPSC as one single piece or I would never attempt building these levels inside GG itself as it would beat me hands down !!

Thanks again for the Tool. Fantastic help.

Peter

@Uman-thanks for your post and pic which looks great. That's fab news about the static lights, seems like GG is doing some strange things. I'm hoping that I find a way of placing the dynamic entities into GG along with the static level so that users don't have to spend ages manually adding them back in....hopefully there is a solution some ideas floating in my head which I hope turn to reality..... thanks again for testing the tool and all the feedback it has helped me a lot....

just a small tweak this morning with the FPSC level camera. You can now move the camera up/down so you can align the level up correctly when taking a snapshot for the thumbnail. Not sure why I didn't do this before, anyway seems better now and you can walk around the level if you wish. in addition, you can now use the 'Q' key to quit the level showcase window.
Will probably apply some small fixes/changes. I think before doing any of the hard stuff, I'm going to add code to allow changing of textures for the single segment parts/meshes and review the current functionality of the tool for the different areas and see what needs improving/adding etc.

Added a "Change Part Texture" button which is linked at the moment to the "Parts:" up/down gadget and started to add in the function code so hopefully soon all being well should be able to change textures for each mesh that makes up a segment. Found some other minor issues on the FPSC X10 side but should be relatively simple to fix. While I'm doing these fixes/updates it's giving me a chance to think more about the dynamic entity side and other areas that I want to expand on such as the Segment Editor and Punch/Weld tool etc.

the "change part texture" preliminary code is now in place and the basics work but not yet perfected, still needs some tweaking. added code to the punch/weld tool so that the texturing is copied over to GameGuru i.e. the DBO file contains the "texture\<texturename>.dds" filepath\filename structure. code will also be added to create the FPE/BMP file as usual. This will then automate the punch/weld process allowing the user to go straight into GG and select the newly created entity without having to manually create any of the standard files.