Product Chat / Have your say May 2014

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 2nd May 2014 09:55 Edited at: 3rd May 2014 10:43
Hi,



Welcome to May: Have your say for Beta 1.006



As a reminder, the aim every month, is to create a list of bugs and a list of concerns so we can address them. I'll get the bugs from the bug forum or from reports sent to me, so please keep posting those on the bugs forum. In addition please keep this thread free from feature requests, there's a forum for that too. However what I would like to hear about in this thread are concerns and issues you have with current features.



Thanks to some very hard work from the development team, we've had very few issues with the latest beta, but those that have been reported are listed below with a current status.



Enjoy the new beta.



Issues.



1) Blank editor screen for a small number of users. - Fixed for next Beta - If you have a blank editor in V1006 you have to hit Tab 1 or 2 times and it fixes it



2) Two users report no or intermittent player firing sounds. - Being investigated.



3) Edit entities doesn't work when in test mode (F9). - Fixed for next Beta



4) Videos not working in story zone.

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BarZaTTacKS
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Posted: 2nd May 2014 20:20 Edited at: 2nd May 2014 20:27
1) If you have a blank editor you have to hit Tab 1 or 2 times and it fixes it.



I think v1.006 is really allowed me to take the next step in making my game concept. I enjoy being able to increase my learning with each update and plan to continue to do so throughout this whole experience.



Right now I believe the focus is in the right direction so I can only offer small fixes.



My #1 suggestion right now is to add the ability to move around in a 360 view for when in top down editing mode. It is really hard to line things up in the current view and it really expands the amount of detail that one can put in a game.



Additionally I noticed that when you load a game in the editor the skybox goes back to default requiring me to switch it every time I load a save.



I do not know if it is just on my end but it seems the walking noise and the jumping noise is much louder than any ambient sound or sound in general I put in. I would like to either have it normalized or a setting to adjust each sound. (I feel this is something for the future)



I cannot think of anything else off the top of my head right now and I look forward to the next beta.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 2nd May 2014 20:42 Edited at: 2nd May 2014 20:42
Quote: "1) If you have a blank editor you have to hit Tab 1 or 2 times and it fixes it"




Yes, we were actually aware of that and I'd forgotten, so thanks for the reminder.

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shakyshawn8151
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Posted: 5th May 2014 21:31
Here is 2 bug which are stopping me and putting me back in the contest.



1. Placed Colt Pistol on a map I made. Tested it in test mode and it worked fine

Then I made a standalone for my testers, they all said that the pistol that worked in test, is not picking up in Standalone, they hear the pistol pick up sound, but it will now show up no matter what, I have also confirmed this, and checked the logs, and it is showing the pistol loading in fine.





2. When I place down a story marker on the map and add an audio to it, (I use it for sound effects as it seems like the only way to get them to work) I can hear them fine in test mode, but when I make a standalone they are gone and not working.
Imchasinyou
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Posted: 5th May 2014 22:07
Quote: "2. When I place down a story marker on the map and add an audio to it, (I use it for sound effects as it seems like the only way to get them to work) I can hear them fine in test mode, but when I make a standalone they are gone and not working. "


Try the sound zone. I think its meant more for what your wanting. This can be used for a continious loop of music as well but its pretty loud. Not much for a background thing.



I think Lee stated you can use the sound zone, select the music lua file for the MAIN and then select the ambient sound/music.



I think story zones are for meant for between levels (when they are possible).

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wizard of id
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Posted: 6th May 2014 13:15
Some thing I notice is that FPSC map editor is only a single threaded app, there is a performance difference between entity and terrain painting modes.Thought light map calculations shaders and all changes are in realtime which allows for a quick built.



However there are some items like shaders and fog among other things which generally doesn't take up a large % of built time that FPSC map editor can do without and actually do that during the build process, it would vastly speed up FPSC map editor in general. Showing Idle animation or the animation of vegetation in the FPSC map editor is it really necessary ?.



I see the during the build process is when AI obstacles are calculated is it not possible to add that in realtime ?
Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 6th May 2014 19:36 Edited at: 6th May 2014 19:36
Quote: "Additionally I noticed that when you load a game in the editor the skybox goes back to default requiring me to switch it every time I load a save."






Same here, along with all the visual setting tweaks and grass. Gotta adjust them every time I load a saved map. They do get saved in the executable, though.

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almightyhood
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Posted: 6th May 2014 19:40
yep had this for along time now, actually gets annoying to reset ALL settings of a level after loading . also getting me down is the lack f ability to pick smething up thats inside a building, i have had to stop on a project because its really hard to do this without moving the whole building out and restarting.

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TattieBoJangle
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Posted: 6th May 2014 20:23
Quote: "the lack f ability to pick smething up thats inside a building"




Man this is annoying i hope this isnt the case in 1.7.





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tomjscott
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Posted: 6th May 2014 20:36
Quote: "2. When I place down a story marker on the map and add an audio to it, (I use it for sound effects as it seems like the only way to get them to work) I can hear them fine in test mode, but when I make a standalone they are gone and not working."




I just tried standalone mode myself and saw the same issue. In checking the folders for the standalone game I discovered that none of my custom audio files were there. So I think the issue is basically a bug that isn't transferring all the required files. You can workaround this by copying your audio files over to the standalone audiobank folder manually.
Imchasinyou
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Posted: 6th May 2014 21:18
Quote: "Quote: "the lack f ability to pick smething up thats inside a building"



Man this is annoying i hope this isnt the case in 1.7."




I cant agree more guys. Ive screwed up alot of stuff trying just to have to start that area all over

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almightyhood
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Posted: 6th May 2014 21:22
Quote: "I just tried standalone mode myself and saw the same issue. In checking the folders for the standalone game I discovered that none of my custom audio files were there. So I think the issue is basically a bug that isn't transferring all the required files. You can workaround this by copying your audio files over to the standalone audiobank folder manually. "




yeah tell me about it.. didn't figure it out till tattiebojangle mentioned it to me on my 1st standalone game demo lol.. thanks again tattie m8

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Steohl72
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Posted: 7th May 2014 13:25 Edited at: 7th May 2014 13:25
I´m a bit supprised that the lack of the ability to pick something up that's inside a building it not solved yet as it's VERY annoying and time demanding.



Please fix to 1.007.
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BarZaTTacKS
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Posted: 7th May 2014 14:56
@Steohl72 I agree, I bet we would feel the issue a lot less with an undo button but its really disappointing when you spend a bunch of time lining something up only to accidentally select it and have it pop up to default height etc.
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almightyhood
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Posted: 7th May 2014 15:15
my main problem is items popping out of position when ontop of something, mainly it happens with smaller items. for example I put a shotgun on a chair and it floats a foot or so above, I used some carrots on a plat and each 1 was floating above the plate in a stair like fashion... an undo button would be good but to be able to pick the items up in 2d or 3d mode would really save a lot of redoing work.

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Meows
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Posted: 7th May 2014 16:50
Well I was all excited about the contest. However every story I attempted to put to use in Reloaded has failed..



You would think a small river with a stock 12 sections of bridge would work..

Actually it worked fine but when I put a masked bandit on it to guard it.

the computer froze and had to do a hard reset..

7 times now hard resets.. and too many to count ctrl esc's,



I added some flat rocks to make caves.. for the Bandit's ,, they worked 4 times and locked up the computer the 5th test.



I think this contest is for the core group of builders that have the inside scoop on how everything works and the limitations that exist with this build.



Trying to get back into LUA but without any comments in any of the current offerings it is beating your head against the wall.



Reloaded has a ways to go but I like it. I just can't use it for what I want to do yet.

tomjscott
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Posted: 7th May 2014 16:55 Edited at: 7th May 2014 21:35
Quote: "I think this contest is for the core group of builders that have the inside scoop on how everything works and the limitations that exist with this build."




I don't think that's true. Aside from a couple of quick and dirty test that took me an hour or so when this beta first started, I just started using Reloaded less than a week ago and I've already gotten very far with actual gameplay elements. Yes, there are limitations, but I've learned to work around them so far.



As far as crashes, I don't think your situation is typical. Aside from any mistakes I've made in LUA scripting, I haven't had a single editor crash yet and I've worked almost a week now for very long hours on some pretty detailed levels. Crashes like you're seeing are typically caused by bad video or even sound drivers. You should check that you have the latest drivers for everything in your system.
almightyhood
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Posted: 7th May 2014 17:14
well i have had only 1 or 2 crashes aswell as the above it was lua scripting mostly or a memory fail at some number location, but that was on a fully used level i made with far to many animated plants and tree's., also i am very unused to making games with reloaded.the amount of time i have used on a level only to screw it up and have to restart has i guess granted me some practice but not nearly enough to count myself good or anything.

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BarZaTTacKS
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Posted: 8th May 2014 14:34
I just want to add that while there are limitations in the engine currently it is totally possible to create right now. I have almost zero previous experience with game making and I am able to (with the help of the forums and reverse engineering scripts I find) I can make a pretty cool gaming demo concept. It is nothing I would sell at the moment but definitely better than anything I have created game wise before.
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almightyhood
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Posted: 8th May 2014 17:16
cool man, yeah I agree this version is a lot better for creating something with compared to older versions, we just need the store in full swing with assets to use and with 07 lua and ai being the focus we should be good to go for starting projects that are more long term.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 8th May 2014 18:42
Is the 12th May still the release day for Beta 1007 ?
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 8th May 2014 23:03
I cannot confirm the release date, but I can confirm it is not the 12th (looked at our internal deadline document) I think finer grain editing controls will come thick and fast after the AI and scripting has been mastered.

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BarZaTTacKS
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Posted: 9th May 2014 03:46
I have a question, is the 1.007 part of the "Regular Cadence Alphas build"? It does not matter too much but I would just like to understand the diff between when we are getting an alpha monthly release or the 3rd month beta release.



Reference : http://fpscreator.thegamecreators.com/order.php



"- Regular Cadence Alphas builds are expected to be at least once a month.

- Beta builds are expected to be every 3 months."



Thank you and I look forward to the comp at the end of the month. It will be nice to see everyone's creations!
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 9th May 2014 09:11
V1007 will be a full beta release. The team have been working very hard on this one, and as a result we hope to be able to bring you a this beta earlier than previously thought. However, as Lee says, we've not got a fixed date yet.



SC

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wizard of id
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Posted: 9th May 2014 09:51 Edited at: 9th May 2014 10:04
Okay guys this an appeal to attempt to recreate the problem so lee has some thing to work with, save crash error, is causing major problems on my side.



Could you kindly do the following steps and report back if you get a save error as well.





Step 1: Create a Large terrain with lots of different heights and angles ect.(Needs to be a detailed terrain Lots of polygons)



Step 2: Paint a fair bit of grass



Step 3: Add at least 80 to a 100 trees evenly spaced



Step 4:Save as test map (Generally some time might crash here so save often and save before adding trees0



Step 5: Add a start marker.



Step 6: Enter 3D mode



Step 7: Use F9 use page up or page down to raise or lower the player.(Don't exit F9 while in 3D mode, if you die or some thing start again, your results may be different)



Step 8: Remove some of the terrain grass with a terrain tool if your grass is hanging in mid air it's perfect.



Step 9 : Lower or raise some trees with the terrain tools



Step 10: While still in F9 edit mode and raised a fair bit above the terrain exit 3d mode, and try to save your level.( At this point it should crash when you try to save)



Kindly report back in the below thread

By pressing tab two bars are of interest (draw calls should be at least 415 and polygons around 550K then you have re created similar crash scenario to me)



http://fpscrforum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=208476&b=6&p=0



forgot to add this what my setting look like in game



science boy
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Posted: 9th May 2014 18:09
is it only me who has a problem with lights in 1006. they were great in 1005 but 6 seems to have the lights not working just a bit of colour added

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tomjscott
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Posted: 9th May 2014 18:23
Quote: "is it only me who has a problem with lights in 1006. they were great in 1005 but 6 seems to have the lights not working just a bit of colour added"




Can you define "not working"? They seem to be fine for me so I'm not sure what's not working.
Scene Commander
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Posted: 10th May 2014 08:37
Quote: "is it only me who has a problem with lights in 1006. they were great in 1005 but 6 seems to have the lights not working just a bit of colour added"




I've tested this in V1007 pre alpha and they seem fine to me. I don't have V1006 installed at the moment as we're in deep into testing but I don't remember there being a problem. Could you describe the issue a little more.



Thanks,



SC

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Posted: 10th May 2014 15:26 Edited at: 10th May 2014 15:34
Quote: "I've tested this in V1007 pre alpha and they seem fine to me. I don't have V1006 installed at the moment as we're in deep into testing but I don't remember there being a problem. Could you describe the issue a little more.



Thanks,



SC"


I think he might be referring to it's not really doing any thing, doesn't create shadows, light intensity is pretty much the same regardless of editing...In other words lights is not "working" as it simply isn't working, although it's there.....
tomjscott
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Posted: 10th May 2014 16:11
Quote: "I think he might be referring to it's not really doing any thing, doesn't create shadows, light intensity is pretty much the same regardless of editing...In other words lights is not "working" as it simply isn't working, although it's there....."




Confirmed. I played with this a little and it's even worse than that. If you turn main light source all the way off and just place your own light in the scene you can see an additional problem. All the objects cast shadows, but only as if they are being lit by the main light source, which should no longer be affecting the scene at all. You can see the objects due to the custom light, but no shadows except for the phantom ones by the main light that is turned off. I've tried with both dynamic and static ligh settings.
Scene Commander
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Posted: 11th May 2014 12:51
Hi,



The lights are a WIP and do not currently affect shadows. We are obviously aware that this will need to be addressed but felt that users would prefer a fast engine with good AI first. As you know, we do listen to oyu all and if users feel this is a priority we can push it further up the work list.



SC

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Imchasinyou
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Posted: 11th May 2014 17:56
Speaking of updates, are there any plans to just update the engine as we go instead of removing and installing the latest version?

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 11th May 2014 21:47
P.S. We have not changed dynamic lights in any way I also agree there is plenty more work to do with dynamic lights concerning shadows and interior spaces. Best to use them for highlights with the current version! Each update changes A LOT of files, not just the engine so to provide just the executable would probably crash. Only when we are well underway with the engine in a solid, tried and tested state might we get to the point where a simple executable patch can be deployed.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 11th May 2014 22:12
Quote: "P.S. We have not changed dynamic lights in any way I also agree there is plenty more work to do with dynamic lights concerning shadows and interior spaces. Best to use them for highlights with the current version! Each update changes A LOT of files, not just the engine so to provide just the executable would probably crash. Only when we are well underway with the engine in a solid, tried and tested state might we get to the point where a simple executable patch can be deployed."
No point in rushing dynamic light sources any ways considering that AI collision doesn't work, indoor environments would be pretty pointless any ways.



However that said Lee, do have some thing you should dot down when you start working on AI and player collision, Certain merged meshes exported, is having having issues in the engine where by they can't be enter in, the actual polygon collision goes wonky irrespective of collision mode chosen.



It other words should I create my complete level in a 3d editor, export as merged mesh with a single atlas texture, collision goes completely bonkers.In other words collision sees it as a single object, I don't think the current collision model takes into account that there is spaces in between the meshes even if there is only one mesh.Also found that collision on round objects is poor and actually results in performance issues.
Scene Commander
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Posted: 12th May 2014 07:49
Quote: "It other words should I create my complete level in a 3d editor, export as merged mesh with a single atlas texture, collision goes completely bonkers"




Currently, Reloaded isn't intended to work with entire meshes as levels. The AI certainly isn't, and even with V1007 they will find issues with it. The prefered method would be to create single elements and build your level in pieces.



SC

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Posted: 12th May 2014 09:32
Yes in its current state, however nothing wrong and pointing it out to lee, when he eventually gets around to collision to have a look at it.The point is single elements even the preferred method as you are saying isn't working.



However that said large mesh collision, should be looked at single elements isn't going to cut it with a map editor, having to slice up meshes AGAIN isn't going to cut it with a map editor 10 times the size of the original FPSC, it's barbaric and counter productive to say the least,the lacking ability to create even basic primitives and apply boolean operations to them from with in FPSC makes it worse, simply put pushing classic design principles again means spending countless hours in a 3d editor and not in reloaded.



I have already worked my magic and is completely able to export reloaded terrains and create meshes for reloaded with pin point accuracy. It means creating meshes for my own terrains and not limited to what the terrain can accommodate.



You have a winner on your hands, just don't stop short now and say, well there is no practical usage for that type of collision with FPSC.
Scene Commander
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Posted: 12th May 2014 11:13
Quote: "Yes in its current state, however nothing wrong and pointing it out to lee"




Indeed not.



I've just heard from Lee and he intends to look at improving entity collision for V1008.



SC

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Posted: 12th May 2014 12:01 Edited at: 12th May 2014 12:01
That would be a god send.It actually means I can get some testing done, on meshes what works and what doesn't, before the compo I was mostly sitting on my hands :p At least I have some thing to get up for in the morning for a short while any ways. My pitiful existence, would drastically improve with even the most basic AI entity collision. :p



I have to add, no rush there either collision needs to perfect nothing like collision in classic, I would go on a donkey kong rampage, knocking down all but children who gets is my way.



Would offer lee a brofist if he makes the collision system of my dreams, but I think he would appreciate it more if I use it to the fullest extend :p
Steohl72
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Posted: 12th May 2014 18:25
I think TGC should, at this stage,approach a more "good enough" mentality.

What I mean is that it seem like to much work is done to get things 110% perfect. At this level I don't care if collision or lights are not 100% perfect. I settle with 80%.



What I do care about is to get all basic funtions in place.



I want AI, I want script, I want water functionality, I want construction kit, etc etc.



When the basic functions are in place, then you could go back and fine tune everything to 110%.
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BarZaTTacKS
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Posted: 12th May 2014 18:44 Edited at: 12th May 2014 18:44
@steohl72 that seems to be one of the few viewpoints on how this engine should progress. I used to agree whole-hardheartedly that we should be going on a good enough mentality so that we can basically build our whole game "good enough" and then go throug
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Uman
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Posted: 12th May 2014 23:18
TGC have it right now by finishing things as best as can be at any given stage before moving on to introducing/adding more features. Indeed it is the approach which now is obviously paying some dividends.



Half or 80% finishing anything and purposefully moving on to other major item features and skipping things than can be fixed, should be or can be updated at each stage is a recipe for a mis mash of all and nothing which we have seen far to much of before. No you wont go back if you follow that approach - you will in fact just keep skipping more and more as time goes by if full control is not kept of the quality as you go. Eventually everyone will be asked or become used to a "That Will Do" policy.



Thank goodness those days seem to be eventually passed. We don't need to get back on the slippery slope with no hope of recovery as the speed of downwards gains momentum to eventual disaster.



None of us want to wait as many have been waiting a long time for and engine like Reloaded to reach its potential. It will come if patience is found. If not then the current interest in the product will die with the product.



Its easy to ease off on the current strength of commitment of TGC to ensure stringent quality control as far as is possible as they go now taking some precedence. Best to stick with that and get more dividends and not end up back in the land of where we were not long ago before such commitment was predominant.



Seems to me the current approach has as said begun to pay off in helping Reloaded gain some greater success. Stick with it and that should continue to improve and the result will be better for all and at the end of the day should ensure that Reloaded actually gets done faster not slower.



More success means more pledgers and supporters and faster development overall not slower.



As the saying goes you cant rush a good thing.



synchromesh
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Posted: 13th May 2014 00:58
Quote: "I want AI, I want script, I want water functionality, I want construction kit, etc etc.



When the basic functions are in place, then you could go back and fine tune everything to 110%. "




I want that to and once would have agreed ...However !!

We really don't want an ok classic or a dropped X10 again..



This time we want it right and once the engine and core is stable im sure this stuff will come in droves



Hopefully
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World Class Multimedia
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Posted: 16th May 2014 01:54 Edited at: 17th May 2014 04:12
The way they are doing it is much better. Past products have suffered from bugs that really hampered creating games - that could have been much more responsive and fun had the bugs been fixed.



If you allow bugs to stay, after hundreds of thousands of lines of new code, the old bugs get buried and new bugs make it worse. Better to squash bugs now and get it working 110% and THEN go on to the next feature set.



As a result of this approach, FPSCR is surprisingly stable for a pre-beta release and is a PLEASURE

YOU DREAM IT - WE CREATE IT!

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Imchasinyou
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Posted: 16th May 2014 22:10
Since the announcement thread is locked to comments and I hate to start a new thread, Ill state this here.



Why was the horror pack placed into separate folders? Id been much happier knowing that everythign was ina single folder and then if I choose to later, i could put things where they belong. I have a church in my scenery folder when it should have been in the buildings folder, I have stuff in other folders I dont feel fit that folder and I have YET to find the doors for the freaking church and asylum!



ANY HELP HERE guys? Any one know where they are. My library isnt as extensive as others Im sure BUT I cant find these things!

Case: Antec 900, Mobo: Asus Sabertooth 990FX, CPU: AMD T1100 Thuban 6 core @3300 ghz stock settings, COOLER: Thermaltake Frio, MEM: G Skill Ripjaws X series DDR 3 @ 1866 9-10-9-28, HDD: 2 Western Digital caviar Black 750 Gb set in RAID 0, GPU: Saphire HD 6950 flashed with 6970 bios, PSU: Corsair CX750M, MS: Cyborg Rat 7, KB: Logitec G510, OS: Windows 7 home premium 64 bit.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 16th May 2014 22:23
Ye I was expecting the same thing ... Like the Legacy pack....

Perhaps its to do with the individual items availability on the store and that's the way the pack had to be ?



Doesn't bother me to much though..
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BarZaTTacKS
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Posted: 16th May 2014 22:25
@Imchasinyou I feel the same way, I have what I call an attention problem and I find my self not able to find what I want and instead find things that will do until I accidentally find what I want and then Ill use it. I will forget my idea if I do not r
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TattieBoJangle
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Posted: 16th May 2014 22:25
The doors are in the Fixtures





PC SPECS: Windows 8 Pro 64-bit, Intel I7 (PASSMARK 9529) 4GHz CPU, Asus R9 3GB GPU (PASSMARK 6858) 32GB DDR3 MEM (PASSMARK 2842)
LeeBamber
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Posted: 16th May 2014 23:40
We did it this way to allow items to be found in a single category folder instead of sub-divided by genre/pack. We will be adding a new meta-data driven filter system in the next iteration of the entity library browser so you can group objects by pack, material, colour, download date, size, e.t.c. For the first version we opted for a 'single category folder' approach so for example when you want a character, you simply click Character, rather than click on seven pack folder to find a character that fits the game you are thinking of creating. Not ideal when the item is misclassified, so if you find items in the WRONG category, please let 'The Next' or 'Scene Commander' know about it as they can do something about it.

PC SPECS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, Intel Core i7 920 (PASSMARK:5008), NVIDIA Geforce 9600 GT GPU (PASSMARK:752) , 6GB RAM

Imchasinyou
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Posted: 16th May 2014 23:51
Thanks fpor the responses and thanks Lee for the attention to the matter. I still would like to see a single folder for any future packs released but Im sure im not the majority here so ill just deal with it. I get frustrated and then lose interest quickly when Im looking for something that should be so easy to find. My bank is all screwed up anyhow but this compounds it for me. I can sit here and try to go through the folders and move things but thats gonna take me hours and as stated, ill lose interest and or get frustrated OR the heathens will come bothering me and ill lose track of what i was doing. Ill trade some nice models for 2 hell bound girls 13 and 12 years old. they dont cook, they dont clean, they are very expensive and extremely annoying when they whine. . . .

Case: Antec 900, Mobo: Asus Sabertooth 990FX, CPU: AMD T1100 Thuban 6 core @3300 ghz stock settings, COOLER: Thermaltake Frio, MEM: G Skill Ripjaws X series DDR 3 @ 1866 9-10-9-28, HDD: 2 Western Digital caviar Black 750 Gb set in RAID 0, GPU: Saphire HD 6950 flashed with 6970 bios, PSU: Corsair CX750M, MS: Cyborg Rat 7, KB: Logitec G510, OS: Windows 7 home premium 64 bit.
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almightyhood
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Posted: 17th May 2014 00:03
i have to agree with imchasinyou 1 folder per pack would be nice.



so yes to a single location folder for horror assets please

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