Product Chat / Beta 4 Feedback

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Uman
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 03:08 Edited at: 21st Dec 2013 03:15
Beta 4 is out. First findings.



Good news is its performance is improved.



Bad news is it may be at the expense of I have a washout. See attached.



Seems like I don't seem to have any Shadows at all, nor does the Ambient light work so these have no impact on entities or the Terrain and the environment is just visually flat. This also impacts on the general brightness which is overly washed out as you can see the Ambient light setting having no effect. Ambient light only affects the water plane and not the Terrain.



Looks - well awful. Killed my developing dead so not much over Christmas for me.



In Editor a placed entity displays a shadow but when you run the level no shadows or lighting as outlined above.



rolfy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 03:23 Edited at: 21st Dec 2013 03:26
All shaders and shadows are at lowest setting by default, adjust these in test edit



What they have done here is pretty cool as you can now develop with speed and ease and crank up the eye candy when needed.



As for the huds I reckoned this would be a problem with screenshots for now, I thought Lee might have introduced the legacy screen capture from Classic but haven't had a chance to check it out. There appears to be no setuplevel for huds as yet so not sure how to remove these just yet, pretty sure there will be a way.
MK83
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 03:38
I have a GTX 260, and I think it runs a lot smoother than beta 3. I didn't see a problem with shadows. I did notice that hills that have been painted as rock, Look like they are supposed to with terrain set on highest and on lowest they are green covered in a lot of places. No biggie though. I will try to rebuild my country scene and see how it goes.

mk83 Productions



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rolfy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 03:41
To remove huds, remove the player marker
Uman
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 03:52
OK,



Looks like my panic is over. Reinstalled and played around and it seems to be settling down - its kind of a bit erratic to get it working but I think it seems I have no choice but to at least choose the Highest Quality for Terrain Shaders to display shadows and ambient light to the best advantage as the shadow and other sliders now also have different impacts.



If you play around enough you can get it all working it seems - just to differing visual qualities.



Seems to me I can still get an more than acceptable result and gain some extra speed with this version. The lighting is different but good.



Its growing on me. We even have distance object drawing which is a fantastic improvement.



Overall a big improvement here I think. Lee seems to have done a great job.



If you want to turn off the HUD display you can remove the details from the player start marker and you wont die!



See attached. You can see I now have shadows and the Terrain lighting correctly so it does work if you adjust enough settings. Whoops Me bad.



rolfy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 03:57
For me this is definitely the best release yet, I see a huge increase in FPS on my low end laptop and still to check it out on my better spec m/c. Overall I am very happy with this release...so far
0Alemar0
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 03:58
Nice fps increase for me.You have to tweak the options to have good performance and visuals, but work very well in low spec machines ( with low specs visuals too )but you can find a middle.Thank you Lee.
Uman
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 04:10
I am getting very erratic and juddering or player movement and there is a very prominent erratic drawing of entities where they slowly draw and slowly remove themselves on screen which I think is probably the new Dark imposters misbehaving somewhat. Its more prominent in larger entities as they take ages to draw on screen and then to slowly remove themselves and we have swapped the popping for a similar if different issue. That is of course unless some settings adjustment is possible to overcome this. Perhaps full shader quality for entities?



More testing needed me thinks.



almightyhood
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 04:20
im not seeing a big difference in fps again myself ;(. I think though my machine is to under par for fpsc reloaded tbh. hope santa brings me something good this year lol. however I do like the new amount of buildings supplied with this beta, only so much you can do with a tent, building and some netting lol.. what I find odd with this engine though is the lack of darkness with night scenes so far, its more like a daytime without a light blue sky than a night time dark effect. I wonder if this overall darkness for night time will be improved? something like dead space sort of dark would be nice where a actual flashlight would be of use instead of what it is now. maybe a new slide control for light intensity for night?

have fun stay safe

hood
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Uman
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 04:37
See attached screen objects - tearing or imposters I believe. Not sure wahts going on here?



Despite frames rates to say otherwise the player walking is extremely erratic and slowly juddering forward one step at a time. Seems to be some instability and my guess is its the dark imposters as I am getting other entity screen draw problems with those.
rolfy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 04:43 Edited at: 21st Dec 2013 04:54
Quote: "I am getting very erratic and juddering or player movement and there is a very prominent erratic drawing of entities where they slowly draw and slowly remove themselves on screen which I think is probably the new Dark imposters misbehaving somewhat. Its more prominent in larger entities as they take ages to draw on screen and then to slowly remove themselves and we have swapped the popping for a similar if different issue."
Though I am not seeing this with buildings etc right now, I took a closer look at the LOD swapping.

Recently Lee introduced extra fields for LOD distance, my fault, I requested this as larger entity's weren't changing to highest level since player could not get close enough for it to swap out with the default settings



I have a very large entity I use for testing which swaps out colour when LOD levels change, using this I can plainly see what your talking about, however when I introduce the fields to the .fpe for this entity:



;LOD System

disablebatch = 1

lod1distance = 400

lod2distance = 600



The LOD system works without flaw and is perfect.



So perhaps previously made models now require these fields to work properly.



You could try pasting these fields into the .fpe for the entity (between ;orientation and ;statistics will do)and see if this where the problem lies, it might not be as I say cant tell with default textured entity's on my end as it seems to be working fine. However as I just said it was really off kilter with the first test.



I really cant say whats causing your player juddering as all seems fine on my end.
Uman
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 04:50
Screen re-draw issues. See attached. You can see that a block of ice is being drawn much bigger than any in the level and before your eyes where none exists. These draw and re - draw so slowly you can see clearly them drawing where none exists in such a position as you move backwards and forwards/closer or further away.



My player movement is so slow that the dark imposters seems to be affecting things badly if I am a correct? None of this should occur as my frame rates are now better than before? Something is not right here ans causing some instability and erratic on screen drawing behaviour and player movement.



rolfy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 05:04
I am not sure at what distance imposters should replace entity's, I have attached my test model drop this in and see how it goes for you.



LOD_0 GREEN

LOD_1 RED

LOD_2 BLUE



As you approach/move away from the entity you should have a visual on LOD swapping.
rolfy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 05:15
Sorry uman I gave you the wrong model, use this attached one instead.
Uman
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 05:22 Edited at: 21st Dec 2013 05:25
Hi Rolfy,



Thanks for you assistance :



I have inserted this you provided in the entities .fpe files for the two different ice block entities I am using :



;LOD System

disablebatch = 1

lod1distance = 400

lod2distance = 600



Thats works perfectly as you suggested and now the issue is solved with no visual redraw at all of the entities and stability is returned - my fps being good and somewhat improved to acceptable levels.



I may have to place that code in all entities .fpe files ideally if need be.



Now all I need is some way to make my ice have some transparency



The player movement speed was still much slower than it should be and movement still erratic so I have doubled the player speed and that is now OK too.



Thanks. Hopefully this may help out anyone else finding similar issues.



Time I called it a night now while I am winning eh!



Gone 4.20 am and my bed calleth.



See you later.



Uman
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 05:24
Don't think I need your model as said above I think I am working OK now having used your code.



Thanks again.
rolfy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 05:26 Edited at: 21st Dec 2013 05:30
Glad you sorted it out, nite uman



Oh you might want the first model anyway (not the second, just remember to change the model path in the fpe), put a nice ice texture on it and it will look great in your scene
rolfy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 05:59
Quote: "what I find odd with this engine though is the lack of darkness with night scenes so far, its more like a daytime without a light blue sky than a night time dark effect. I wonder if this overall darkness for night time will be improved?"
If you adjust the surface,fog and ambiance colours in test level and brightness using F5 it is entirely possible to get passable night time scenes



I do notice however that F6 'shadow strength' has gone missing from this version.
Shadow man
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 07:44
Quote: "I do notice however that F6 'shadow strength' has gone missing from this version. "


Shadow strength is set with the shadow control slider in graphic options now.
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almightyhood
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 09:34
@rolfy

yes!! a nice night time effect with ambience set to 8 and some other adjustments very nice thanks a lot and have a merry Christmas and a happy new year!.

have fun stay safe

hood
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The Rev
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 10:41
good news bad news there was an improvement in speed but it makes the models draw as you walk from no model to a model also getting a blue line some times on the terrain One big thing I just noticed that reload has the same problem that fpsc had the bad guy goes throw things when he is shot fpsc use to go throw boxes walls so half in and half out. Thats one thing they got to fix I tried out an old weapon from the ww2 in reload and it worked I just copied it from the gamecore files guns and place them in the gamecore in reload and then copied the x file in the entitybank to reload game bank then took one of the fpe files in relad and change the fpe to match the weapon what don't work yet is the explosion and the distance seems to be short for a hit attached is a screen shot
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Teabone
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 12:06 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2013 03:40
WOW!!! Finally seeing the framerates I've been waiting for! Thanks LEE! Even with the settings maxed out I'm seeing improvements.



Great job, I'm thoroughly impressed!



Now just some feedback:



* Please remove the constant jump sequence that happens when the space button is held. The player should only jump when the space bar is pressed.



* Can still see some holes in the terrain on occasions.



* Enemies walk into water (right into the bottom)



* Water suddenly appears once you look away from it then look back at it.

pianodavy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 12:48
I have a white line framing my original models on the terrain level which were not there on the previous versions. None of the controls seemed to be able to tweek this out. Other than this I see no significant improvements in rendering or movement, although at this stage both would be considered satisfactory. The white line has got to go. I use an XPS 720 Dell with a 3.0 Core2Duo. The GPU is an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 Ti. I'm going back to using the previous version until this can be improved.

All you need is love....so let me have your burger.
Pirate Myke
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 16:48
Thanks Rolfy and Uman. Adding these settings to the FPE files defiantly fixes a lot of problems with objects transition from far to near and smooth's things out.



;LOD System

disablebatch = 1

lod1distance = 400

lod2distance = 600



The LOD system works without flaw and is perfect.



So perhaps previously made models now require these fields to work properly.



They work a lot better if you use this.



Thanks again.

Emrys
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 16:50
Framerate is much improved, nice work Lee



The only issue I've had so far are some of the new building assets keep disappearing in game, not sure why yet, more testing required !



Keep up the great work



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HarryWever
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 17:55
hi rolfy



Thats works perfectly as you suggested.



many Thanks



Gr

Harry Wever
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HarryWever
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 18:20
The only thing i notice is when you crouch near a object the frame rate drops .

For the rest my frame rate is pretty good. with some large objects it stay around the 80. so not bad!!



good job Lee.





And Merry Christmas to all.



Harry Wever
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 20:30
Looking good so far - and it seems Rolfy has provided the solution to my main gripe although I've yet to test it here.



Some of the shader options seem a bit drastic - but might be essential on some systems. This looks like a good start though.



I hope to find time to do some careful performance tests - but immediate impressions are promising which is a good sign.



I haven't noticed a problem (with earlier betas) with night scenes - you just reduce the lighting to an appropriate level. Haven't checked beta4 yet though.



Looks like Xmas is going to be busy - what with new upgrades to FPSC(R) and Malevolence at the same time.





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almightyhood
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 21:01
nope thanks to rolfy's helpfulness im good with the night time darkness feel. im just dim and didn't think or try the suggested ways of doing it, looks great now lol.



I have now been shot through walls and when I killed a guard he fell through the wall and was laying outside the building though,

and grass seems to go through the buildings floor and walls alittle but that's not really a problem for me right now, I just have to be careful about spraying it around and putting buildings down on top of it.



as for performance I don't think lee can really do anything that will show up on my system, so in the new year I will upgrade to a new machine with better newer higher quality gpu.

have fun stay safe

hood
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 21st Dec 2013 23:30
I still have a lot of ideas to improve performance further, including the use of quads during the shadow casting, reflection and light ray rendering, tighter occlusion culling using a CPU multi-core pre-render, More shader variations that can trim super-high techniques for the best combination of visual fidelity and speed, replacing polygon collisions for large structures with a composite-box hierarchy and a bag of passing ideas along the way. The question is now much time the community would like me to spend on this subject



I am aware of the strange 'disappearing reappearing building' issue, and is due to the way I switch from HIGH to LOW LOD static buffers. I can reproduce it easily so a solution is imminent. I have also noticed rather high system memory usage which I also want to kerb dramatically.



I am most shocked at any reports which suggest that setting the Shader Panels for TERRAIN, ENTITIES and GRASS to LOWEST yields no performance improvement. My results are DRAMATIC on my integrated Ultrabooks. If you are truly finding no performance gain, please email me your graphics card model and manufacturer name, along with a screen shot of your Performance Panel read out to lee@thegamecreators.com



I am also curious to be sent any levels (or media) which is misbehaving in the new engine (such as UMAN's strange polygon issue) as there is clearly some reaction with the new static batcher than attempts to accelerate frame rate by reducing draw calls to the graphics hardware.



Overall I am very pleased you're finding BETA 1.004 to your liking, and that you'll have something nice to play with over the festive season. I will continue beavering away at half-mast now until the new year and maybe release a patch if I make any sort of progress (stuffed with mince pies and bourbon, I cannot make any promises but I like to think I would try).



Now I am going to make a nice cup of tea, and boot up Bioshock Infinity which I bought yesterday from Steam for just £6 It's an FPS, so I'm going to call it 'research'. Happy Christmas and try not to eat too many mince pies!

Hogging the awesome since 1999
raymondlee306
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 01:29
I'm having good results here, but I do have a question:



Is there a way yet to change the textures you can paint the terrain yet?



Is there a way to choose a particular plant or plants to draw during terrain paint instead of the stock ones?
Uman
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 02:54
Lee Rolfys Code supplied as Follows fixes both large entities misbehaving and not drawing on screen correctly or appearing very slowly where they dont actually exist and then dissapearing the same way or half drawn so when the camera stops moving say when they stay half drawn in view hanging in mid air until the camera moves and allows them to appear fully and somewhat different varied behaviours other smaller entities such as trees which when imposters as switching I guess have all kinds of varied erratic screen drawing behaviours depending upon what other combination of settings are being manipulated. The exact display and erraticness therefore varies depending on many other settings variables of which their are a lot if you are tweaking them a lot endlessly to find the best options which is not easy due to the number of permutations possible.



Anyway point being Rolfys code as far as I can tell fixes all of the erratic display issues so that should be easy perhaps for you to understand the reasoning behind. I have copied his code to every entity file in use when I come across any misbehaving and that seems to correct any issue.



Heres the code he supplied :



;LOD System

disablebatch = 1

lod1distance = 400

lod2distance = 600



Before inserting the code I had many different entities displaying erratically in many different ways depending upon the particular entity and combinations of other settings. With the code inserted to the .fpe files the entities get fixed.



The main thing I can see that I have not fixed is that this seems to be a workaround. The engine is not happy even though its been given a way out around the problems it had before inserting the code. I can tell because I drive it and I get force feedback on my keyboard and mouse. Like driving a Rolls Royce now its not ticking over smoothly.



As we know when things become unstable which they clearly were with me with screen draw issues being obvious all kinds of strange things happen. One of these was player movement was being badly impared with the player juddering and forward movement jumping. I have had to double the player speed in order to get up a decent walk speed approaching normal movement speed. It is still not as fast as it should be nor smooth and the camera seemingly jumps/skips frequently. Its all related to the same thing and it may be memory being affected related perhaps or simply this version requires the video card perhaps to be much more efficient than previous versions.



No idea really its obviously rather complicated.



No worries any way I am still tweaking, fine tuning and improving the settings my end and Rolfys code has fixed most of any issues so it would seem. I have an acceptable level play so can live with it.



By and large my fps is improved overall having fixed the entity draw issues. I am now getting around an average of 29 - 40 fps varying in my own levels which are quite empty relative to the world large world size. I am adding more content slowly so keep an eye on haw that affects performance.



Have a good Christmas and New Year.



rolfy
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 03:45 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2013 04:54
Lee introduced new LOD fields as I found larger entities unable to swap to highest LOD level, since you would run into them first. Because distance was calculated from, I assume, the models centre pivot. This also made sense for smaller entities which would appear at highest LOD before player was within any distance to benefit from it.

I also discovered in Beta 3 a bug that caused two levels of LOD to display at the same time and sometimes not swapping out at all and he fixed this too.



disablebatch = 1

The only real problem with using this field is that it may be preventing the model using the Imposter System and Static Buffers mentioned by Lee above, therefore defeating the purpose of any performance increase which would be gained from this (I might be completely wrong and it's all ok, the LOD levels are certainly working fine), if it is though,it it appears to be negligible and so long as it works for folks having problems just now till it's all fixed, then it's all good
DVader
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 03:51
Had this unusual issue when trying out a quick test. The terrain suddenly developed big holes, while the game was running. Causing severe corruption on the skybox. Other than that I have had big speed gains.

xplosys
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 03:51
Quote: "I still have a lot of ideas to improve performance further, including the use of quads during the shadow casting, reflection and light ray rendering, tighter occlusion culling using a CPU multi-core pre-render, More shader variations that can trim super-high techniques for the best combination of visual fidelity and speed, replacing polygon collisions for large structures with a composite-box hierarchy and a bag of passing ideas along the way. The question is now much time the community would like me to spend on this subject"




I'm certain there is a portion of this community that would like you to move on to other features, and performance isn't bad right now, but we're only using a very small part of the playing field. What's going to happen to performance when we fill it up?



Brian.

If my post seems rude or stupid, don't be offended. It's just a failed attempt at humor.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 10:06
Quote: " we're only using a very small part of the playing field. What's going to happen to performance when we fill it up?"




The performance is ok even on a full filled map, but you hit the memory limit soon during the AI Obstacles preparations step.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.indiedb.com/games/into-the-dark
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 14:51 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2013 14:55
not sure if this is of any help but I keep randomly crashing because of it.



Bring It On

MadLad Designs
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 15:12
I've had the same error once, not sure why though.

"I find your lack of grammar disturbing..."



Check out the [FPSC Reloaded FAQ]!
DVader
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 18:48
Quote: "The performance is ok even on a full filled map, but you hit the memory limit soon during the AI Obstacles preparations step."


You must have a quicker system than mine then. Although performance is way better, if I use a lot of trees (or anything really) and get creative, my scenes still slow down. Yes, I can lower everything to get it to run a bit better, but even given mt PC's age, I expect better than that. Dead Island for instance runs at full whack looking beautiful no problem. So I know the hardware can do it pretty easily. Now, fair enough I doubt FPSC is going to get to Dead Islands fidelity levels, but it is an old game itself now and things move on. FPSC still needs more performance work to come anywhere close to competing with rival engines. Before anyone says FPSC Reloaded isn't meant to compete with Unreal etc. The realities are if you are hoping to make a game to sell. You WILL be competing against whatever other FPS games are out there in a variety of engines. Can you imagine trying to run Bioshock on FPSC at the min, even the original? Not a chance. Speed is way more important than the game mechanics at the moment. Also remember, once more stuff gets added in, the engine will probably slow even more, so we need greasy speed now!

Lots of people are impatient to get some actual games started, me included. But if the engine is not up to scratch, and running with reasonable visuals, most will not even glance at it. Unless you make a weird oddball title, but not everyone wants to do that.

I'm just glad there is a lot more can be done to increase speed, as I run out of steam with a fairly small scene still. That's with some shaders on highest, but the low quality shaders look so bad I just can't live with em. Transforms the game back to the early nineties lol.

Uman
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 23:34
A lot of the posts hear are stating very legitimate and valid concerns from a maths point of view and the eventual affect on the successful progress of the Product.



Most are stating the obvious for its not difficult for users to be able to see this. Reloaded is not efficient enough at the base core to allow users to develop professional looking games with content of a professional quality. At the moment its swapping slightly better fps for less stability and at the penalty of loss of quality which to get a decent speed for many is wholly below the quality acceptable for any game deployment at any time past or future.



Performance enhancements here are not engine burdened where the engine is returning major performance enhancement by its core efficiency improvements - but user/game player burden. i.e. Remove quality to a level thats way below acceptable if you want to be able to play the game level at all at acceptable game play speeds.



Most of the new settings do help but at the expense of that reasoning at the swapping of one benefit for loss of another is not what is needed. We don't need loss of quality but do need speed and performance enhancement. Or at least we don't need loss of quality to the extent allowed and catered for here which is unacceptable that a given number of users/players may be forced to consider choosing so they can boost game play speeds or even being able to play at all with enough fps to make it viable.





The lower qualities now provided are as someone said well a generation backward. I don't think TGC will want to display many screen shots with those low settings in the Gallery here at the forums so that in and of itself is a fine indicator of where that leaves the product.



Would anyone display my screen shots using the provided low end settings in the Gallery or in any promotion of Reloaded as a modern, professional Game engine. I don't think so TGC. You would say the quality is totally unacceptable for the Gallery or public display of Reloaded promotional items and so it is.



I am not complaining - just talking common sense which every user can appreciate. No one wants to use the low quality settings as it is an answer to nothing other than a user personally gaining some more speed internally. You would not want to make a game and deploy it and or show it to anyone at those qualities would you. The new settings, sliders and controls are no doubt a boon to many - like me even so I can enhance my development with a walk around acceptable speed while making a game, so they are very welcome from that aspect.



To be fair its not quite that bad - yet - I can still walk around in a sparsely populated level, but as users are and have said previously its all low budget now - what happens when the vast array of features to come have to be accommodated and users actually try and make full games that is if the engine will hold up and let them do that.



We don't have AI, dynamic entities, physics or anything much in place that will yet put the engine to a real test. Advanced AI - that may take some accommodating if it ever becomes a reality. Think you might have to give that a miss as it may be daydreaming. You will need it if you want a pro engine but I am not sure anything will quite make that esteemed place in history.



I think aspirations for pro-type quality features and status were always asking a bit much.



Problem here is that someone - users or TGC are going to run out of steam waiting on performance improvements as that's a base core thing that should be well in place early on with the core features settled in and tested ready to accept the forward development. A year on it many pledger/users are wanting to just fill up with features and get game making. TGC too. Its a hard limbo to get stuck in for many at this stage.



That seems to be the way it is.



Can't have both I hear - Performance and Quality? well you can't have a pro-engine then can you. Accepted then.



Of course it depends perhaps on where you set the bar for users and game players. I guess you can plumb to require user and game player system requirements to only those with the top range hardware which is really what we have now to work or play at high/pro quality so for those with lesser budgets and system hardware the quality game/gameplay is a no no.



If that's the only way then again Accepted. If you then rule out many users/players then so be it.



Theres obviously a long way to go before Reloaded is - bad word - complete so to speak. it could be years away. This time next year we may have a different animal - who knows. You can only say where you are when you are there. You can however use some commons sense, guesswork and imagination.



I must thank everyone for their support and hard work. Users, pledgers and TGC and anyone else I forgot.



Everyone is trying very hard. Reloaded is a great product to date as far as it goes. I love it despite any short fall currently. The great thing about it is the product empowers people in a way no other product does and that is just something worth supporting. It gives a lot of people a creative ability in a way no other product does.



I thank Lee, Rick and TGC for all the hard work this past year and look forward to some more updates, improvements and ongoing development.



I am waiting for Christmas 2014 when I can get the next milestone assessment



Happy 2014 Reloaded Game Making everyone!



Lastly I too have had the similar glitch issues shown by others here but they have dissapeared after Rolfys code fix usage which has to be placed in every .fpe entity file or something or other will eventually go haywire.



p.s. I am waiting for that Character Creator.
rolfy
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 00:26 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2013 01:03
It seems the latest Beta dropped some folks hopes a little, for me personally it has raised them immensely.

As one of those with a big mouth who has ranted on and on about performance and quality in Reloaded being of prime concern and not happy with sidetracking on 'features' while the core development should be priority, I am very pleased with the direction it's going in now.





It's very early days in the life of this engine but seeing how TGC are approaching it, with user input being a big part of their ethos in it's creation, I can see how it's going to cause disappointment among users who expect the features they want and the performance they desire.



I too believe this product can exceed all our expectations, given the time.

I believe in Lee giving us what he says on the tin and it's up to us to point out when things go wrong with each Beta, one thing I notice is that he does try to fix whats wrong if and when it's discovered by us. We all need to show a little patience and realise that if we were hiring a coder to develop an engine for us personally we would be seeing the same thing with our ups and downs. Thing is, there are many of us here with differing specs and problems we see, so it's not going to be the case where we get our engine and then create our game which worked fine on our system only to discover it was unplayable on a thousand others.



We, as users are the most valuable tool TGC have at their disposal ,user input is invaluable at time of development and problems can be ironed out so early.



Keep the faith, remember these are Beta's and its got a long way to go, with a lot more ups and downs. Sometimes it's the journey that's more interesting than the arrival.



Merry Christmas
almightyhood
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 02:44
i have spent a portion of my night making a map, was fun working with new buildings and such but when loading this fairly small map I ran out of memory and the engine had to close...

there was no characters in this map, just some animated tree's, (good to see they was not floating up high) less than 20 some 20 odd buildings all linked with bridges (a time consuming task lol) and about the same amount of exploding barrels, couple of other items here and there. testing all that worked fine upto when i added about 50+ chain linked fences around the town, sigh does this happen to any1 else the memory thing making it close the engine??

have fun stay safe

hood
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Uman
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 02:54 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2013 03:08
Memory : Yes it has happened to me after a long session perhaps twice I think in Beta 2 when not enough memory message appeared. What kind of memory I have no idea. Perhaps graphics related or not. Whatever it does not seem to be permanent as closing and restarting Reloaded continuation was then fine. I think I have seen others report that but its obviously an erratic thing that happens perhaps occasionally to some out of the blue.



Beta 4 is an improvement overall I think that's clear to everyone if you look past any glitches that it may have brought which may well, when fixed yield some further improvement. Yes it has a long way to go yet - this time next year one may have a better idea of where its going.
rolfy
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 03:18 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2013 03:51
It is probably the way Reloaded editor now handles the scene in the viewport, as you can now see it using some shader level to display the scene. With shadows etc, and an idle animation for characters.

It displays models (which have it) at the lowest level of detail, so it concerns me a little that when users start to throw their own imported content in there, with no LOD, it will fill up the memory buffer pretty fast. Particularly if you zoom out to view a larger area.



It might be prudent to have a toggle to turn off this display and use a more basic one in future, when users start to throw the kitchen sink into the editor



Would be even more ideal if Reloaded would use proxy's for objects (particularly sprayed trees etc) when memory consumption gets high in the editor.
almightyhood
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 04:58
I see, I will restart the engine and see if I can load my map

thanks. all models used are the basic models that come with the core engine, I have not installed all the other packs and such this time round, just seems pointless as many need stuff done I just don't understand lol, like the thing rolfy found a fix for in this thread for uman lol... lod something or such

anyways thanks again for the tips and info





happy game making

have fun stay safe

hood
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pianodavy
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 13:02
I just found the way to get rid of the white line framing of the objects. Decrease all of the surface coloring - to zero if necessary. Then increase the ambient settings to compensate for the darker tones. Now I have an excellent running FPSCR! I wish I could stay home and play with it but already I'm late for my meetings! I guess the key here is persistent fiddling - I'm starting to feel good about this software!

All you need is love....so let me have your burger.
rolfy
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 18:25 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2013 18:59
PianoDavy, reckon you have debug visuals on, pull this slider down to zero, what your seeing is a visual on AI path finding



Debug Visuals come on at a setting of '1' so it's easy to miss.
Uman
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 18:25
I have posted this at the big report board but repeat it here in case anyone does not read it over there.



Be careful if you are trying to actually create anything of value and of need for future use at the moment and be sure to keep some backups of any important work you are doing : .......................



After getting some more issues with large entities corrupting in display which is well documented now and then correcting that using Rolfys code. Close and restart Reloaded....



I then found that some days of work carefully applying vegetation (grass) where wanted and painting the terrain with paths where needed the hard work has vanished. All veg cover painting and path painting has been removed from the level and no longer exists. A copy prior to this todays work which is quite considerable still has the veg and paths but I don't want to go back to that as I have added a lot of careful additional work today.



I would rather have to redo the veg and paths which is faster if there would be any point but Reloaded being unstable I am not sure there is at this stage in development now.



Just a little heads up to be careful and keep some backups constantly until and if these problems in Beta 4 are sorted and some stability is returned.



I am a little miffed now but I guess its my own fault. I suggest you make many saves and backups constantly if you have anything you care to keep or further develop. Also perhaps its a good idea not to save at all unless you are sure everything is unaffected by any of the current issues or you may end up saving a corrupted level or one with lost content as I have.



Happy Christmas.



almightyhood
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 19:03
well, today I added some grass and pathway and a couple new buildings to my map with some trees, and when I went to save the engine turned off. when I restarted my level save was corrupt and I have lost everything for the last 2 nights lol... time to double up on saves I guess and rotate them perhaps?!

have fun stay safe

hood
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almightyhood
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2013 19:27 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2013 19:29
just fell into the water area and woops what happened lol. im inside the terrain but not and in the water but not, I cant jump out and there is a grid now everywhere above me.









have fun stay safe

hood
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