Product Chat / [LOCKED] The Game Creator Store

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RickV
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 16:08
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Hi,



We are planning on adding in the Game Creator Store to Reloaded soon.



From December 1st we will also be changing the revenue split from 50/50 to 70/30 - so that's 70% revenues will be earned by artists, 30% to TGC.



We believe Reloaded will be a huge hit in time, and so this is a great opportunity for 3D Model artists and media creators.



We will start by adding in the store and then we will be checking the current content with Reloaded to see if it works OK. Media that works will have a special flag ticked to make it available for use in Reloaded.



In time we also plan to showcase the models online. This allows web users to browse the library.



Please give us your feedback on this idea. Are you a Game Creator Store seller or would you like to be? Feedback in this thread please.

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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 16:16
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Sounds great to me ,i'me sure all the 3D Model artists and media creators will be happy with the 70/30 split .



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Dralel
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 19:34
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Sounds like a great idea.

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xplosys
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 19:49
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Quote: "From December 1st we will also be changing the revenue split from 50/50 to 70/30"


Retroactive?

Do you anticipate raising prices to cover that split?

Quote: "In time we also plan to showcase the models online. This allows web users to browse the library."


Any (almost) exposure is good. Artist can get more exposure on content/packs available to multiple engines. A plus for all.



Brian.

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KeithC
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 20:28
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That's a fair split. I would like to see if you intend on keeping the main price-point of packs at the current $20, or if you will be more flexible (depending on the amount of media in each proposed pack)? If you intend on allowing (per EULA) the continued use of media in other engines, the accepted price-point at TGC versus (for example) the Unity Store could still cause issues for some artists. Of course there are other variables to that scenario; such as having media ready to go (per game engine), more users of Reloaded (versus another engine), the marketing strategy you have concerning commercial media for ReLoaded, etc.



If you amend the current (for future media, of course) EULA, to only allow media to be used in FPSC/FPSCR, DBC/DBP, AGK, etc.; then the above would be a mute point. To summarize:



- 70/30 split is fair to all artists.



- EULA should stipulate use of media only in a TGC product/engine (for all future media created and sold).
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J0linar
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 20:44
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Quote: "EULA should stipulate use of media only in a TGC product/engine (for all future media created and sold)."


This stipulation is pointless, The Store itself should be what it is

a Store and not another way to restrict usage of payed models for TGC Products only.



regarding the 70/30

thats even something that would convince myself to sell my media in the store

but then again restricting the usage rights of the buyers is simply idiotic.



If someone wants to make a game with reloaded or Dark Basic then he will and if not

why not let ppl use in another engine at least this way TGC and the Artists get some more $$$.



Thats from a artistic perspective

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KeithC
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 21:15 Edited at: 12th Nov 2013 21:16
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Quote: "This stipulation is pointless, The Store itself should be what it is

a Store and not another way to restrict usage of payed models for TGC Products only."




I disagree. As I tried to point out in this thread; Most media packs in the TGC Store are sold at a standard $20 (with a very few exceptions). You can sell that same pack of media in a competing store (such as unity) for sometimes twice as much, easily. Now that TGC is proposing a 70/30 split, it matches the Unity split to the artist. However; if a customer sees that he/she can get the same media from the same artist for less at the TGC Store, without restriction on use...they most likely will do so, unless they don't want to mess about with possible conversions of said media. That becomes a net loss to the artist.



Quote: "thats even something that would convince myself to sell my media in the store but then again restricting the usage rights of the buyers is simply idiotic."




That's your opinion; although a snarky way to express it. You should check out the Torque store and see some of their media and tools that they have two separate licenses for (Indie and Commercial), with two separate price points. Apparently it's worked for them and their artists/coders for years.



Quote: "If someone wants to make a game with reloaded or Dark Basic then he will and if not why not let ppl use in another engine at least this way TGC and the Artists get some more $$$."




Probably because I don't want to engage in a race to the bottom, where paid for content is worth far less than what it should be. Devaluing the market isn't wise or viable, long-term. Check out places such as Turbosquid to see some results; talk to the artists there.



Quote: "Thats from a artistic perspective"




Everything I said was also from an artist's perspective; joined by artists with media that sells in the TGC store with great frequency.
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J0linar
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 22:26 Edited at: 12th Nov 2013 22:29
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Quote: "TGC Store are sold at a standard $20"


I would say the price tag will just have to be raised

simply because if the ppl expect to get AAA like assets then they will have to pay 40$+

Note: am looking at this from a ModelPack perspective



There are artists that use tools and programs that alone qualify for a higher price tag.



Quote: "Torque store and see some of their media and tools "


The big difference is that the Garagegames store is not just selling the final art

they are actually supplying the buyers with the source files .max and .fbx

with that being said its clear that if The TGC Store wants to step up then it would need todo that aswell (at least in some cases)

for example Character and Weapon props...



i would suggest

adding at least .obj files of the props

and if the artists are comfortable with it then let them add the source files aswell.

At the end as a customer you should have the rights to use the art in other Engines aswell - restricting the Artists to sell their media in the TGC Store only woulde be fine aslong as they supply the source files aswell.



This way at least the customer would get the most of it and lets face it the Store is not just about TGC and Artists - it is mainly about the Customers

and how to make the store attractive enough for them.



It is great to discuss this as it shows plenty of views

and i respect them - what i would like to see is a sign of TGC



The TGC Store could be much more

but that depends on -

*restricting the artists or not



*restricting the media to FPSCR/ DarkBasic .x compatible files only

or supply of source files aswell



*and last but not least it depends on Reloadeds success

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RickV
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 22:48
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Hi,



We would prefer to move away from selling packs as add-ons that are sold standalone. The store should be able to let you bundle what you want together and make your own packs.



We also have plans to make the store more integrated with Reloaded. Imagine people being able to download a model, use it in their game but not actually own it until they have tried it. So there would be some kind of water mark on it until you purchase it. That's more in the future but gives you an idea of where we want to direct Reloaded and the store.

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KeithC
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 22:56
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Good points.



Quote: "restricting the Artists to sell their media in the TGC Store only woulde be fine aslong as they supply the source files aswell."




I never said artists are restricted to sell only on TGC; they can feel free to sell at TGC, Unity, Torque, etc (there's no "SquidGuild" here). I said that anything bought specifically from the TGC store should only be used in TGC products. You'll notice that only a few of the media packs include source formats, others do not (Torque). You are also limited to a total income with each asset's use (though high, it's still there).



If you want to use the assets in another engine, then there should be an additional price tier to select from (ie., another 20%-30%).
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xplosys
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 22:57
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Quote: "We would prefer to move away from selling packs as add-ons that are sold standalone."




OK, but packs will be necessary unless you can somehow force all artists to develop items in the same style that fit together in the same scene. So your concept is to break up packs and sell them as individual items?



Brian.

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rolfy
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 23:59 Edited at: 13th Nov 2013 05:28
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The problem with the store is how stuff would get buried in there, official packs always had a higher profile with an announcement of their release.



I dont see why both cant be done with packs as a deal offered by the artist, I wouldn't want to be trying to sell a bunch of related entity's separately.



It's fair of TGC to offer a better cut to the artist but still shouldn't dictate price, if an artist is asking too much for media then the buyer can vote with their wallet. With the difference in quality between artists you cant expect a pricing tier to apply.





It's a tricky one all the same as media creators for FPSC have always been generous with pricing, as quite simply, they love the ethos of affordable assets and we realise many are young entry level. Still, if we want Reloaded to attract more pro users and artists then it's inevitable that your going to see real price hikes and if some of the artists continue with low prices, such as bond1 and Errant who do real quality work, then pro artists are going to feel they can't compete and may be put off.



I agree there should be different pricing for use in TGC products and an additional fee for use in other engines or media with source files. I keep prices low for users around here I have no intention of offering the same deal elsewhere where other artists charge more, simple





Quote: "restricting the Artists to sell their media in the TGC Store only woulde be fine aslong as they supply the source files aswell"


You have this the wrong way round, if only selling through TGC you sure wont be seeing the source files jncluded. Artists are under no obligation to supply source files in any circumstances.

To get a clue check Turbosquid for TGC characters and see for yourself how even they don't sell cheap for use in other engines.



Quote: "We also have plans to make the store more integrated with Reloaded. Imagine people being able to download a model, use it in their game but not actually own it until they have tried it. So there would be some kind of water mark on it until you purchase it."
Since only the texture would be 'watermarked' how would we prevent folks taking the mesh and texturing it themselves? Particularly since you just provided them with the texture layout watermarked or not. Still, the mesh is the artists IP and wont be free distribution without permission, something I wont be giving personally.



So if it's part of the terms for putting media into the store I am screwed.
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Posted: 13th Nov 2013 04:49 Edited at: 9th Dec 2013 01:35
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I've recently become an assets developer for the TGC Store (even though I've been using FPSC and DarkBasic for many years) and I was a bit discouraged by it at first after realizing the popularity of its usage had dropped. I do not plan to just pump out rapidly tons of models for the sake of making some money. I want to actually produce meaningful, unique, high quality assets of all kinds ranging from static entries to dynamic and characters that would help provide our community with more tools to breach the boundaries of their imagination.



So I'm quite pleased to hear about the store's return, for Reloaded. I've already started making models and content for Reloaded (mostly static). Though that 70/30 percent ratio sure is encouraging to even do better.

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Steohl72
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Posted: 14th Nov 2013 12:46
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I agree that the price on models needs to get raised, at least on the better models. There is a need for harmonize prices with other game engines.

I mean, why sell you models at TGC Store when you get at least the double at another place?



I think TGC will have to think out a stretegy for what they want with TGC Store.



It´s my understanding that TGC wants that the TGC Store shall be a place for all different kind of game engines, not only Reloaded. In that case I think you need too market it much much more. There is no ad for it on the homepage for an example.



The 70/30 split makes sense and is a step in the right direction.



I also agrees with Wolfy - stuff gets burried in the store. I think a new design and tree level would be good. And the search engine does not work 100%

The place needs a facelift
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AeroFiles
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Posted: 15th Nov 2013 03:39
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Much can be done to the store.

But make it so that old models still have a chance to show on the front page in a random section.



And the 70/30 sounds fair.

And if you ask me, models released for FPSCR store should be for FPSCR only, not Unity or similar.



I for one would not like that at all (as a developer of assets)

Also the prices should be higher for good models (compared to what they are in FPSC)



Also a better system for developers to check on their sales account would be nice.

AeroFiles - addon content developer for fps creator (store)
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loopster1616
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Posted: 19th Nov 2013 16:01
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This is exactly what I was wanting to see. I do not know if I ever sent the e-mail to you or Lee or Chris, but I was going to ask the same thing and that is a 70/30 split just like Unity. I felt that "We" as modelers. The real life blood of the whole FPS Creator community. Should be able to get a nice reward for the long hard hours of content design and etc. Even the music. Me personally besides model content have added about 30 music tracks to FPS Creator in the last 2 months or so. And it all is perfect for gaming. I was thinking to myself. Man I sure would love to have these tracks in FPS Reloaded. Now it seems it will happen and I could not be more happier. This is great! Thanks for being cool guys. This will help FPS Reloaded even more and bring more content makers to this ever growing game platform.

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RickV
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Posted: 20th Nov 2013 12:20
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Hi guys,



Thanks for your comments on this subject, plenty for the TGC team to digest and think on. The comments were getting a bit heated and it would work better if we can avoid arguments and conflicts.



The store certainly raises a number of issues which we'll talk about here in our team meetings.



- We want to encourage both hobbyist and pro artists

- Longer term we would like to let you sell source files if you so wish

- The issue with the try before you buy has to be looked into. Maybe some encryption can be used so the files are never exposed to the user until they buy

- Packs are clearly something you all like. Our vision would be that you could create a pack yourself, give it a logo/banner/description and then offer it within a packs area on the store. So they still exist but in a new format and under your control.



Keep commenting!



Cheers,



Rick

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Posted: 24th Nov 2013 21:46
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That'll be great to have the store active in the reload.

can't wait.

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Posted: 25th Nov 2013 14:23
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I have used the TGC Store with my old FPS Creator.

So allowing web users to browse the library. yes! But can you have search by content type! not just by artists. So an example, I'm looking for a set-piece or scenery like a car or van to put in to my world. or so you can search for weapons only or indoor furniture only. of a set time period, -Medieval only. or by price tag.



Quote: "we will be checking the current content with Reloaded to see if it works OK"
So is their a app for that? Like, can I get a copy for my own use?

B creative & have Fun.
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Posted: 30th Nov 2013 02:26
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To all the people knocking the new 70/30 split. I think it is totally fair. First off it is a privilege to be able to sell your content in the engine period. Second The Game Creators as a company. Have to have money generating from FPSC Reloaded to help keep the development going. It cost a lot of money to pay programmers. Nothing is FREE these days. Thank god they are allowing you to do this!

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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Nov 2013 07:33 Edited at: 30th Nov 2013 08:16
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I don't see anyone disagreeing the 70/30 split is fair



Artists are as entitled to earn a living just as TGC are, so no, it's not a privilege and besides development is being funded by users around here already, some of them the very artists who you speak of above, I don't think I will be seeing a 70/30 split from sales of Reloaded. Just setting the record straight a little here



Quote: "Thank god they are allowing you to do this!"
You say that as if TGC do it out of the kindness of their hearts, reality is they earn revenue from it, so does the Artist.Thing is the Artist does all the work in this case, it's a business deal, pure and simple......fair enough...



I will be honest, I don't want to see the same quality requirements as the old store where it was posted so long as it met specs, I don't want to see things buried under a pile of free low quality media which made it cause it has the right thumbnail.
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BlackFox
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Posted: 1st Dec 2013 08:16
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Quote: "From December 1st we will also be changing the revenue split from 50/50 to 70/30 - so that's 70% revenues will be earned by artists, 30% to TGC."




This seems ideal to entice new and budding artists that want to get into developing media for the engine. However...



Quote: " I would like to see if you intend on keeping the main price-point of packs at the current $20, or if you will be more flexible (depending on the amount of media in each proposed pack)?"




This has yet to be addressed. I'll add my thoughts below.



Quote: "- Packs are clearly something you all like. Our vision would be that you could create a pack yourself, give it a logo/banner/description and then offer it within a packs area on the store. So they still exist but in a new format and under your control."




Using your comment above plus the question KeithC raised, let me ask this. An artist spends a large amount of time developing a huge pack. They want to have it become an official pack. It does, and out of a $20 price tag they make two sales, which means all that time they spent is not covered. In essence, doing this for a living in one location will end up costing the artist more in the long run. Are you planning to come up with some sort of "pricing" guide for packs? A 70/30 split would be good for standard packs, but what about those that make huge packs (and I know of one person off the top of my head that has made a huge pack). If the price is going to remain at the magical $20 mark, then the split change won't really amount to much. In other words, your split may be good for the general packs produced, but the artists that go beyond and create big packs should be given some sort of consideration for either a slightly higher price or a bigger split (ex: 75/25 or 80/20). After all, without the artists making the packs for us developers, we'd either have no developments or need 5 years + just to do everything- level design, media creation, texturing, etc.



I realize that the majority of your purchasers may not want to spend large amounts of money on media packs and you as a company need to make your portion, but artists are a vital cog in the cycle and should be given something to entice them to not only feel proud of their work but keep them around. I have no issue paying for a media pack from any of the artists we've purchased from before (they know who they are) at the price they want. Their work is valuable, as is their time.



There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
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almightyhood
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Posted: 1st Dec 2013 11:33
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any1 else having trouble finding anything on the new store?, says 5447 items in store but I have yet to find a single 1, im logged into the engine and using the store which im also logged into and still not 1 item to buy or look at?. is it just me or

have fun stay safe

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granada
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Posted: 1st Dec 2013 12:55
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Quote: "any1 else having trouble finding anything on the new store?, says 5447 items in store but I have yet to find a single 1, im logged into the engine and using the store which im also logged into and still not 1 item to buy or look at?. is it just me or"


I think you will only be able to see the ones that are compatable with reloaded.



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RickV
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Posted: 1st Dec 2013 15:20
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Hi,



Yes the only object checked off an approved is the Short Refinery Pipes object. We'll be contacting all artists and asking them to check their media with FPSCR moving forward. This is just a first quick step in getting the store setup for Reloaded.



Rick

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HarryWever
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Posted: 1st Dec 2013 16:08
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i also made some stuff for reloaded. If a want to become a seller,artist how does that work?



Gr

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Steohl72
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2013 09:23
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HarryWever, you can send a mail to: store@thegamecreators.com
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2013 23:58
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Surely you can just change the filter to see the other objects as I did?



I've just tried to use my points to buy a few things from the store via Reloaded and it says I have 0 points. Am I missing something?





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RickV
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Posted: 4th Dec 2013 11:30
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Hi, just to let you all know that the Store now pays artists 70% on all sales.



Green Gandalf - can you email me about your problem? I just tried and the system worked fine for me inside Reloaded.



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 4th Dec 2013 15:07
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Quote: "Green Gandalf - can you email me about your problem?"




Will do - but I'm going to try a reboot here first since a few things are behaving oddly (ever since I upgraded to IE11 a few days ago ).





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Posted: 5th Dec 2013 19:00
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@rolfy Yes, it is a privilege to be able to put your content into their system. They did not have to do this if they did not want to. This was a way to encourage people to want to share their work with the project. The developer is getting more for their
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KeithC
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Posted: 5th Dec 2013 23:49
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Quote: "Yes, it is a privilege to be able to put your content into their system. They did not have to do this if they did not want to."




I think you have it a bit backwards. Without fresh/new content coming in on a consistant basis, this project would stagnate. Barring people making their own content, you'd start seeing the same content used in all screenshots...which wouldn't be much of a selling point, to those without the means to make their own content. Be careful not to denegrate the artist community here, lest they look elsewhere.
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rolfy
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 00:25 Edited at: 6th Dec 2013 00:28
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Quote: "Be careful not to denegrate the artist community here, lest they look elsewhere. "


Yes, we are very sensitive, touchy and emotional types, it's what makes us Artists



Here's how it really works around here, TGC make product, they are a business, Artists create content we are a business. The basis for this symbiotic relationship between us is that we share the same ethos of providing affordable product for those on a low budget and we share the same goals for Reloaded. You wont find this with other game creators such as Unity etc.



My talents and knowledge. not to mention investments in time and money are no less than Lee or Ricks or TGC as individuals or as a company.



If TGC were to adopt the attitude that I was simply privileged or lucky to sell my work for use in their engine and I should be grateful or go elsewhere, I know what decision would be forthcoming You should be grateful they dont.



I appreciate your enthusiasm for TGC as a company and Reloaded as a product and in fact share it, but not at the cost of my own worth.
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Teabone
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Posted: 7th Dec 2013 10:24
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When will we be able to see the upload item option? (for sellers)

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granada
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Posted: 7th Dec 2013 14:16
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Quote: " You wont find this with other game creators such as Unity etc."


How true that is ,you guys make some cool work that even i can afford.



Dave

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loopster1616
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Posted: 7th Dec 2013 17:10
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@rolfy Well to me I just feel lucky to at least have this opportunity to add what I make into the engine. I mean there are really only a handful of real good engines out there. Much less ones that allow you to do this. This one I believe has potential to
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loopster1616
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Posted: 7th Dec 2013 18:43
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By the way...How are people adding their game rig specs on their forum post?

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granada
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Posted: 7th Dec 2013 18:57
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Quote: "By the way...How are people adding their game rig specs on their forum post?"


I just went into my frofile and put mine in my signature .



Dave

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MXS
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Posted: 7th Dec 2013 23:35
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i get the reason why TGC want to do away with the model packs. It all makes since now. once you put these up in the store for sell this pack will be easy to download and install for both fpsc and reload. instead of the way it was for fpsc and fpscx10 where they had to change the installers to install into one file direct path. the problem with that is also if you wanted to install the models for both fpsc and fpscx10 it would in up uninstalling from one of the paths file and then you could install it in the other. so would have to copy and paste the model pack items form one fpsc file path to the other fpsc file path.

using the store is way more better then model packs installers. Hey Rick V you change the amount of times we are allow to download our assets as well. there is only one real problem about the store and that is the gore horror and blood assets. years ago bond zombies got taken down for mature contents reasons. I don't know how TGC would have to pay to be allow to have such assets in the store but this will be a deal breaker to do store only sells. unity turbo squid and other 3d model stores allow such assets in their store. so this have to change or this means artist will have to sell their mature asset in another store.

more than what meets the eye



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loopster1616
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Posted: 8th Dec 2013 03:01
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It seems some of you speak like your thinking of this as a regular income. Which it will never be that. Your not going to get rich or make a living off it. Really not a way to base your opinion on The Game Creators Store and selling your in game content. It's just a way to make some extra cash. I mean I would love to make a living off it, but we all know that is not possible. God forbid it to turn into another X10 and get dropped like 4 or 5 years down the road. That I hope never happens. But it's out of our control.

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Posted: 8th Dec 2013 03:55
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I think that the 70/30 is a good thing, 1.Because it can be cheaper then any other creator in return will bring more people to the site to get models just as good. 2.The artist makes money for his/her time an creations at 70% an TGC will make some money t 30% for letting it on there site which is far. 3. they could have let it at a 50/50 an make just as much as the artist dose just by letting it on there site to sell an the artist make's the same amount for doing all the modeling scripting an animating, so TGC knows what goes into modeling an scripting an animating so they know what kind of time he/she has put into the game an models by the detail in them. so my opinion stands that the 70/30 was a good thing to do on TGC part
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rolfy
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Posted: 8th Dec 2013 05:29 Edited at: 8th Dec 2013 06:48
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Quote: "It seems some of you speak like your thinking of this as a regular income. Which it will never be that.

Really not a way to base your opinion on The Game Creators Store and selling your in game content."
You never give up do ya? and your verging on borderline trolling. I have no idea what your basing your comments upon or what your experience is of selling media. Selling content through TGC is not the only source of income for Artists and they usually sell elsewhere too, but it doesn't make the slightest difference whether they manage to solely make a living off of it or not, I don't believe you are in the position to say anything with any certainty. It's business and ten cents or a thousand dollars it still has the same relevance when added to your business income.



I think the point has been made, you reckon Artists are deluded for believing they will make a decent return for their work, even though you have no idea what they make from it....not much incentive for Artists to put media into the store then is there? Or perhaps we should do it for the warm fuzzy feeling it gives us to be involved with this project as you seem to think.



You keep swinging from one opinion to another with the idea that TGC need content in the store to pay programmers (which costs big money in your own words) to saying individuals who sell content wont make much, it cant be both ways (it's neither in fact), otherwise the 'pennies' TGC make from the store won't be enough to feed the office goldfish.



Your starting to sway me into thinking it's not worth my while, it might save me some disappointment if I listen and learn



In fact it might be best to sell my work for the price it's worth and anyone wanting to purchase can visit my site and that way I can ensure I 'make a living'. You come across as believing it's not a 'proper job' and we do it for fun.



Maybe if you ever create a commercial worthy game you will change the attitude and realise that my time isn't worth any less than the plumber who cleared your drain and I have to pay bills just like anyone else. My methods and how I go about earning this income is really not anyone's business but mine and I don't need lectured.



Just to add...I have had a store account for a few years already, this means I know what I am talking about and am entitled to my opinion on it
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RickV
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Posted: 8th Dec 2013 11:19
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Guys can we calm down a bit?



Seems out X10 exploits still come back to haunt us...



We're still early in the life of Reloaded. My mission from now and through January is to focus heavily on a revamp for the store. This work is being done without us having to distract Lee.



Reloaded is our #1 product, we have big, big plans for it. This should create a much bigger user base, which in turn will result in bigger sales for artists.



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xplosys
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Posted: 8th Dec 2013 17:14
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I've learned to stop talking "business" altogether on this forum, as I've often found myself (unwittingly) arguing with a pre-teen member.



I'm happy to see more attention being given to the store. I'd like to hear more about plans to make it openly available (outside FPSC:R) and what formats would be accepted. Would it accept media for FPSC:R only, or something more along the lines of TurboSquid?



Brian.

If my post seems rude or stupid, don't be offended. It's just a failed attempt at humor.
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srealist
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Posted: 8th Dec 2013 20:44 Edited at: 8th Dec 2013 20:45
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Please, Rolfy, do not allow your feelings to be swayed by any one poster here. For every negative post on here, there are at least a dozen who feel the opposite even if they don't post. Those of us who have put a lot of time into FPSC know we could never have done anything if it were not for the high quality artists who dedicate their time and energy to creating great products. I've without a doubt spend far more money on art assets than I have software (i.e. I purchased every model pack and much of the content on the game store). Why? Because they are amazingly good deals and I would've gotten nowhere in FPSC without the artists' hard work. So, it is money well spent and I'd be willing to pay twice the amount or more, honestly, on the higher quality models.



Anyway, as others have said, the engine is only as useful as the content that goes in it and we are very fortunate to have artists here that are willing to produce and sell great work to us.
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rolfy
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Posted: 8th Dec 2013 21:22 Edited at: 9th Dec 2013 00:23
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I just want to see a more positive approach to it, some comments are unnecessarily negative and are based on nothing anyone actually said, but assumptions. It was bad enough already. The original store was always being downed for one reason or another. My own experience with it was not exactly great, I wont go into detail but will say that it was simpler for me to sell my stuff on the forums individually, I had more sales and it went straight into my account, so I stopped putting it in there.



I want to see it working this time and attracting good quality artists, there are a few around already, but it cant just be for forum members like it seemed to be before. I want this to benefit TGC, Users and Artists alike.



Any comments about putting my stuff elsewhere for now is merely sarcasm, I will of course give it a shot and see how it goes. I really think that TGC are making an effort to improve the store and though I come across as Mr Angry it's just my nature.
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DennisW
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 01:50
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I think that Rick concentrating on the store is good news. Maybe it will point out what model packs can be used in what. I have basically stopped buying model packs. It’s just because I don’t know what I will be able to use. There are at least 6 model packs I would like to buy but don’t know if I can use them in reload or if FPSC is going to be dropped like a HOT potato like x10. I do want to get the pack by rolfy model pack 70. There are many others also. I just wonder how many others are thinking this same way. It’s important to get answers on this. It not only cuts back on the profits for Artists but to TGC as will. I know things will come in time. As far as Artists making a living from TGC more power to um. You got to have beer /tea/coffee money.

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rolfy
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 02:22 Edited at: 9th Dec 2013 08:44
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As for model pack 70 I have been looking at getting these characters into Reloaded but without any info on the LOD setup and no idea of how the current character shader (which I assume is a bone weighted shader) will handle the additional bones for the wings, not to mention that character behaviour and animations seem to be hard coded (I could possibly work around this by changing anim frames to suit), I can't move forward with it



I guess it will all come together eventually because these characters look superb in Reloaded (at least so far)



Edit*Got these into Reloaded with their own animations, just need to figure a way to run the anims at the right times (I suppose thats what the animation text list is for) I presume the character animations will be scriptable in future. The problem still remains with the additional bone count for the winged versions.



I know it can be changed in the shader:



float4x4 boneMatrix[60] : BoneMatrixPalette;



Changing the float to 4x3 and increasing the boneMatrix is the way to go but it requires changes further along in the code and I am sadly out of my depth with HLSL so not sure where to make these changes

It will get there a bit at a time, probably in time for the store opening proper
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srealist
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 02:22
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I based a rather significant, government funded project on x10 so I understand the concern. The real nail in the coffin was when TGC stopped selling the product - prior to that there was a small but strong community continuing to support it.



I've seen just about every argument on both sides of the equation. Here is what I believe - x10 was released to work with Vista, Vista turned out to be a bomb, the community refused to move over to Vista while at the same time were not willing to use a product that was not backwards compatible. Combine this with the fact that DirectX10 was quickly dropped in favor of DX11 while DX9 continued to be the primary game development platform for all serious game engines. With the core community refusing to make the leap to X10 and Microsoft in a bind over an operating system that no one wanted, TGC was forced to make a tough call.



Personally, I would've liked to have seen TGC make FPSCx10 freely available and hand it over to the community that, despite all of the above, continued to actively support it. However, it makes sense that they did not as you really don't want one of your past products becoming your own competitor - not to mention...free. That would be very, very bad business.



There's absolutely no way this happens with Reloaded. They are fully vested in this product and, from everything I can see, they have big plans and intend to make this focus of their company. I think it is a good think that there will be no backward compatibility at this point as it is really necessary to get the whole community on a single platform. They understand better than any of us all of this.



Anyway...sorry for all the text. It's just my opinion and if I am way off, I'd love to hear how and where from Rick, Lee, or anyone else.
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Teabone
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Posted: 9th Dec 2013 03:51 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2013 08:55
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I was a bit sad to see FPSC (classic) become completely buried. With its domain replaced with a product that is early in its BETA. I was half way into a couple projects with FPSC classic but I can see visitations and interest has dropped. As members of the community move from interests in FPSC Classic created games to FPSC Reloaded.



I'm assuming this means I have to wait close to a year till I can start making games again for people in the community to be at the least interested in. Bit depressing considering how long I've been here using FPSC with hopes of it getting better and better. I also went to X10 and had to go back to X9 when it got canceled. Its like we keep restarting each time. Least we can keep our concepts; though I don't know how long I can keep hope. I'd just love to be 100% assured that this product will be able to do EVERYTHING FPSCx9 could do.



At this point I am unsure how our own media will work with Reloaded (animation calls, scripting, shaders, etc). I have bought every model pack out there but I personally like creating my own media too and I'd love to be able to share the stuff I make with the community.



In terms of the store is there any mention as to when we can actually upload anything to it?

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